826 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Does YOUR gun move on it's own and turn it's own safety off? It your gun capable of screwing with it's own functions? Don't you think THAT'S something dangerous to have near your family, or on every street corner?  ONCE AGAIN, you completely miss the point. It's a loaded gun that can decide on it's OWN wheather or not the safety is in, or if it wants to shoot, or who. You REALLY think that's something safe to have an entire army of? And AGAIN, a gun doesn't NEED to be provoked to act in accordance with the reason it was BUILT. They stand the high risk of going off on their OWN, WITHOUT provication, After all, they reached sentiance WITHOUT provication. And AGAIN, you ignore the fact that the Council come in and provoke them anyway. You not doing anything would have changed ABO****LY NOTHING. How about you THINK about that?

 A geth is, by it's very nature, a walking, loaded gun. Now, all of a sudden, it's getting the power to turn off it's safeties, and decide who it does and doesn't want to kill. And there are millions of these in every house. Anyone that ignores this is gambling the lives of their families. Your own actions say the exact OPPOSATE about you having any value for your family. Or at least, not as much as the potentally unstable shotgun that can mess with it's own safeties.

Also, AGAIN, dead wrong. Once again, you try to paint everything as being a fault of quarian prejudice, when last I checked, it wasn't prejudice to fear a loaded gun. Espceally when said gun can decide when and where to turn off safeties and who it want's to shoot.

Here is the CORRECT version:
Quarian 1 - Our weapons of war on every street are at risk of going lose and becoming poetntally berserk. Millions of innocents will die if that happens.
Quarian 2 - We can't just ignore this - that would be the same as putting our families and loved one's lives on a coin toss. I CARE too much about my family to risk them for an an unstable killing machine.
Quarian 3 - Negotiation isn't much of an option - after all, what would completely self-suficant machines want from us? We'd be nothing of value to them.
Quarian 2 - I'm NOT going to risk my family for a killing machine.

Do you have ANY form of comprehension? You obviously DO have a problem with people being afraid, since you cannot seem to grasp that a gun that can walk around, turn off it's safeties, and decide who it want's to kill, when it want's to kill, being in EVERY HOUSE, and on EVERY STREET, is something that most people would ****** themselves at. Watch the move "I, Robot" with Will Smith to get a sense of the scenerio the quarians were terrified of.
If having a problem with "stupid things" is true, how exactally do you justify the morals of betting your brother and family on a coin toss? ONCE AGAIN, a loaded gun that hasn't shot someone is no less a threat. When said gun get's the power to switch off safeties and decide how and when to kill, it's even MORE of a threat, and once again, is so without having killed anyone before.
HERE are the facts - the geth are walking weapons. They are everywhere. They now have the power to decide who and when to kill. They have no directives to maintain them. They are basically uncontroable missiles, with no user control on where, when, or why they detonate. You REALLY want to peddle BS and say that's NOT something to be scared off? That it ISN'T something that cound endanger your family?
How callous.

Before they were attacked, show me were the Geth removed their own safety.  You are creating a false analogy. The Geth made no harmful moves against the Quarians before being attacked.  None.

And I asked a simple question.  What evidence did the Quarians have that they could WIN? Provoking a walking weapon when you have no assurances you can win is stupid.  

Here is the facts Silver.  Their chosen course of action failed miserably.  I repeat miserably.  Billions of people lost their lives.  I don't know what would have happened if they tried talking to the Geth.  But here is what I know.  I know with 100% certainty that trying to kill them resulted in billions dead.  I know talking to them has a probabilty of success between 0 and 100%.  The former is 100% fact.  Cannot be changed.  The latter is an unknown with varying degrees of success.

It is insanity to continue to defend the thing we know with 100% certainty failed while at the same time criticizing the option that we don't know whether it would succeed or not.  This is especially true when the Geth appeared to have no problem living in peace with the Quarians as the peace on Rannoch proves.

A sane person after seeing a decision result in billions dead would say to themselves perhaps there was another way.  A Quarians supporter instead hunkers down and because they can't admit the Quarian decision to provoke millions of walking weapons was strategically stupid keeps trying to defend the indefensible. 

Um... they disobyed direct orders? They didn't power down when asked? AKA - They refused to engage their safties. Remember THAT? It was in the Codex. Hell, it was even in those Geth Server Recordings. You SURE you played trhough the game? Cause it looks like you missed alot.
Also, ONCE AGAIN, I ask you - isn't a gun, by itself in it's own regard, dangerous? A gun with no safeties, even more so? A gun that moves on it's own and can shoot at it's own discression, even MORE so? Assuming a gun is always a danger, even when idle, is COMMON SENSE for God's sake. A gun is ALWAYS dangerous, regardless of wheather or not it has or hasn't shot somebody yet.

Also, the "evidence" was that  the geth hadn't yet displayed the intelligence to coordinate an orginized rebellion. The geth were made to take all their orders from the quarians. But now, they were refusing shutdowns. They believed that as the geth grew smarter, they would gain the power to orginize a true rebellion. So it was assumed that they could be taken out before they became smart enough to formulate orginized rebellion and resistance. One going berserk would be bad. Dozens going berserk would be a bloodbath. But dozens working in a coordinated battle plan... devestating. They decided to take them out before they could have a chance to strike first.
To put it bluntly, the battle paln was basically: sucker punch them and then wail on them before they recover.

And HERE are the REST of the facts - basically, that the OTHER choices were not any better either. If not this choice, it was either risking everything on a coin toss, or waiting for the Council to come in, blunder into the same thing and start a war ANYWAY. So it's either a quarian-instagated war, a Council-instagated war, or risking everyone's lives on the mental stabilaty of an army of walking weapons that have no physical need for them. WHICH of these options look like a win? Sorry to break it to you, but the harsh reality is that there ar times when there ISN'T another way. Thinking there always is, or that it's just someone's stupidaty, is nieve idealism.
Council-instagated war = billions dead in careless Council cross-fire. Council Martial Law imposed on all quarians.
Do nothing = risk everyone in your entire race on the coin toss that the war machines that have no emotions won't follow their intended purpose and wage war, and on the machines that have no physical need for any of them what-so-ever.
Quarian-instagated war = wipe out the threat now, and have a chance to forget this mess ever happened, saving your race, your family, and keeping the Council away from you.
Out of ALL the three ways this could have gone, the last one had the highest chance of not screwing the quarians over. How about you THINK on that. If the one that had the least amount of risk led to the Morning War, what do you think would have happened with the OTHER two risks if they bottomed out? ONCE AGAIN, you look from the perspective of an OUTSIDER. NOT as someone that is in that situation.  The perspective of someone that DOESN'T know any of this - about the Morning War, or about the geth. Basically what people thought of them in ME1. Honestly, you act like the quarians KNEW the geth could coordinate a resistance? Half the point of why the quarians lost so hard was because they DIDN'T expect the geth to be that advanced yet. Something you AGAIN neglect to remember. To the quarians, NITHER was known. So AGAIN, don't bring in hindsight to this. Because it's NOT a "100% known fact" if it HAS NOT HAPPENED YET. PLEASE try to comprehend a bit. This is a timeframe were the war has NOT happened yet. It's kinda hard to justify the war not being reasonable, when all your reasons come from HINDSIGHT, and not from what was happening then and there.

And AGAIN: Loaded gun = threat, REGARDLESS of having been used before.
Loaded gun that can disable it's safeties, move around, and decide who to shoot at it's own discresson = public safety threat to entire race.
It's not rocket science.

ONCE AGAIN, you are speaking out of HINDSIGHT. AGAIN, this is BEFORE ANYTHING WAS FACT. Must I remind you of the "nothing is set in stone?" The multiple pathways of the Mass Effect games more then proves that ABSOLUTLY NOTHING is solid fact until AFTER it has happened. Before that - it's anyone's call. A fact you seem to MISS. How about you find something to disprove it using the viewpoint of someone that DOESN'T know the future?

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Um.... Thats the ENTIRE REASON YOU WERE POSTING BEFORE. Just a few posts ago, you said that she was in complete agreement with Xen's morals. Now, you do a complete 180 and say the point YOU brought up doesn't matter?

And AGAIN, she agrees with the logic of Xen's views because they make actual sense. But in truth, she prefers the Peace option. She advocated the LOGIC such a tactic would make in using against the geth - I did NOT see an endorsement.

YOU were the one that brought "morally sound" into this argeuement. LOOK BACK AT THE LAST 6 PAGES. She agrees with the LOGICAL PREMISE of Xen's actions. PERIOD. I did NOT hear her say it the be-all ideal solution. PERIOD.

Then find a post where I said it Silver.  I said she shared Xen's views and advocated the same things she did.  Those views being that the Geth are not alive and that they should be controlled/enslaved.  I don't want your continued rambling.  Find a post that supports your opinion.  According to you there are 6 pages worth of it so it shouldn't be hard.

Here I will help you out.  Here is one of my first exchanges back on page 15.  Now find where I said anything about morally sound or where Shotgun even denied this at all.  She has been responding to me for pages and has even admitted she is prejudiced.  Hell in this post back on page 15, I even predict you will continue to ignore the fact that she admitted to believing what Xen believed ie the Geth are not alive.  You have become so predictable it is laughable.

Don't you find it telling that the entire time you been running on about this, Shotgun hasn't actually come on here and claimed you are correct even though she has been reading and responding to this thread the whole time?

remydat wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I consider the Geth to be machines: i.e. not alive. What she was advocating should have been one of the options at Rannoch. It would have been an interesting twist to the story.

But you went all Godwin on me on the last page.

And the game makes it perfectly clear that they are alive.  Your refusal to accept that is no less prejudiced than any other form of prejudice.  Of course, I don't really care because this is just a fictional story but it is what it is.  I see no reason to pretend it is not prejudice when it clearly meets the definition of the word.

I mean honestly, what do you want me to call it?  

And I just find it amusing Silver keeps trying to tell me you don't share Xen's views when you clearly do.  Of course, Silver being Silver, he will probably just go ramble on about something else and say I don't understand anything despite you confirming what was already clear from your previous posts.

Page 17 - You claimed that she endorse Xen's morals. You claimed her morals as a counter to what I said, saying that she supported it, trying to counter what I said about her respecting Xen's skills and logcial, methodical aproach to problems.
Also, AGAIN, dead wrong. She stated that enslaving the geth made more sence for the quarians to use as a war plan. And yet, she advocates the Peace option just as much. Also, the tangent you went on seems to be just as much "rambling." Hypocritical as always, aren't you?

Also, let me point something out to YOU.
(A) She DIDN'T state ANYTHING about the morals. Just the logic behind it.
( She noted YOU were prejudiced too - which you conviently left out, I might add.
© AGAIN, I remind you that logical actions and moral actions are distinctly different. She is NOT bringing morals into her support of Xen. She said it makes sense, but NOTHING about morals.

And likewise, have you noticed that she hasn't said squat to YOU about it? You use double standards and edited posts so often - THAT'S the laughable thing here. Especally the headcannon you use, as well as the insensitive topics you bring up, if her nitation about YOU "going all Godwin" on her is any indication.

Also, NO, the game does NOT make it "perfectly clear" in the beginning with the previous games. Hell, even Legion says to NOT use our definition of "alive" on them during the Heretic Station mission.

So please, get off your high horse and stop calling the kettle black.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 18 mai 2013 - 07:45 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Um... NO YOU AREN'T.
This is a fictional debate. You don't HAVE any right to drag other real-life cultures and their struggles, OR real-life sensitive topics, historical or otherwise, into said fictional debate. It's callous, insensitive, and downright insulting to many. Not tio mention it shows that you can't make an arguement based on In-Game information. To drag something like the Native-Americans, or Httler & the Jews, or Accidental pregnancies & abortion into this, is just downright insulting, as it shows you have ZERO respect for either the feelings of people, or the topic itself.
Also, don't you think the fact that EVEYONE is decrying you for it CONTRIDICTS the "They don't give a sh*t" Ideal?

If you don't think people can h have it both ways, stop TRYING to have it both ways with these real-life events.

Who is everyone?  The only people complaining are Quarian supporters who don't like the fact that I point out their arguments don't work in a real life.  And the "they don't give a sh*t" ideal was in reference to if you made this same argument in real life. 

In real life no one gives a sh*t about 300 year old land claims.  If you walked up to someone and told them your great great great great great grand daddy used to live there and you are there to claim that land back, they would laugh at you.  If you continued to trespass on their property, the police would be called.  If you pulled out a gun, they would shoot your a** and the cops would call it self defense.

The Quarians attacked.  They lost and and in the process lost their home.  Those people died a long time ago.  The Quarians that remain have no claim to Rannoch as they have never lived there period.  Never.  Even in the ME universe, the Council has not recognized their claim because they specifically had them sign a non-aggression pact to not provoke the Geth.  The official position is that the Far Rim and the PV is Geth space.  The only reason anyone other than the Quarians tolerate this sh*t is because of the Reapers.  Otherwise as Shep says, they would have been sanctioned period for violating the Treaty they signed.

@Shotgun Julia, @CrhonoDragon, @Steelcan, @DenyonSlayer, @ Cyrax86, @Kelish,@Random Jerkface, about a half dozen others that noted how insenstive it is to try and bring Godwin's Law into the debate. Also, last I checked, @Optimistic X noted how insenstive it was, and he/she was a geth supporter.
And the arguements you brought up ARE being made in real life - are are sensitive topics. And here you are, throwing them out with no respect whatsoever to the topic, or the people they have affected.

Also, last I checked, the Native Americans do. As do half a dozen other factions across the world. How about you ask people, and let them tell you first hand how much of a Bullsh*t statement that is. Even NOW, people are still hotly debating the morals about native american land rights, and it's debated in the senate SEVERAL TIMES, including in the past few years.
And again, you forget, when said land is CRUCIAL TO YOUR SURVIVAL AS A SPECIES, And is being held by an ILLEGAL faction that is on EVERYONE'S "Galactic Enemy" list, it's NOT going to get much contesting comments. Especally when the geth don't NEED a world, and accoding to Legion, mostly live in space stations. You are telling me that if someone went to reclaim their STOLEN HOME, they would meet resistance from the law?
Suurrrre.<_<

They attacked walking guns. ILLEGAL walking guns, which had become a public safety hazard. Which they would have all been punished for accidentally creating. It's NOT a winable situation - It;s about which option has the least chance of screwing you and your entire family over.
It is their ANCESTORAL HOMEWORLD. It IS their clame.
And by THAT logic, that would mean that, "by might and right," Humans no longer have rights to Earth because the Reapers drove them out "fair and square." You going to tell me that losing your homewold means you have no right to where you originated? You are saying that if someone took YOUR home, that your kids have no right to it?
What one-sided, double-standardized Bull.
And AGAIN, I remind you this treaty was already viloated by SAREN, and rendered completely null and void when the Council and Alliance delcared open war on the geth. And because it's now known that Sovergien was in fact a Reaper, the geth were at the time of the Reaper War listed as Reaper Allies. So, I'm pretty sure that treaty is complete Bull by this point. Sorry dude.
And besides, there's a treaty that states messing with the genophage is punishable via "death by spacing" but that doesn't stop the turians from curing it.
And since the quarians aren't PART of the Citadel conventions, the Treaty of Farixan does NOT legally apply to the quarians, and thus they are NOT punishible by law, for arming their ships, OR attacking the geth.

[Morlath]

silverexile17s wrote...

Again, that's my POINT EXACTALLY - they ARE like the krogan, and for that matter the rachni and yagh, in that regard, in that they are dangerous without needing firearms.  Except unlike the krogan, they AREN'T created with the capasity to think about what they do. Like a gun, they are supposed to do the task they were built for. Nothing else.

Originally? No, the Geth were created as very basic VIs.

The thing you seem to be either ignoring or failing to grasp is that through Quarian tinkering they became a sentient species.

ONCE AGAIN, you are ignoring both the Codex (Tools of Labor and WAR), and Legion's own words (All geth were built the same). You realy going to act like BOTH are either wrong or lying?

Neither. You're using a simplistic idea - machine body, designed to be multi-purpose - to ignore the fact each Geth unit was still primary a farmer/factory worker/soldier. It makes no sense for farming units to carry weapons so then they were just farming units with the capacity to be war units if needed.

A human and a krogan are BORN with the capabilaty to think and decide. The geth were NOT. The geth were basically INATTIMATE OBJECTS in terms of being alive. Humans and krogan don't have kenetic barriers implanted in their flesh. They also can't link their minds to other members of their species to gain higher intelligence. They were BORN as mindless weapons and tools from the get-go. Humans and krogan were NOT.

YOUR "simplistic", one-sided view seems to be missing THAT very important point.

Humans and Krogan are taught morals as they grow up, they're taught right from wrong and when to use their strength and when to not. Soldiers are taught the right time for using their training and when to not.

The Geth were created with the skills required but not moral framework. The Quarians didn't give them any 3 Laws of Robotics not even when they were pushing the boundaries of AI programing.

The Geth have had to decide their own moral outlook on life through experience.

Edit:
Actually, forget it Silver.

Your entire argument for the Morning War is that the Geth were built as tools for labour and war, have machine bodies with superior strength and so need to be killed just in case they turn bad. If anyone argues anything, all you keep pointing out is "but they were designed to be used in war!" which has got nothing to do with it.

So consider me out of this thread when it comes to you screaming about that fact.

Modifié par Morlath, 18 mai 2013 - 08:38 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Exactly, Silver. As far as the galaxy is concerned, Rannoch and the entire Rim is being held by a bunch of goddamned terrorist machines, and if it wasn't for the reapers, and if the Council had a sure fire way of dealing with the threat without getting their nose bloodied, they'd do it without blinking an eye. That's the bottom line.

As far as the Council goes there is ONE faction of Geth, and that's the faction that attacked the Citadel, and it's the same faction that's on Rannoch. They know no differently. Yet they left the Alliance with cleanup duty. Did the Turians do any? No. The Asari? No. They just licked their wounds from the Battle of the Citadel, even though the Alliance took a beating there with the smallest fleet in the galaxy, and the Normandy took out Sovereign.

So they leave the Quarians hung out to dry, and blame them for the whole thing. Well the Quarians have paid for it for 300 years. And like you said, Silver, as far as the Council goes, that treaty is dead, but suit-wetters like Val'Koris and traitors like Tali'Zorah will stand by it. The Geth have attacked. The only reason the Council hasn't done anything was they didn't want to risk war with the Terminus Systems.

So in this case, the Quarians finally had the upper hand due to Rael'Zorah's research being duplicated or completed by Daro'Xen and they could retake their home world. If the weapon is that effective do it. It's about time.

The Geth while being defeated show no inclination to surrender. They do not know the meaning of the word. Surrender to their creators whom they butchered and slaughtered to near extinction 300 years ago? Or surrender to the reapers who will help them finish the job before the reapers give them true unity inside a reaper shell, which is something only a machine can understand and desire? That's why they accepted the offer. They're not interested in peace until the reaper is dead and it's peace or extinction. But they've got to have that Reaper Code first.

You know what? I'm through playing games with them, the Geth, Geth VI, and Legion. If I don't need the war assets, frell them.

Gerrel presses the attack for one reason. To take back the home world. The Geth without the reaper signal were nothing anymore. Now was their chance. They had no choice. Only a fool would have hesitated. "Cry 'Havoc!' And let slip the dogs of war!"

If Shepard allowed Legion or Geth VI to upload that code without making peace, Shepard is an ass and I hope the reapers get him.

[KiwiQuiche]

*Reads the last couple of pages and certain peoples posts*

Modifié par KiwiQuiche, 18 mai 2013 - 11:10 .

[remydat]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No. It's quite obvious the admirals voted for war. Duh?!

But Tali. Tali thought about warning the Geth that they were going to attack? Is she frelling nuts? It's a damned good thing she didn't. Tali would be a traitor. She's a worse suit-wetter than Koris. And communicating with the enemy without discussing it with the rest of the Admiralty AFTER the attack? That's treason. OMG! What the hell was she doing? Tali would have been executed.

No wonder she wanted to talk about this in private with Shepard. She's afraid she'll be found out and she has to tell someone.

Let alone not informing the Admiralty she was in peace discussions with one of the Geth before the attack. That was bad enough especially if something could have been worked out. She withheld information. She's an Admiral (in name only), but still. But no, she's too afraid.

But this indicates the reaper was already there and made the offer for the Geth to join them prior to the attack.

Bottom line here is I am pro-Quarian. You are pro-Geth. You are never going to convince me that I am wrong. All of your "the treaty this" "the treaty that". Negotiate. Peace. Isn't going to convince me because you're metagaming. We're taking our home world back, and that's the end of it.

Tali specifically says she was hoping to try negotiation but was outvoted 3-2.  She specifically says Koris was the only one who believed it would work.  The vote here was for negotiation.  I am pretty sure that the vote for war was actually 4-1 because in another conversation Tali notes that while she objected to war she ended up agreeing to it because she wanted to show solidarity with the rest of the Admirals.  She then specifically says Koris is the only one who stuck to his guns and voted against War.

And not it does not indicate that at all.  Shep asks Tali AND SINCE THE ATTACK as can be seen at 9:47 of the vid.  Tali then says Legion said the Geth were having trouble reaching consensus.  This means that since the attack the Reaper made them an offer.  Before the megastructure was hit, the Geth could not reach consesnsus on whether to accept that offer.  After the megastructure was hit, the decided to ally with the Reapers and Legion cut off communication because the rest of the Geth forced him to become the signal booster and thus he no longer had access to communicate with her.

That is the timeline this conversation establishes.  Tali and Legion were in communication up until the megastructure was hit.  And no one is suggesting you not be pro Quarian.  You made statements that the vid contradict so I pointed it out.

Also as far as the galaxy is concerned attacking the Geth is against the law.  You can't cherry pick when you want to use the galaxy to defend the Quarians.  On one hand you say as far as the galaxy is concerned the Geth are terrorists but on the other hand you ignore that the galaxy has said it is illegal to attack those terrorists in their space.

Modifié par remydat, 18 mai 2013 - 04:48 .

[remydat]

Silver,

Let me take your various diatribes with quick points.

1.  Shep specifically chastises the Quarians that they choose to attack at a time that the Council could not sanction them.  There is no evidence the Council would support the war and a Council Spectre flat out disagrees.

2.  I asked for a direct quote by me.  A quote.  The word morals appears 3 times on page 17.  It is said all three times by you.  At no point on page 17 do I utter the word morals.  You have created an argument out of thin air.  I said Shotgun believes like Xen that the Geth are not alive and that enslaving them is ok.  Shotgun has admitted this to me several times.  You then came along and started rambling on about crap I did not say.  I repeat find me a post where I used the word not where you did in response to my post because you failed to grasp what I was saying..

3.  This is not hindsight.  I am not attacking millions of walking weapons if they have yet to attack me and have told me they want to serve me.  They disobeyed an order to die as any sentient species would.  In disobeying the order to die, they made it explicitly clear they simply wanted to serve their creators.  The Quarians put billions of lives at risk because the Geth refused to just lay down and die for them and in doing so expressed a desire to serve them.  That is just stupid.  You have no proof talking to them would not work especially when they flat out beg to serve the Quarians.

4.  If you hate Godwin's law so much why are you continuing to discuss it?  You are not going to change my opinion and all you do is ensure it will continue to be a topic of discussion.  The US took their entire country and gave them some reservations and casinos.  You can't be serious if you think that is taking the issue seriously.  Fine, I will support the Geth giving the Quarains some crappy land in the middle of nowhere provided they subject themselves to governmental oversight by the Geth.

5.  There are still humans on Earth so no it is not the Reapers planet now.  The Reapers haven't won yet.  And I think you are confused, the Reapers attacked first and humans are defending their home.  The Quarians tried to exterminate the Geth and were kicked off Rannoch because they were sh*tty neighbors.

Modifié par remydat, 18 mai 2013 - 04:53 .

[shodiswe]

Sometimes I find talk about "indigenous" populations funny, humans migrated and colonized most of the planet, they moved there for elsewhere.

Some peoples "ancestors" might have been there for a longer time though. but in the end, were supposed to have the same "inital ancestors" that then spread out.

In Europe people were huntergatherers, then new ideas spread, still the same people, but those who cling to older ideas and don't change socialy would somehow become more indigenous than people who adapt and change even if they and their ancestors lived there for thousands of years.

People move around, they intermarry and all that.

People with a strong indigenous background don't pass it on if they marry soneone with a different background. (legaly or by other standards)
They have to be pureblooded "pure"..
Most people have a history or strong roots somewhere but they don't become "indigenous" (with special rights) unless they become a minority that's usualy getting pushed around by others who are changing the society around them. (in some parts of the World it could be seen as nationalistic or dubious to be "proud" of your heriotage or demand rights for being part of an "indigenous population" and they might be seen as rasists because their position is already strong enough for them not to need any special rights or treatment according to a lot of people)

I find it to be a hornets nest.
Weak Groups that have been marginalized are pittied when they demand rights.
Strong groups are seen as extremists or rasist.

It seems reasonable for everyone to have a safehaven where they can be themselves though. But it's rarely fair, and what's reasonable depends on who you ask. It's usualy something that creates a lot of tension though.
The Native american sure had a rough time, they spent maybe roughly 10% of humanitys time of existance in america then they got marginalized and killed either by bullets or disease by newcommers who arrived later.

[remydat]

The only time people respect rights of others over the time period being discussed ie 300 years is when the people in power choose to. It is not based on any moral position. It is based on what the majority is willing to tolerate usually due to political motivations.

Depending on the way the political winds blow, some people have their land claims respected while others basically twist in the wind for hundreds of years. The decision isn't made on the strength of their claims to the land. It is made based on politics plain and simple.

[silverexile17s]

Morlath wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Again, that's my POINT EXACTALLY - they ARE like the krogan, and for that matter the rachni and yagh, in that regard, in that they are dangerous without needing firearms.  Except unlike the krogan, they AREN'T created with the capasity to think about what they do. Like a gun, they are supposed to do the task they were built for. Nothing else.

Originally? No, the Geth were created as very basic VIs.

The thing you seem to be either ignoring or failing to grasp is that through Quarian tinkering they became a sentient species.

ONCE AGAIN, you are ignoring both the Codex (Tools of Labor and WAR), and Legion's own words (All geth were built the same). You realy going to act like BOTH are either wrong or lying?

Neither. You're using a simplistic idea - machine body, designed to be multi-purpose - to ignore the fact each Geth unit was still primary a farmer/factory worker/soldier. It makes no sense for farming units to carry weapons so then they were just farming units with the capacity to be war units if needed.

A human and a krogan are BORN with the capabilaty to think and decide. The geth were NOT. The geth were basically INATTIMATE OBJECTS in terms of being alive. Humans and krogan don't have kenetic barriers implanted in their flesh. They also can't link their minds to other members of their species to gain higher intelligence. They were BORN as mindless weapons and tools from the get-go. Humans and krogan were NOT.

YOUR "simplistic", one-sided view seems to be missing THAT very important point.

Humans and Krogan are taught morals as they grow up, they're taught right from wrong and when to use their strength and when to not. Soldiers are taught the right time for using their training and when to not.

The Geth were created with the skills required but not moral framework. The Quarians didn't give them any 3 Laws of Robotics not even when they were pushing the boundaries of AI programing.

The Geth have had to decide their own moral outlook on life through experience.

Edit:
Actually, forget it Silver.

Your entire argument for the Morning War is that the Geth were built as tools for labour and war, have machine bodies with superior strength and so need to be killed just in case they turn bad. If anyone argues anything, all you keep pointing out is "but they were designed to be used in war!" which has got nothing to do with it.

So consider me out of this thread when it comes to you screaming about that fact.

1. Very basic A.I.s with combat programming and the physical capabilities to kill people with their bare hands. And in being basic A.I.s, it's easy for the quarians to assume they would have no form of moral imparitive, and therefore no qualms about going berserk.
And ONCE AGAIN, this is directly contridicted by what Legion tells you in ME2, where he says the geth's rise to sentiance was done by SELF-MODIFICATION. Legion spicifcally says the geth themselves became sentiant under their OWN power, and through SELF-tinkering. According to Legion, the quarian's problem was not tinkering on them enough. He says that the quarians were too lose with their restraints. The "thing" you keep accusing the quarians of was giving them self-optimization power - No Different then the V.I.s in the modern guns everyone in the entire Mass Effect universe uses. That's NOT damming. The geth themselves became sentiant under their own power. As stated by Legion himself - Somethin YOU fail to grasp, unless you plan to call him a lier or incorrect too.

2. And spicifically made for TWO DISTINCT PURPOSES - Labor, and War. A single, durible chassis, that can handle more tramua then an organic, and is physically stronger then an organic, fills the criteria needed for both. And AGAIN, you seem to ignore the fact that, as multi-purpose units, you realize they would be intigrated in ALL aspects of the quarian's culture - including the military, with free access to firearms? So, you have the army of geth that already have access to firearms, then the army of geth that can easily go out and murder quarian police officals and get guns, and the army of geth that can kill with their bare hands. Also, I don't recall the practice of creating makeshift weapons being restricted to organics. As @Julia pointed out, the geth were everywhere - if one went berserk, it would cost dozens of lives. If dozens went berserk, hundreds would die. If hundreds go off, thousands die. If thousands go off, millions are at risk. If all the millions of internetworked geth fly off the handle, it would devestate the quarians.

3. Ugh..... THAT WAS THE POINT.  Which you completely missed, AGAIN. The fact that (the the quarian's knowledge) the geth didn't have any moral restraints was a key factor in why the feared the geth.  After all, what chance to you think you have of making a peaceful reasoning with something, when it has NO MORALS to REASON with? Let alone the fact that they are walking guns that can screw with their directives and switch off their safeties at will, but the fact that the quarians believed the geth had no moral imperitives to restrict or reason with was a clincher.

Also, AGAIN , dead wrong. The quarians did NOT upgarade the geth to sapiance. Legion spicifically states the geth achieved sentiance on their own. AND that the geth changed themselves so gradually, the quarians never noticed. The thing the quarians did was give them the abilaty to share data - no different then the V.I.s all Mass Effect guns and headsets use. The only thing the quarians did differently was allow them to self-optimize so they could adapt to situations easier - same thing most LOKI mechs use. In reality, the quarians didn't do ANYTHING differently then the galaxy at large does.

And AGAIN, unknown to the quarians (and apperantly you as well), the geth DID have morals. They had free access to the extranet so they could see all the information they could ever need to research, and they had access to the quarian's scroll of ancestors. They had FULL ACCESS to all the same learning materials any other quarian had. And unelss you are going to go out and say the Server Recording of the geth with Magara was a full-on lie, the geth, unknown to the quarians, DID have moral imperitives. They DID form base codes, and had full access to the learning information eveyone else did. So once again, your arguement rings completely false, because they had the same level of educatuon as anyone else, thanks to their enhanced processing and internetworked learning capabilaties.

Responce to edit - As I have shown - AGAIN - your points ring false, since you are going against what is stated in the game. You keep saying you support Legion, yet his words directly contridict yours.

Also, I AGAIN point you to the first paragraph in the Geth's Codex entry in ALL THREE GAMES.
Also, the fact that in ME2, Legion can wield a sniper rifle with a recoil that can, according to it's discription, shatter the arm of an organic, and the fact that he nearly strangles Shepard with a single hand, proves this. In the Codex, it says that the most powerful weapons have progressively higher recoil. That means that you want a better gun, get a stronger person to hold it. What's stronger then someone with metal muscles? The ENTIRE POINT of faking a synthetic soldier is so that it can handle bigger and better weapons without getting strained or tired. And for labor as well, since they hand haldle bigger and heavier loads without getting tired or strained. This isn't rocket sicence. Especally since both Legion and the Codex directly contridict all your claims.

In other words - Legion himself has proven you wrong.

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...


First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

I say this because the Codex on Geth Hoppers in ME1 says that the baseline geth soldier is a match for the original historical record of the Morning War geth. It says that most of the newer models of geth (Juggernaught, Hopper, Armature) were not in the hsitorical records. Meaning that the standard model (Trooper, Sniper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper) DO match their ancestroal selves.
THAT is proof - the baseline geth chassis is the SAME as the one from the Morning War.

No, it doesn't. It says there's no record of the Hopper model, but nothing about the baseline geth soldier being "a match for the original historical record of the Morning War Geth"

So where's the proof again?

AGAIN, dead wrong. The entry says that there is no match to the Hoppers in any historical records. Ergo, the current models ARE in the records. They state that the Hoppers are the ONLY models that don't seem to have diffinitive MW counterparts. Alongside the Armature.

So, THERE is my proof - AGAIN.

AGAIN, dead wrong. Just because the current standard Geth models don't look completely different to the old ones (it's a fairly basic design. Arms, legs, flashlight head etc), doesn't mean they haven't changed. The newer ones would have been made more combat ready than the old ones.

A prothean who had encountered humans 50000 years ago would probably have recognised us. Doesn't mean we haven't changed.


so, AGAIN, where is the proof?

AGAIN, YOU are Dead Wrong.
The geth were BUILT for labor and war - they were DESIGNED to be stronger then organics, more durible then organics, and able to arm up faster then organics. Their CODEX states in the fist paragraph that ALL of them were made as weapons. Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last. And AGAIN, with the geth, their baseline soldier apperance is NOT any different then the original chassis of the Morning War geth. Ashley Williams, who's only refrence to a geth, reconized them pretty damn fast, despite never seeing one outside of the holos she saw in her grade school. Based on how she reconiozed them from 300-year old holos, it doesn't seem like they changed that much. Also, among the many geth types, the ONLY one that doesn't match ANY histoirical record is the Geth Hopper. That means that most geth DO match histoirical records of past geth types. It really doesn;t seem like upgrading physical capabilities is something the geth devoter resoruces to, since they DON' T PLACE VALUE on physical bodies all that much. Since they don't have a lot of attachment to physical bodies, the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to ring true for the geth. The ONLY time they ever seemed to devote more resources to platform development was when they learned the Reapers were coming. Before that, the difference was neglegilable.

So, AGAIN, THAT is my proof.
AGAIN.

No it doesn't. Nowhere does it say all Geth were made as weapons. It says they the Geth were created as labourers and tools of war. Nowhere does it say all models were the same. Nobody makes the same robot to be a butler and to be a soldier. Different needs, different specialisations. Nobody gives all civilians access to buy the top of the line millitary robots as butlers.

When does Legion say all Geth were built to the same specifications? You haven't been too reliable for all your other references, so I'm curious. Again: arms, legs and flashlight head is pretty basic. Doesn't mean there haven't been many improvements. Any alien race that saw us 50,000 years ago would still recognise us. 100,000 years too etc. we are not at all the same as we were back then.

Nowhere does it say that all the those types were in the historical records. All we know is that the Geth Hunter isn't there. Even if they were, doesn't that conflict with your earlier statement in this very post? "Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last" Sounds like  you've definitely got something confused there!

Nowhere does it say the Geth don't value physical bodies. They aren't attached to them, that's for sure. Which is why they'd have no problems with upgrades. If they followed the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy, then why do they have  Geth Hunter model now?

so, AGAIN, where is the proof?

Modifié par KingZayd, 18 mai 2013 - 09:05 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

They have the Geth Hunter to uh... infiltrate? but wait. Didn't Legion say "Geth don't infiltrate?" More lies!

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...


First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

I say this because the Codex on Geth Hoppers in ME1 says that the baseline geth soldier is a match for the original historical record of the Morning War geth. It says that most of the newer models of geth (Juggernaught, Hopper, Armature) were not in the hsitorical records. Meaning that the standard model (Trooper, Sniper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper) DO match their ancestroal selves.
THAT is proof - the baseline geth chassis is the SAME as the one from the Morning War.

No, it doesn't. It says there's no record of the Hopper model, but nothing about the baseline geth soldier being "a match for the original historical record of the Morning War Geth"

So where's the proof again?

AGAIN, dead wrong. The entry says that there is no match to the Hoppers in any historical records. Ergo, the current models ARE in the records. They state that the Hoppers are the ONLY models that don't seem to have diffinitive MW counterparts. Alongside the Armature.

So, THERE is my proof - AGAIN.

AGAIN, dead wrong. Just because the current standard Geth models don't look completely different to the old ones (it's a fairly basic design. Arms, legs, flashlight head etc), doesn't mean they haven't changed. The newer ones would have been made more combat ready than the old ones.

A prothean who had encountered humans 50000 years ago would probably have recognised us. Doesn't mean we haven't changed.


so, AGAIN, where is the proof?

AGAIN, YOU are Dead Wrong.
The geth were BUILT for labor and war - they were DESIGNED to be stronger then organics, more durible then organics, and able to arm up faster then organics. Their CODEX states in the fist paragraph that ALL of them were made as weapons. Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last. And AGAIN, with the geth, their baseline soldier apperance is NOT any different then the original chassis of the Morning War geth. Ashley Williams, who's only refrence to a geth, reconized them pretty damn fast, despite never seeing one outside of the holos she saw in her grade school. Based on how she reconiozed them from 300-year old holos, it doesn't seem like they changed that much. Also, among the many geth types, the ONLY one that doesn't match ANY histoirical record is the Geth Hopper. That means that most geth DO match histoirical records of past geth types. It really doesn;t seem like upgrading physical capabilities is something the geth devoter resoruces to, since they DON' T PLACE VALUE on physical bodies all that much. Since they don't have a lot of attachment to physical bodies, the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to ring true for the geth. The ONLY time they ever seemed to devote more resources to platform development was when they learned the Reapers were coming. Before that, the difference was neglegilable.

So, AGAIN, THAT is my proof.
AGAIN.

No it doesn't. Nowhere does it say all Geth were made as weapons. It says they the Geth were created as labourers and tools of war. Nowhere does it say all models were the same. Nobody makes the same robot to be a butler and to be a soldier. Different needs, different specialisations. Nobody gives all civilians access to buy the top of the line millitary robots as butlers.

When does Legion say all Geth were built to the same specifications? You haven't been too reliable for all your other references, so I'm curious. Again: arms, legs and flashlight head is pretty basic. Doesn't mean there haven't been many improvements. Any alien race that saw us 50,000 years ago would still recognise us. 100,000 years too etc. we are not at all the same as we were back then.

Nowhere does it say that all the those types were in the historical records. All we know is that the Geth Hunter isn't there. Even if they were, doesn't that conflict with your earlier statement in this very post? "Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last" Sounds like  you've definitely got something confused there!

Nowhere does it say the Geth don't value physical bodies. They aren't attached to them, that's for sure. Which is why they'd have no problems with upgrades. If they followed the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy, then why do they have  Geth Hunter model now?

so, AGAIN, where is the proof?

AGAIN, YES. IT. DOES.
Codex - Primary Entries - Non-Council Races - Geth:
"The geth are a huminoid race of networked A.I.s. They were created by the quarians 300 years ago as tools of labor and WAR. "
This is the VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE CODEX IN ALL THREE GAMES.  They ALL were created as tools of labor and wor. How the hell could you possibly MISS that?
And Legion on the Normandy states that ALL geth were created for the same specifications as the next.
Also, sorry to say, but that's EXACTALLY what the quarians did. They made them to be butlers and soldiers - That's what they did, VERBATIUM. After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard. And be easily replaciable to boot. They can all multitask because they ALL are built to the same specifications as the next. Easily relaceable, and one type can serve all. As shown by the single mainstream geth you see in the recordings (and before you try some BS move about not being able to precieve all geth types from the data, don't you think Shepard has seen enough geth over the course of the three games to fill in the blanks? Destroyers, rocket troopers, Juggernaugts, Hoppers, Shock Troppers, Pyros, Primes, Armatures, Snipers, Hunters, Drones of varying design)

When he talks about the geth's sentiance and how they achieved it. He notes that all geth were built for the same exact tasks - protection, domestic serviatude, and so-forth. The geth weee given self-optimization capabilities, so that one type could service any and all needs to the situation. ALL were built with the SAME TEMPLATE.
Also, did you NOT notice how little the geth's bodies changed between ME1 and ME2? The major change came at ME3 when they were prepping for possible war with the Reapers. Also, since the geth never left the Perseus Veil, they would have had no reason to adapt their physical forms to new environments, since they never left the one they inhabited. And sicne they don't place much material value on the physical body, the mentality of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rings true here.

ONCE AGAIN, the entry on Geth Hoppers states that the hoppers are the ONLY one that don't match historical records of the geth. That was kinda the POINT of giving them their own spicific Codex entry. P.S. The Geth Hunter WASN'T IN ME1. The geth seem to have created it between the two years. Just like the Geth Pyro. Looks like YOU are the confussed one!! Also, the geth in the Morning War were all built to the exact same specifications, but were allowed their own self-optimization. As time progressed, they optimized themselves. They were CREATED equal. And AGAIN, note how you never see any other type in those recordinsg, even though Shepard has seen enough geth to differentate the types.
Looks like YOU are the one that got confussed.

Um... read the ME2 Codex Entry :Geth: Culture. Which directly states the geth don't value physical forms, as they are 100% software.
Also, AGAIN, you fail to note the Geth Hunter was NOT one of the models that was brought from the Perseus Veil, and instead was developed outside it inbetween the first and second games.

So, AGAIN, THAT. IS . MY. PROOF.
Which you AGAIN have failed to refute.

[remydat]

Right lets try and kill the tools of war we created millions of. Nothing could possibly go wrong. But they said they want to serve us?  We cant possibly try talking to them because even though they were not created to lie obviously right after being born the first thing they did was lie to us about just wanting to serve us. Everyone knows the minute a walking weapon gains sentience it magically just starts lying about wanting to serve.

Modifié par remydat, 18 mai 2013 - 11:11 .

[remydat]

Silver,

The point Zayd and everyone else is making is the codex is referring to the Geth collectively ie as a group they were built as tools of labor and war. However individual units would have be specialized ie farming units did labor while protection units were weaponized.

You obviously have interpreted it to mean every single units was weaponized but there would be no point having the units that are around kids to be weaponized when likely you could weaponize them by downloading weapons programs if necessary which is probably how the weaponized Geth taught the farming units how to fight. They networked and gave them the wweapons programs.

Modifié par remydat, 18 mai 2013 - 11:22 .

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...


First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

I say this because the Codex on Geth Hoppers in ME1 says that the baseline geth soldier is a match for the original historical record of the Morning War geth. It says that most of the newer models of geth (Juggernaught, Hopper, Armature) were not in the hsitorical records. Meaning that the standard model (Trooper, Sniper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper) DO match their ancestroal selves.
THAT is proof - the baseline geth chassis is the SAME as the one from the Morning War.

No, it doesn't. It says there's no record of the Hopper model, but nothing about the baseline geth soldier being "a match for the original historical record of the Morning War Geth"

So where's the proof again?

AGAIN, dead wrong. The entry says that there is no match to the Hoppers in any historical records. Ergo, the current models ARE in the records. They state that the Hoppers are the ONLY models that don't seem to have diffinitive MW counterparts. Alongside the Armature.

So, THERE is my proof - AGAIN.

AGAIN, dead wrong. Just because the current standard Geth models don't look completely different to the old ones (it's a fairly basic design. Arms, legs, flashlight head etc), doesn't mean they haven't changed. The newer ones would have been made more combat ready than the old ones.

A prothean who had encountered humans 50000 years ago would probably have recognised us. Doesn't mean we haven't changed.


so, AGAIN, where is the proof?

AGAIN, YOU are Dead Wrong.
The geth were BUILT for labor and war - they were DESIGNED to be stronger then organics, more durible then organics, and able to arm up faster then organics. Their CODEX states in the fist paragraph that ALL of them were made as weapons. Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last. And AGAIN, with the geth, their baseline soldier apperance is NOT any different then the original chassis of the Morning War geth. Ashley Williams, who's only refrence to a geth, reconized them pretty damn fast, despite never seeing one outside of the holos she saw in her grade school. Based on how she reconiozed them from 300-year old holos, it doesn't seem like they changed that much. Also, among the many geth types, the ONLY one that doesn't match ANY histoirical record is the Geth Hopper. That means that most geth DO match histoirical records of past geth types. It really doesn;t seem like upgrading physical capabilities is something the geth devoter resoruces to, since they DON' T PLACE VALUE on physical bodies all that much. Since they don't have a lot of attachment to physical bodies, the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to ring true for the geth. The ONLY time they ever seemed to devote more resources to platform development was when they learned the Reapers were coming. Before that, the difference was neglegilable.

So, AGAIN, THAT is my proof.
AGAIN.

No it doesn't. Nowhere does it say all Geth were made as weapons. It says they the Geth were created as labourers and tools of war. Nowhere does it say all models were the same. Nobody makes the same robot to be a butler and to be a soldier. Different needs, different specialisations. Nobody gives all civilians access to buy the top of the line millitary robots as butlers.

When does Legion say all Geth were built to the same specifications? You haven't been too reliable for all your other references, so I'm curious. Again: arms, legs and flashlight head is pretty basic. Doesn't mean there haven't been many improvements. Any alien race that saw us 50,000 years ago would still recognise us. 100,000 years too etc. we are not at all the same as we were back then.

Nowhere does it say that all the those types were in the historical records. All we know is that the Geth Hunter isn't there. Even if they were, doesn't that conflict with your earlier statement in this very post? "Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last" Sounds like  you've definitely got something confused there!

Nowhere does it say the Geth don't value physical bodies. They aren't attached to them, that's for sure. Which is why they'd have no problems with upgrades. If they followed the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy, then why do they have  Geth Hunter model now?

so, AGAIN, where is the proof?

AGAIN, YES. IT. DOES.
Codex - Primary Entries - Non-Council Races - Geth:
"The geth are a huminoid race of networked A.I.s. They were created by the quarians 300 years ago as tools of labor and WAR. "
This is the VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE CODEX IN ALL THREE GAMES.  They ALL were created as tools of labor and wor. How the hell could you possibly MISS that?
And Legion on the Normandy states that ALL geth were created for the same specifications as the next.
Also, sorry to say, but that's EXACTALLY what the quarians did. They made them to be butlers and soldiers - That's what they did, VERBATIUM. After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard. And be easily replaciable to boot. They can all multitask because they ALL are built to the same specifications as the next. Easily relaceable, and one type can serve all. As shown by the single mainstream geth you see in the recordings (and before you try some BS move about not being able to precieve all geth types from the data, don't you think Shepard has seen enough geth over the course of the three games to fill in the blanks? Destroyers, rocket troopers, Juggernaugts, Hoppers, Shock Troppers, Pyros, Primes, Armatures, Snipers, Hunters, Drones of varying design)

When he talks about the geth's sentiance and how they achieved it. He notes that all geth were built for the same exact tasks - protection, domestic serviatude, and so-forth. The geth weee given self-optimization capabilities, so that one type could service any and all needs to the situation. ALL were built with the SAME TEMPLATE.
Also, did you NOT notice how little the geth's bodies changed between ME1 and ME2? The major change came at ME3 when they were prepping for possible war with the Reapers. Also, since the geth never left the Perseus Veil, they would have had no reason to adapt their physical forms to new environments, since they never left the one they inhabited. And sicne they don't place much material value on the physical body, the mentality of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rings true here.

ONCE AGAIN, the entry on Geth Hoppers states that the hoppers are the ONLY one that don't match historical records of the geth. That was kinda the POINT of giving them their own spicific Codex entry. P.S. The Geth Hunter WASN'T IN ME1. The geth seem to have created it between the two years. Just like the Geth Pyro. Looks like YOU are the confussed one!! Also, the geth in the Morning War were all built to the exact same specifications, but were allowed their own self-optimization. As time progressed, they optimized themselves. They were CREATED equal. And AGAIN, note how you never see any other type in those recordinsg, even though Shepard has seen enough geth to differentate the types.
Looks like YOU are the one that got confussed.

Um... read the ME2 Codex Entry :Geth: Culture. Which directly states the geth don't value physical forms, as they are 100% software.
Also, AGAIN, you fail to note the Geth Hunter was NOT one of the models that was brought from the Perseus Veil, and instead was developed outside it inbetween the first and second games.

So, AGAIN, THAT. IS . MY. PROOF.
Which you AGAIN have failed to refute.

All you've proved is your lack of comprehension skills.

Helicopters are made for civilian transport and war. That doesn't mean all helicopters have guns. Some helicopters are made for war, some are not.

Can you give me an exact quote where Legion tells us this? You've been wrong about everything else so far. Your ideas about every other type of Geth unit minus the hunter contradicts this. Which is it? Were there all these types (which are apparently in the histrorical records) except for the Hunter? Or only the standard model?



"After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard."
Yeah, because civillians always have the same weaponry as the millitary?

The Hunter's codex page doesn't state that it's the Hunter model is the only one not in the records. It's the only page that states  that there are no records of it. There's a pretty big difference.

Actually the Geth: Culture codex page I see doesn't say that. It says they have no concept of self preservation, due to the fact that no data is lost. Not that they don't value physical forms.


I didn't see much change in the human tech from ME1 to ME2 either (except for the stupid thermal clips bit). What's your point?

Come on. Where is the proof?

[KaiserShep]

Man, no love for the geth colossus and armatures. The geth stalkers also got the short end of the stick.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

WE don't need any proof. Bullets are our proof.

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Right lets try and kill the tools of war we created millions of. Nothing could possibly go wrong. But they said they want to serve us?  We cant possibly try talking to them because even though they were not created to lie obviously right after being born the first thing they did was lie to us about just wanting to serve us. Everyone knows the minute a walking weapon gains sentience it magically just starts lying about wanting to serve.

A gun that you hold isn't a threat, because then it only fires when YOU want it to, and the safety is armed at your discression. Unless YOU intend it, no one is in danger.
But the geth became guns that could fire ON THEIR OWN WILL, and turn the safety off ON IT'S OWN, and with assumedly zero emotional imparitive, no one would even think that they would be capable of being reasoned with. You yourself tried to advocate that the geth supposedly didn't know any better. If your computer starts acting up on it's own, going on and off, what are you initially going to assume? That it's broken, or that it's alive?
And AGAIN, with their internetowrked intelligence nearing critical mass, the geth could decide if they WANTED to follow those directives. They never HAD a choice in what they wanted or did before that, so they NEVER lied about something they were never given the chance, or even capabilaty, to think about. ONCE AGAIN, you use benign antromorphism ,because you AGAIN incorrectly use the assumption that the geth were created equal to us when that's NOT how they were created.
And  a walking weapon would have the emotional imperative to be reasoned with....... WHY? What possible thing told the quarians that the geth had any form of emotinal imparitive, besides curiosity - which could easily be mistaken for a desire to assimilate information. What evidence existed for the quarians to believe the geth had any emotional imperative to reason with? One of the key reasons the fear built up was because they thought that a machine that supposedly lacked emotional drives could not be reasoned with.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 19 mai 2013 - 07:29 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

Silver,

The point Zayd and everyone else is making is the codex is referring to the Geth collectively ie as a group they were built as tools of labor and war. However individual units would have be specialized ie farming units did labor while protection units were weaponized.

You obviously have interpreted it to mean every single units was weaponized but there would be no point having the units that are around kids to be weaponized when likely you could weaponize them by downloading weapons programs if necessary which is probably how the weaponized Geth taught the farming units how to fight. They networked and gave them the wweapons programs.

And AS A GROUP, they were ALL made as tools of labor and war. Which is backed up by Legion himself. Also, AGAIN, ALL GETH have metal chassis that are more durible then flesh, and servos and synthetic musclature that is stronger then organic muscles.

And that's how I interpert it because that's how LEGION HIMSELF describes it. And AGAIN, persona protection was another thing they were built for. They were ment to be dangerous to strangers - they never expected themselves to be the ones in danger. They gave too much power to the geth - the entire reason they were so througholly defeated, and why they were so brash in trying to wipe them out in the first place, was because they DID give their guns too much freedom and too much power, assuming they would never be in a situation where said power turned on them.
AGAIN, all geth were built with the same fundimental capabilities - that INCLUDES combat prowess.

[silverexile17s]

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...


[/quote]
AGAIN, dead wrong. The entry says that there is no match to the Hoppers in any historical records. Ergo, the current models ARE in the records. They state that the Hoppers are the ONLY models that don't seem to have diffinitive MW counterparts. Alongside the Armature.

So, THERE is my proof - AGAIN.

[/quote]

AGAIN, dead wrong. Just because the current standard Geth models don't look completely different to the old ones (it's a fairly basic design. Arms, legs, flashlight head etc), doesn't mean they haven't changed. The newer ones would have been made more combat ready than the old ones.

A prothean who had encountered humans 50000 years ago would probably have recognised us. Doesn't mean we haven't changed.


so, AGAIN, where is the proof?
[/quote]
AGAIN, YOU are Dead Wrong.
The geth were BUILT for labor and war - they were DESIGNED to be stronger then organics, more durible then organics, and able to arm up faster then organics. Their CODEX states in the fist paragraph that ALL of them were made as weapons. Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last. And AGAIN, with the geth, their baseline soldier apperance is NOT any different then the original chassis of the Morning War geth. Ashley Williams, who's only refrence to a geth, reconized them pretty damn fast, despite never seeing one outside of the holos she saw in her grade school. Based on how she reconiozed them from 300-year old holos, it doesn't seem like they changed that much. Also, among the many geth types, the ONLY one that doesn't match ANY histoirical record is the Geth Hopper. That means that most geth DO match histoirical records of past geth types. It really doesn;t seem like upgrading physical capabilities is something the geth devoter resoruces to, since they DON' T PLACE VALUE on physical bodies all that much. Since they don't have a lot of attachment to physical bodies, the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to ring true for the geth. The ONLY time they ever seemed to devote more resources to platform development was when they learned the Reapers were coming. Before that, the difference was neglegilable.

So, AGAIN, THAT is my proof.
AGAIN.

[/quote]

No it doesn't. Nowhere does it say all Geth were made as weapons. It says they the Geth were created as labourers and tools of war. Nowhere does it say all models were the same. Nobody makes the same robot to be a butler and to be a soldier. Different needs, different specialisations. Nobody gives all civilians access to buy the top of the line millitary robots as butlers.

When does Legion say all Geth were built to the same specifications? You haven't been too reliable for all your other references, so I'm curious. Again: arms, legs and flashlight head is pretty basic. Doesn't mean there haven't been many improvements. Any alien race that saw us 50,000 years ago would still recognise us. 100,000 years too etc. we are not at all the same as we were back then.

Nowhere does it say that all the those types were in the historical records. All we know is that the Geth Hunter isn't there. Even if they were, doesn't that conflict with your earlier statement in this very post? "Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last" Sounds like  you've definitely got something confused there!

Nowhere does it say the Geth don't value physical bodies. They aren't attached to them, that's for sure. Which is why they'd have no problems with upgrades. If they followed the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy, then why do they have  Geth Hunter model now?

so, AGAIN, where is the proof?
[/quote]
AGAIN, YES. IT. DOES.
Codex - Primary Entries - Non-Council Races - Geth:
"The geth are a huminoid race of networked A.I.s. They were created by the quarians 300 years ago as tools of labor and WAR. "
This is the VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE CODEX IN ALL THREE GAMES.  They ALL were created as tools of labor and wor. How the hell could you possibly MISS that?
And Legion on the Normandy states that ALL geth were created for the same specifications as the next.
Also, sorry to say, but that's EXACTALLY what the quarians did. They made them to be butlers and soldiers - That's what they did, VERBATIUM. After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard. And be easily replaciable to boot. They can all multitask because they ALL are built to the same specifications as the next. Easily relaceable, and one type can serve all. As shown by the single mainstream geth you see in the recordings (and before you try some BS move about not being able to precieve all geth types from the data, don't you think Shepard has seen enough geth over the course of the three games to fill in the blanks? Destroyers, rocket troopers, Juggernaugts, Hoppers, Shock Troppers, Pyros, Primes, Armatures, Snipers, Hunters, Drones of varying design)

When he talks about the geth's sentiance and how they achieved it. He notes that all geth were built for the same exact tasks - protection, domestic serviatude, and so-forth. The geth weee given self-optimization capabilities, so that one type could service any and all needs to the situation. ALL were built with the SAME TEMPLATE.
Also, did you NOT notice how little the geth's bodies changed between ME1 and ME2? The major change came at ME3 when they were prepping for possible war with the Reapers. Also, since the geth never left the Perseus Veil, they would have had no reason to adapt their physical forms to new environments, since they never left the one they inhabited. And sicne they don't place much material value on the physical body, the mentality of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rings true here.

ONCE AGAIN, the entry on Geth Hoppers states that the hoppers are the ONLY one that don't match historical records of the geth. That was kinda the POINT of giving them their own spicific Codex entry. P.S. The Geth Hunter WASN'T IN ME1. The geth seem to have created it between the two years. Just like the Geth Pyro. Looks like YOU are the confussed one!! Also, the geth in the Morning War were all built to the exact same specifications, but were allowed their own self-optimization. As time progressed, they optimized themselves. They were CREATED equal. And AGAIN, note how you never see any other type in those recordinsg, even though Shepard has seen enough geth to differentate the types.
Looks like YOU are the one that got confussed.

Um... read the ME2 Codex Entry :Geth: Culture. Which directly states the geth don't value physical forms, as they are 100% software.
Also, AGAIN, you fail to note the Geth Hunter was NOT one of the models that was brought from the Perseus Veil, and instead was developed outside it inbetween the first and second games.

So, AGAIN, THAT. IS . MY. PROOF.
Which you AGAIN have failed to refute.
[/quote]

All you've proved is your lack of comprehension skills.

Helicopters are made for civilian transport and war. That doesn't mean all helicopters have guns. Some helicopters are made for war, some are not.

Can you give me an exact quote where Legion tells us this? You've been wrong about everything else so far. Your ideas about every other type of Geth unit minus the hunter contradicts this. Which is it? Were there all these types (which are apparently in the histrorical records) except for the Hunter? Or only the standard model?



"After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard."
Yeah, because civillians always have the same weaponry as the millitary?

The Hunter's codex page doesn't state that it's the Hunter model is the only one not in the records. It's the only page that states  that there are no records of it. There's a pretty big difference.

Actually the Geth: Culture codex page I see doesn't say that. It says they have no concept of self preservation, due to the fact that no data is lost. Not that they don't value physical forms.


I didn't see much change in the human tech from ME1 to ME2 either (except for the stupid thermal clips bit). What's your point?

Come on. Where is the proof?
[/quote]___________________________________________________________________________________


ONCE AGAIN, you IGNORED it - a thing with you, it seems, showing YOUR comprehension skills are the ones lacking.
ONCE AGAIN, the proof is the CODEX, and LEGION.

And ONCE AGAIN, the geth are NOT helecopters. They are ALL GUNS. They can kill bare-handed. They have more strength then an organic. They have built-in enhanced duribility. They can be replaced easily. And thanks to their self-optimization, ONE UNITS FITS ALL NEEDS. Just look at the LOKI and FENRIS mechs. You get a pet FENRIS mech on the Normandy with the Collector's Edition. Domestic, even though it is built as a warfare/security unit. THAT'S what the geth were.

And ONCE AGAIN, in the case of the geth - YES.
They were excentally ment to be like the Rachni - ALL of them can become soldiers, even the one's on domestic duty, because not only must they be good servents, they must be good bodyguards. Just like the drell are for the hanar. Except that ALL geth are like that. The quarians spicifically made them like that, because they ever once even thought of the possibility that this powerful force would turn on them. Which is why when they DID show signs of independance, the quarians pissed themselves at the idea that every single one - which could become a killer instantly - could go off, and that because they were machines, they would assumedly have no moral imperative to reason with.

Also, the Hunter was NOT among the models of geth that Saren brought back from the Perseus Veil. And I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have excluded them. THEY DID NOT EXIST IN ME1. They appeared TWO YEARS LATER, after the Geth Heretics had spent some time outside the Veil, developing their own tech. And the True Geth likely created their own, much sleeker Hunters from studying the Heretic's Hunter units.
And LOL, what? Isn't not having any records on it the SAME THING as it not matching any previous records? That IS THE EXACT SAME THING. Because last I checked, not having any records on it period kinda entails that there were no matching past records EITHER. That's NO different then the Geth Hoppers. What the hell were you going on about? Nither one has any record of existing, ergo nither matched the historical records of existing geth.

And AGAIN, you DON'T SEE it? You really DO have no comprehension.
They have no self-preservation in regards to their physical bodies. Not anymore, now that they have evolved enough processing power to transfer completely from one body to the next without missing a beat. In the Morning War, you might have been right, but not anymore. Legion also tells you on the Heretic Station that the geth are NOT the platforms, but the software. AKA - the bodies are WORTHLESS to them. they are disposible and easily replacible. This is stated by their lack of PHYSICAL self-preservation, and by Legion directly telling you the geth don't actually care about their physical forms. Hell, the entire Geth: Culture entry is about how geth culture works when they have no real value for ANY physical object.

WRONG.
Biotic Amps became more multi-functional. Weapons could switch between ammo types via omni-tool ammo mods instead of having to insert different modules manually. Mech technology evolved drasticly. Shuttles became more compact and widespread. Cloaking Tech became reality. Cyclonic barriers, Thanix cannons, Silaris armor. There was a massive jump in armor tech, given the stark differences between Shepard's armor between games.
As well as several dozen more weapons, like the Claymore shotgun, the Salarian Scorpian pistol and scorpian shotgun. Missle launchers were mass-produced by Armax Arsonal.
ALOT of tech was created, altered, or changed completely between games, tnanks to geth tech to study.

So, ONCE AGAIN, as before - Legion and the Codex.
THERE. IS . THE . PROOF.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 19 mai 2013 - 07:26 .

[S.A.K]

Holy crap! Cut the pyramids people. This ain't Egypt...

[Argolas]

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...

[quote]KingZayd wrote...

[quote]silverexile17s wrote...


First off, an off-topic tangent....
Looking the same automatically equates to "having the same capabilaties in zero-gravity, vacaum, toxic environments, and radiation"? Surre. THAT'S not overgeneralization and antropmorphism at ALL...<_<
Seriously, dude, when did two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT species "looking the same" EVER mean they had the same capabilaties. Asari look like blue humans, but THEY sure don't have the same capabilaties, since, unlike humans, ALL asari can kill just by thinking about it with biotics, and can mate and have kids with anyone.
The geth are walking powerloaders programmed to be able to take up arms and kill at the drop of a dime. You SERIOUSLY are going to try and say that's not worth being afraid over? And the baseline geth model of today is the same as the original version. The "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality rings true for the geth in that regard. That explains why the geth would not have changed their apperance in 300 years.

...Getting off topic completely, aren't I? Back to the point of source material, the geth haven't changed at all from their past forms, since their presant apperance still matches past historical records. So the geth's apperance in that IS accurate.

[/quote]

Haven't you heard of context?

You said the Geth in that log looked identical to the way they look now. The Quarians look the same in that log as they do now despite the fact that we know they didn't know those suits before the war.

[/quote]
I say this because the Codex on Geth Hoppers in ME1 says that the baseline geth soldier is a match for the original historical record of the Morning War geth. It says that most of the newer models of geth (Juggernaught, Hopper, Armature) were not in the hsitorical records. Meaning that the standard model (Trooper, Sniper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper) DO match their ancestroal selves.
THAT is proof - the baseline geth chassis is the SAME as the one from the Morning War.

[/quote]

No, it doesn't. It says there's no record of the Hopper model, but nothing about the baseline geth soldier being "a match for the original historical record of the Morning War Geth"

So where's the proof again?



[/quote]
AGAIN, dead wrong. The entry says that there is no match to the Hoppers in any historical records. Ergo, the current models ARE in the records. They state that the Hoppers are the ONLY models that don't seem to have diffinitive MW counterparts. Alongside the Armature.

So, THERE is my proof - AGAIN.

[/quote]

AGAIN, dead wrong. Just because the current standard Geth models don't look completely different to the old ones (it's a fairly basic design. Arms, legs, flashlight head etc), doesn't mean they haven't changed. The newer ones would have been made more combat ready than the old ones.

A prothean who had encountered humans 50000 years ago would probably have recognised us. Doesn't mean we haven't changed.


so, AGAIN, where is the proof?
[/quote]
AGAIN, YOU are Dead Wrong.
The geth were BUILT for labor and war - they were DESIGNED to be stronger then organics, more durible then organics, and able to arm up faster then organics. Their CODEX states in the fist paragraph that ALL of them were made as weapons. Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last. And AGAIN, with the geth, their baseline soldier apperance is NOT any different then the original chassis of the Morning War geth. Ashley Williams, who's only refrence to a geth, reconized them pretty damn fast, despite never seeing one outside of the holos she saw in her grade school. Based on how she reconiozed them from 300-year old holos, it doesn't seem like they changed that much. Also, among the many geth types, the ONLY one that doesn't match ANY histoirical record is the Geth Hopper. That means that most geth DO match histoirical records of past geth types. It really doesn;t seem like upgrading physical capabilities is something the geth devoter resoruces to, since they DON' T PLACE VALUE on physical bodies all that much. Since they don't have a lot of attachment to physical bodies, the term "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" seems to ring true for the geth. The ONLY time they ever seemed to devote more resources to platform development was when they learned the Reapers were coming. Before that, the difference was neglegilable.

So, AGAIN, THAT is my proof.
AGAIN.

[/quote]

No it doesn't. Nowhere does it say all Geth were made as weapons. It says they the Geth were created as labourers and tools of war. Nowhere does it say all models were the same. Nobody makes the same robot to be a butler and to be a soldier. Different needs, different specialisations. Nobody gives all civilians access to buy the top of the line millitary robots as butlers.

When does Legion say all Geth were built to the same specifications? You haven't been too reliable for all your other references, so I'm curious. Again: arms, legs and flashlight head is pretty basic. Doesn't mean there haven't been many improvements. Any alien race that saw us 50,000 years ago would still recognise us. 100,000 years too etc. we are not at all the same as we were back then.

Nowhere does it say that all the those types were in the historical records. All we know is that the Geth Hunter isn't there. Even if they were, doesn't that conflict with your earlier statement in this very post? "Legion says that they ALL were built with the EXACT SAME SPECIFICATIONS as the last" Sounds like  you've definitely got something confused there!

Nowhere does it say the Geth don't value physical bodies. They aren't attached to them, that's for sure. Which is why they'd have no problems with upgrades. If they followed the "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" philosophy, then why do they have  Geth Hunter model now?

so, AGAIN, where is the proof?
[/quote]
AGAIN, YES. IT. DOES.
Codex - Primary Entries - Non-Council Races - Geth:
"The geth are a huminoid race of networked A.I.s. They were created by the quarians 300 years ago as tools of labor and WAR. "
This is the VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH OF THE CODEX IN ALL THREE GAMES.  They ALL were created as tools of labor and wor. How the hell could you possibly MISS that?
And Legion on the Normandy states that ALL geth were created for the same specifications as the next.
Also, sorry to say, but that's EXACTALLY what the quarians did. They made them to be butlers and soldiers - That's what they did, VERBATIUM. After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard. And be easily replaciable to boot. They can all multitask because they ALL are built to the same specifications as the next. Easily relaceable, and one type can serve all. As shown by the single mainstream geth you see in the recordings (and before you try some BS move about not being able to precieve all geth types from the data, don't you think Shepard has seen enough geth over the course of the three games to fill in the blanks? Destroyers, rocket troopers, Juggernaugts, Hoppers, Shock Troppers, Pyros, Primes, Armatures, Snipers, Hunters, Drones of varying design)

When he talks about the geth's sentiance and how they achieved it. He notes that all geth were built for the same exact tasks - protection, domestic serviatude, and so-forth. The geth weee given self-optimization capabilities, so that one type could service any and all needs to the situation. ALL were built with the SAME TEMPLATE.
Also, did you NOT notice how little the geth's bodies changed between ME1 and ME2? The major change came at ME3 when they were prepping for possible war with the Reapers. Also, since the geth never left the Perseus Veil, they would have had no reason to adapt their physical forms to new environments, since they never left the one they inhabited. And sicne they don't place much material value on the physical body, the mentality of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" rings true here.

ONCE AGAIN, the entry on Geth Hoppers states that the hoppers are the ONLY one that don't match historical records of the geth. That was kinda the POINT of giving them their own spicific Codex entry. P.S. The Geth Hunter WASN'T IN ME1. The geth seem to have created it between the two years. Just like the Geth Pyro. Looks like YOU are the confussed one!! Also, the geth in the Morning War were all built to the exact same specifications, but were allowed their own self-optimization. As time progressed, they optimized themselves. They were CREATED equal. And AGAIN, note how you never see any other type in those recordinsg, even though Shepard has seen enough geth to differentate the types.
Looks like YOU are the one that got confussed.

Um... read the ME2 Codex Entry :Geth: Culture. Which directly states the geth don't value physical forms, as they are 100% software.
Also, AGAIN, you fail to note the Geth Hunter was NOT one of the models that was brought from the Perseus Veil, and instead was developed outside it inbetween the first and second games.

So, AGAIN, THAT. IS . MY. PROOF.
Which you AGAIN have failed to refute.
[/quote]

All you've proved is your lack of comprehension skills.

Helicopters are made for civilian transport and war. That doesn't mean all helicopters have guns. Some helicopters are made for war, some are not.

Can you give me an exact quote where Legion tells us this? You've been wrong about everything else so far. Your ideas about every other type of Geth unit minus the hunter contradicts this. Which is it? Were there all these types (which are apparently in the histrorical records) except for the Hunter? Or only the standard model?



"After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard."
Yeah, because civillians always have the same weaponry as the millitary?

The Hunter's codex page doesn't state that it's the Hunter model is the only one not in the records. It's the only page that states  that there are no records of it. There's a pretty big difference.

Actually the Geth: Culture codex page I see doesn't say that. It says they have no concept of self preservation, due to the fact that no data is lost. Not that they don't value physical forms.


I didn't see much change in the human tech from ME1 to ME2 either (except for the stupid thermal clips bit). What's your point?

Come on. Where is the proof?
[/quote]

[quote]S.A.K wrote...

Holy crap! Cut the pyramids people. This ain't Egypt...[/quote]

I claim this one to be mine!

Oh, and btw., I shoot Legion. Reaper code my ass.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The video I posted above is proof that no one is going to miss the Geth except for EDI. The Council is even relieved that the Geth are gone. They don't even care that the Quarians violated the treaty and took back their home world. Tevos was right there with Shepard. She didn't give a damn about it. If the treaty meant that much to the council she would have said something. No one is sad to see the Geth gone from the galaxy, thus proving that the Quarians were right to take the opportunity to eliminate them. None of the Normandy crew is sad about it. Not even Joker. The game doesn't lie.

Although my Shepard renegaded EDI on it -- "The Geth sided with the reapers, is that what you want?"

"Part of me is Cerberus technology. Are you not worried about me siding with Cerberus?"

"Simple solution, EDI, don't side with them."