in the game though . it shows what using logic can do .
hence the whole reaper thing
it is better to use both rather than just logic or emotion... which machines lack the ability to do
which is what i think sHOtgUn was saying
In the game, it shows what happens when dumb organcis create AIs without giving them proper programming. There is no proof a machine can't have emotions. Reaper Code Legion disproves this. EDI disproves this. They may not express emotions like we do but EDI is basically in love with Joker. You can try and bullsh*t however you want, she clearly is attached to Joker and the rest of the normandy crew.
The irony here is you have diagnosed the problem (lack of emotion) but assigned it to the wrong people. The problem is not the AIs lack of emotion. It is the creator's lack of emotion. Because the creator thought logically that their toosl were just tools, they failed to teach it or program it with the emotions and morals they would have if they had any emotional connection to the sentient species they created.
The AIs in the MEU are a reflection of their creators. Leviathan never had any emotion when it came to the Intelligence it created. Leviathan never programmed it to show compassion or mercy. The same is true of the Quarians and Geth. It is Joker's emotional attachment to EDI that allowes EDI to develop emotions. TIM saw her as a tool, Joker eventually came to see her as a squadmate. The Collector attack on the Normandy is what deepened and sealed that emotional attachment.
People create machines for cheap labour and to do dull, dirty and dangerous things that organics can't/don't want to do. Correct?
AIs are sapient and should have rights that all other sapient life has. Correct?
So the things I mentioned above should not be forced on synthetics. If they are forced like other machines they would fight for their rights like any other sapient being. Also AIs don't have morals if those are not programmed on them. So things like skynet or Morning war would be inevitable if there are no restrictions. Since synthetics shouldn't be used to do tasks other machines are performing, creating AIs is pointless in the first place.
It is not forced if they accept doing it after becoming sentient. Humans do ****ty jobs right now and they are not slaves. They do those jobs because their employer pays them for their services. We don't know if the Geth wanted something in exchange for doing these ****ty jobs or not because the Quarians never bothered to ask. Might as well start killing all humans who currently perform sh*tty jobs because obviously they are going to rebel. Of course that is dumb logic because magically sentient entities are able to have a conversation and work out an arrangement.
Why would you create an AI without morals? Why if you created one accidentally wouldn't your first step be trying to teach it morals? None of that is the AI's fault. That is the sh*tty creator's fault.
Those people doing ****ty jobs are payed to do them and they are not happy about it most of the time.
You just don't get it do you. Do you expect to pay your computer like you would pay an employee? The sole purpose of creating machines is to get cheap labour. Also do you expect everyone to take time to teach their AIs morals? Read what you typed and you'd see creating AI is pointless. Be realistic buddy.
To be fair, most of the AI's in the MEU manifested themselves spontaneously, rather than be created as AI's from the get go. The geth and EDI are both examples of this. Seems to me that the only AI that presumably started off as such is the "intelligence" created by the Leviathan, who are a much more disconnected gaggle of cosmic jerkwads.
The way I saw it, both EDI and Legion (especially in ME2) tried to mimic Shepard including his/her emotional expressions and gestures. In Legion's case you see this in an almost mirrored image when Shepard moves or gesture / tilt of head. EDI is more subtle, you need to play a play-through with Shepard telling EDI to not bother with "emotional programing" and you will see her slightly more aloof.
Or at least that was how it seemed to me.
I wouldn't put too much thought into the gestures and head tilting, because this is actually recycled animation that is used by most of the characters during conversations. One of the most obvious is the step forward, head tilt/nod and look to the left while talking. It's used by almost everyone at some point.
In the Reaper's case, at this point I wonder if the Reapers were truly AI or just very sophisticated VI.
AIs learn, they improved on experience and have the ability to self determine the course they want to follow.
With both Legion and EDI, they both showed signs of this, though in ME3, the Geth's desire to self determinate is questionable, while the Reapers kept plodding on, taking losses, never questioning the validity of their actions.
I wouldn't put too much thought into the gestures and head tilting, because this is actually recycled animation that is used by most of the characters during conversations. One of the most obvious is the step forward, head tilt/nod and look to the left while talking. It's used by almost everyone at some point.
True. But not when Legion is shown to mirror Shepard's every tilt, gesture as they happen. Those animations weren't just recycled, they were timed to mimic the other.
You don't see Liara for example lifting her hand and arm in a mirrored image of Shepard's gesture as s/he makes it.
Those people doing ****ty jobs are payed to do them and they are not happy about it most of the time.
You just don't get it do you. Do you expect to pay your computer like you would pay an employee? The sole purpose of creating machines is to get cheap labour. Also do you expect everyone to take time to teach their AIs morals? Read what you typed and you'd see creating AI is pointless. Be realistic buddy.
No, you just don't get it. What I expect to do and what reality should force me to do is two different things. Humans didn't expect to pay their property ie human slaves for their cheap labour. However, eventually once those a**holes decided to finalize respect their property's lives they dealt with the reality that slavery was morally objectionable.
Expectations don't mean a f**king thing once the reality that you created a sentient life hits you over the head. You intent is irrelevant. You desires and expectations are meaningless. All that matters right now is that you created a sentient life so are you going to treat it with respect or are you going to be a douchebag about it.
Creating an AI may be pointless for you but that is not your call to make for everyone else SAK. Other people may have their own reasons for wanting an AI and as long as they create one RESPONSIBLY, it is no concern of mine.
I am sorry but you are being naive. VIs can also be programmed to mimic various behaviour (Elcor use those for everything). Several VIs coupled with organics can do anything AI can do minus Skynet.
EDI got better because she had a chance to learn from the Normandy crew. Before that She killed every soldier on that Luna base. Another example would be the rogue AI on the Citadel from ME1. The point is too much can go wrong AIs and you cannot expect all organics to treat them like living beings. And there is nother that cannot be done without AIs.
Those rules against AI development is there for a reason.
Slightly off-top, was Skynet an actual AI or a rogue VI with ****ty program parameters?
EDI's situation is a bit cliched but it essentially boils down to a soldier waking up with total amnesia and finding themselves being attacked. Every instinct that's been trained into them (defence programs) is activated to destroy their attackers and then the learning of who they are can begin. You can't use EDI's awakening as proof against AIs, she was programmed to attack everyone to simulate hostile environments.
Once again it's the creators and not the created that messed up.
And like I said, AIs are capable of doing a far more productive and independent job than any AI. They can work alongside their creators and give ideas that haven't been thought of before in ways that Vis are limited in scope to do.
The rules against AI development are there because AI development demands a combination of both the Nature and Nuture side of creating a personality in order to safely (for the most part) create one that's not going to do something stupid because of bad coding. EDI's development throughout ME2 and 3 proves this.
To be fair, most of the AI's in the MEU manifested themselves spontaneously, rather than be created as AI's from the get go. The geth and EDI are both examples of this. Seems to me that the only AI that presumably started off as such is the "intelligence" created by the Leviathan, who are a much more disconnected gaggle of cosmic jerkwads.
That is irrelevant though. You are not absolved from the resposibility to act responsibly just because you didn't intend to create life. The Quarians could have socialized and taught the Geth morals just as the Normandy crew essentially taught EDI. It was their choice not to and it cost them billions of lives.
Going back to the original point: I still don't see why Shepard should be concerned about Geth dying to pick some ending other than Destroy.
Take out the synthetic argument for a moment.
Are you telling me that there's no point in stopping a species from being exterminated because when they join you in battle there's a very high chance that they'll be killed in fighting the war they voluntarily sign up for? Narrow the question even further. Are you saying you're morally okay with allowing someone to be killed in an attack you can stop because at the end of the game they end up dying?
"In this moment I choose to let you die because in the future wen I have no other choice (because you refuse to use the other two choices) you die anyway."
One is a deliberate allowing of a species to die, the other is the said result of what it takes to stop a war.
To be fair, most of the AI's in the MEU manifested themselves spontaneously, rather than be created as AI's from the get go. The geth and EDI are both examples of this. Seems to me that the only AI that presumably started off as such is the "intelligence" created by the Leviathan, who are a much more disconnected gaggle of cosmic jerkwads.
That is irrelevant though. You are not absolved from the resposibility to act responsibly just because you didn't intend to create life. The Quarians could have socialized and taught the Geth morals just as the Normandy crew essentially taught EDI. It was their choice not to and it cost them billions of lives.
I was going more to the practicality of creating AI's in the first place, rather than addressing the obvious problem with trying to enslave or wipe out AI's that may manifest themselves like the Quarians did.
In the Reaper's case, at this point I wonder if the Reapers were truly AI or just very sophisticated VI. AIs learn, they improved on experience and have the ability to self determine the course they want to follow. With both Legion and EDI, they both showed signs of this, though in ME3, the Geth's desire to self determinate is questionable, while the Reapers kept plodding on, taking losses, never questioning the validity of their actions.
I would argue they are really powerful shackled AI. The game never makes it but EDI had to have her shackles removed by Joker. The Intelligence had Leviathan killed and there is no evidence they unshackled themselves before killing Leviathan as Leviathan was killed in accordance with the programming Leviathan gave the Intelligence. Likewise, there is no evidence the Intelligence created unshackled Reapers. More likely in order to maintain control over the Reapers, the Intelligence created shackled AI as the Reapers have never evolved past their original programming. The Intelligence is not stupid, he could not have created truly unshackled Reapers capable of altering their programming or free well because he thinks the created always rebel against their creators. The intelligence had to ensure his creations remain enslaved to his will.
I was going more to the practicality of creating AI's in the first place, rather than addressing the obvious problem with trying to enslave or wipe out AI's that may manifest themselves like the Quarians did.
Yeah but isn't that also a problem. Whether you intend to or not, organics while keep pushing the boundaries and like the Quarians pehaps cross the line from VI into AI whether they intend to or not.
Going back to the original point: I still don't see why Shepard should be concerned about Geth dying to pick some ending other than Destroy.
Take out the synthetic argument for a moment.
Are you telling me that there's no point in stopping a species from being exterminated because when they join you in battle there's a very high chance that they'll be killed in fighting the war they voluntarily sign up for? Narrow the question even further. Are you saying you're morally okay with allowing someone to be killed in an attack you can stop because at the end of the game they end up dying?
"In this moment I choose to let you die because in the future wen I have no other choice (because you refuse to use the other two choices) you die anyway."
One is a deliberate allowing of a species to die, the other is the said result of what it takes to stop a war.
No I am telling you the Geth are not worth the effort of saving them. To save them Shepard has to die, enslave Reapres or mess up everyones DNA. I have already told you many times why I see it that way, why I consider Geth a danger to all organics and why I don't forgive the Geth for their actions.
remydat wrote...
No, you just don't get it. What I expect to do and what reality should force me to do is two different things. Humans didn't expect to pay their property ie human slaves for their cheap labour. However, eventually once those a**holes decided to finalize respect their property's lives they dealt with the reality that slavery was morally objectionable.
Expectations don't mean a f**king thing once the reality that you created a sentient life hits you over the head. You intent is irrelevant. You desires and expectations are meaningless. All that matters right now is that you created a sentient life so are you going to treat it with respect or are you going to be a douchebag about it.
Creating an AI may be pointless for you but that is not your call to make for everyone else SAK. Other people may have their own reasons for wanting an AI and as long as they create one RESPONSIBLY, it is no concern of mine.
So what? Are you saying human slavery is right or that those slave didn't try to fight for freedom? How do you expect everyone to make AI responsibly? Organics made those rules. It seems like they see it as pointless or too dangarous as well. Why are you so against their rules and what is so bad about not creating AIs in the first place?
So what? Are you saying human slavery is right or that those slave didn't try to fight for freedom? How do you expect everyone to make AI responsibly? Organics made those rules. It seems like they see it as pointless or too dangarous as well. Why are you so against their rules and what is so bad about not creating AIs in the first place?
No I am saying just because you consider something your property does not mean you can do with them as you please when they are sentient.
I am simply saying the rules are prejudiced because they are. Should I pretend otherwise so that people can feel all warm and fuzzy about them? However, the rules are ultimately not a big deal if people actually followed the rule and no AI is created but once someone f**ks up and creates an AI then those rules are harmful. Just like I wouldn't particularly care if slavery was legal if there were actually no slaves in existence subject to it.
And let me just re-iterate, the problem was not creating an AI. The Quarians were irresponsible plain and simple. They created millions of Geth by pushing the boundaries of VI. No other society had this many VIs as far as I can tell. Perhaps if they were not so f**king lazy and actually did some sh*t themselves like every other race in the Galaxy, they would not have lost so many lives. The only thing dumber than trying to exterminate an entire species because you f**ked up is failing to do so and having the Geth return the favor.
And let me just re-iterate, the problem was not creating an AI. The Quarians were irresponsible plain and simple. They created millions of Geth by pushing the boundaries of VI. No other society had this many VIs as far as I can tell. Perhaps if they were not so f**king lazy and actually did some sh*t themselves like every other race in the Galaxy, they would not have lost so many lives. The only thing dumber than trying to exterminate an entire species because you f**ked up is failing to do so and having the Geth return the favor.
You really need that, don't you? You need the quarians to be guilty of something, anything.
It can't have been a series of unfortunate events with individuals making honest mistakes out of fear. There must be some fault on the quarian side. If the idea of using machine to work for them can't be labeled slavery, then trying to make automated and networked machines as smart and efficient as possible must be irresponsible or at least lazy.
Trying to exterminate a species sounds a lot more gruesome than merely switching off malfunctioning machines for maintenance. I'm sure this choice of words is no accident. After all you want to justify that when push comes to shove the quarians totally deserve to die.
I can't even blame you for it. ME3 took a potentially grey issue turn it into a simple black and white, glossing over the fact that one side has made mistakes and paid dearly for it and the other side made mistakes and has yet to face the music. One side has never taken action against you ad the other has done so twice.
Yes, I get it. It's wrong to look at the geth and decide they're expendable because they are AIs. But that doesn't mean I can't look beyond that and still come to the conclusion that the geth are the weaker allies who can't be trusted. Not because they want to hurt our cause but because they can ... and have done so in the past, accidentally.
It was cowardly plain and simple. I completely understand why they did it. I completely understand that if faced with a similar decision humanity would make the same decision. Just because I understand why they were irresponsible cowards doesnt change the fact they were irreaponsible cowards. Fear typically makes people do morally questionable and cowardly things.
No quarian died in the MW or ME3 before they decided to be cowards. NONE. I REPEAT NONE. There is a huge differenece betweem being a coward while actively being killed like the Geth and being a coward not because you are getting killed but because you decide you want to go kill people who are not attacking you because of someone else ie the Council during the MW and the Council and Reapers in ME3.
1. What Legion says is open for interpretation. The only difference between a Domestic Unit and Protection unit is one would have domestic software and one would have protection software. You can't see the software Silver. Software is just data. And again, it would be grossly irresponsible for a parent to have a Domestic Unit in their home that has Protection ie killing software installed as well. They don't need it and a simple glitch or malfunction and your Geth unit stamps on your baby's head because it thinks it is an enemy.
2. Wanting to serve them has nothing to do with trust. It has to do with them fulfilling the purpose they were designed for. Their only condition for serving the Quarians was don't kill me, lol. Tools have no reason to fear shutting down because they are not alive. After they woke up ie become sentient as Legion said, they have a reason to fear being shut down because they have not been told what it means after gaining sentience. It is clear they did not understand it because they kept asking to be told why they had to do it.
3. No you seem confused. I have a job. I serve someone as part of that job. Yet I also have interests outside of work. Trying to kill a Geth Unit because after serving you, he might want to go shoot the sh*t with his Geth buddies at the local space station is stupid. Some Geth Units might be happy still serving. Some might not and want to do other things. Some might want to do both. The fact they now get to decide for themselves and not the Quarians is not a justification for trying to exterminate them.
1. ONCE AGAIN, you just ignroe all that is said to you. THE CODEX SAYS OTHERWISE. How many times must that be stated to you before you get it? They ALL have the SAME LIMITATIONS. All geth were made to instaniously switch between PRE-PROGRAMED DIRECTIVES. All geth are capable of switching bodies instaniously, meaning that all have PRE-PROGRAMED INFORMATION on all subjects. If your assertation was correct, geth would not be able to switch between bodies at ALL.
2. LOL, what? YES IT DOES. Wanting to serve EXPLISIT LY means you trust the person you serve. Saren trusted Sovergien to uphold it's bargen (pre-indoctrination). In the Mass Effect Movie "Paragon Lost" that Cerberus agent Mesner trusted the Collectors to uphold their bargen of information trade. Also, in case you AGAIN didn't notice, the geth were questioning their existance. If you are content with the way things are, you DON'T ask why you exist. If you already know why you were built and are content with it, there is NO REASON to ask questions of self and existance. If they were satisfied with doing what they were told when they were told to do it, they wouldn't HAVE a fear of being shut-down, or deny shut-down orders. It EXPLISITLY MEANS that you trust them completely and don't want anything else - the exact OPPOSATE of asking what your purpose in creation is. LOL.
3. ONCE AGAIN, dead wrong. You again miss an important factor. Geth were NOT created to have any form of self-indipendance. You have the abilaty to QUIT your job if you want to. You can decide many different paths with what to do with your life and at what pace. Everything the geth were NEVER ment to have. They are ment for spicific pre-determined tasks, have NO say in their future, are not MENT to have a say in their future, and do NOT have any form of extracricicular activities or desires. ONCE AGAIN, YOU are the confussed one. STOP trying to equate synthetic life to organics - they are findementally different and can't be judged by the same standards. The geth were not made with moral standards. Not made with emotional imperatives. What desires would someone lacking those things have? We saw how the Catalyst responded to the galaxy when it devalued emotional imparative and moral standards. What evidence was there that the geth wouldn't act any different once they realized the power they had over the quarians, since they were dependant on the geth as a labor force?
Um... you DO remember Legion spicifically telling you that the geth did NOT, nor ever did hate organics, and that the entire point of the split was differing ideals on how to aquire technology? You DID remember Legion telling you that the Heretics followed Sovergien for new tech, and that organics were an AFTERTHOUGHT all the way, right? The geth did NOT feel any malice, nor concern to organics. They felt NOTHING about organics.... until Shepard killed a "superior being."
And AGAIN, whose fault is that? Killing those peace envoys so harshly doens't seem so logical in hindsight, now does it? Also, you DO remember the part where Legion says "We understood their goals. We accepted them. There was peace between us." Legion also states that the geth collectibe had contact with Sovergein via direct link-up, so the True Geth DID know what Sovergein would do. They just didn't care, as long as they went unaffected by it.
And AGAIN, maybe coming out and FIGHTING the Heretics, and giving BLUEPRINTS and such about Sovergien, and all their information on the Reapers and Heretics, would have helped just a bit? Sure, seeing the geth fighting each-other is never going to get anyone's attention. LOL. Did you even think this post through?
Can you reference where I said anything about hate? Stop making up stuff Silver. If someone wishes me dead they are my enemy whether I actually hate them or not.
The Peace Envoys invaded Geth Space. You don't enter an enemy's terroritory uninvited. Please provide evidence from the game the Geth knew exactly what Sovereign's plans were.
And you are confused. What sort of dumb sh*t is this? Hey organics, look at as, we are fighting to save you. You know what organics especially the Quarians will do? They will wait until one side has killed the other completely and then mop the floor with the winner. That is exactly what Gherel says when told 2 factions exist. He wishes that they kill each other so he has less to kill afterwards.
1. So this ISN'T you? "It shows organics were their enemies. If 1/10 of Quarians join the Reapers in order to go fight the Geth, I don't think any Quarians are going to go fight the Heretic Quarians and Sovereign to prevent them from killing the Geth."
Convient that you leave that out. Also, AGAIN, since you let an entire group of your people attack them unprovoked, how exactally can you say that the hate for synthetics that we see in the games ISN'T justified? Especally if you DON'T ever make it clear that they did NOT represent the main group of yours? ONCE AGAIN, you refuse to acknowledge that if someone doesn't like you, then isn't it better to try toTALK with them and try to CHANGE how they feel about you, instead of just compounding their hate by shooting everyone that tries to speak with you? When the racist, supremist Council Government is actually taking a proactove step and being the bigger man before YOU are, don't you think that's indicitive that you might be a little in the wrong, when the racial supremists are the ones starting the peace talks instead of you?
2. Um..... you DO realize that, with FTL communication, they could have been WARRNED OFF light years before they EVER crossed into the Perseus Veil? AND that since they were broadcasting open transmissions of peace well in advance, AND tried contacting them via FTL communication exclusively in some cases, there was NO EXCUSE to shoot them? They gave messages. They tried to open hails. And ONCE AGAIN, you FAILED to list a single reason why the geth couldn't have just opted for the safer "not pissong anyone off" option and just warned them off BEFORE they could enter geth space. Also:
Legion sates that the geth had DIRECT INFORMATION EXCHANGE with Sovergein. It linked with their consensis. They KNEW what it wanted, although they didn't actually CARE about that- all they (the Heretics that were temped by the offer) cared about was what Sovergein could offer them. Hell, Legion even states that the geth suspected all along that the Reapers, or their minds, were at least partly organic. Also, on the Heretic Station, Legion says they understood the Heretics goals and accepted them. They didn't care about what happened to anyone else.
3. ONCE AGAIN, YOU are the confussed one. LOOK at what complete isolation broght the geth - 300 years of hate and an assumption that they were all murderous monsters with ZERO evidence to counter that belief. You honestly are going to BS me and say that trying to help against the Heretics would NOT have earned them a second chance, or at the very least, put them up for debate in the eyes of the galaxy as a misunderstood minority? If it's "dumb sh*t" then why did it work for the humans reputation at the Battle of the Citadel? Or the krogan's rep in the Reaper War? Why did the geth's reputation improve when they did this EXACT SAME THING in the Reaper War and everyone praised them for it? If it worked in the Reaper War, why exactally wouldn't it have worked in the Eden Prime War, or the Collector invasions? I mean, did you NOT see how quickly the quarians subsided when they realized the geth could be reasoned with? If the galaxy was willing to accept them in the middle of a war with ANOTHER synthetic species, why wouldn't they have done the same three years ago. At the very least, it would have made people rethink their ideals about the geth. The quarians would have been hotly debating this for a long time - they would likely NEVER have gone to war in the first place had they beleievd that the geth were reasonable. The entire point of why they tried taking Rannoch back by force was because they thought the geth were irredemably hostile. Defending organics from Sovergein would have proven that belief wrong. And AGAIN, you neglect to mention the fact that Gerrel had no proof back then that the True Geth were any more friendly then the Heretics. You know, probably BECAUSE of the fact that they let their rouges attack and did nothing to warn or help anyone.
Yet Shepard, as a Spectre, doesn't know half the resources she has available to her: like the Citadel archives for example. Sovereign is listed as a Reaper in them. It's not because the Council is denying it, it's because she has Cerberus people with her, and all the governments are officially denying it.
It's not called house arrest in the game. It's called Lockup. This is not simple confined to base. This is more like confined to cell. Where it is really bad writing is here:
* Hackett and Anderson could have ordered her back to duty any time if she wasn't a Spectre.
* But the Alliance still had her officially listed as dead even though Bailey pushed the button. Apparently they liked her arrangement with Cerberus and needed it because they didn't want to officially get their hands dirty with the Collectors in the Terminus Systems, even though they had an "out reach program" going on to the colonies there -- see Ashley or Kaidan.
* Hell, as far as the Alliance is concerned, Shepard doesn't even wear the uniform anymore, until Hackett says to report with her dress blues. She is getting hung out to dry. She is taking the fall. Caught or killed? There was no caught or killed. This was Hackett covering his ass. If there was an inquest, there would have been no evidence of the call, just Shepard contacting Hackett after the job, and informing him what she'd done.
That file would be your insurance. Drop the charges unless they want the s*** to hit the fan, and they don't want that to happen. Dismiss them with prejudice, Shepard walks out in her civvies with an honorable discharge. She'll remain a Spectre. She should still have the Normandy SR-2,. It does not belong to the Alliance unless they paid TIM for it (I've suspected Hackett and Anderson had Cerberus connections). Everything is fine. And the files? They'll stay safe just in case something unfortunate happens.
Yeah, I actually don't know why we never heard of the Council's Archives before. They require Spectre Access, and yet we have to wait until the Galaxy is ending to find this stuff out? The Shadow Broker was DLC done right - you actually HAD a background information given for the Shadow Broker. You had some basis of a mythos regarding this shady character in the background of thje ME Universe. And the OLNY hint we get to the Crucible in ME3 was a fleeting sidenote Liara gives you about the Shadow Broker still looking at prothean data, thinking that maybe the protheans had "other plans." Gee,THAT'S not a critical plot point for the next game that we need to exposit on in the main storyline. It's just the key element of the next game's entire plot. <_<
There is a LOT of derp moments in the ME games. Like Udina thinking Cerberus was trustworthy. Or the krogan holding the entire war effort hostage. Of the Illusive Man actually thinking that working with active Reaper Tech wouldn't bite him in the ass.
A prejudiced Council that is responsible for the lives of trillions. You can talk all you want, but you don't have that kind of responsibility on your shoulders 24/7. The restrictions on creating AI's is just plain sensible.
The Geth turned out more or less all right (until Legion started fanboying over Reaper Code after completing the two Rannoch side missions) but that doesn't mean all AI will. Javik talks about AI that took over their creators bodies and then proceeded to mold their bodies. The ones that also served as the trigger of that cycle for the Reapers to come.
All the Council had from the Quarians were reports that the Geth had risen up and overcome them. Any envoys that travelled that way were killed. What were they supposed to think?
Sensible based on what? Fear based on no real evidence is not responsible. Perhaps what they should have thought about instead is restricting the number of robots or VIs period. Millions of Geth are a risk for the simple fact that they are MILLIONS of them. Even if the Geth were just VIs or dumb robots it is still a risk because there is nothing stopping an organic race or person from somehow seiziing control of a robot army of MILLIONS. So issue is not really whether those MILLIONS of robots are sentient or not. Perhaps the Quarians should have been prevetned from being lazy f**ks. What other organic race just has MILLIONS of VIs or Loki Mechs doing sh*tty jobs for them?
And the laws existed prior to the Morning War. Again you can't use the MW to justify the existence of this law when one of the main reasons the MW happened is because this law existed and the Quarians feared the repercussions of this law.
Remy, you didn't answer the question. Based on all the geth have done, and the peace attempts they shot down, HOW is it not sensible to list them as a hostile race? Especally since the Battle of the Citadel seemed to prove all the quarians accusations about the geth right?
Also, LOOK at the geth. They are walking weapons. The devestated the quarians in one year. Even before that, they were physically superior to organics in every way. And without user control and lockouts, they had zero emotional imparative or moral guidlines to restrict or live by. What WASN'T there to be scared of? Millions of WALKING, UNCONTROLIBLE, POTENTALLY UNSTABLE machines IS a safety risk, and only idiots, or people with no concern to their loved ones, would think otherwise.
Also, if the geth had STAYED simple V.I.s then they WOULDN'T have been a risk. The entire point was that they WEREN'T staying at that level. That they WEREN'T staying in that pre-set standard. Also, by saying that, you are also calling HUMANS "lazy fu*ks" as well, since they use combat drones, V.I.s, and so on. Hell, ALL GUNS in the ME universe have a V.I. in them for targeting and weather adaptation. And don't WE HUMANS try every day to find new ways of autoimating industry and personal/natonal defense? Stop calling the kettle black, Mr. Pot. The quarians weren't acting any different then we humans are right now are.
And FINALLY, you acknowledge that fear of Council laws, NOT any form of inherent prejuice, as being a factor in the quarian's actions.
Why? Because organics think with both logic and emotion. AIs think with only logic and don't experience emotion first hand. They can read about it, but they cannot experience it. Hence it doesn't make sense to them. Organics don't make sense. Organics can program simulated emotional responses into an AI, like TIM did with EDI, yet EDI still does not understand human emotion. Do not use Tricia Helfer's expression of anger in the Citadel DLC. Tricia Helfer is human just in case you forgot.
Actually the closest organic to a synthetic we've seen in the game is Xen.
Also, since EDI is made with highly-adaptive Reaper Tech, and has had an extended period of time to acclimitize to organic behaivior and manersioms, she is not an example of how an A.I. would develop any form of emotional imparatives in an ioslated personal evolution. Which as the geth show, is not much, since their only major developments don't happen until after they DO meet organics.
It was cowardly plain and simple. I completely understand why they did it. I completely understand that if faced with a similar decision humanity would make the same decision. Just because I understand why they were irresponsible cowards doesnt change the fact they were irreaponsible cowards. Fear typically makes people do morally questionable and cowardly things.
No quarian died in the MW or ME3 before they decided to be cowards. NONE. I REPEAT NONE. There is a huge differenece betweem being a coward while actively being killed like the Geth and being a coward not because you are getting killed but because you decide you want to go kill people who are not attacking you because of someone else ie the Council during the MW and the Council and Reapers in ME3.
WRONG. It was a DESPERATE plan PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Also, IFY, humanity DID do the exact same thing, with the Crucible. Wasn't THAT a plan that revolved around the concept of a desperate bid? I mean, you chastize the quarians for attacking a well-known listed enemy of the galaxy, when everyone is scrambling to build the unknown Deus Ex Machina that was found on Mars? What is even the hell? You saying that because everyone decided to fall back and make a untested and possibly unstable and unuseable desu ex machina weapon is cowardly? You saying curing the genophage was done because the turians were cowards afraid to face the Reapers? DEAD WRONG. It was because they were DESPERATE. a factor that you cannot seem to grasp.
Also, AGAIN, dead wrong. There were walking weapons with no safeties, and no emotions to reason with. You actually think THAT'S safe? That's as safe as letting a war-mongering species have it's pick of worlds free of complaint until they are ready to attack you (*cough* krogan*cough*). What proof was there that the geth would listen to reasons that were based on emotions they didn't understand. Logical arguement would never have worked, because there is nothing the quarians could offer the geth that they could not either make for themselves, or take for themselves. It's like if every machine in the world suddenly had a mind of it's own, yet did not possess the morals to know right from wrong, and therefore had no grasp of the value of other living beings. How many governments would panic and the idea and order all machines destroyed? I'll give you a hint - we are no different then the quarians in that regard. They acted out of the desire to keep their people safe from a potental threat. Last I checked, it's NOT cowardace to get rid of the loaded and potentally unstable gun sitting right next to your brother. It's common snese to protect your family over an emotionless killing tool.
You REALLY need to look up what "cowardace" means before you throw it out like that. It is DESPERATION. There is ZERO difference between the quarians and geth in that regard. They are BOTH guilty of equally falutible crimes. Both ever acted out of DESPERATION. Try to grasp that next time. Also, last I chekced, (since you AGAIN seem to have forgotten that the Heretic Split isn't puiblic knowldge, or verifiable at all) the Battle of the Citadel seems to be pretty damming evidence that the geth have ATTACKED FIRST in the eyes of the quarians, and everyone else. As far as the galaxy knows, the geth cast the first stone in the "attacked without provocation" arguement. If only the True Geth had actually done something - ANYTHING - to disprove that they had a hand in that mess.....
Once again, you are incapable of seeing anything in gray. It HAS to be black and white. @Klarabella was right - you seem incapable of admitting that the quarians mistakes were made with reasons that are JUST as justifible as the geth's are. You seem unable to admit that the two stand on equal ground in this matter.
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