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[Plaintiff]

Given their general incompetence in almost every other area, it's amazing how good governments are at covering up things like dragons and underwater alien pyramids.

[Xilizhra]

Plaintiff wrote...

Given their general incompetence in almost every other area, it's amazing how good governments are at covering up things like dragons and underwater alien pyramids.

I think the logical conclusion is that governments exist for the primary purpose of covering up the dragons and underwater pyramids, and half-ass everything else.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Qistina is that magical person who doesn't just believe in a single fringe conspiracy theory... but someone who believes in all the conspiracy thoeries.

It's...beautiful.

[Volus Warlord]

Plaintiff wrote...

Given their general incompetence in almost every other area, it's amazing how good governments are at covering up things like dragons and underwater alien pyramids.

The incompetance is feigned so that you believe none of that is plausible. 

[Plaintiff]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

Qistina is that magical person who doesn't just believe in a single fringe conspiracy theory... but someone who believes in all the conspiracy thoeries.

It's...beautiful.

No words...

Should've... sent... a poet.

[Boycott Bioware]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
No, creationists totally disregard these things, because they say the world is less old than you cite evidence it is. Only certain creationists, of course, since others have religious beliefs compatible with it.

Creationists is a new term, it is like "homophobic", the term is given in such negative sound. When someone is called "creationists", there is some sentiment regarding that title, it means "this people don't believe in reason and science but believe in flying spaghetti". So all religious peoples are being called "creationists".

Each religions have their own version about how the world exist, some are in metaphors, some are direct explanation. In anyway, it is a believe, religious peoples among the same religion have own interpretation about their religion, that is why there are sects. For example, some Christian scholars do saying the world is young, some others are not.

But atheists love to generalized, they love to take Christian as role model of all religious peoples. I do have some arguments using religious points, but atheists and evolution supporters always direct it toward against Christianity, because Christian is their device to against all religion.

In Islam, the world is not young, of course there are certain names of prophets similar to Jews and Christians, but their timeline is not the same. There are no scholars even dare to give exact timeline because Qoran never mention about time, and Qoran itself by it's nature (word structure, grammar, narration) is somewhat "futuristic"

So, a Muslim historians, scientists, archaeologists will always open to debates about origin of things and life, let say when talk about prophet Adam (Adam is the first prophet in Islam), there is no certain timeline, he can be live millions of years ago, unlike Christian and Jews who give certain timeline when Adam live.

In Islam, the earth (world) already existed before human exist. Animals and plants are made from water, human is made from the dirt. But the difference with Evolution Theory is, everything is created as it were and in balance. Evolution Theory suggest the earth is not balanced and so things somewhat come to life and evolved.

(Edit : In Hindu text there is about Adama and Havavati, Adam and Eve, in similar manner with littele difference with Bible and Qoran)

Do you remember i mentioned about the Kabbalah? That is Jewish magic book, There is Adam and Eve in that book but everything is similar with Evolution Theory, that is "The Ancient One" separated male and female nature, appear in material world in many forms and changing form, male and female beings, from time to time, searching balanced, from creature to creature, then Adam Kadmon a hermaphrodite come into being as incarnation of "The Ancient One", the perfect being, but Adam Kadmon get separated and Eve come into being, they reunited to become one again, and so life goes on and on and on in the cycle...

(edit : "The Ancient One" is similar with Tao in Chinese with the concept of "Yin Yang" and The Force in Star Wars, in witchcraft it is represented with Baphomet, the goatheaded hermaphrodite)

Magic and Religion is similar but not the same...Kabbalah give the different version about the origin of Adam and Eve and about origin of life from Abrahamic version (Bible and Qoran). But this Kabbalah thing being interpreted using science through Evolution Theory by the magicians who despise religions...the atheists are just tools of these magicians

Evolution Theory (the original) say that life begin with single cell, that appear suddenly due to the unbalanced earth, then become multi cell, then become male and female, then evolved into creatures and plants, changing form to seek balanced, natural selection, and so on then comes the apes, the apes become human the highest form in evolution process....isn't that similar with Kabbalah?

The magicians are wise, they make it Science vs Religion, while it is actually Magic vs Religion

The secret societies are Magicians

Modifié par Qistina, 23 mai 2013 - 06:15 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

I kind of wish I could bottle Qistina's crazy.

I'd make billions!

I'll be sure to bring it up at the next Ancient vampire/alien/weretiger/mage/slender man/templar world domination meeting.

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 23 mai 2013 - 06:30 .

[The Hierophant]

This was supposed to be about gunpowder? lol

[Clover Rider]

Qistina wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
No, creationists totally disregard these things, because they say the world is less old than you cite evidence it is. Only certain creationists, of course, since others have religious beliefs compatible with it.

Creationists is a new term, it is like "homophobic", the term is given in such negative sound. When someone is called "creationists", there is some sentiment regarding that title, it means "this people don't believe in reason and science but believe in flying spaghetti". So all religious peoples are being called "creationists".

Each religions have their own version about how the world exist, some are in metaphors, some are direct explanation. In anyway, it is a believe, religious peoples among the same religion have own interpretation about their religion, that is why there are sects. For example, some Christian scholars do saying the world is young, some others are not.

But atheists love to generalized, they love to take Christian as role model of all religious peoples. I do have some arguments using religious points, but atheists and evolution supporters always direct it toward against Christianity, because Christian is their device to against all religion.

In Islam, the world is not young, of course there are certain names of prophets similar to Jews and Christians, but their timeline is not the same. There are no scholars even dare to give exact timeline because Qoran never mention about time, and Qoran itself by it's nature (word structure, grammar, narration) is somewhat "futuristic"

So, a Muslim historians, scientists, archaeologists will always open to debates about origin of things and life, let say when talk about prophet Adam (Adam is the first prophet in Islam), there is no certain timeline, he can be live millions of years ago, unlike Christian and Jews who give certain timeline when Adam live.

In Islam, the earth (world) already existed before human exist. Animals and plants are made from water, human is made from the dirt. But the difference with Evolution Theory is, everything is created as it were and in balance. Evolution Theory suggest the earth is not balanced and so things somewhat come to life and evolved.

(Edit : In Hindu text there is about Adama and Havavati, Adam and Eve, in similar manner with littele difference with Bible and Qoran)

Do you remember i mentioned about the Kabbalah? That is Jewish magic book, There is Adam and Eve in that book but everything is similar with Evolution Theory, that is "The Ancient One" separated male and female nature, appear in material world in many forms and changing form, male and female beings, from time to time, searching balanced, from creature to creature, then Adam Kadmon a hermaphrodite come into being as incarnation of "The Ancient One", the perfect being, but Adam Kadmon get separated and Eve come into being, they reunited to become one again, and so life goes on and on and on in the cycle...

(edit : "The Ancient One" is similar with Tao in Chinese with the concept of "Yin Yang" and The Force in Star Wars, in witchcraft it is represented with Baphomet, the goatheaded hermaphrodite)

Magic and Religion is similar but not the same...Kabbalah give the different version about the origin of Adam and Eve and about origin of life from Abrahamic version (Bible and Qoran). But this Kabbalah thing being interpreted using science through Evolution Theory by the magicians who despise religions...the atheists are just tools of these magicians

Evolution Theory (the original) say that life begin with single cell, that appear suddenly due to the unbalanced earth, then become multi cell, then become male and female, then evolved into creatures and plants, changing form to seek balanced, natural selection, and so on then comes the apes, the apes become human the highest form in evolution process....isn't that similar with Kabbalah?

The magicians are wise, they make it Science vs Religion, while it is actually Magic vs Religion

The secret societies are Magicians

[The Hierophant]

lulz @ dat Gyro pic

[Zelto]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Given their general incompetence in almost every other area, it's amazing how good governments are at covering up things like dragons and underwater alien pyramids.

The incompetance is feigned so that you believe none of that is plausible. 

Ah, well they are cunning these governments. Here I thought David Cammron was just a posh school boy, turns out he is the leader of the British Vampire assosiation! And the whole election/choose a party thing is just a distraction so we don't notice all of the magic fairies and leprechaun that are running MIT and Oxbridge. I guess Steven Hawking is actually a tree ent magically disguised...

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...
So, human made jewelry first ...hahaha good one

What for? To give to their wives or girlfriends?

And so, the way for human to procreate is the male must seducing the females by giving jewelries first...ah, it turn out to be a very ancient practice...

.... Sometimes I wonder why I even bother....

Yes. The very first metal humans worked was gold, and they made it into jewelry. Why? No one can truly say, but the most supported and likely theory, is because humans had yet to develop a forge, and thus could not melt down the gold into forms, and make tools or weapons out of it. Instead, as humans progressed and learned to survive the world they lived in, with increasing effeciency, the humans also started to have more and more downtime, which means they had to use their newfound freetime on something, this something turns out to have been jewelry, music and other forms of entertainment. Mind you, that jewelry predates even the first golden pendant by many centuries. But the very first metalwork humans made, was definitely jewelry.

[Fiery Knight]

Qistina wrote...
*snip*

Please, stop posting. You are lowering peoples IQ.

[Boycott Bioware]

Yes. The very first metal humans worked was gold, and they made it into jewelry. Why? No one can truly say, but the most supported and likely theory, is because humans had yet to develop a forge, and thus could not melt down the gold into forms, and make tools or weapons out of it. Instead, as humans progressed and learned to survive the world they lived in, with increasing effeciency, the humans also started to have more and more downtime, which means they had to use their newfound freetime on something, this something turns out to have been jewelry, music and other forms of entertainment. Mind you, that jewelry predates even the first golden pendant by many centuries. But the very first metalwork humans made, was definitely jewelry.

Jeweleries are not made by tempering gold with stones, no matter how you want to justify it, it is not believable. What reason the human want to playing with golds, copper and stones? No reason at all, and that is not the origin of metal work. You can theorize all you want, but there is no way to prove your theory. It is all just assumptions and you call it scientific theory.

It is like "long time ago, in the galaxy far far away......", it's a fairy tales

I have been reading books about evolution theory, one of them have graphic explanation on how birds come into being. It shown a small dinasaur chasing a bee, it cannot eat the bee, but trying and trying....the illustration show how that small dinosaur begin to develop wings, and then morphing into a bird and then manage to catch the bee...that is ABSURD. But they put that in science section in the library.

Evolutionists have too much imaginations and they call it science. The dinosaur morphing into a bird but the bee not morphing into something else for millions of years...you see when they want to explain the evolution process they only focus on one organism, but the other organism remain the same. Similar with they want to explain how frog come into being...the frog was having short tongue, want to eat flies, for millions of years trying then the tongue becomes long and manage to eat the flies...they show it in illustration to fool the kids

Evolution theory is the same with fairy tales about centaurs, griffins, minotaur and such thing in pagan belief...but they morphing it into science and use it to against religion, like i say they call it science vs religion but actually it is magic vs religion...

What these have to do with Thedas? It is the same...in future Thedas where guns and technology is dominant, similar thing the Mages will do to against religion institution. We already being shown in the games how Mages rebel against religious authority, the game show us sympathy toward Mages and how the Chantry (religious authority) is evil and wrong...it is similar with Renaissance where it began in France and the Church collapse...

[Monica21]

Qistina wrote...

Jeweleries are not made by tempering gold with stones, no matter how you want to justify it, it is not believable. What reason the human want to playing with golds, copper and stones? No reason at all, and that is not the origin of metal work. You can theorize all you want, but there is no way to prove your theory. It is all just assumptions and you call it scientific theory.

What reason did humans have for painting caves or for leaving the cave for that matter? What reason did humans have to make boats or sail around the Earth? What reason did humans have for spaceflight? You know what the universal answer to "Why climb Everest?" is "Because it's there." Gold was there and people worked it. They did what they could with the tools they had. It was shiny and pretty and a mark of power. Tribal chiefs all over the world wear jewelry as a symbol of authority and power. Why wouldn't it be gold?

And really, Qistina, the fact that humans made jewelry from gold is not theory, it's fact. You simply choose not to believe it and that's no one's fault but your own.

Edited to add: So what's the name of this book you read? Because I believe the point they were trying to make (that you seemed to take literally with the pictures) is that birds are the evolutionary ancestors of dinosaurs, not that a dinosaur literally morphed into a bird. And really, what's the name of the book?

Modifié par Monica21, 23 mai 2013 - 12:20 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Qistina wrote...

Yes. The very first metal humans worked was gold, and they made it into jewelry. Why? No one can truly say, but the most supported and likely theory, is because humans had yet to develop a forge, and thus could not melt down the gold into forms, and make tools or weapons out of it. Instead, as humans progressed and learned to survive the world they lived in, with increasing effeciency, the humans also started to have more and more downtime, which means they had to use their newfound freetime on something, this something turns out to have been jewelry, music and other forms of entertainment. Mind you, that jewelry predates even the first golden pendant by many centuries. But the very first metalwork humans made, was definitely jewelry.

Jeweleries are not made by tempering gold with stones, no matter how you want to justify it, it is not believable. What reason the human want to playing with golds, copper and stones? No reason at all, and that is not the origin of metal work. You can theorize all you want, but there is no way to prove your theory. It is all just assumptions and you call it scientific theory.

It is like "long time ago, in the galaxy far far away......", it's a fairy tales

I have been reading books about evolution theory, one of them have graphic explanation on how birds come into being. It shown a small dinasaur chasing a bee, it cannot eat the bee, but trying and trying....the illustration show how that small dinosaur begin to develop wings, and then morphing into a bird and then manage to catch the bee...that is ABSURD. But they put that in science section in the library.

Evolutionists have too much imaginations and they call it science. The dinosaur morphing into a bird but the bee not morphing into something else for millions of years...you see when they want to explain the evolution process they only focus on one organism, but the other organism remain the same. Similar with they want to explain how frog come into being...the frog was having short tongue, want to eat flies, for millions of years trying then the tongue becomes long and manage to eat the flies...they show it in illustration to fool the kids

Evolution theory is the same with fairy tales about centaurs, griffins, minotaur and such thing in pagan belief...but they morphing it into science and use it to against religion, like i say they call it science vs religion but actually it is magic vs religion...

What these have to do with Thedas? It is the same...in future Thedas where guns and technology is dominant, similar thing the Mages will do to against religion institution. We already being shown in the games how Mages rebel against religious authority, the game show us sympathy toward Mages and how the Chantry (religious authority) is evil and wrong...it is similar with Renaissance where it began in France and the Church collapse...

Why wouldn't they work metal into jewelry? They had the time and the tools, as is evidenced by the artifacts found in archaeology. There is really nothing to discuss, the oldest metal artifacts found, is jewelry made of gold, then comes some iron weapons, followed by copper tools. The oldest tools found are made of stone.

And for why bees havn't changed: It is simply because tehre is no reason for it to change. The bee is perfectly adapted to the environment it lives in. Add to that the limitations of insict evolution on earth anyway (not enough oxygyn in our atmosphere to allow for larger insects to evovle), and then take into consideration all the more subtle changes that bees have doubtlessly undergone.
I'd also direct you towards the crocodile and the shark, both of which have changed very little over the years, even though both species are as old as the dinosaurs. The reason why: There is no reason for either of them to change, evolve and adapt, since they are both apex predators and perfectly adapted top their environment.

[Nightdragon8]

ok i think this topic is completely been derailed.... how did gunpowder get into a creationist/evolutionist debate? And we are now talking about jewelry.... geez I don't read the topic for a day and this is what pops up... yeesh...

[Zelto]

Qistina wrote...

Jeweleries are not made by tempering gold with stones, no matter how you want to justify it, it is not believable. What reason the human want to playing with golds, copper and stones? No reason at all, and that is not the origin of metal work. You can theorize all you want, but there is no way to prove your theory. It is all just assumptions and you call it scientific theory.

Why do you read books? Why invent the internet? Why wear jewellery now? Why wear fashionable clothes? Why eat chocolate or cake? The answer to every question is because it was there and we could so we did.

Why make jewellery? Because it looks nice, gold being vertually inert it is found mostly pure and therefore is natuarally shiny and intersting comparied to say titanium or Aluminium which is found in oxides and therefore dull.

Why do you beleive that early humans whether Neanderthals or Homosapians have any different motives for wanting something that you or me. Add to that, why assume that they are vastly inferior mentally, the smartest early humans are probably just as smart as we are now, maybe not einstein smart but average. Intellegence is not after all knowlage but capacity, their knowlage would be vastly inferior to any modern man (or woman) but there intellegence was most likely not significantly lower. If you can manage to shape a bit of gold with a rock and have the desire why wouldn't they.

Qistina wrote...
It is like "long time ago, in the galaxy far far away......", it's a fairy tales

No its looking at the evidence presented before you (an archeologist/historian) and using your knowlage of humanity/science and anyother relivent data to extrapolate the "likely" causes and reasons, that does not mean its exact, it does however mean it is the most likely explination and mostly accurate. The more data and supporting evidence the more accurate the model becomes. That is the scientific process.

Qistina wrote...
I have been reading books about evolution theory, one of them have graphic explanation on how birds come into being. It shown a small dinasaur chasing a bee, it cannot eat the bee, but trying and trying....the illustration show how that small dinosaur begin to develop wings, and then morphing into a bird and then manage to catch the bee...that is ABSURD. But they put that in science section in the library.

Evolutionists have too much imaginations and they call it science. The dinosaur morphing into a bird but the bee not morphing into something else for millions of years...you see when they want to explain the evolution process they only focus on one organism, but the other organism remain the same. Similar with they want to explain how frog come into being...the frog was having short tongue, want to eat flies, for millions of years trying then the tongue becomes long and manage to eat the flies...they show it in illustration to fool the kids

You appear to have read a childrens book. Childrens books simplify things to make it easier for them to understand. The truth is that the dinosaurs differ.

Lets first play pretend. There is only one type of dinosaur and bees, the dinosaurs need to eat the bees to live.

Some of the dinosaurs could not jump, therefore never catch the bee and die therefore their inferior genes die out over tim. Other can jump but not well, they live but are weak, therefore always get the last pick for mates, that means that when there are lots of dinosaurs the live, but when the number of mates reduce, i.e when there is evolutionary pressure due to less food, they will likely not mate. Then you have ones that can glide, say like chickens can today, they always get food and first choice of mate. So their supperior genes survive and thrive. Over millions of years they will get better and better at gliding through pure chance, with the best gliders always mating every generation. Eventually some of them end up able to fly.

That is evolution. It happens all the time. However when there are pressures such as preditors and food shortages then it happens faster because only the best adapted survive. Adapted may be fastest, strongest, longest necked, most economical/efficient, smartest, smallest, really anything that in their particular situation makes them better than the others. Obviously what I described is a simplified version of the truely massivly complex system with thousands of species, hundreds of compeating traits and many more influencing factors than just food.

As someone said, sharks and crocodiles have evolved little. Thats because they are dominent and don't feel the evolutionary pressures as greatly as species that are hunted. Human evolution is slow because we can create to fix our own deficits. We are not strong but we can make weapons. So the strongest might have once fought of the bear, now the smartest kills it with a bow. We also have medicine and social welfair so inferior genes can be managed rather than simply left to die out.

Qistina wrote...
Evolution theory is the same with fairy tales about centaurs, griffins, minotaur and such thing in pagan belief...but they morphing it into science and use it to against religion, like i say they call it science vs religion but actually it is magic vs religion...

Ok firstly pagan is a religion, simply an old religion that predates christianity or islam in Europe, they have their gods and their beliefs. You seem to be merging atheist and pagan together, they are different. Second, there is no evidence to support the existance of centaurs, griffins, minotaurs outside greek mithology. No physical evidence. There is evidence of evolution. Selective breeding has resulted in dog breeds, modern potatos and many other things. This is human driven but is the same process as natural evolution just faster and targeted to improve what we want rather than what nature finds best.

Qistina wrote...
What these have to do with Thedas? It is the same...in future Thedas where guns and technology is dominant, similar thing the Mages will do to against religion institution. We already being shown in the games how Mages rebel against religious authority, the game show us sympathy toward Mages and how the Chantry (religious authority) is evil and wrong...it is similar with Renaissance where it began in France and the Church collapse...

Ok I really not sure what you are saying here. With technology and guns you believe evolution will stop mages? Its possable IF mages suddenly become entirely unattractive to all other that they might be able to bread magic out of humanity, but they has little to do with technology.

Also the mages are rebelling against persecution not religion. DA:O shows that some mages are Andrestirans some are not. The Andrestrians are not going to rebel against the Chantry. Second the Chantry supports greater mage freedom, the templars are no longer controled by the Chantry. Finally (and I'm pretty much athiest) the Church hasn't collapsed, it was weakened and  its powers limited to the religious aspest of life. But if you want proof it hasn't collapsed try getting a non-christian president on america.

[Edit: missed an end-quote]

Modifié par Zelto, 23 mai 2013 - 02:52 .

[Volus Warlord]

Hawke_12 wrote...

Qistina wrote...
*snip*

Please, stop posting. You are lowering peoples IQ.

This isn't exactly a high IQ  environment. 

[Volus Warlord]

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I kind of wish I could bottle Qistina's crazy.

I'd make billions!

I'll be sure to bring it up at the next Ancient vampire/alien/weretiger/mage/slender man/templar world domination meeting.

You left out Decepticons. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Grand Admiral Cheesecake wrote...

I kind of wish I could bottle Qistina's crazy.

I'd make billions!

I'll be sure to bring it up at the next Ancient vampire/alien/weretiger/mage/slender man/templar world domination meeting.

You left out Decepticons. 

SHHHH!!!! They asked to be left off the list to keep the damn autobots in the dark!

[Jarl Johnnie Walker]

Volus Warlord wrote...

Hawke_12 wrote...

Qistina wrote...
*snip*

Please, stop posting. You are lowering peoples IQ.

This isn't exactly a high IQ  environment. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Qistina wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...
No, creationists totally disregard these things, because they say the world is less old than you cite evidence it is. Only certain creationists, of course, since others have religious beliefs compatible with it.

Creationists is a new term, it is like "homophobic", the term is given in such negative sound. When someone is called "creationists", there is some sentiment regarding that title, it means "this people don't believe in reason and science but believe in flying spaghetti". So all religious peoples are being called "creationists".

No, creationist is a more specific term, which refers to people who don't believe in evolution. There are religious people who believe in evolution; in fact I'm pretty sure the Vatican made it canon. Edit: Or, apparently they're unofficially signing off on it. Whatever. Point is, there are religious people who know what "evidence" is.

Modifié par Riverdaleswhiteflash, 23 mai 2013 - 05:45 .

[Ninja Stan]

No longer on topic. Political threads and religious debates are not permitted on the BSN.

End of line.