826 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

remydat wrote...

As for the Catalyst, the Geth are primitive AI. They are not the AI the Reapers were designed to stop. We havent seen that AI yet because the harvest is intended to occur before that AI is ever created.

I believe thw Catalyst is wrong but the Geth Quarian peace is really not a good reason for concluding it was wrong. When the galaxy survives 5 or 10k years past the harvest and more advanced AI are created then we can see how they react when inevitably some organic fears and tries to destroy them.

So we're back to these two:

[remydat]

Ah so cool for you to speculate but when the flaw in your speculation is pointed out that is the best you can do?

In its mind humans, asari, quarians, salarians, turians, elcor, volus, etc. were all spared of extinction for millions of years. They got to live for millions of years before being subject to the harvest. If a super ai emerged in a cycle during the time of the dinosaurs and stumbled upon earth after they had killed their creators, they may conclude based on an understanding of organic evolution that eventually those apes will become sentient. So why not just poison the planet and destroy all organic life before they can evovle and become a problem?  Once they have decided organics are a threat then any planet they discover as they explore the galaxy for resources that has organic life can be purged of organic life.

Modifié par remydat, 17 mai 2013 - 06:55 .

[S.A.K]

Khelish wrote...

Mind if I join in mate?

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

[Khelish]

Past few pages:

[What a Succulent Ass]

remydat wrote...

That is a stellar counter argument.

Your initial argument is oyinbo nonsense. NDNs and other indigenous peoples are neither extinct nor disappeared from their native lands. Nor are their claims to them any less valid. Do not use them nor their past and present suffering, or the very real effects of imperialism as rhetorical devices for your f*ckass debate. Stick to the video game and do not try to compare the history of fictional f*cking robots to the injustice meted out to victims of colonialism.

Lets look at who owned all the land on Earth 300 years ago and start giving that sh*t back.

Oh, we can talk about that sh*t, but this thread will be filled with tears and locked within ten minutes.

If you can't make a convincing argument on source material alone, you don't have an argument. Stop.

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Morlath wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Um....How so? You going to start ignoring what we see in the game now? Because Legion proved pretty conclusively, with the ease he manhandled the Galaxy's Greatest Hero, that the geth don't need guns to be dangerous as hell.

Because a Geth's arm is not designed to be used as its weapon. If you want to take this argument then any species with limbs and/or teeth should be feared just because these could be used to attack another.

...LOL. THAT'S your excuse?
The geth were built stronger to lift heavy loads of supplies and such, to better compliment being a work-force, and with stronger bodies, could handle more powerfull weapons, which would normally break someone's arm if used by an organic. Think of the Rachni - every single one is made with the physical capabilaty to attack people.
A geth on the loose is like a mini powerloader running rampant. Not something you want to risk your entire population on when there are milllions of geth.

I find it amusing how people seem to assume that the Geth haven't changed at all over the hundreds of years. That just because they are made to be competent in combat scenarios now, that they were always that way.

The geth were BUILT to lift heavy loads, survive in conditions the quarians couldn't, and, based on the existance of Widow sniper rifles in the Morning War, were made to use weapons the quarians couldn't handle. I love how you seem to assume that a race built for warefare wasn't able to carry out the function it was made for until 300 years later.

I find it amusing that you think they would have used the same models as butlers as they would on the battlefield.

And likewise, I find it amusing that you completely forgot that (A) the geth did not have ANY other unit besides the standard model in the Morning War, and ( you forgot were Legion spicifcally shows you that the past geth and present-day baseline geth are NO DIFFERENT from each-other.

Source?

Also, you realise the Quarians looked the same too? And we know they only started wearing those suits afterwards.

First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 mai 2013 - 09:00 .

[silverexile17s]

Random Jerkface wrote...

remydat wrote...

That is a stellar counter argument.

Your initial argument is oyinbo nonsense. NDNs and other indigenous peoples are neither extinct nor disappeared from their native lands. Nor are their claims to them any less valid. Do not use them nor their past and present suffering, or the very real effects of imperialism as rhetorical devices for your f*ckass debate. Stick to the video game and do not try to compare the history of fictional f*cking robots to the injustice meted out to victims of colonialism.

Lets look at who owned all the land on Earth 300 years ago and start giving that sh*t back.

Oh, we can talk about that sh*t, but this thread will be filled with tears and locked within ten minutes.

If you can't make a convincing argument on source material alone, you don't have an argument. Stop.

Finally, someone gets it. Thank you.
Although, I doubt he will listen to you. If he's willing to try and drag accidental pregnancy & abortion, and Hitler & and the Jews, and Hiroshima, he likely won't listen to you, despite repeated attempts to sway him from such sensitive and hurtful material.
But I agree 100% - don't bring things like that into a fictional debate.

[silverexile17s]

Morlath wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

I'm pointing out how YOU are being CONTRIDICTED by Legion.
The Codex says that ALL geth were made to be "tools of labor and war" buy the quarians - in the very first paragraph. Legion himself says that all geth were built with the exact same specifications and capabilities as each-other. Also, you do realise that ALL geth in the MW were bipeds, right? There WEREN'T any of the qudrapeds or hoppers or juggernaughtes. Those evolved during their isolation.

Look at Legion at the peek on Rannoch - Lifts Shepard up with his bare hands and chokes the Commander out.
Look at geth duribility - Dropping to the ground from hights of at least 50 feet.
Look at the geth in the Multiplayer - Able to emmit a powerful shield purge that INCENERATES anybody caught in it. And the geth Juggernaught in MP, which can drain electrical energy.

ALL huminoid geth IS by itself a walking weapon. They can kill bare-handed just as easily as they can with weapons.

And so are Krogan.

There is a very big difference between being built (biology or tech) to withstand a lot of punishment and having high basic strength compared to other species and being actually created for war with weapons inbuilt.

A humanoid Geth CAN be a weapon by itself against someone. An unarmed Krogan CAN be a weapon against someone. An unarmed human CAN be a weapon against another, weaker being that themself.

Your simplistic view seems to be missing this very important point.

Again, that's my POINT EXACTALLY - they ARE like the krogan, and for that matter the rachni and yagh, in that regard, in that they are dangerous without needing firearms.  Except unlike the krogan, they AREN'T created with the capasity to think about what they do. Like a gun, they are supposed to do the task they were built for. Nothing else.

ONCE AGAIN, you are ignoring both the Codex (Tools of Labor and WAR), and Legion's own words (All geth were built the same). You realy going to act like BOTH are either wrong or lying?
The geth were SPICIFICALLY BUILT to be war tools. Soldiers that could arm up at the slightest notice, with the superiour physical capabilaties to do tasks too dangerous for the quarians to routinely handle. They're enhanced strength could be deadly if turned on an organic, as Legion shows you at the cliff on Rannoch. They also don't feel pain like organics, which makes them all the more deadly.

A human and a krogan are BORN with the capabilaty to think and decide. The geth were NOT. The geth were basically INATTIMATE OBJECTS in terms of being alive. Humans and krogan don't have kenetic barriers implanted in their flesh. They also can't link their minds to other members of their species to gain higher intelligence. They were BORN as mindless weapons and tools from the get-go. Humans and krogan were NOT.

YOUR "simplistic", one-sided view seems to be missing THAT very important point.

[silverexile17s]

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Morlath wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I find it amusing how people seem to assume that the Geth haven't changed at all over the hundreds of years. That just because they are made to be competent in combat scenarios now, that they were always that way.

It's easier to justify killing the Geth if you believe they've never changed from the new-born species that drove the Quarians off Rannoch using extreme measures.

So that means you agree that the recordings Legion showed you in the geth server WERE complete bull, since they clearly show no difference between modern geth and past geth?

I'm done for now. Come back in 3 hours.

You might want to listen to what Shepard is asking during that sequence. Legion flat out says the data is in a form Shep would be comfortable with.

It's why the quarians are wearing masks.

...did you EVER read the Codex? You know, the one that says that the standard geth soldier is NO DIFFERENT then the ones from 300 years ago?:pinched::pinched::lol::lol:

I thought not.

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Morlath wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Um....How so? You going to start ignoring what we see in the game now? Because Legion proved pretty conclusively, with the ease he manhandled the Galaxy's Greatest Hero, that the geth don't need guns to be dangerous as hell.

Because a Geth's arm is not designed to be used as its weapon. If you want to take this argument then any species with limbs and/or teeth should be feared just because these could be used to attack another.

...LOL. THAT'S your excuse?
The geth were built stronger to lift heavy loads of supplies and such, to better compliment being a work-force, and with stronger bodies, could handle more powerfull weapons, which would normally break someone's arm if used by an organic. Think of the Rachni - every single one is made with the physical capabilaty to attack people.
A geth on the loose is like a mini powerloader running rampant. Not something you want to risk your entire population on when there are milllions of geth.

I find it amusing how people seem to assume that the Geth haven't changed at all over the hundreds of years. That just because they are made to be competent in combat scenarios now, that they were always that way.

The geth were BUILT to lift heavy loads, survive in conditions the quarians couldn't, and, based on the existance of Widow sniper rifles in the Morning War, were made to use weapons the quarians couldn't handle. I love how you seem to assume that a race built for warefare wasn't able to carry out the function it was made for until 300 years later.

I find it amusing that you think they would have used the same models as butlers as they would on the battlefield.

And likewise, I find it amusing that you completely forgot that (A) the geth did not have ANY other unit besides the standard model in the Morning War, and ( you forgot were Legion spicifcally shows you that the past geth and present-day baseline geth are NO DIFFERENT from each-other.

Source?

Also, you realise the Quarians looked the same too? And we know they only started wearing those suits afterwards.

First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

[silverexile17s]

Morlath wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1. And AGAIN, they had a beed on the Normandy long before Tali even opened communications. By right, a ship bearing Cerberus colors should be shot dead on sight. They DIDN'T. They gave it a chance.

2. AGAIN, you are confussed.
I'm saying the geth have NEVER gone against their stated beliefs until it was convient for them. They threw out all their old morals when it was convient for them to. It was easier then simply adapting on their own. They chastize you for doing it with Cerberus and the Collector base, then do it themselves seeimingly without any moral quaral whatsoever.

1 - Good for the Quarians.

2 - Again, you're simplifying everything to suit your view. The original Geth are very specific in their views:

They want to reach their future on their own.
They believe all species has the right to reach its future in its own way.
They have a live-and-let-live policy with organics. You don't try to mess with them, they won't mess with you.

When the Quarians attack and destroy the sphere it destroys their one big hope for their future. This changes the situation to where they have to rethink their opinions at the threat of being exterminated.

2 - AGAIN, completely invalidaded by what they do in the Rannoch War.

Point #1 is false, because they turn around and take the Reaper Upgrades, instead of continuing on their own.
Point #2 is False, because, AGAIN, they use Reaper Tech to get there in the end, NOT their own path.
Point #3 is false, because they  let the Heretics leave with Sovergein, and did nothing to disavow the Heretics actions or make any attempt what-so-ever to show other organics that they were peaceful in any way. They basically let them think they were monsters. If you kill everyone that knocks on your door, are you going to be surprised when they assume you are impossible to reason with and barge in with guns blazing?

Also, since Shepard is able to convince Gerrel to stand down, with the help of Koris & Tali (and presumibly even Xen, since she doesn't want the geth destroyed), I  don't think the Reaper Code was an absolute necessity. Also, the Megastructure was not a solid shell. It was a Dyson Swarm, made of thousands of sattlites arranged around the Sun, and it WASN'T completely destoryed. Half-destroyed, from the sound of the discription of the "Geth Debris Field."

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...


First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

I say this because the Codex on Geth Hoppers in ME1 says that the baseline geth soldier is a match for the original historical record of the Morning War geth. It says that most of the newer models of geth (Juggernaught, Hopper, Armature) were not in the hsitorical records. Meaning that the standard model (Trooper, Sniper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper) DO match their ancestroal selves.
THAT is proof - the baseline geth chassis is the SAME as the one from the Morning War.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 mai 2013 - 09:21 .

[silverexile17s]

Morlath wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You might want to listen to what Shepard is asking during that sequence. Legion flat out says the data is in a form Shep would be comfortable with.

It's why the quarians are wearing masks.

Silver isn't listening to anything that's being said in this thread, why should s/he listen to anything in the game that contradicts his/her views?

You mean the view in which the CODEX spicifically states that the standard geth tropper chassis MATCHES the one from the historical record?
(Source: ME1 - Secondary Entries - Non-Council Races - Geth: Hoppers)

So, sorry, but ONCE AGAIN, you are the one with views that contridict In-Game information, not me.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 mai 2013 - 09:23 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

silverexile17s wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Morlath wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I find it amusing how people seem to assume that the Geth haven't changed at all over the hundreds of years. That just because they are made to be competent in combat scenarios now, that they were always that way.

It's easier to justify killing the Geth if you believe they've never changed from the new-born species that drove the Quarians off Rannoch using extreme measures.

So that means you agree that the recordings Legion showed you in the geth server WERE complete bull, since they clearly show no difference between modern geth and past geth?

I'm done for now. Come back in 3 hours.

You might want to listen to what Shepard is asking during that sequence. Legion flat out says the data is in a form Shep would be comfortable with.

It's why the quarians are wearing masks.

...did you EVER read the Codex? You know, the one that says that the standard geth soldier is NO DIFFERENT then the ones from 300 years ago?:pinched::pinched::lol::lol:

I thought not.

Most comfortable with? Yeah, I remember that. Metagaming Julia understood artistic laziness. <_< Role playing Julia thought, "Hmmm... Legion feeding me line of crap. This consensus history = Geth lies. Why Legion not want me 2 see what Quarians look like?"

[silverexile17s]

Morlath wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

So that means you agree that the recordings Legion showed you in the geth server WERE complete bull, since they clearly show no difference between modern geth and past geth?

I'm done for now. Come back in 3 hours.

So your essential argument is because the Geth didn't change their physical forms that it means their programing and belief systems never changed.

Does this count for all species? Once a person reaches adulthood does this mean that they are never allowed to change even if they did something wrong in their past? "Well you're still physically the same person so there's no difference between that you and this one!"

Well, since the CODEX states that the baseline geth chassis is a MATCH for the historical record of the one in the Morning War, what do you think? (ME1 - Codex - Secondary Entries - Non-Council Races - Geth: Hoppers).
Also, from what Legion shows you in that recording, the geth did have a value for living beings that were not shooting at them - something completely contridicted by their actions in the Morning War, where 99% of the quarian race died.

Also, look at the other races, why don't you?
Atheyta makes it quite clear the asari have that exact same mindset in regards to their culture. The turians military code is quite inflexible. Krogan have lived in bloodlust for thousands of years. The geth in particular show an unwillingness to open up to anyone. The quarians refuse to believe the geth could be innocent after everything that's happened. The Council flaunted their power and statius while doing nothing constructive.
I mean, think about it - HOW many of these races's choices and changes are directly attributed to Shepard's actions? It certenly doesn't look like these people were going to change on their own anytime soon, does it?
You completely missed the point - AGAIN. You can disagree with how people look at things, but at least do so by understanding WHY they have that mindset. It's understandible for the quarians to think the geth haven't changed, because the geth don't have real individuals until the creation of Legion. It's understandable for the geth to distrust the quarians, given how they would have, as Legion puts it, "understandable hate" to them for forcing them off Rannoch. It;s understandable why people would fear the warmongering krogan, or the imperilistic turians. You may not agree with it, but making an assumption on someone based on their culture and collective past actions isn't all that uncommon, nor hard to understand.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

ONCE AGAIN, you are confussed. She said it would have made more sence for the quarians to try and brainwash them, rather then steamroll them. She never said anything about the morals.
You her prosecutor "or something?" You were the one that tried accusing people of being wrong to try and change someone's fundimental views, yet that's what you are trying to do here. The Geth aren't the same deifinition of alive as us.
And speaking of that, I haven't seen you even TRY to ask her. How about you DO that instead of letting her come to you? After all, that approach of "let them come to us" didn't work for the geth, did it? When you do try, "let me know."

Ask her what?  Shotgun as already admitted she does not believe the Geth are alive but are just machines just like Xen.  She has admitted she would agree with controlling them just like Xen.  She has admitted she is prejudiced.  So not sure what you want me to ask her.  I honestly don't care that she believes, I am just amused by your insisting she didn't mean something when she has already stated she did.  I think she can defend herself.

But AGAIN, I don't see her advocating that enslaving them is MORALLY sound. Saying something is just a machine is one thing, but in case you FAILED to see (and you obviously did), she did not say it was morally sound. Just that it made logical sense to do, since it would have netted the quarians the most. She agrees that it's a LOGICALLY sound move. ONCE AGAIN, you FAIL to provide anything where she says it's morally sound. I'm amused by how you keep dancing around the issue without ever confronting it. Also, since YOU haven't even ASKED her, how would you know?
So, AGAIN, when you work up the courage to ask her the DIFFERENCE between morally sound and logically sound, "Let me know." Because I'm pretty sure that Spock from Star Trek would tell you there IS a diffinitive difference between what is morally sound and what is logically sound.

[silverexile17s]

Morlath wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Look at the Krogan in case you sabotaged the cure with Wrex alive. You just doomed them to extinction- the Reapers could certainly save them. But do they ally with the Reapers? No, even the most stupid Krogan realizes that an alliance with the Reapers will only get them killed.

Except there's no way that the Reapers would consider saving the Krogan unless it was a Soveriegn type situation rather than a full on war.

Legion states that the Reaprers came to the Geth initially not the other way around. It's possible that the alliance in ME3 between the Reapers and Geth wouldn't have happened if that offer hadn't already been on the table for the Geth to consider.

So, the difference between the geth and the krogan is.... what? The Reapers could have apporached the krogan as easily. What was the problem?

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...


First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

I say this because the Codex on Geth Hoppers in ME1 says that the baseline geth soldier is a match for the original historical record of the Morning War geth. It says that most of the newer models of geth (Juggernaught, Hopper, Armature) were not in the hsitorical records. Meaning that the standard model (Trooper, Sniper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper) DO match their ancestroal selves.
THAT is proof - the baseline geth chassis is the SAME as the one from the Morning War.

No, it doesn't. It says there's no record of the Hopper model, but nothing about the baseline geth soldier being "a match for the original historical record of the Morning War Geth"

So where's the proof again?

[remydat]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Your initial argument is oyinbo nonsense. NDNs and other indigenous peoples are neither extinct nor disappeared from their native lands. Nor are their claims to them any less valid. Do not use them nor their past and present suffering, or the very real effects of imperialism as rhetorical devices for your f*ckass debate. Stick to the video game and do not try to compare the history of fictional f*cking robots to the injustice meted out to victims of colonialism.

Oh, we can talk about that sh*t, but this thread will be filled with tears and locked within ten minutes.

If you can't make a convincing argument on source material alone, you don't have an argument. Stop.

If you don't want to talk about it then don't.  That is your choice.  I am free to talk about whatever I want period.  As one of those victims of colonialism, when I see arguments that no one in the real world would ever really use or support being used on the basis that oh well it is a fictional character then I will point it out.  No one in the real world gives a sh*t about my people's 300 year old claims so the fact they come on here trumpeting the 300 year old claims of a fictional race rings completely hollow to me.  It is being said precisely because it is fictional which means it is not really an in-universe argument.

If your argument could never be made in real life then don't bring it up to me.  Most of these threads are discussing matters from an in-universe perspective so your falling back on it's fiction simply makes no sense.  Once you choose to engage in a debate from an in-universe perspective then there is an assumption that the characters and situations are in some way comparable to real life behavior and emotions.

You can't really have it both ways.  If you want to criticize a character and say their decisions don't make sense from an in-universe perspective then you open up yourself to the rebuttal of but it is entirely consistent with how real people behave.  That is the price of trying to make an in-universe argument.  If you don't want to pay that price then just say that you hate the story and keep it moving.

Modifié par remydat, 17 mai 2013 - 10:35 .

[KingZayd]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Morlath wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I find it amusing how people seem to assume that the Geth haven't changed at all over the hundreds of years. That just because they are made to be competent in combat scenarios now, that they were always that way.

It's easier to justify killing the Geth if you believe they've never changed from the new-born species that drove the Quarians off Rannoch using extreme measures.

So that means you agree that the recordings Legion showed you in the geth server WERE complete bull, since they clearly show no difference between modern geth and past geth?

I'm done for now. Come back in 3 hours.

You might want to listen to what Shepard is asking during that sequence. Legion flat out says the data is in a form Shep would be comfortable with.

It's why the quarians are wearing masks.

...did you EVER read the Codex? You know, the one that says that the standard geth soldier is NO DIFFERENT then the ones from 300 years ago?:pinched::pinched::lol::lol:

I thought not.

Most comfortable with? Yeah, I remember that. Metagaming Julia understood artistic laziness. <_< Role playing Julia thought, "Hmmm... Legion feeding me line of crap. This consensus history = Geth lies. Why Legion not want me 2 see what Quarians look like?"

Legion's fiendish plan foiled by sex with Tali?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Is a loaded gun suddenly not dangerous, just because it hasn't been fired yet? I'm pretty sure a loaded gun is dangerous no matter what- regardless of weather or not it's killed someone yet. That's pretty basic common sense.

"Let's see" - an entire population of machines that can endure more tramua, can survive in environments you can't, and can snap your neck like a twig at a moments notice, and they suddenly are acting outside of control and becoming possibly unstable. Just one can butcher your entire family, and there are millions of them on every streat corner and in every home. If even one loses it, it's bad. If ALL of them lose it, it's a bloodbath.
Do you just NOT have any emotinal concern for your family? They can  kill you bare-handed with a single flick of the wrist. You honestly are going to try and spout some BS that this ISN'T something to be afraid of? When they are EVERYWHERE? Including, as @Julia pointed out, intergrated into the military as well, and all of them are in perfect positions to destroy their infrasturcture piecemeal, since the geth are ingrained in nearly every aspect of quarian life?

Something is wrong with your interpertation. Scoffing at the idea that an army of guns isn't going to cause damage is asinine. They all have the capabilaty to kill people without any trouble whatsoever. See how Shepard got blindsided by Legion? THAT'S what the quarians were afraid the geth would do if they rebelled.

If a loaded gun is left alone it isn't actually dangerous.  I have a loaded gun right now at my home.  It is not dangerous until I decide to pick it up or f**k with it in some way.  Otherwise it will just sit there doing nothing.  I have emotional concern for my family which is why I won't be f**king stupid and provoke the machines that are on every street corner. 

Quarian - Oh hey guys, there is a Geth on every corner and they can butcher your entire family.  What ever shall we do?

Quarain 2 - I know.  Let's try and kill them right where our kids live because if we fail what could possibly go wrong?  It's not like they Geth are on every corner and can butcher your entire family.

Geth - This is not going to end well for them is it?

I have no problem with someone being a afraid.  I have a problem because people who are afraid do stupid things and there is nothing more stupid than trying to kill the Geth who are on every corner and can butcher your entire family when they haven't done anything to you.  You basically endanger your family by ensuring that if you fail which considering they are on every corner and can butcher your entire family is highly possible then you just provoked them for absolutely no gain.

Does YOUR gun move on it's own and turn it's own safety off? It your gun capable of screwing with it's own functions? Don't you think THAT'S something dangerous to have near your family, or on every street corner?  ONCE AGAIN, you completely miss the point. It's a loaded gun that can decide on it's OWN wheather or not the safety is in, or if it wants to shoot, or who. You REALLY think that's something safe to have an entire army of? And AGAIN, a gun doesn't NEED to be provoked to act in accordance with the reason it was BUILT. They stand the high risk of going off on their OWN, WITHOUT provication, After all, they reached sentiance WITHOUT provication. And AGAIN, you ignore the fact that the Council will just come in and provoke them anyway. You not doing anything would have changed ABSOLUTLY NOTHING. How about you THINK about that?

 A geth is, by it's very nature, a walking, loaded gun. Now, all of a sudden, it's getting the power to turn off it's safeties, and decide who it does and doesn't want to kill. And there are millions of these in every house. Anyone that ignores this is gambling the lives of their families. Your own actions say the exact OPPOSATE about you having any value for your family. Or at least, not as much as the potentally unstable shotgun that can mess with it's own safeties.

Also, AGAIN, dead wrong. Once again, you try to paint everything as being a fault of quarian prejudice, when last I checked, it wasn't prejudice to fear a loaded gun. Espceally when said gun can decide when and where to turn off safeties and who it want's to shoot.

Here is the CORRECT version:
Quarian 1 - Our weapons of war on every street are at risk of going lose and becoming poetntally berserk. Millions of innocents will die if that happens.
Quarian 2 - We can't just ignore this - that would be the same as putting our families and loved one's lives on a coin toss. I CARE too much about my family to risk them for an an unstable killing machine.
Quarian 3 - Negotiation isn't much of an option - after all, what would completely self-suficant machines want from us? We'd be nothing of value to them.
Quarian 2 - I'm NOT going to risk my family for a killing machine.

Do you have ANY form of comprehension? You obviously DO have a problem with people being afraid, since you cannot seem to grasp that a gun that can walk around, turn off it's safeties, and decide who it want's to kill, when it want's to kill, being in EVERY HOUSE, and on EVERY STREET, is something that most people would ****** themselves at. Watch the move "I, Robot" with Will Smith to get a sense of the scenerio the quarians were terrified of.
If having a problem with "stupid things" is true, how exactally do you justify the morals of betting your brother and family on a coin toss? ONCE AGAIN, a loaded gun that hasn't shot someone is no less a threat. When said gun get's the power to switch off safeties and decide how and when to kill, it's even MORE of a threat, and once again, is so without having killed anyone before.
HERE are the facts - the geth are walking weapons. They are everywhere. They now have the power to decide who and when to kill. They have no directives to maintain them. They are basically uncontroable missiles, with no user control on where, when, or why they detonate. You REALLY want to peddle BS and say that's NOT something to be scared off? That it ISN'T something that cound endanger your family?
How callous.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 18 mai 2013 - 06:50 .

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...


First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

I say this because the Codex on Geth Hoppers in ME1 says that the baseline geth soldier is a match for the original historical record of the Morning War geth. It says that most of the newer models of geth (Juggernaught, Hopper, Armature) were not in the hsitorical records. Meaning that the standard model (Trooper, Sniper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper) DO match their ancestroal selves.
THAT is proof - the baseline geth chassis is the SAME as the one from the Morning War.

No, it doesn't. It says there's no record of the Hopper model, but nothing about the baseline geth soldier being "a match for the original historical record of the Morning War Geth"

So where's the proof again?

AGAIN, dead wrong. The entry says that there is no match to the Hoppers in any historical records. Ergo, the current models ARE in the records. They state that the Hoppers are the ONLY models that don't seem to have diffinitive MW counterparts. Alongside the Armature.

So, THERE is my proof - AGAIN.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 mai 2013 - 10:36 .