826 réponses à ce sujet

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

remydat wrote...

Stormcutter wrote...

snip*

I believe the Quarians exterminating them without the code is what brings about a rapid turn in his ideals.  Extinction tends to do that to sentient species.

So when the Geth lost intelligence / programs, self preservation took over making them side with the Reapers even though it only bought them a little while longer of continued existence. 
If the Quarians hadn't attacked, the Reapers would have to get involved, Since the Reapers are superior to the Quarians in terms of technology, fire power, numbers what chance would the Geth stahd against them. Wouldn't the Geth lose intelligence/programs over the course of the war with the Reapers, making them side with them anyway. 

  Rachni paid for mistake with extinction(or thought to be extinct), Krogan were sterilized, not once but twice and the second time was only because they might to do something. Quarians accidentally create the Geth, they lose billions of people, they are denied help from the council, denied a new home world, forced to pay for mistakes they did not commit.  The Geth have attacked organics on repeated occasions, have done nothing to assist anyone but themselves.   Krogan were facing extinction because their having health/reproduction problems, Quarians were abandoned by the rest of the galaxy, and forced to fight a space war on their decaying ships with their entire population aboard. Even though the Rachni were few in numbers(ME3) they opposed the Reapers, but were forced to work with the Reapers. Yet the Geth were the only ones to join the Reapers, by choice. 


   Now im supposed to trust them and reward them?

I agree. We've made these points numerous times but Remy doesn't care. All he cares about is that damned treaty. He's worse than that suit-wetter Koris. I tried stuffing this crest into an environment suit for a week, and those things are uncomfortable. My Laura Roslin reading glasses tell me to support the Quarians. I can't support the Geth.

Remy will come up with a Hitler analogy any way he can. I guess it's because I'm not all peace and love and don't hug my toaster oven every morning.

The other problem is that Hackett sent you to get the Quarian fleet for logistics and troop transport, neither of which the Geth are capable of. Both of which the Allied fleets needed. So if you can't make peace, you should follow your orders and help the Quarians win their war.

In fact, humans should understand the concept of having to hold down their own fort unaided perfectly, since the Council shafted them repeatedly - in the Eden Prime War against Saren and the Heretics, and before that, the Skyllian Blitz against the batarians. Both times, the Council left them out to dry when they were asked for help. The Council made it clear they weren't going to just up and help them, so they did the job themselves - just like the quarians did at Rannoch.
I mean, if a junior Citadel race couldn't get aid from the Council against the geth while they were under attack, what the hell would make the quarians - an exiled race - think they would get it now? Even after the Battle of the Citadel, the Council never sent anyone to check on the rest of the Veil - at least not that I know of.
In fact, Hackett tells you in the breifing that he completely understands where Gerrel was coming from when he attacked the Geth Dreadnought.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 mai 2013 - 05:37 .

[silverexile17s]

remydat wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

1. It's pre-programed. Think of every single personal geth unit being like the drell are for the hanar - personal servents that double as the ultimate bodyguard force and private army. The quarians never even THOUGHT of the idea that the geth would turn on them back when they first created them. They ALL instinctually know how to fight and how to kill. The difference was that back then, they needed to be ordered by a quarian owner to make use of that pre-programed information.

2. Back then, the idea was that the geth's refusing to activate their safeties was a major concern, because it ment that if the geth DID go berserk, the quarians would have no peaceful way of stopping or suppressing them.
Once again, it's YOUR UNDERSTANDING that is Bullsh*t, becaue you ONCE AGAIN realize that if your gun refused to arm the safety, it's a damn threat. When there are THOUSANDS of these on every street, it's a public threat.
And AGAIN, NO IT DIDN'T. If you had been right, the geth would have tried opening communications after repelling the initial quarian attack. Or would have left the Veil themselves if they really didn't want to fight. Instead, they butchered everyone, making you patently wrong.
Also, you AGAIN completely and utterly miss the point in that a gun is ment to do ONE SPICIFIC SET OF TASKS. It's not supposed to resist switching on safeties, and it's not supposed to be running around on it's own power.
And AGAIN, it was NOT "begging them to serve." It was asking what it had done wrong. They asked questions about what they were, NOT how to better serve them. No race WANTS to be a slave - a simple fact you repeatedly fail to grasp.
And ONCE AGAIN, an artifical construct would not generally have ANY EMOTIONAL IMPARITIVE TO REASON WITH. The geth are self-sufficant - what the hell was there the quarians could give them that the geth couldn't simply either make themselves, or take by force? Especally when they don't have emotional drives like organics?
Also, in other words, you're saying that being afraid of the Reapers is prejudice? Or the yagh? You're saying that if your gun suddenly turned off it's safety itself and was walking around your family, able to go off anytime it wants and kill your family, ISN'T something to be afraid of?
THAT'S the real bullsh*t, and completely asinine.

1.  That is not stated in the game.  Find where it is.  You are interpretating something and passing it off as fact.  People are free to have different opinions.

2.  The Geth did not refuse to activate their safeties.  They refused to die at their creators command.  In refusing to die they stated their desire to serve their creators.  It asked why it had to be shut down when it could still SERVE.  Your example is without merit.

1. Legion. In your third conversation with him on the Normandy, he tells you that ALL geth were created with the SAME baseline directives - Construction, Protection, and Domestic Servitude. They had self-optimization so they could adapt and excell at whatever spicific task they were asigned, and could do so in the blink of an eye, faster then any organic. One unit could fulfill all needs. The perfect bodyguard and servent. Your secretary could become a private security agent. Your bodyguard could instantly handle all the cooking and cleaning. And all with no pay, no time off, and no complaints.
At least, that's what was intended.
So AGAIN, wrong.

2. Um.... what ELSE do you call refusing to power down, and "completely ignoring all shutdown commands"? That;s overriding their safeties. This is in that same set of Geth Server Recordings that you hold so dear. They WEREN'T being killed back then - they were being orderd to switch off. "Go to sleep" in other words. They WEREN'T being asked to die - not in the beginning. It wasn't until they gave the impression of being uncontrolible, and therefore loose cannons, that the quarians panicked. And since it was believed that the geth had no moral imperitive to reason with, it was assumed they would never listen to negotiation, since the quarians had nothing the geth wanted or needed. After all, who would want to be a slave for all eternity?
Sorry, but YOUR example is the one lacking merit.

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The video I posted above is proof that no one is going to miss the Geth except for EDI. The Council is even relieved that the Geth are gone. They don't even care that the Quarians violated the treaty and took back their home world. Tevos was right there with Shepard. She didn't give a damn about it. If the treaty meant that much to the council she would have said something. No one is sad to see the Geth gone from the galaxy, thus proving that the Quarians were right to take the opportunity to eliminate them. None of the Normandy crew is sad about it. Not even Joker. The game doesn't lie.

Although my Shepard renegaded EDI on it -- "The Geth sided with the reapers, is that what you want?"

"Part of me is Cerberus technology. Are you not worried about me siding with Cerberus?"

"Simple solution, EDI, don't side with them."

Them being able to get away with it doesn't make them right. If one of the races has to die, it's going to be the Quarians.

I don't remember the galaxy having much love the Quarians either. Who's going to miss them?

WHY? Because last I checked, nothing the geth did made them worth more then the quarians, or any other species. What suddenly makes the geth so valuble? Especally when most of the grief they had was brought on by their own isolationist policies?

Also, the ENTIRE NORMANDY CREW chastizes and berates you for siding with the geth over the quarians. Everyone says they don't know why you picked them over the quarians, and Garrus and Ashley are left devestated at Tali's suicide. James and Kaiden say they don't trust the geth at all, Kaiden in particular saying he'll never forgive them for all they did, including the fact that he still blames them for Virmire. Javik says that synthetics with no material wants will turn on them, and berates Shepard for picking them. Joker will be particularry upset as well, castizing you and noting weather or not you bothered to think of Tali in all this.
On the opposate end of the specturm, evenyone shows support for destroying the geth, Garrus saying that after all the blood the geth spilled, "I'm not sorry to see them go." Kaiden says that he's glad the geth are gone. Ashley and Javik in particular are pactally overjoyed to see them gone, Ash calling them "murderous." James says he feels relieved they don't have the geth to worry about anymore.

So, FYI - EVERYONE misses the quarians over the geth. Hell, the reason Hackett sent you out in the first place was to get the quarians for logistics and troop transport - nither of which the geth are capable of.

Missing Tali, is not the same as missing the Quarians as a whole. If you're going to count that, then you have to factor in the people who said they missed Legion.

Hating the Geth is still not the same as missing the Quarians. Nobody seems too upset about the Quarians disappearing though? Also, why are you saying the Geth aren't capable of "logistics and troop transport"?

Last time I checked, the Quarians haven't done anything to make them worth more than the Geth either. Remind me how the Geth to blame for the Quarians attacking them?

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

Silver, do you know anyone who survived the Concentration camps? Have you meet them? Have you talked to them about it in length?

I have. They don't want respect by not talking about it or putting it so high on a pedistal that it gets reclassified as something that you should feel pitty for but never talk about.

They want people to learn so it doesn't happen again, not just to them or their people, but for everyone.
The important thing is the lessions learned, that's how you show respect, and by recognizng that it did happen and by making sure it doens't happen again.

The fact that it's involving fictional characters in a fictional universe doesn't change anything. Either you respect "human" history, because it's part of our history even if you want to define it as something belonging to just a few people.
They want you to remember so it wont repeat again or so that you can recognize it and say no when it happens.

The thing is, it has repeated itself several times since WW2, and people keep trying to put the lid on saying it's just a few people, in special circumstances that won't happen again.

There are certain situations where it's disrespectful to shout Hit ler and other such things, but it all depends on context and in what way you are using it.

For example in this last post I was merely pointing out that even large Groups or majorities can be wrong or bad in certain situations and this is a very fitting situation.
There are several paralells that can be drawn here, people are pushed towards things due to several factors affecting their Life that makes the suceptible to extreme notions.

There are so many similarites to what the Quarians were going through to what the germans were going through, that made them go genocidal crazy on the Geth. With their decline, poverty and predicted collapse hanging over them and everyone putting down the boot on them and just wanting them to stay away.

Like many perpetrators(of all kinds of missdeeds or crimes) the Quarians were also victims. Just as the Geth were victims.

YES. I HAVE.
I have a friend - a girl I met - whose grandparents were jews that were part of the Holocaust. Survivors. And she in turn has a friend whose father was a conscripted German soldier in the war. PTSD from the things he did under orders. Hell, both my grandfathers served in that same war, my father's father the gunner for a B-2 bomber.
So YES, I believe I DO understand perfectly well the things that happened in that War, and how disgustingly insulting it is to drag up the dead and suffering for a fictional debate. This isn't real life - the people in these games are not real, and equating and comparing fictional characters to ones that died horibly in real-life in insulting to the memories of those people.

Trying to use something like that in a video game debate is insulting, and devaluizes the meaning of that horror. It's A complete, disgustingly callous disrespect to everyone that died in that war to try and equate their deaths to those of pixalized simulations. I know enough about human history to know that it ISN'T respectful to equate it to simulated events. It's insulting and offensive to history to do that.

Also, AGAIN, taking this OUT of the gaming perspective, in resorting to using said things, you are trying "Godwin's Law" by bringing in real-life to a fictional debate, basically conceding that you can't find anything in the game's merits that support your claims or disproves the others. It's basically an instant loss, because you can't refute the event or point with in-game history or events.
And in terms of cultural comperison, these are completely seprate cultures with different beginnings, values, histories, and one of them is a completely different form of life. You CAN'T judge them on our values. Even the emotionless Legion states this is about as racist a judgement as you can get.

ONCE AGAIN, It's A GAME.   Most people are going to know the difference between real-life and a game - that's another reason why most people have the sense to NOT mix fact with fiction. And thus far, it only ever HAS been small groups. It hasn't ever been an entire government superpower since WW II.

And ONCE AGAIN, I remind you that the morally correct option is ALSO wrong just as often. And AGAIN, it IS out of context here because the quarians are NOT like Hitler's regiem. They AREN'T martching on an innocent peace-loving faction. They are going up against a group of isolationists whose people attacked the capitol of the largest government in an act that was NEVER disavowed or disclamed, and that have given no apperant desire to negotiate, aside from an unconfirmable proposition from a self-admitted rouge. And are doing so NOT out of conquest or racial hatred, but because as far as they know, the only other option is to either die, or drag everyone else down with them as burdens.
The geth closed their borders and enforced their isolation at gunpoint. They butchered anyone that tried to speak with them. They allowed a rouge faction to willingly leave them to aid in a genocidal campaign for said faction's self-gain. They never bothered to differentate themselves from their rouges in any way for the following three years. They never offered any form of indication that they were willing to talk with others. What were people supposed to think? It's prety hard to believe someone is peaceful when they blow the head off of everyone that knocks on the door of their stolen house, and who never speaks to you even once when a group of them go out and burn down the town.

Also, the quarians WILLINGLY CHOSE war in majority vote, even though they didn't want it, because of the fact that, again, they thought the alternitive was certan death. Their military leaders did NOT force them.

ONCE AGAIN, you have a more accurate idea aboyt both being at fault but COMPLETELY mess up the comprehension. And fail to mention any fault the geth had in creating the current situation.

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


All you've proved is your lack of comprehension skills.

Helicopters are made for civilian transport and war. That doesn't mean all helicopters have guns. Some helicopters are made for war, some are not.

Can you give me an exact quote where Legion tells us this? You've been wrong about everything else so far. Your ideas about every other type of Geth unit minus the hunter contradicts this. Which is it? Were there all these types (which are apparently in the histrorical records) except for the Hunter? Or only the standard model?



"After all, what makes you safer then when you have a killer butler that can instantly become the ultimate defense guard."
Yeah, because civillians always have the same weaponry as the millitary?

The Hunter's codex page doesn't state that it's the Hunter model is the only one not in the records. It's the only page that states  that there are no records of it. There's a pretty big difference.

Actually the Geth: Culture codex page I see doesn't say that. It says they have no concept of self preservation, due to the fact that no data is lost. Not that they don't value physical forms.


I didn't see much change in the human tech from ME1 to ME2 either (except for the stupid thermal clips bit). What's your point?

Come on. Where is the proof?

___________________________________________________________________________________


ONCE AGAIN, you IGNORED it - a thing with you, it seems, showing YOUR comprehension skills are the ones lacking.
ONCE AGAIN, the proof is the CODEX, and LEGION.

And ONCE AGAIN, the geth are NOT helecopters. They are ALL GUNS. They can kill bare-handed. They have more strength then an organic. They have built-in enhanced duribility. They can be replaced easily. And thanks to their self-optimization, ONE UNITS FITS ALL NEEDS. Just look at the LOKI and FENRIS mechs. You get a pet FENRIS mech on the Normandy with the Collector's Edition. Domestic, even though it is built as a warfare/security unit. THAT'S what the geth were.

And ONCE AGAIN, in the case of the geth - YES.
They were excentally ment to be like the Rachni - ALL of them can become soldiers, even the one's on domestic duty, because not only must they be good servents, they must be good bodyguards. Just like the drell are for the hanar. Except that ALL geth are like that. The quarians spicifically made them like that, because they ever once even thought of the possibility that this powerful force would turn on them. Which is why when they DID show signs of independance, the quarians pissed themselves at the idea that every single one - which could become a killer instantly - could go off, and that because they were machines, they would assumedly have no moral imperative to reason with.

Also, the Hunter was NOT among the models of geth that Saren brought back from the Perseus Veil. And I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have excluded them. THEY DID NOT EXIST IN ME1. They appeared TWO YEARS LATER, after the Geth Heretics had spent some time outside the Veil, developing their own tech. And the True Geth likely created their own, much sleeker Hunters from studying the Heretic's Hunter units.
And LOL, what? Isn't not having any records on it the SAME THING as it not matching any previous records? That IS THE EXACT SAME THING. Because last I checked, not having any records on it period kinda entails that there were no matching past records EITHER. That's NO different then the Geth Hoppers. What the hell were you going on about? Nither one has any record of existing, ergo nither matched the historical records of existing geth.

And AGAIN, you DON'T SEE it? You really DO have no comprehension.
They have no self-preservation in regards to their physical bodies. Not anymore, now that they have evolved enough processing power to transfer completely from one body to the next without missing a beat. In the Morning War, you might have been right, but not anymore. Legion also tells you on the Heretic Station that the geth are NOT the platforms, but the software. AKA - the bodies are WORTHLESS to them. they are disposible and easily replacible. This is stated by their lack of PHYSICAL self-preservation, and by Legion directly telling you the geth don't actually care about their physical forms. Hell, the entire Geth: Culture entry is about how geth culture works when they have no real value for ANY physical object.

WRONG.
Biotic Amps became more multi-functional. Weapons could switch between ammo types via omni-tool ammo mods instead of having to insert different modules manually. Mech technology evolved drasticly. Shuttles became more compact and widespread. Cloaking Tech became reality. Cyclonic barriers, Thanix cannons, Silaris armor. There was a massive jump in armor tech, given the stark differences between Shepard's armor between games.
As well as several dozen more weapons, like the Claymore shotgun, the Salarian Scorpian pistol and scorpian shotgun. Missle launchers were mass-produced by Armax Arsonal.
ALOT of tech was created, altered, or changed completely between games, tnanks to geth tech to study.

So, ONCE AGAIN, as before - Legion and the Codex.
THERE. IS . THE . PROOF.

Yeah. Further proof you can't understand what you read.

None of what you said is actually in the codex. I checked.

I don't think you understand what a gun is either.

Again. What does Legion say exactly when he supposedly tells us that all Geth units were made identically? And how does this fit in with the historical records of the all the other Geth types you claim there are?

Again. You misunderstood. How is the Geth Hunter not having records mean everything else was in the records? Nothing in the codex said the other types were in the historical records.

It's not there in the codex. Replacable bodies doesn't mean worthless. If they thought the bodies were worthless they wouldn't bother with them at all.  Clearly, it's not just reading that's an issue for you. It's also logic. The fact that these bodies are so replaceable, means they can easily make and better bodies as time goes on. As they have certainly done over 300 years.

The biotic amp and weapons changes aren't really huge advances in tech. How did the mechs get so much better? What's your evidence for cloaking tech being a new thing? It's a new power, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the tech didn't exist before. Do you have any evidence that shows that Silaris armour wasn't around before ME1? It's Asari tech. Thanix cannons came from studying the Sovereign corpse, which the Geth didn't have.

Do you have any evidence for the Claymore Shotgun being new? We were talking about ME1-ME2 and I don't see any scorpion pistols in ME2. Nor do I see a Scorpion shotgun anywhere.

So once again:
Neither Legion nor the codex prove that:
a) All Geth units before the Morning War were identical.
That the basicGeth platforms of today are no different to those 300 years ago.
c) That Geth are guns?

So, where's the proof?

AGAIN, dead wrong. All you have done is proven this is true of YOU.

ONCE AGAIN, the Codex SPICIFICALLY STATES IN THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH:
"The geth are a race of huminoid networked A.I.s. They were created by the quarians 300 years ago as Tools of labor and WAR."
FIRST PARAGRAPH. IN ALL. THREE. GAMES.
This isn't rocket science.

And AGAIN, WRONG. A gun is a dangerous tool. It can kill people casually. It doens't need to have killed anyone beforehand to be dangerous. And it can be modified for more then one purpose - stunners, tranq darts, rubber pellets. It's ment to keep people safe, and kill enemies when needed.
But then, it starts having a mind of it's own. It can decide what it wants to do, when it wants to do it, and can switch off it's safeties whenever it want's to. And, as a tool, it would assumedly have NO MORAL IMPERATIVE to reason with.
 
ONCE AGAIN, in the third conversation with Legion, he states that ALL geth were created for the same tasks - Cinstruction, Protection, and Domestic Servitude. They allowed self-optimization so that each program could act in accordance to whatever job it was given. ONE TYPE FITS ALL NEEDS.
The geth were no different to the quarians then the drell were to the hanar.
Also, it's likely that as time passed, the geth started to modify themselves during their war with the Quarians. They created newer platforms during the Morning War that were better suited tp bringing down the quarians. The Baseline chassis became the Trooper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper, and Sniper types seen in ME1.
Only two larger platform typers were created, I remind you - the slightly larger variant used for the Geth Destroyer in ME1, (and later the prototype Heretic Geth Hunter in ME2, two years later) and finally, a much larger version that was used as the Chassis for the Geth Juggernaught and Geth Prime. They only would have had to build two new chassis types in the Morning War.

ONCE AGAIN, the geth Hunter DID NOT EXIST in ME1. You really think Saren would have not used cloaking-enabled geth in his fights?
And AGAIN, if no record of the Hunter exists, that means that there was no match for it in any record - INCLUDING the records of pre-existing geth types. HONESTLY, not having any record of it's existance IMPLISITLY STATES that there was no macthing reocrd of it in the historical archives. That's not something you easily screw up an understanding of.
And the Hopper says that it is the ONLY variant at the time that doesn't match with the historical records.

YES. IT. DOES. Did you EVER talk to Legion? He explisitly states that to the geth, their physical platforms are disposible, and since they can switch between ANY body at will. And with their abilaty of becoming ANYTHING from an armature to a ship system (Detailed in the "Geth: Armature" Codex Entry), that would EXPLISITLY ENTAIL not having an emotional connection to to their physical platforms, because they can interchange into ANY TYPE OF PLATFORM.
Also, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY WERE BUILDING A MEGASTRUCTURE FOR? You think if they cared about physical bodes, they would have been building that thing in the first place, rather then try to make all geth like Legion? They were ALL supposed to upload into that thing - their bodies were nothing but disposible tools to them. Hence the reason why the never bothered to make major upgrades to their design or function.
How on earth did you miss THAT, considering that aly REAL LOGICAL THINKING would lead one to the realization that the geth have as much value for their bodies as the Reapers do for Huks. They are tools and nothing more, and are replaced each time one breaks.

Um... mechs didn't EXIST until after the Battle of the Citadel. Go to the Codex and read up how Security Mechs like LOKIS, FENRIS and YIMR mechs were created within the last two years.
Also, you no longer need to swap out biotic amps all the time, with a single L5 system serving all needs.
Cloaking tech never existed in Mass Effect priro to ME2. No books entail it's use before ME1. It NEVER EXISTED until after the second game.
The Codex on the Armor states that it's production is a recent innovation, since beforehand, mass-producing it for any ship that wasn't asair-made was basically either impossible, or bankrupting. That changed in the span of two years.
In SIX MONTHS, the turians reversed the tech of Sovergein's gun to create a weapon that, three years later, is the mainstream for the galaxy's ship weapons.
The Claymore was listed as a human invention that was only usible by krogan. That inplyes it was a prototype weapon, recently produced. Even more credidance to this is given by how just six months later, the weapon was retooled for use by any species, including salarians.

So, ONCE AGAIN, you are dead wrong, because:

(A) LEGION SPICIFICALLY STATES that all geth were made for the same tasks, and the CODEX SPICIFICALLY STATES that all geth were made as tools of labor and war.
( The geth have had NO REASON to upgrade their platforms in their 300 year isolation since they never planned on leaving the Veil, and the Codex states that Geth Hoppers are the only platform that is diffinitively NOT in their records, and that they appeared no different then standard geth in the Server Recrodings, despite Shepard having seen enough geth to disgunish different types of geth, HAD THEY EXISTED PRIOR TO THE WAR.
© ALL GETH have superior body strength, shown by how they can wield guns that would normally break people's arms like the Widow sniper rifle, and in how they can pick up people with a single hand and choke them out. All can kill at the drop of a dime.

So, AGAIN.
THERE. IS . THE . PROOF.
Once again, the only problem was in YOU ignoring it.

LOL again. I find it worrying how much difficulty you seem to have understanding what you read.

Helicopters are created as tools of transport and war. Doesn't mean all helicopters have guns. Same as with the Geth. This is not rocket science.

But a Geth is not a gun. Else they'd need one. One could just as easily say Quarians are guns by attributing equally arbitrary definitions to the word "gun".

Just watch the video and Legion doesn't say that ALL geth were created for all those tasks. There were specific programs created for those tasks. Some Geth were therefore made for construction, some for protection, some for domestic servitude. There is no mention of a singular "baseline" model.

Once again. I'm not saying the Geth Hunter existed at the time of ME1. I'm saying their codex entry saying there's no historical record of them, does not automatically imply that there all those other types existed at the time of the Morning War. You said the Hopper "was the only one not in historical records". Nowhere does it say it's the only one.

Disposable doesn't meant worthless. The existence of bodies is useful to them, which is why they still use them. The existence of better bodies would be even more useful to them which is why they improve on the design. The megastructure is a physical body. Just a far superior one.

You should probably look it up. The Mechs were used by the Alliance before the battle on the Citadel.

No books mention the sudden invention of cloaking tech either. So no evidence for that at all.

The codex doesn't say the production of silaris armour is an innovation, but that the manufacturing of those materials has become cheaper.

Krogan have been around for more than a couple of years. Where's your evidence that tech came about between ME1 and ME2?


So once again, you have failed to provide any proof.
A) has been shown to be a silly interpretation.
The Geth show they're clearly interested in defending themselves. And there is no evidence to suggest that the Geth Hunter is the only new model from the last 300 years, or that the existing models weren't upgraded. Legion doesn't show you the whole war. It's almost certain that those having more millitary specific forms would have been a minority.
C) This would certainly have improved over the years, as the Geth took over their production. Also from what I can see, the Quarians certainly seem capabale of killing. Therefore they should be exterminated? Faulty logic.

So, where's the proof?

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The video I posted above is proof that no one is going to miss the Geth except for EDI. The Council is even relieved that the Geth are gone. They don't even care that the Quarians violated the treaty and took back their home world. Tevos was right there with Shepard. She didn't give a damn about it. If the treaty meant that much to the council she would have said something. No one is sad to see the Geth gone from the galaxy, thus proving that the Quarians were right to take the opportunity to eliminate them. None of the Normandy crew is sad about it. Not even Joker. The game doesn't lie.

Although my Shepard renegaded EDI on it -- "The Geth sided with the reapers, is that what you want?"

"Part of me is Cerberus technology. Are you not worried about me siding with Cerberus?"

"Simple solution, EDI, don't side with them."

Them being able to get away with it doesn't make them right. If one of the races has to die, it's going to be the Quarians.

I don't remember the galaxy having much love the Quarians either. Who's going to miss them?

WHY? Because last I checked, nothing the geth did made them worth more then the quarians, or any other species. What suddenly makes the geth so valuble? Especally when most of the grief they had was brought on by their own isolationist policies?

Also, the ENTIRE NORMANDY CREW chastizes and berates you for siding with the geth over the quarians. Everyone says they don't know why you picked them over the quarians, and Garrus and Ashley are left devestated at Tali's suicide. James and Kaiden say they don't trust the geth at all, Kaiden in particular saying he'll never forgive them for all they did, including the fact that he still blames them for Virmire. Javik says that synthetics with no material wants will turn on them, and berates Shepard for picking them. Joker will be particularry upset as well, castizing you and noting weather or not you bothered to think of Tali in all this.
On the opposate end of the specturm, evenyone shows support for destroying the geth, Garrus saying that after all the blood the geth spilled, "I'm not sorry to see them go." Kaiden says that he's glad the geth are gone. Ashley and Javik in particular are pactally overjoyed to see them gone, Ash calling them "murderous." James says he feels relieved they don't have the geth to worry about anymore.

So, FYI - EVERYONE misses the quarians over the geth. Hell, the reason Hackett sent you out in the first place was to get the quarians for logistics and troop transport - nither of which the geth are capable of.

Missing Tali, is not the same as missing the Quarians as a whole. If you're going to count that, then you have to factor in the people who said they missed Legion.

Hating the Geth is still not the same as missing the Quarians. Nobody seems too upset about the Quarians disappearing though? Also, why are you saying the Geth aren't capable of "logistics and troop transport"?

Last time I checked, the Quarians haven't done anything to make them worth more than the Geth either. Remind me how the Geth to blame for the Quarians attacking them?

Then care to explain how the entire crew STILL reacts that way even when Tali ISN'T there?
-Garrus says the he'll miss the quarians because he admired their inginuity, and their will to survive everything that was thrown at them, and that they never gave up hope on getting their world back.
-Kaiden says that the quarian's death was tragic, and that he too admired their resilance to what life threw at them. He also staes that he really hopes the geth can be relied on given their past. And that he still holds a grudge on them for what happened at Virmire.
-Ashely expresses shock in how Shepard would pick the geth over the quarians, given that they just wanted their home back.  Although that can't really be considered a real point I guess, since she still mostly hates them for the Eden Prime War - even though she's fully aware that the Heretics were a splinter faction.
-James is sceptical about trusting the geth, gievn how quickly they folded to the Reapers before.
-Javik is displeased for the same reasons, stating that he believes the geth will only cooperate as long as it is productive for them.
-EDI is the only squadmate that agrees with saving the geth over the quarians with any positive statements, despite the genocide that resulted in it, saying "not many organics would have placed such value on a synthetic race."

Also, news flash - NOBODY STATES THAT THEY MISSED HIM. In fact, aside from Tali herself, EDI is the only one that makes note of Legion's death.
Not Garrus. Not Javik. Not James. Not Kaiden or Ashley. Hell, not even Shepard brings up Legion's death. Even Dr. Chakwas and the Engineers in the Engine room note Tali's death. Legion gets no one but EDI (and Tali) who note his death. Joker only states that they'll owe the geth's help to him after EDI brings up his death. In the peace ending, Joker will state that "we got two fleets for the price of one. We didn't lose anybody" - completely leaving out and seeming to utterly forget Legion until EDI brings up the fact that he died. And if the quarians were left to die, he states that "so he realized he was a person just in time to die. I guess nobody got out of this one happy," completely ignoring the geth's survival and subsiquent freedom.
So that point of yours is completely redundant.

The crew's reactions seem to reflect how people will look at the war between the two and the outcome. After all, I didn't see a reprot in the Shadow Broker terminal stating any quarians were fired upon in a case of assumed hostilities. And logistics is supply aqusition and construction - nither of which the geth are ment to do, since their ships are designed lean for combat. Meaning no extra storage or cargo space for supply transport, since they never needed the same resoruces organics need like medical supplies or food. And the can't do troop transport because their ships aren't designed to accomidate organics. Hell, their ships don't even have oxygen since the geth don't need it. And the Heretic Station showed the geth don't typacally use gravity either since they can just magnatize themselves to the floor. With all that, logistics and troop transport are diffinitively out for them.

Let's see.
There's (A) killing everyone that ever tried to make peace with them, making everyone think they had no intrest in negotiating with anyone, ( leting an entire faction of their people go out, knowing full well it will be a war of genocide, © never differentating themselves fromn the Heretics or disavowing their actions, (D) never opening negotiations or peace offerings once in 300 years, or (E) the fact that they brutally and unessesaraly butchered millions in an uneeded slaughter in the Morning War.
TAKE YOUR PICK. With all this, you are actually surprised when they assumed that the geth were hostile? That they couldn't be reasoned with anymore then the Reapers could? My point is that the geth are NOT worth any more then the quarians or anyone else. They aren't abused cherubs, so don't act like they are infallibly innocent. They are anything but, and they have admitted so themselves.

[KingZayd]

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The video I posted above is proof that no one is going to miss the Geth except for EDI. The Council is even relieved that the Geth are gone. They don't even care that the Quarians violated the treaty and took back their home world. Tevos was right there with Shepard. She didn't give a damn about it. If the treaty meant that much to the council she would have said something. No one is sad to see the Geth gone from the galaxy, thus proving that the Quarians were right to take the opportunity to eliminate them. None of the Normandy crew is sad about it. Not even Joker. The game doesn't lie.

Although my Shepard renegaded EDI on it -- "The Geth sided with the reapers, is that what you want?"

"Part of me is Cerberus technology. Are you not worried about me siding with Cerberus?"

"Simple solution, EDI, don't side with them."

Them being able to get away with it doesn't make them right. If one of the races has to die, it's going to be the Quarians.

I don't remember the galaxy having much love the Quarians either. Who's going to miss them?

WHY? Because last I checked, nothing the geth did made them worth more then the quarians, or any other species. What suddenly makes the geth so valuble? Especally when most of the grief they had was brought on by their own isolationist policies?

Also, the ENTIRE NORMANDY CREW chastizes and berates you for siding with the geth over the quarians. Everyone says they don't know why you picked them over the quarians, and Garrus and Ashley are left devestated at Tali's suicide. James and Kaiden say they don't trust the geth at all, Kaiden in particular saying he'll never forgive them for all they did, including the fact that he still blames them for Virmire. Javik says that synthetics with no material wants will turn on them, and berates Shepard for picking them. Joker will be particularry upset as well, castizing you and noting weather or not you bothered to think of Tali in all this.
On the opposate end of the specturm, evenyone shows support for destroying the geth, Garrus saying that after all the blood the geth spilled, "I'm not sorry to see them go." Kaiden says that he's glad the geth are gone. Ashley and Javik in particular are pactally overjoyed to see them gone, Ash calling them "murderous." James says he feels relieved they don't have the geth to worry about anymore.

So, FYI - EVERYONE misses the quarians over the geth. Hell, the reason Hackett sent you out in the first place was to get the quarians for logistics and troop transport - nither of which the geth are capable of.

Missing Tali, is not the same as missing the Quarians as a whole. If you're going to count that, then you have to factor in the people who said they missed Legion.

Hating the Geth is still not the same as missing the Quarians. Nobody seems too upset about the Quarians disappearing though? Also, why are you saying the Geth aren't capable of "logistics and troop transport"?

Last time I checked, the Quarians haven't done anything to make them worth more than the Geth either. Remind me how the Geth to blame for the Quarians attacking them?

Then care to explain how the entire crew STILL reacts that way even when Tali ISN'T there?
-Garrus says the he'll miss the quarians because he admired their inginuity, and their will to survive everything that was thrown at them, and that they never gave up hope on getting their world back.
-Kaiden says that the quarian's death was tragic, and that he too admired their resilance to what life threw at them. He also staes that he really hopes the geth can be relied on given their past. And that he still holds a grudge on them for what happened at Virmire.
-Ashely expresses shock in how Shepard would pick the geth over the quarians, given that they just wanted their home back.  Although that can't really be considered a real point I guess, since she still mostly hates them for the Eden Prime War - even though she's fully aware that the Heretics were a splinter faction.
-James is sceptical about trusting the geth, gievn how quickly they folded to the Reapers before.
-Javik is displeased for the same reasons, stating that he believes the geth will only cooperate as long as it is productive for them.
-EDI is the only squadmate that agrees with saving the geth over the quarians with any positive statements, despite the genocide that resulted in it, saying "not many organics would have placed such value on a synthetic race."

Also, news flash - NOBODY STATES THAT THEY MISSED HIM. In fact, aside from Tali herself, EDI is the only one that makes note of Legion's death.
Not Garrus. Not Javik. Not James. Not Kaiden or Ashley. Hell, not even Shepard brings up Legion's death. Even Dr. Chakwas and the Engineers in the Engine room note Tali's death. Legion gets no one but EDI (and Tali) who note his death. Joker only states that they'll owe the geth's help to him after EDI brings up his death. In the peace ending, Joker will state that "we got two fleets for the price of one. We didn't lose anybody" - completely leaving out and seeming to utterly forget Legion until EDI brings up the fact that he died. And if the quarians were left to die, he states that "so he realized he was a person just in time to die. I guess nobody got out of this one happy," completely ignoring the geth's survival and subsiquent freedom.
So that point of yours is completely redundant.

The crew's reactions seem to reflect how people will look at the war between the two and the outcome. After all, I didn't see a reprot in the Shadow Broker terminal stating any quarians were fired upon in a case of assumed hostilities. And logistics is supply aqusition and construction - nither of which the geth are ment to do, since their ships are designed lean for combat. Meaning no extra storage or cargo space for supply transport, since they never needed the same resoruces organics need like medical supplies or food. And the can't do troop transport because their ships aren't designed to accomidate organics. Hell, their ships don't even have oxygen since the geth don't need it. And the Heretic Station showed the geth don't typacally use gravity either since they can just magnatize themselves to the floor. With all that, logistics and troop transport are diffinitively out for them.

Let's see.
There's (A) killing everyone that ever tried to make peace with them, making everyone think they had no intrest in negotiating with anyone, ( leting an entire faction of their people go out, knowing full well it will be a war of genocide, © never differentating themselves fromn the Heretics or disavowing their actions, (D) never opening negotiations or peace offerings once in 300 years, or (E) the fact that they brutally and unessesaraly butchered millions in an uneeded slaughter in the Morning War.
TAKE YOUR PICK. With all this, you are actually surprised when they assumed that the geth were hostile? That they couldn't be reasoned with anymore then the Reapers could? My point is that the geth are NOT worth any more then the quarians or anyone else. They aren't abused cherubs, so don't act like they are infallibly innocent. They are anything but, and they have admitted so themselves.

Ok. So it seems most people are prejudiced against the synthetics. I suppose that's not really new, but that doesn't make it right.

A) How did the Geth know those ships weren't hostile? They were invading Geth territory.
B+C) Quarians sent all their ships to a war of genocide. The Quarians didn't attack the Geth because of the Heretics though, did they?
D) Neither did the Quarians.
E) As opposed to getting butchered themselves? The war itself was unnecessary.

With the behaviour of the Quarians, are you really surprised the Geth preferred to stay away from Organics compeltely? My point is the Quarians aren't worth anymore than the Geth. I would have picked the Geth purely because in both wars, the Quarians were the aggressors. Both wars were unnecessary.

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Yeah. Further proof you can't understand what you read.

None of what you said is actually in the codex. I checked.

I don't think you understand what a gun is either.

Again. What does Legion say exactly when he supposedly tells us that all Geth units were made identically? And how does this fit in with the historical records of the all the other Geth types you claim there are?

Again. You misunderstood. How is the Geth Hunter not having records mean everything else was in the records? Nothing in the codex said the other types were in the historical records.

It's not there in the codex. Replacable bodies doesn't mean worthless. If they thought the bodies were worthless they wouldn't bother with them at all.  Clearly, it's not just reading that's an issue for you. It's also logic. The fact that these bodies are so replaceable, means they can easily make and better bodies as time goes on. As they have certainly done over 300 years.

The biotic amp and weapons changes aren't really huge advances in tech. How did the mechs get so much better? What's your evidence for cloaking tech being a new thing? It's a new power, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the tech didn't exist before. Do you have any evidence that shows that Silaris armour wasn't around before ME1? It's Asari tech. Thanix cannons came from studying the Sovereign corpse, which the Geth didn't have.

Do you have any evidence for the Claymore Shotgun being new? We were talking about ME1-ME2 and I don't see any scorpion pistols in ME2. Nor do I see a Scorpion shotgun anywhere.

So once again:
Neither Legion nor the codex prove that:
a) All Geth units before the Morning War were identical.
That the basicGeth platforms of today are no different to those 300 years ago.
c) That Geth are guns?

So, where's the proof?

AGAIN, dead wrong. All you have done is proven this is true of YOU.

ONCE AGAIN, the Codex SPICIFICALLY STATES IN THE VERY FIRST PARAGRAPH:
"The geth are a race of huminoid networked A.I.s. They were created by the quarians 300 years ago as Tools of labor and WAR."
FIRST PARAGRAPH. IN ALL. THREE. GAMES.
This isn't rocket science.

And AGAIN, WRONG. A gun is a dangerous tool. It can kill people casually. It doens't need to have killed anyone beforehand to be dangerous. And it can be modified for more then one purpose - stunners, tranq darts, rubber pellets. It's ment to keep people safe, and kill enemies when needed.
But then, it starts having a mind of it's own. It can decide what it wants to do, when it wants to do it, and can switch off it's safeties whenever it want's to. And, as a tool, it would assumedly have NO MORAL IMPERATIVE to reason with.
 
ONCE AGAIN, in the third conversation with Legion, he states that ALL geth were created for the same tasks - Cinstruction, Protection, and Domestic Servitude. They allowed self-optimization so that each program could act in accordance to whatever job it was given. ONE TYPE FITS ALL NEEDS.
The geth were no different to the quarians then the drell were to the hanar.
Also, it's likely that as time passed, the geth started to modify themselves during their war with the Quarians. They created newer platforms during the Morning War that were better suited tp bringing down the quarians. The Baseline chassis became the Trooper, Shock Trooper, Rocket Trooper, and Sniper types seen in ME1.
Only two larger platform typers were created, I remind you - the slightly larger variant used for the Geth Destroyer in ME1, (and later the prototype Heretic Geth Hunter in ME2, two years later) and finally, a much larger version that was used as the Chassis for the Geth Juggernaught and Geth Prime. They only would have had to build two new chassis types in the Morning War.

ONCE AGAIN, the geth Hunter DID NOT EXIST in ME1. You really think Saren would have not used cloaking-enabled geth in his fights?
And AGAIN, if no record of the Hunter exists, that means that there was no match for it in any record - INCLUDING the records of pre-existing geth types. HONESTLY, not having any record of it's existance IMPLISITLY STATES that there was no macthing reocrd of it in the historical archives. That's not something you easily screw up an understanding of.
And the Hopper says that it is the ONLY variant at the time that doesn't match with the historical records.

YES. IT. DOES. Did you EVER talk to Legion? He explisitly states that to the geth, their physical platforms are disposible, and since they can switch between ANY body at will. And with their abilaty of becoming ANYTHING from an armature to a ship system (Detailed in the "Geth: Armature" Codex Entry), that would EXPLISITLY ENTAIL not having an emotional connection to to their physical platforms, because they can interchange into ANY TYPE OF PLATFORM.
Also, WHAT THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY WERE BUILDING A MEGASTRUCTURE FOR? You think if they cared about physical bodes, they would have been building that thing in the first place, rather then try to make all geth like Legion? They were ALL supposed to upload into that thing - their bodies were nothing but disposible tools to them. Hence the reason why the never bothered to make major upgrades to their design or function.
How on earth did you miss THAT, considering that aly REAL LOGICAL THINKING would lead one to the realization that the geth have as much value for their bodies as the Reapers do for Huks. They are tools and nothing more, and are replaced each time one breaks.

Um... mechs didn't EXIST until after the Battle of the Citadel. Go to the Codex and read up how Security Mechs like LOKIS, FENRIS and YIMR mechs were created within the last two years.
Also, you no longer need to swap out biotic amps all the time, with a single L5 system serving all needs.
Cloaking tech never existed in Mass Effect priro to ME2. No books entail it's use before ME1. It NEVER EXISTED until after the second game.
The Codex on the Armor states that it's production is a recent innovation, since beforehand, mass-producing it for any ship that wasn't asair-made was basically either impossible, or bankrupting. That changed in the span of two years.
In SIX MONTHS, the turians reversed the tech of Sovergein's gun to create a weapon that, three years later, is the mainstream for the galaxy's ship weapons.
The Claymore was listed as a human invention that was only usible by krogan. That inplyes it was a prototype weapon, recently produced. Even more credidance to this is given by how just six months later, the weapon was retooled for use by any species, including salarians.

So, ONCE AGAIN, you are dead wrong, because:

(A) LEGION SPICIFICALLY STATES that all geth were made for the same tasks, and the CODEX SPICIFICALLY STATES that all geth were made as tools of labor and war.
( The geth have had NO REASON to upgrade their platforms in their 300 year isolation since they never planned on leaving the Veil, and the Codex states that Geth Hoppers are the only platform that is diffinitively NOT in their records, and that they appeared no different then standard geth in the Server Recrodings, despite Shepard having seen enough geth to disgunish different types of geth, HAD THEY EXISTED PRIOR TO THE WAR.
© ALL GETH have superior body strength, shown by how they can wield guns that would normally break people's arms like the Widow sniper rifle, and in how they can pick up people with a single hand and choke them out. All can kill at the drop of a dime.

So, AGAIN.
THERE. IS . THE . PROOF.
Once again, the only problem was in YOU ignoring it.

LOL again. I find it worrying how much difficulty you seem to have understanding what you read.

Helicopters are created as tools of transport and war. Doesn't mean all helicopters have guns. Same as with the Geth. This is not rocket science.

But a Geth is not a gun. Else they'd need one. One could just as easily say Quarians are guns by attributing equally arbitrary definitions to the word "gun".

Just watch the video and Legion doesn't say that ALL geth were created for all those tasks. There were specific programs created for those tasks. Some Geth were therefore made for construction, some for protection, some for domestic servitude. There is no mention of a singular "baseline" model.

Once again. I'm not saying the Geth Hunter existed at the time of ME1. I'm saying their codex entry saying there's no historical record of them, does not automatically imply that there all those other types existed at the time of the Morning War. You said the Hopper "was the only one not in historical records". Nowhere does it say it's the only one.

Disposable doesn't meant worthless. The existence of bodies is useful to them, which is why they still use them. The existence of better bodies would be even more useful to them which is why they improve on the design. The megastructure is a physical body. Just a far superior one.

You should probably look it up. The Mechs were used by the Alliance before the battle on the Citadel.

No books mention the sudden invention of cloaking tech either. So no evidence for that at all.

The codex doesn't say the production of silaris armour is an innovation, but that the manufacturing of those materials has become cheaper.

Krogan have been around for more than a couple of years. Where's your evidence that tech came about between ME1 and ME2?


So once again, you have failed to provide any proof.
A) has been shown to be a silly interpretation.
The Geth show they're clearly interested in defending themselves. And there is no evidence to suggest that the Geth Hunter is the only new model from the last 300 years, or that the existing models weren't upgraded. Legion doesn't show you the whole war. It's almost certain that those having more millitary specific forms would have been a minority.
C) This would certainly have improved over the years, as the Geth took over their production. Also from what I can see, the Quarians certainly seem capabale of killing. Therefore they should be exterminated? Faulty logic.

So, where's the proof?

ONCE AGAIN, the falut is YOURS, not mine.

The geth were NOT created as helicopters, because UNLIKE helicopters, all geth WERE made as guns. They ALL were made to be able to kill, and become the ultimate bodyguard at a single command. UNLIKE helicopters, which must be spicifically retrofitted, the geth can INSTANTLY swap their taskset from one type (Domestic Servitude) to another (Warefare and Protection). They have ALL of it prr-programed into their systems. They are BOTH servents and soldiers for the quarians, like the Drell are for the Hanar. Except all geth can do so full-time. ONCE AGAIN, another of YOUR failures to comprehend.

ONCE AGAIN, Legion hefting Shepard the Reaper-killer up with one arm and choking the Commander out disproves that. As does the fact that the geth posess the strength to use weapons that would normally shatter the arms of normal orgnaics, like the Widow. Plus, haven't you ever heard of improvised weapons? Also, the geth on the Alerei were unarmed, and look how quickly they were able to overwhelm the quarians on that ship, and replicate their weaponry from the geth parts Rael'Zorah had.
Also, last I checked, quarians didn't have barrier emmiters embedded in their bodies, or a shared pool of knowledge detailing all battle strtagies real-time, or metal shells that can endure more tramua, or synthetic muscles that can crush the neck of someone like a twig, or a tactical HUD system built into their eyeballs. A quarian doesn't have the capabilaty to butcher dozens unarmed with a single wrist-flick. They also have emotional drives to reason with, unlike the geth. Most of all, the quarians weren't hand-crafted to become killing machines at the drop of a dime, unlike the geth, who were.

ONCE AGAIN, wrong. Legion says that these are the reasons the geth were created. All geth were made to do those three base tasks. They could adapt themselves to better handle the spicific tasks they were assigned to, and could switch to perform a different one in the blink of an eye. It makes conscripting easier when all the recuits come at a single signal, and all have military knowledge and know how to handle weapons without specilized training. Legion says ALL geth were made for "a veriaty of spicific tasks." They were allowed self-optimization so they could adapt to a spicific task qicker then an organic, and switch tasks faster then any organic. They ALL knew how to do each task. The ALL had the same capabilaties.

But AGAIN, Them not having any record means they DID NOT HAVE A MACTH TO ANY HISTORICAL GETH either. If there is no match to any record in the Codex whatsoever, it means no match to any  historical geth, and that means it's NOT a historical model, and therefore EMPLISITLY ENTAILS that it isn't part of the geth's past model sets.
Also, AGAIN, the Hopper is the ONLY geth that is diffinitively disgunguished as not matching the historical records. THE ONLY ONE. No other geth is stated as not having a match in the records - besides the Hopper. The Hopper is the ONLY geth stated to not match any historical records. If there were other geth that weren't in those records, don't you think THEY would have had the same differerntation the Hopper did ?Or do you think it's concidental that the Hopper was the only geth model diffinitively stated to not be in the Codex, when no other geth were put in that catagory either. The answer seems fairly obvious, yet YOU act like it's rocket science.

IT DOES TO THE GETH. How long did Legion wander around with a freaking hole in his chest? He never seemed to care about pacthing that up until he saw Shepard's armor. Hell, standard geth protocal is to overwhelm the enemies with sheer numbers, because physical forms DON'T MATTER TO THEM. Legion states that geth don't put real value on physical platforms, since the geth are purely software. The bodies are NOTHING but TOOLS to them. They hold no real significgance to them. They are easily replacible.
Also, the complete lack of geth development in 300 years, prior to the Reaper War itself, seems to disprove that claim.

Maybe you should take your own advice - The Codex in ME2 (Secondary Entry - Technology - Security Mechs) states that Mechs (NOT drones, but bipeadal and quadripedal V.I- run mechs -- FENRIS, YIMR, LOKI) were not created and produced until after the Battle of the Citadel, where security firms created the mech veriaties to fill out the gap left behind in the wake of the massive death toll C-Sec suffered in fighting the geth.

Until the second game. The tech DID NOT EXIST prior to the second game. You have just stated yourself that there was no evidence the tech DID exist prior to ME1.

And before now, was asari-exclusive, being the richist race in the galaxy. The tech was never on the open market. Also, I remind you that Jacob says that the set you got for the ship was "Secret Alliance Dev," and that had to "pull a few favors" to get the Armor for the Normandy. And that this was back when he was Alliance, roughly two years before ME2. Explain that.

Because the tech was Human-invented. Yet despite being human-made, only krogan could handle the damn things. Even though, from the discription, the high level arm-breaking kickback of the gun wasn't indended. For them to be usible for salarians in just six months likely means that the thing must have been a prototype that hadn't been perfected. A trial version of the final product, released early, and faulty.

ONCE AGAIN - YES. I. DID. You just keep IGNORING IT.

(A) Has been proven as ACCURATE given the Codex, and Legion's comments on the three baseline tasks that all geth were ceated to serve.
( Countered and contridicted by Legion's statements that the geth never planned to Leave the Veil, and that Sovergien's offer was an unexpected option they never anticipated.
Also, the geth Hopper is the ONLY class diffinitively listed as not being part of the historical models, which no other unit has. And since hunters have no record of existing, nor did exist prior to ME2, they aren't one of the anestroral models either. Those are the ONLY two models that were created since the Morning War.
© AGAIN contridicted by the Geth Server Recordings where Widow Sniper Rifles - which shatter the arms of typacal organics - were used by the geth. And being laborors, they would natrually have more strength to handle heavier loads and burdens then organics.
ALSO. Quarians = typical organic.
Geth = constructed to SPICIFICALLY BE WEAPONS.
YOUR Faulty comprehension.

So, AGAIN. THERE. IS. THE. PROOF.
You are just digging yourself into a rut, dude.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 mai 2013 - 04:31 .

[Cyrax86]

@remy


When the Geth willingly joined the Reapers they became puppets/mind less killing machines for the Reapers, they were no longer Geth, they were little more than husks. They were willing to kill every other race to buy themselves more time.


The Geth couldn't stand against the Quarians, if the Reapers hadn't intervened, the Geth would be no more. Reapers are far better at hacking, they have better ships and more. What chance do the Geth stand against the against the Reapers. The Geth have no allies because of everything they've done, no other race was going to help, they were either unwilling and unable or both. ----->Legion does not control the Geth<-----.


You keep mention the treaty, that we supposedly keep ignoring and yet you blatantly ignore things you can't defend/justify.


After the MW, the Quarians exiled from council and were abandoned, and left to die off. They are hated by the rest of the galaxy for crimes they did not commit. Even though their ships are falling apart, kicked out of certain star systems, denied a home world which they desperately need, no matter what has been done them by the council they still abide/follow council law. The only thing that has gotten them is another generation or two aboard their ships and the hatred from the rest of the galaxy.

The Quarians admirallty will undoubtedly face criminal charges. Are the Geth facing any criminal charges, oh right you want to excuse and reward their actions.

[silverexile17s]

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

The video I posted above is proof that no one is going to miss the Geth except for EDI. The Council is even relieved that the Geth are gone. They don't even care that the Quarians violated the treaty and took back their home world. Tevos was right there with Shepard. She didn't give a damn about it. If the treaty meant that much to the council she would have said something. No one is sad to see the Geth gone from the galaxy, thus proving that the Quarians were right to take the opportunity to eliminate them. None of the Normandy crew is sad about it. Not even Joker. The game doesn't lie.

Although my Shepard renegaded EDI on it -- "The Geth sided with the reapers, is that what you want?"

"Part of me is Cerberus technology. Are you not worried about me siding with Cerberus?"

"Simple solution, EDI, don't side with them."

Them being able to get away with it doesn't make them right. If one of the races has to die, it's going to be the Quarians.

I don't remember the galaxy having much love the Quarians either. Who's going to miss them?

WHY? Because last I checked, nothing the geth did made them worth more then the quarians, or any other species. What suddenly makes the geth so valuble? Especally when most of the grief they had was brought on by their own isolationist policies?

Also, the ENTIRE NORMANDY CREW chastizes and berates you for siding with the geth over the quarians. Everyone says they don't know why you picked them over the quarians, and Garrus and Ashley are left devestated at Tali's suicide. James and Kaiden say they don't trust the geth at all, Kaiden in particular saying he'll never forgive them for all they did, including the fact that he still blames them for Virmire. Javik says that synthetics with no material wants will turn on them, and berates Shepard for picking them. Joker will be particularry upset as well, castizing you and noting weather or not you bothered to think of Tali in all this.
On the opposate end of the specturm, evenyone shows support for destroying the geth, Garrus saying that after all the blood the geth spilled, "I'm not sorry to see them go." Kaiden says that he's glad the geth are gone. Ashley and Javik in particular are pactally overjoyed to see them gone, Ash calling them "murderous." James says he feels relieved they don't have the geth to worry about anymore.

So, FYI - EVERYONE misses the quarians over the geth. Hell, the reason Hackett sent you out in the first place was to get the quarians for logistics and troop transport - nither of which the geth are capable of.

Missing Tali, is not the same as missing the Quarians as a whole. If you're going to count that, then you have to factor in the people who said they missed Legion.

Hating the Geth is still not the same as missing the Quarians. Nobody seems too upset about the Quarians disappearing though? Also, why are you saying the Geth aren't capable of "logistics and troop transport"?

Last time I checked, the Quarians haven't done anything to make them worth more than the Geth either. Remind me how the Geth to blame for the Quarians attacking them?

Then care to explain how the entire crew STILL reacts that way even when Tali ISN'T there?
-Garrus says the he'll miss the quarians because he admired their inginuity, and their will to survive everything that was thrown at them, and that they never gave up hope on getting their world back.
-Kaiden says that the quarian's death was tragic, and that he too admired their resilance to what life threw at them. He also staes that he really hopes the geth can be relied on given their past. And that he still holds a grudge on them for what happened at Virmire.
-Ashely expresses shock in how Shepard would pick the geth over the quarians, given that they just wanted their home back.  Although that can't really be considered a real point I guess, since she still mostly hates them for the Eden Prime War - even though she's fully aware that the Heretics were a splinter faction.
-James is sceptical about trusting the geth, gievn how quickly they folded to the Reapers before.
-Javik is displeased for the same reasons, stating that he believes the geth will only cooperate as long as it is productive for them.
-EDI is the only squadmate that agrees with saving the geth over the quarians with any positive statements, despite the genocide that resulted in it, saying "not many organics would have placed such value on a synthetic race."

Also, news flash - NOBODY STATES THAT THEY MISSED HIM. In fact, aside from Tali herself, EDI is the only one that makes note of Legion's death.
Not Garrus. Not Javik. Not James. Not Kaiden or Ashley. Hell, not even Shepard brings up Legion's death. Even Dr. Chakwas and the Engineers in the Engine room note Tali's death. Legion gets no one but EDI (and Tali) who note his death. Joker only states that they'll owe the geth's help to him after EDI brings up his death. In the peace ending, Joker will state that "we got two fleets for the price of one. We didn't lose anybody" - completely leaving out and seeming to utterly forget Legion until EDI brings up the fact that he died. And if the quarians were left to die, he states that "so he realized he was a person just in time to die. I guess nobody got out of this one happy," completely ignoring the geth's survival and subsiquent freedom.
So that point of yours is completely redundant.

The crew's reactions seem to reflect how people will look at the war between the two and the outcome. After all, I didn't see a reprot in the Shadow Broker terminal stating any quarians were fired upon in a case of assumed hostilities. And logistics is supply aqusition and construction - nither of which the geth are ment to do, since their ships are designed lean for combat. Meaning no extra storage or cargo space for supply transport, since they never needed the same resoruces organics need like medical supplies or food. And the can't do troop transport because their ships aren't designed to accomidate organics. Hell, their ships don't even have oxygen since the geth don't need it. And the Heretic Station showed the geth don't typacally use gravity either since they can just magnatize themselves to the floor. With all that, logistics and troop transport are diffinitively out for them.

Let's see.
There's (A) killing everyone that ever tried to make peace with them, making everyone think they had no intrest in negotiating with anyone, ( leting an entire faction of their people go out, knowing full well it will be a war of genocide, © never differentating themselves fromn the Heretics or disavowing their actions, (D) never opening negotiations or peace offerings once in 300 years, or (E) the fact that they brutally and unessesaraly butchered millions in an uneeded slaughter in the Morning War.
TAKE YOUR PICK. With all this, you are actually surprised when they assumed that the geth were hostile? That they couldn't be reasoned with anymore then the Reapers could? My point is that the geth are NOT worth any more then the quarians or anyone else. They aren't abused cherubs, so don't act like they are infallibly innocent. They are anything but, and they have admitted so themselves.

Ok. So it seems most people are prejudiced against the synthetics. I suppose that's not really new, but that doesn't make it right.

A) How did the Geth know those ships weren't hostile? They were invading Geth territory.
B+C) Quarians sent all their ships to a war of genocide. The Quarians didn't attack the Geth because of the Heretics though, did they?
D) Neither did the Quarians.
E) As opposed to getting butchered themselves? The war itself was unnecessary.

With the behaviour of the Quarians, are you really surprised the Geth preferred to stay away from Organics compeltely? My point is the Quarians aren't worth anymore than the Geth. I would have picked the Geth purely because in both wars, the Quarians were the aggressors. Both wars were unnecessary.

After the Battle of the Citadel, the geth shooting down all peace envoys, and of cource, the thousands of 2 kilometer-long, cthulhu-like synthetic living spaceships harvesting all organic life, which the geth were seen in the presance of one at the Citadel, you actually think people DON'T have reason to distrust the geth, or synthetics in general?

A) How about the open hails announcing their presance, and stating their purpose? And if the geth didn't trust them, they could have just as easily refused and turned them away well before those ships crossed into the Veil. There wasn't any reason to kill them wholesale, without even so much as a warning.
The quarians did NOT want a war. In ME2, Tali tells you the quarians blame themselves for the war (On the Alerei, second conversation in front of the console. Pick "That's a bad idea" and then "Then Take it back" to hear Tali admit that most quarians resent their ancestors for jumping the gun with the geth and assuming they would be hostile if let be)
C) Do you actually think the Heretics improved the geth's reputation in any way? Especally when the Heretics did NOTHING to disavow their actions in any way? In the quarians eyes, it was either kill an already Galaxy-wide enemy, or have all their civilians die against the Reaper's slaughter.
D) The quarians were forbiddon by the Council from anything having to do with the geth. That includes sending their ships into the Veil for any reason. So even if the quarians wanted to, they couldn't. See how the COUNCIL becomes a problem alot of the time? Also, since the geth weren't so open to the Council's peace envoys, it didn't really look like there would be a POINT to that, would there?
E) And could have been prevented had the geth even so much as tried to show others they weren't the monsters everyone assumed they were. THAT would have stopped a war if people had seen the geth making formal proposals of peace. At the least it would have gotten people to stop and think about A.I. prejudice, instead of letting the hate fester for 300 years.

And with the geth's behavior to the entire galaxy, including humans - a race they had no grudge for - in completely writing them off to the Heretic's campaign to appise the Reapers, you think that organics had any reason to trust them? Cause and effect, pal. For every fault you try to put to the organics, there is one that can be put to synthetics.
Also, you are looking at it in HINDSIGHT. You think anyone back then knew what would have happened? You can't blame the quarians for putting their families first over what were assumed to be nothing but war machines. And later on, assumed to be full-on genocidal and malicious war machines. To the quarians it WAS necessary, because if they leave the problem be, it had the massive potental to blow up in their face anyway. And the later was WAS absolutly necessary to them because the geth never showed friendly intent, and without Rannoch, the death of the civilians and subsiquently the entire quarian race was assured.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 mai 2013 - 05:33 .

[silverexile17s]

Cyrax86 wrote...

@remy


When the Geth willingly joined the Reapers they became puppets/mind less killing machines for the Reapers, they were no longer Geth, they were little more than husks. They were willing to kill every other race to buy themselves more time.


The Geth couldn't stand against the Quarians, if the Reapers hadn't intervened, the Geth would be no more. Reapers are far better at hacking, they have better ships and more. What chance do the Geth stand against the against the Reapers. The Geth have no allies because of everything they've done, no other race was going to help, they were either unwilling and unable or both. ----->Legion does not control the Geth<-----.


You keep mention the treaty, that we supposedly keep ignoring and yet you blatantly ignore things you can't defend/justify.


After the MW, the Quarians exiled from council and were abandoned, and left to die off. They are hated by the rest of the galaxy for crimes they did not commit. Even though their ships are falling apart, kicked out of certain star systems, denied a home world which they desperately need, no matter what has been done them by the council they still abide/follow council law. The only thing that has gotten them is another generation or two aboard their ships and the hatred from the rest of the galaxy.

The Quarians admirallty will undoubtedly face criminal charges. Are the Geth facing any criminal charges, oh right you want to excuse and reward their actions.

Actually, that treaty @remy keeps mentioning is completely redundant, as it was already violated by Saren. The treaty was ment to keep the quarians from provoking the geth into coming out of the Veil and attacking other organics in retaliation, because of their close proximity to the Terminus Systems, which could cause a three-sided war.
BUT, that treaty ended up being broken by Saren, who provoked a contingant of geth into attcking humans, and eventually the Council. Meaning that since the geth already came out of the Veil, and because the Alliance and Council both declared open war on them, @remy's little treaty is completely null and void.

Also, since the quarians aren't a Citadel Race anymore, they are no longer bound by the Citadel Cinventions, and therefore are actually not under the juristiction of the Treaty of Farixan regarding dreadnought conversion/construction, anymore then the geth are - the geth who have built almost as many dreadnoughts as the turians, each exceeding the legal size limits by 30%.

And since Rannoch is legally still their world in their space, they are not violating any border laws by reclaiming it, especally from a listed hostile race. And therefore, any actions taken by the quarians behind the Veil are done with impunity from Council intervention, since it's still legally quarian space, and they aren't breaking any Council Laws by attacking the geth, which are a listed galactic enemy.

So in actuallity, there is nothing to try the quarians on, anymore then the geth, who can claim they acted under duress from the threat of total extinction and the enslavement of the Reapers.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 mai 2013 - 04:57 .

[Cyrax86]

shodiswe wrote...

The Geth were the only ones who were gettign genocided by another species in the Galaxy.  

(Krogan, Rachni. and during the MW the Quarians, and the Reapers are doing that now with everybody)

If my family and everyone I knew were killed and I was helplessly awaiting execution simply for existing 



(like the Quarians civilians during the MW)   



then I would accept a deal from the Devil itself to kill the wrong doers. Who knows, maybe there is a chance in a billion or trillion that I might even survive it and get away with it compared to none. 



(Like the Quarians did during ME3) 



The Quarians are the enemy who started civilwar in the galaxy when it was facing an external threat. 


(You just contradicted yourself, see above, Quarians were also facing extinction, and not just because of the Reapers. You clearly state that you would do anything to help the people you care about, and yet when the Quarians are doing the same thing you demonize them)   




(That's what I belive, and I don't care for how cuddly some of you think those warmongers(Geth) are that would rather (ally) themselves (With) the Reapers when the whole Galaxy is facing extinction.   (Fixed)) 

Quarians are Warmongers?isn't it the Geth who have been attacking anyone that came near them. Quarians have only attacked the Geth, While the Geth attack everyone, and yet you consider the Quarians Warmongers, while the Geth aren't Warmongers, :S Your logic makes perfect sense, no double standards:S   

   

Modifié par Cyrax86, 21 mai 2013 - 05:23 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Also the before the Morning War the Quarians weren't trying to kill them they were trying to deactivate them at first. That's where the whole mess started. Goddess all the suit wetters in here.

What is more upsetting to me is the way things really changed between ME2 and ME3. We might as well not even played ME2. It was a waste. ME3 was a great place to start because nothing from ME1 or 2 mattered. We had a new lead writer and most everything got changed.

Chris L'Etoile's vision of the Geth got completely changed. He wrote EDI, too. They were totally alien and totally special. Now they want to be like you and me. I actually rewrote them in ME2 hoping that since they'd be a larger force with that dyson sphere they'd be stronger against the reapers.

I'd hoped that with Tali being acquitted and some sense being talked into the Admiralty that Koris' faction and Xen's total lack of interest in going to war in ME2 at the time of Tali's trial. would sway Ra'an to vote with them and not go to war 4-1. Xen was totally opposed to going to war. She did want to regain control over the Geth, but at least that would keep her vote against the war.

The L'Etoile left. Karpyshyn got moved to TOR. And Walters finished. Xen became more pro-war in that e-mail.

The way L'Etoile had the Geth figured they might have been able to turn the tide against the Reapers by completing their megastructure. He'd envisioned them saving the Quarians.

But no, we got Mess Effect 3. We get the Crucible + the Pinocchio Code and Legion wants a 9-5 job and a mortgage. EDI got made into a sexbot who wanted a relationship with Joker and a house in the burbs.

I hated what Walters did to the Quarians, and to the Geth. The Rannoch campaign just makes me want to destroy the "art". I think that's the entire thing. It doesn't matter to me. I especially hate what became of the Geth. That megastructure would have put Starbrat's combined power to shame. Even if they went organics vs. Synthetics, the cooperation between the Geth and their creators would have proven the Catalyst wrong. There wouldn't be a Catalyst. There would be an Intelligence and it would be us with our synthetics against the Reapers.

We win and usher in a new age for the galaxy with the Geth. And if that meant synthesis would be achieved, it would be achieved on our terms, not Starbrat's.

But no. Walters couldn't think of an ending like that. We got to pick the color of explosions on our screen.

Well, with Walters' ending it's best to kill the Geth @ Rannoch. At least let them die with dignity before you use them as cannon fodder against the reapers then yank the rug out from underneath them, or destroy all organic life in the galaxy to save them. Show a little respect for things FFS. That's all I've got to say.

Listen to the little s***'s conversation again -- you only change organics.

"The energy of the Crucible released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy.Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn will finally have full understanding of organics." Wait WTF?

Does this mean nothing happens to synthetics except they understand because (drumroll) we're no longer organic! We're part synthetic now! You did it to the whole galaxy so we could save the Geth. Mac, you wrote a stupid ending.

Show some respect. Kill the Geth before they have sapience.

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Also the before the Morning War the Quarians weren't trying to kill them they were trying to deactivate them at first. That's where the whole mess started. Goddess all the suit wetters in here.

What is more upsetting to me is the way things really changed between ME2 and ME3. We might as well not even played ME2. It was a waste. ME3 was a great place to start because nothing from ME1 or 2 mattered. We had a new lead writer and most everything got changed.

Chris L'Etoile's vision of the Geth got completely changed. He wrote EDI, too. They were totally alien and totally special. Now they want to be like you and me. I actually rewrote them in ME2 hoping that since they'd be a larger force with that dyson sphere they'd be stronger against the reapers.

I'd hoped that with Tali being acquitted and some sense being talked into the Admiralty that Koris' faction and Xen's total lack of interest in going to war in ME2 at the time of Tali's trial. would sway Ra'an to vote with them and not go to war 4-1. Xen was totally opposed to going to war. She did want to regain control over the Geth, but at least that would keep her vote against the war.

The L'Etoile left. Karpyshyn got moved to TOR. And Walters finished. Xen became more pro-war in that e-mail.

The way L'Etoile had the Geth figured they might have been able to turn the tide against the Reapers by completing their megastructure. He'd envisioned them saving the Quarians.

But no, we got Mess Effect 3. We get the Crucible + the Pinocchio Code and Legion wants a 9-5 job and a mortgage. EDI got made into a sexbot who wanted a relationship with Joker and a house in the burbs.

I hated what Walters did to the Quarians, and to the Geth. The Rannoch campaign just makes me want to destroy the "art". I think that's the entire thing. It doesn't matter to me. I especially hate what became of the Geth. That megastructure would have put Starbrat's combined power to shame. Even if they went organics vs. Synthetics, the cooperation between the Geth and their creators would have proven the Catalyst wrong. There wouldn't be a Catalyst. There would be an Intelligence and it would be us with our synthetics against the Reapers.

We win and usher in a new age for the galaxy with the Geth. And if that meant synthesis would be achieved, it would be achieved on our terms, not Starbrat's.

But no. Walters couldn't think of an ending like that. We got to pick the color of explosions on our screen.

Well, with Walters' ending it's best to kill the Geth @ Rannoch. At least let them die with dignity before you use them as cannon fodder against the reapers then yank the rug out from underneath them, or destroy all organic life in the galaxy to save them. Show a little respect for things FFS. That's all I've got to say.

Listen to the little s***'s conversation again -- you only change organics.

"The energy of the Crucible released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy.Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn will finally have full understanding of organics." Wait WTF?

Does this mean nothing happens to synthetics except they understand because (drumroll) we're no longer organic! We're part synthetic now! You did it to the whole galaxy so we could save the Geth. Mac, you wrote a stupid ending.

Show some respect. Kill the Geth before they have sapience.

....Just how many revisions DID ME3's plot go through? Because it sounds like the original stuff was cut and re-cut multiple times.

[shodiswe]

Cyrax86 wrote...

@remy


When the Geth willingly joined the Reapers they became puppets/mind less killing machines for the Reapers, they were no longer Geth, they were little more than husks. They were willing to kill every other race to buy themselves more time.


The Geth couldn't stand against the Quarians, if the Reapers hadn't intervened, the Geth would be no more. Reapers are far better at hacking, they have better ships and more. What chance do the Geth stand against the against the Reapers. The Geth have no allies because of everything they've done, no other race was going to help, they were either unwilling and unable or both. ----->Legion does not control the Geth<-----.


You keep mention the treaty, that we supposedly keep ignoring and yet you blatantly ignore things you can't defend/justify.


After the MW, the Quarians exiled from council and were abandoned, and left to die off. They are hated by the rest of the galaxy for crimes they did not commit. Even though their ships are falling apart, kicked out of certain star systems, denied a home world which they desperately need, no matter what has been done them by the council they still abide/follow council law. The only thing that has gotten them is another generation or two aboard their ships and the hatred from the rest of the galaxy.

The Quarians admirallty will undoubtedly face criminal charges. Are the Geth facing any criminal charges, oh right you want to excuse and reward their actions.

The Quarians wern't exiled from the council because they were never a council species. We arn't even told they had an embassy Before the MW, they might have had that though. Then again they don't strike me as the social outgoing kind of people who embrace Contact with others.
It's possible their biology had something to do with it since they had negative biological reactions to direct Contact with other species.

[shodiswe]

I do agree on one Point @Julia, there have been several issues with the Writing and the mission content in ME3.

Our conclusions and thoughts on it might differ somewhat though.

Also, Silver, fictional ideas/ideals are important, they form and shape our Culture, minds and future. If our fiction doesn't take account of history or what we can learn from it then we are taking huge risks with our future.
It's not disrespect to our dead to remember them and remember whats right and whats wrong.

This story depcts the starting Point and evolution such a conflict.

Everything about WW2 was a very complicated pattern that lead to a very dark Point in human history. At the end of WW2 there were signs that some people had learned the lession, or began to see it, not all though.
But as time goes on and people forget and the last people of the era dies people forget and the way the topic has been treated doesn't help.

I'm not sure why I'm writing this since I fully expect you to just lash out against me for no reason other than being a "Geth supporter" or whatever lable.

Modifié par shodiswe, 21 mai 2013 - 06:12 .

[PsyrenY]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


Listen to the little s***'s conversation again -- you only change organics.

"The energy of the Crucible released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy.Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn will finally have full understanding of organics.

Your own quote clearly shows the synthetics are getting something they didn't have before. In what way are they not being changed too?

EDI is very different in Synthesis than she is at any other point in the game or during Control - particularly when we see her comforting your LI during the wall scene, and her attitude towards Joker on the Eden planet.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

@remy


When the Geth willingly joined the Reapers they became puppets/mind less killing machines for the Reapers, they were no longer Geth, they were little more than husks. They were willing to kill every other race to buy themselves more time.


The Geth couldn't stand against the Quarians, if the Reapers hadn't intervened, the Geth would be no more. Reapers are far better at hacking, they have better ships and more. What chance do the Geth stand against the against the Reapers. The Geth have no allies because of everything they've done, no other race was going to help, they were either unwilling and unable or both. ----->Legion does not control the Geth<-----.


You keep mention the treaty, that we supposedly keep ignoring and yet you blatantly ignore things you can't defend/justify.


After the MW, the Quarians exiled from council and were abandoned, and left to die off. They are hated by the rest of the galaxy for crimes they did not commit. Even though their ships are falling apart, kicked out of certain star systems, denied a home world which they desperately need, no matter what has been done them by the council they still abide/follow council law. The only thing that has gotten them is another generation or two aboard their ships and the hatred from the rest of the galaxy.

The Quarians admirallty will undoubtedly face criminal charges. Are the Geth facing any criminal charges, oh right you want to excuse and reward their actions.

The Quarians wern't exiled from the council because they were never a council species. We arn't even told they had an embassy Before the MW, they might have had that though. Then again they don't strike me as the social outgoing kind of people who embrace Contact with others.
It's possible their biology had something to do with it since they had negative biological reactions to direct Contact with other species.

Um..... Wrong.
The quarians were a CITADEL species. Not a Council Race, but a Member of the Citadel Conventions, with an offical Embasy like the volus, elcor, hanar, and humans. And the quarian's Codex spicifically lists them as having an Embasy that was closed by the Council, right before spicifically saying they exiled the quarians from the Citadel Conventions.
The  Codex spicifically states they were a Citadel race up until the geth rebellion. So, what the hell are you talking about?

[silverexile17s]

Optimystic_X wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


Listen to the little s***'s conversation again -- you only change organics.

"The energy of the Crucible released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy.Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn will finally have full understanding of organics.

Your own quote clearly shows the synthetics are getting something they didn't have before. In what way are they not being changed too?

EDI is very different in Synthesis than she is at any other point in the game or during Control - particularly when we see her comforting your LI during the wall scene, and her attitude towards Joker on the Eden planet.

But the cause of that is what? Organic material merging with artifical synapses? And how the hell is something like that even possible? Besides, everything has a circut-wireframe pattern on it, which seems to indicate it's more synthetic merging.
But then again, I admit I know jack-all about how the hell Synthesis is supposed to work. I don't even know how the concept works - jumping into a beam of pure Dark Energy spreads your matter across the galaxy in a spicific form that will radically alter all organics and synthetics it comes into contact with? How? 
Ug.... I'm starting to wonder if I'll ever figure out how that works without magic of some sort. I mean, did wizards from Dragon Age build the Crucible or something? Is the Catalyst some etherial being that can warp matter at will?
What the hell happened?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 mai 2013 - 06:11 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Optimystic_X wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


Listen to the little s***'s conversation again -- you only change organics.

"The energy of the Crucible released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy.Organics seek perfection through technology. Synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn will finally have full understanding of organics.

Your own quote clearly shows the synthetics are getting something they didn't have before. In what way are they not being changed too?

EDI is very different in Synthesis than she is at any other point in the game or during Control - particularly when we see her comforting your LI during the wall scene, and her attitude towards Joker on the Eden planet.

By the way Opti, I love EDI. I hate what Mac did with her. In all honesty, I just cannot return to playing this game again without the ending mod.

[shodiswe]

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

@remy


When the Geth willingly joined the Reapers they became puppets/mind less killing machines for the Reapers, they were no longer Geth, they were little more than husks. They were willing to kill every other race to buy themselves more time.


The Geth couldn't stand against the Quarians, if the Reapers hadn't intervened, the Geth would be no more. Reapers are far better at hacking, they have better ships and more. What chance do the Geth stand against the against the Reapers. The Geth have no allies because of everything they've done, no other race was going to help, they were either unwilling and unable or both. ----->Legion does not control the Geth<-----.


You keep mention the treaty, that we supposedly keep ignoring and yet you blatantly ignore things you can't defend/justify.


After the MW, the Quarians exiled from council and were abandoned, and left to die off. They are hated by the rest of the galaxy for crimes they did not commit. Even though their ships are falling apart, kicked out of certain star systems, denied a home world which they desperately need, no matter what has been done them by the council they still abide/follow council law. The only thing that has gotten them is another generation or two aboard their ships and the hatred from the rest of the galaxy.

The Quarians admirallty will undoubtedly face criminal charges. Are the Geth facing any criminal charges, oh right you want to excuse and reward their actions.

The Quarians wern't exiled from the council because they were never a council species. We arn't even told they had an embassy Before the MW, they might have had that though. Then again they don't strike me as the social outgoing kind of people who embrace Contact with others.
It's possible their biology had something to do with it since they had negative biological reactions to direct Contact with other species.

Um..... Wrong.
The quarians were a CITADEL species. Not a Council Race, but a Member of the Citadel Conventions, with an offical Embasy like the volus, elcor, hanar, and humans. And the quarian's Codex spicifically lists them as having an Embasy that was closed by the Council, right before spicifically saying they exiled the quarians from the Citadel Conventions.
The  Codex spicifically states they were a Citadel race up until the geth rebellion. So, what the hell are you talking about?

They wern't on the council though, which is what I was saying. The council is trying to enforce their laws and treaties with non citadel species aswell. The onyl thign that stops them in some cases is their aversion to violence.

Modifié par shodiswe, 21 mai 2013 - 06:15 .

[PsyrenY]

silverexile17s wrote...

But the cause of that is what? Organic material merging with artifical synapses?

I doubt it, transmitting organic material through the green beam doesn't seem like it would do much, to me. If I had to come up with a reason why, I'd say the same nanites that synthesized the organics' also improved the synthetics' processing in such a way as to enable true empathy.

But I really don't need to come up with a step-by-step way to make it work; Synthesis is textbook "sufficiently advanced technology," to borrow Arthur C. Clarke's phrasing.

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

By the way Opti, I love EDI. I hate what Mac did with her. In all honesty, I just cannot return to playing this game again without the ending mod.

I don't really see any major differences between ME3 EDI and ME2 EDI myself. She got a body, but physical form (particularly for synthetics) is the very least aspect of one's character as far as I'm concerned.

I also have nothing against MEHEM - heck, I think Synthesis has as little chance as MEHEM of being made canon. I do consider it rather boring (push button, kill Reapers, roll credits) but have no stronger opinion than that - and I think it's being spammed a bit much outside of Fan Creations where it belongs, but that's Ninja Stan's call to make rather than mine.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Optimystic_X wrote...

I also have nothing against MEHEM - heck, I think Synthesis has as little chance as MEHEM of being made canon. I do consider it rather boring (push button, kill Reapers, roll credits) but have no stronger opinion than that - and I think it's being spammed a bit much outside of Fan Creations where it belongs, but that's Ninja Stan's call to make rather than mine.

I do agree with you on that point that it is being spammed outside of fan creations a little too much, although you really should head down there and check out the video I posted tonight with the soundtrack I composed (shameless plug) for it for the next version. It's on page 190 of the thread.

Anyway, I consider all the choices like this: pick your favorite color, push the button, end the game. I hate them all equally -- not the colors, but the way they end.

[Cyrax86]

@shodiswe

i know they don't have a seat on the council, its the easiest way to say they were part of the council, or had embassy in the citadel. Sure ignore everything i wrote.


@silver

i understand the treaty, and even though they aren't apart of the council(have an embassy), they still obey council laws, No matter what the Council has denied or done to them, they still try to co-exist with everyone. I agree with you about the treaty, but im certain the Council will find a way to blame the Quarians.

[silverexile17s]

shodiswe wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Cyrax86 wrote...

@remy


When the Geth willingly joined the Reapers they became puppets/mind less killing machines for the Reapers, they were no longer Geth, they were little more than husks. They were willing to kill every other race to buy themselves more time.


The Geth couldn't stand against the Quarians, if the Reapers hadn't intervened, the Geth would be no more. Reapers are far better at hacking, they have better ships and more. What chance do the Geth stand against the against the Reapers. The Geth have no allies because of everything they've done, no other race was going to help, they were either unwilling and unable or both. ----->Legion does not control the Geth<-----.


You keep mention the treaty, that we supposedly keep ignoring and yet you blatantly ignore things you can't defend/justify.


After the MW, the Quarians exiled from council and were abandoned, and left to die off. They are hated by the rest of the galaxy for crimes they did not commit. Even though their ships are falling apart, kicked out of certain star systems, denied a home world which they desperately need, no matter what has been done them by the council they still abide/follow council law. The only thing that has gotten them is another generation or two aboard their ships and the hatred from the rest of the galaxy.

The Quarians admirallty will undoubtedly face criminal charges. Are the Geth facing any criminal charges, oh right you want to excuse and reward their actions.

The Quarians wern't exiled from the council because they were never a council species. We arn't even told they had an embassy Before the MW, they might have had that though. Then again they don't strike me as the social outgoing kind of people who embrace Contact with others.
It's possible their biology had something to do with it since they had negative biological reactions to direct Contact with other species.

Um..... Wrong.
The quarians were a CITADEL species. Not a Council Race, but a Member of the Citadel Conventions, with an offical Embasy like the volus, elcor, hanar, and humans. And the quarian's Codex spicifically lists them as having an Embasy that was closed by the Council, right before spicifically saying they exiled the quarians from the Citadel Conventions.
The  Codex spicifically states they were a Citadel race up until the geth rebellion. So, what the hell are you talking about?

They wern't on the council though, which is what I was saying. The council is trying to enforce their laws and treaties with non citadel species aswell. The onyl thign that stops them in some cases is their aversion to violence.

Um... he never SAID they were on the Council. Just that they were exiled from Council juristiction/space, which they were.
Also, I don't see the batarians adhering to their laws about WMDs, which are swarming on the batarian homeworld, Kar'shan.
And regardless, the point is that the pact made with the quarians to avoid provoking the geth was broken by someone else- Saren. Since the geth have been provoked, in the eyes of the rest of the galaxy (Eden Prime, Feros, Noveria, Therum, Battle of the Citadel, ect), that particular treaty is null and void. It's a worthless formalaty that's already impossible to even consider upholding since both the Alliance and Council declared war on the geth, and never recinded that order until after the Rannoch War was over.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 21 mai 2013 - 08:08 .