599 réponses à ce sujet

[iOnlySignIn]

Giving everyone effective gunpowder will solve all of the major problems of Thedas.

(1) Magic will no longer be descriminated against, as everyone can have access to something just as (if not more) dangerous.

(2) The Darkspawn will become trivial to deal with - we already see an example of this in DA2's quest involving Nathaniel.

(3) The Qunari no longer possess a distinct technological advantage. This will deter them from further aggression and stabilize the power balance.

(4) The effective use of gunpowder will lead to economic and technological advancement as well as geographical exploration, which will eventually dispel religious superstitions like what happened during the Renaissance in our world's Europe.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 09 mai 2013 - 10:41 .

[Knight of Dane]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Giving everyone effective gunpowder will solve all of the major problems of Thedas.

(1) Magic will no longer be descriminated against, as everyone can have access to something just as (if not more) dangerous.

The reason for the mage abuse is not just destructiveness but also the draw of demons, remember.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(2) The Darkspawn will become trivial to deal with - we already see an example of this in DA2's quest involving Nathaniel.

Unending armies of Darkspawn will probably still be a problem.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(3) The Qunari no longer possess a distinct technological advantage. This will deter them from further aggression and stabilizes the power balance.

They also posess chamicals that can turn ally against ally, I doubt loosing the gunpowder edge will mean that much, though certainly be troublesome for them.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(4) The effective use of gunpowder will lead to economic and technological advancement as well as geographical exploration, which will eventually dispel religious superstitions like what happened during the Renaissance in our world's Europe.

Hm, I try not to compare Thedas too much to IRL, it is a fantasy setting.

[sandalisthemaker]

Do you really want DA to turn into a first-person shooter?
I most certainly don't.

[Knight of Dane]

Did you even read the post sandalisthemaker?

[sandalisthemaker]

I read it. I was just jumping to the worst possible conclusion of the implementation of gunpowder in Thedas.

[Volus Warlord]

Call of Dragons: Fantasy Age

Na. It either be to FPS-ish or too Fable-ish.

I'm pretty sure most of us don't want either of those.

[Realmzmaster]

The suggestion you make will only result in an arms race. The Qunari will be force to make more devastating weapons because some nations will have both magic and gunpowder. Witness the fact that the USA had the Atomic Bomb, the USSR put a lot of resources into matching that advantage. That led to the USA to create the hydrogen bomb. Now the world has many ICBMs and atomic submarines with nuclear missiles.

Magic users will still be discriminated against. Groups are discriminated against because they are seen as different by the majority of society whether they be elves or magic users giving everyone gunpowder will not change that.

Your suggestion also means that magic users will have access to magic and gunpowder making them even more dangerous.

You also forget that some of the darkspawn are intelligent and could make use of gunpowder.

[iOnlySignIn]

Knight of Dane wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Giving everyone effective gunpowder will solve all of the major problems of Thedas.

(1) Magic will no longer be descriminated against, as everyone can have access to something just as (if not more) dangerous.

The reason for the mage abuse is not just destructiveness but also the draw of demons, remember.

Right. And demons are not feared because they are destructive or anything.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(2) The Darkspawn will become trivial to deal with - we already see an example of this in DA2's quest involving Nathaniel.

Unending armies of Darkspawn will probably still be a problem.

They are not unending. They need Broodmothers to create more of them.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(3) The Qunari no longer possess a distinct technological advantage. This will deter them from further aggression and stabilizes the power balance.

They also posess chamicals that can turn ally against ally, I doubt loosing the gunpowder edge will mean that much, though certainly be troublesome for them.

In DA2, the Arishok tells you that the saar-qamek is worthless compared to the gaatlok (and hence the former was used as a decoy for the latter). The gaatlok is by far their greatest advantage. 

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(4) The effective use of gunpowder will lead to economic and technological advancement as well as geographical exploration, which will eventually dispel religious superstitions like what happened during the Renaissance in our world's Europe.

Hm, I try not to compare Thedas too much to IRL, it is a fantasy setting.

OK.

[iOnlySignIn]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

I read it. I was just jumping to the worst possible conclusion of the implementation of gunpowder in Thedas.

I wouldn't expect anything else.

[Cainhurst Crow]

1. Mages still have other magics, such as ice magic that could render fire not so easily lit, fire magic to ignite the powder on the enemies side, mind control magics, healing spells, glyph spells, and a whole host of other magic spells in their arsenal, along with being more at risk for demonic possession than others.

2. I don't see how gunpowder will be able to affect the flying archdemon, or how it will stop the darkspawn from simply amassing underground and attacking from below.

3. The qunari also have better ships whose explosives can be used in watery weather, which doesn't happen with gunpowder. Once gunpoweder get's wet, it's useless. Not to mention their whole host of other weaponized agents such as poisonous gases to contend with.

4. Try it and the dwarves will probably declare war with you for taking away their lyrium based explosive trade and their mining trade.

[iOnlySignIn]

Realmzmaster wrote...

The suggestion you make will only result in an arms race. The Qunari will be force to make more devastating weapons because some nations will have both magic and gunpowder. Witness the fact that the USA had the Atomic Bomb, the USSR put a lot of resources into matching that advantage. That led to the USA to create the hydrogen bomb. Now the world has many ICBMs and atomic submarines with nuclear missiles.

Which lead to the longest period of major peace in modern history.

Also the Atomic Bomb is what ended WWII, not what started it.

Magic users will still be discriminated against. Groups are discriminated against because they are seen as different by the majority of society whether they be elves or magic users giving everyone gunpowder will not change that.

Yes, but not seen as a distinct danger. They will no longer be discriminated against more than say, Elves do, which is a major improvement IMO.

Your suggestion also means that magic users will have access to magic and gunpowder making them even more dangerous.

I think the lore will disallow simultaneous effective use of both, to keep different character classes (Mages and others) more distinct.

You also forget that some of the darkspawn are intelligent and could make use of gunpowder.

A very small minority of them.

Also, the intelligent ones can be reasoned with, and so are less dangerous and destructive to begin with.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 09 mai 2013 - 11:00 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

No, the more intellegant darkspawn can't be reasoned with. Only awakened darkspawn can be reasoned with.

[iOnlySignIn]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

1. Mages still have other magics, such as ice magic that could render fire not so easily lit, fire magic to ignite the powder on the enemies side, mind control magics, healing spells, glyph spells, and a whole host of other magic spells in their arsenal, along with being more at risk for demonic possession than others.

Excuse me for not going along this line of argument because it will eventually boil down to "Are Mages inherently superior to non-Mages in every way".

2. I don't see how gunpowder will be able to affect the flying archdemon, or how it will stop the darkspawn from simply amassing underground and attacking from below.

You don't.

3. The qunari also have better ships whose explosives can be used in watery weather, which doesn't happen with gunpowder. Once gunpoweder get's wet, it's useless. Not to mention their whole host of other weaponized agents such as poisonous gases to contend with.

The Qunari uses the Thedas equivalent of Greek Fire, which in our world was based on patroleum. That is actually technologically less advanced than blackpowder/gaatlok.

As for the qamek, in DA2 the Arishok tells you that the saar-qamek is worthless compared to the gaatlok (and hence the former was used as a decoy for the latter). The gaatlok is by far their greatest advantage. 

4. Try it and the dwarves will probably declare war with you for taking away their lyrium based explosive trade and their mining trade.

No offense but they are in no position to declare war on anyone and they know it very well.

[Giant ambush beetle]

Darth Brotarian wrote...
2. I don't see how gunpowder will be able to affect the flying archdemon, or how it will stop the darkspawn from simply amassing underground and attacking from below.

Large caliber cannons volley-firing at a massive target like a flying dragon? The archdemon and all the other dragons would be dead in seconds.

Darkspawn live in the deep roads? Cause massive cave-ins or systematically destroy the deep roads alltogether and deploy IED's at tunnel entrances and exists and they'll die by the thousands.

There are so many creative ways to make gunpowder a weapon of mass destruction, for a creative mind who has access to large amounts of explosives the sky's the limit.

[iOnlySignIn]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

No, the more intellegant darkspawn can't be reasoned with. Only awakened darkspawn can be reasoned with.

I don't know the distinction. Could you give an example of an intelligent but not awakened darkspawn that can't be reasoned with? Do you mean like Corypheus? I'm sure he can be reasoned with. He can speak fluently, and he's quite smart.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 09 mai 2013 - 11:09 .

[In Exile]

iOnlySignIn wrote...
(1) Magic will no longer be descriminated against, as everyone can have access to something just as (if not more) dangerous.

Gunpower lets you control minds?

[Uccio]

No.

[ImperatorMortis]

 I'm sorry, but gunpowder is in no way comparable to magic. Gunpowder has a limited supply, magic just needs mana or blood. Gunpowder can only be used to blow things up or shoot things.  Magic can can be used to blow things up, zap people wit lightning, raise the dead, freeze people, paralyze people, and manipulate the laws of physics. 

Gunpowder wouldn't solve anything it would just be an alternative to archery, except it would take a day, and a half to load each shot. 

No.. Even with gunpowder mundandes wouldn't be anywhere near comparable to mages. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if arcane shield would block or redirect bullets. Considering muskets aren't that accurate in the first place. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 09 mai 2013 - 11:17 .

[Chiramu]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Do you really want DA to turn into a first-person shooter?
I most certainly don't.

You can have guns for weapons and still have an RPG, in fact you can have a sci-fi adventure RPG with magic and science in it. Check out the Phantasy Star series, number four is the best. 

Anyway, I don't think other races should get gunpowder quite as easily. The Qunari have it at the moment and the other races aren't willing to learn anything about their beliefs, philosophies and way of life to gain any knowledge about their ways of fighting. Until people become more open minded they should not be able to gain that from the Qunari. 

Maybe in the age after the Dragon Age. 

[Melca36]

Theda will need an increase in physicians and spirit healers to do with the wounded who hurt themselves trying to use gunpowder.

Modifié par Melca36, 09 mai 2013 - 11:19 .

[Chiramu]

Melca36 wrote...

Theda will need an increase in physicians and spirit healers to do with the wounded who hurt themselves trying to use gunpowder.

If they are trying to kill off mages there may not even be any Spirit Healers to heal.

[Knight of Dane]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Giving everyone effective gunpowder will solve all of the major problems of Thedas.

(1) Magic will no longer be descriminated against, as everyone can have access to something just as (if not more) dangerous.

The reason for the mage abuse is not just destructiveness but also the draw of demons, remember.

Right. And demons are not feared because they are destructive or anything.

Not the problem, Demons is another kind of.. "Insanity?" which mages are always at the risk of.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(2) The Darkspawn will become trivial to deal with - we already see an example of this in DA2's quest involving Nathaniel.

Unending armies of Darkspawn will probably still be a problem.

They are not unending. They need Broodmothers to create more of them.

Indeed, and I would have to think that it would still take a actual effort to eradicate them
Not that it shouldn't be attempted.

iOnlySignIn wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

(3) The Qunari no longer possess a distinct technological advantage. This will deter them from further aggression and stabilizes the power balance.

They also posess chamicals that can turn ally against ally, I doubt loosing the gunpowder edge will mean that much, though certainly be troublesome for them.

In DA2, the Arishok tells you that the saar-qamek is worthless compared to the gaatlok (and hence the former was used as a decoy for the latter). The gaatlok is by far their greatest advantage. 

Right, but it's still another edge even if it's worthless "in comparison."

[Sjpelke]

I did not like the fact that something like gunpowder has been introduced in Thedas. There is magic and lyrium which can do that too. The Qunari have their mages in their midst too which to me makes the introduction of it unneccisary and even pointless.

Anders produced his own kind of gunpowder with ingredients that are present in Thedas itself. Although it is not clear if he used magic, alchemy is surely been used as the ingredients had to be mixed and the bomb set off when he was not present...

So there have been two types of 'man made' things that explode in the game till now.
No need for me to have it back there in the next installment, there are other means of making fireworks in the game as I see it .

[MichaelStuart]

While I disagree that gunpowder will solve problems, I do like the idea of seeing people actual trying to advance technology to try to solve problems.

Modifié par MichaelStuart, 09 mai 2013 - 11:30 .

[Urazz]

I don't think gunpowder would change things that much in Thedas.

Magic would still be stronger than gun powder due to it's flexability to do other things than just blow stuff up or shoot things. It would allow mages to be killed more easily that's for sure so it could potentially allow for mages to not need to be prisoners like they were before the mage rebellion.

Darkspawn would still be a major threat due to their numbers and high reproduction rate. They also could get gunpowder off the surface as well and that would get rid of that advantage as well. At the most it would just make dealing with a blight a bit easier than before.

I think gunpowder would only help against the Qunari as they are outnumbered by the other countries of Thedas but are only able to do so much damage due to better technology and stronger warriors by default. Gunpowder would take away most of that technological advantage the Qunari have.