192 réponses à ce sujet

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Have to revisit this topic since I'm replaying Skyrim, and just WOW. The scale, the composure, the freedom, the attention to detail ( the whole thing's hand crated, DUDE! ) just.... I wanna cry, really, and I'd already logged a grip of hours but it feels good again.

And really the story is as good as you make it. Even I would be hardpressed to remember just a fraction of the interesting people, events, quests.

I just want to consider the advantages and disadvantages of BW taking the series in this direction..AGAIN. Considering they are looking "aggressively" at Bethesda's super behemoth as a source of inspiration for Inquisition, one might speculate what such a game could really be.

To me, pfftt as long as they keep combat the same & maintain the character interaction I can't harbor any negativity to the prospect except.... the game being TOO MUCH OF A GOOD THING! To those who would say it might diminish player agency, haha come on! Most of your choices in the game are pretty much meaningless A and B, who lives or dies...whatever and it never has any impact on the world around you ( but at first you're led to believe these choices may have dire consequence ). All that translated to in Origins was the epilogue, a series of hand typed statements that just left things way too open ended. Especially since they abandon every protagonist story line with the newest inclusion. DA2 was no better. What I mean in saying this is that these elements seem like they could be easily maintained ( also to get my rant on ).

Thoughtfully, objectively. Pro's / Con's. Have at it, if you care to post at all.

[Knight of Dane]

This discussion again? I think imma stay out this round.

[Xilizhra]

Nothing that Bethesda is good at, is what Bioware is good at. Bioware does characters, companion interactions, and overall character-based writing as its specialty, and Skyrim deemphasizes all of that in favor of a big continent that you can wander around. Bioware trying to lift from other companies in that specific sense will not, I believe, lead to anything good.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Haha I know. If BW didn't possibly see threads like these I wouldn't even post. Had just logged a 4 hour session and it was freakin great. GPA killer for sure, Dragon Age as well.

[Dave of Canada]

Skyrim's world is a big mass of nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr.

[Knight of Dane]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Skyrim's world is a big mass of nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr.

I said I wanted to stay out, but: Please.

[Hazegurl]

The only thing i would want similar in Dragon Age is the building of houses and decorating it, and children and a large map. I want to marry as well. Other than that heck no! Skyrim is boring, their followers suck, the storyline sucks, the quests all suck and all of them take place in the same caves and ruins.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Skyrim's world is a big mass of nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr.

Obvious reply insert here---->. So as opposed tooooo? Leveling system in TES too complicated for ya bruh?

[Silfren]

iiReaperZz wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Skyrim's world is a big mass of nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr.

Obvious reply insert here---->. So as opposed tooooo? Leveling system in TES too complicated for ya bruh?

As opposed to a lot of things, starting with Dragon Age, obviously.  I liked Skyrim, but I can see where the accusation of "nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr' comes from.  It's a totally different kind of game from Bioware, for the reasons already given:  it sacrifices character and story in favor of the totally open world.  I enjoyed it while playing, but eventualy burned out, and that happened because there's only so much exploring you can do before you've seen it all.  The story is too weak to keep most people's interest, and it generally becomes about nothing BUT exploration.  People who like Bioware games tend to like them for the story and characters, which means that the open world concept won't work, not if applied the way TES does it.

Modifié par Silfren, 10 mai 2013 - 04:50 .

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Hazegurl wrote...

The only thing i would want similar in Dragon Age is the building of houses and decorating it, and children and a large map. I want to marry as well. Other than that heck no! Skyrim is boring, their followers suck, the storyline sucks, the quests all suck and all of them take place in the same caves and ruins.

Haha I'm gonna be chock full o replies here.

Follower's suck? Yea they don't have near forced backgrounds you have to explore. It's alright because there are a billion other story elements to immerse yourself in. In every DA there were really only a handful of interesting companions, this is subjective I know, but sorry a lot of the backgrounds personal quests were boring, cliché or felt downright tacked on. I know DA is a party game, by even by compare ME had better characters IMO. Should note I solo it, I conjure my companions in Skryim, they look much cooler btw.

Quests Suck. Really? Did you spend all your play time doing 50hours worth of  miscellaneous quests? Sorry, but questing by comparison, even the fetch stuff is infinitely more interesting and detailed than DA's paltry, lazy quest system. The good stuff wasn't spoon fed to you like you're a 6 year old. The average quest in DA would benefit massively from the amount of care and design that went into Skryims.

"All take place in the same caves and ruins".... what you mean stylistically? Do I really even need to comment here. No.

And see what you made me do! LOL. I don't want to rip of DA, feels wrong but at the same time it's annoying when people somehow act as if DA has done it so much better. In as much as these games are different there are plenty of similarities and enough to make some direct and sensible comparisons. Also considering quality compared to scale, Bethesda would make most developers efforts seem half hearted atleast. I can't even compare writing quality outside of the main quests, but the lore is more original and fully realized in TES for obvious reasons.

Don't nerdrage pleez

[Plaintiff]

Skyrim is a poor example of an open-world game in my opinion. Plot and characterisation are extremely weak.

Other games, like Assassin's Creed and Red Dead Redemption, manage to provide open worlds as well as compelling narratives and characters. Their maps may not be as expansive as Skyrim's, but bigger isn't automatically better, and sometimes may even be worse.

[In Exile]

iiReaperZz wrote...
It's alright because there are a billion other story elements to immerse yourself in.

Name ten.

Quests Suck. Really? Did you spend all your play time doing 50hours worth of  miscellaneous quests? Sorry, but questing by comparison, even the fetch stuff is infinitely more interesting and detailed than DA's paltry, lazy quest system. The good stuff wasn't spoon fed to you like you're a 6 year old.

What's the good stuff, and how are Skyrim fetch quests different?

I can't even compare writing quality outside of the main quests, but the lore is more original and fully realized in TES for obvious reasons.

Because it's all in a codex that you have to find thrown around in in-game books instead of being something you can experience in the game, ever?

[Palidane]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nothing that Bethesda is good at, is what Bioware is good at. Bioware does characters, companion interactions, and overall character-based writing as its specialty, and Skyrim deemphasizes all of that in favor of a big continent that you can wander around. Bioware trying to lift from other companies in that specific sense will not, I believe, lead to anything good.

Plaintiff wrote...

Skyrim is a poor example of an open-world game in my opinion. Plot and characterisation are extremely weak.

Other games, like Assassin's Creed and Red Dead Redemption, manage to provide open worlds as well as compelling narratives and characters. Their maps may not be as expansive as Skyrim's, but bigger isn't automatically better, and sometimes may even be worse.

Completely agreed. Let Skyrim be Skyrim, and Dragon Age be Dragon Age.

Modifié par Palidane, 10 mai 2013 - 05:08 .

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Plaintiff wrote...

Skyrim is a poor example of an open-world game in my opinion. Plot and characterisation are extremely weak.

Other games, like Assassin's Creed and Red Dead Redemption, manage to provide open worlds as well as compelling narratives and characters. Their maps may not be as expansive as Skyrim's, but bigger isn't automatically better, and sometimes may even be worse.

I appreciate your view, but Skyrim IS THE DEFINITIVE EXAMPLE of open "world" gaming IMO.  Awesome that you bring R* into the mix, I'm a super fanboy anyway ( Still play RDR, GTA4 (modded), and Max Payne 3 ) they are very detail oriented just like Bethesda but I would agree that their storytelling and writing is leagues better, especially compared to DA and Skyrim.

But rockstar games provide an adequate compromise. There's always a lot of beautiful world to explore. I have yet to see beautiful anything in DA, wellll w/ some exceptions.

Assassin's Creed still had a hollowed environment. It left a lot to be desired, but damn if some of those settings weren't breathtaking. Prefer AC1 generally. Ubi is really botching the series for me though. And the real world story constructs became despicable. Neither here nor there.

I guess ultimately, I don't want to see the series become Skyrim, but when you look to any of these other titles it kind of shows just how little BW has actually offered previously. Good stories, sure. Involving, sure. But a plethora of subpar elements. They need to get ambitious here.
 

[Xilizhra]

But rockstar games provide an adequate compromise. There's always a lot of beautiful world to explore. I have yet to see beautiful anything in DA, wellll w/ some exceptions.

I've yet to see anything in Skyrim that's more beautiful than DA, unless you count the auroras you sometimes see if the clouds ever clear. Beyond that, Skyrim seems to consist solely of various gray things: gray skies, gray mountains, gray forests, gray marshes, and some green if the sun is up and the sky is clear, which is maybe a quarter of the time spent in the overworld. Then there's the gray dungeons, of course, which, while they may look better individually than DA2's, have far less actual plot behind any of them.

[Silfren]

iiReaperZz wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

The only thing i would want similar in Dragon Age is the building of houses and decorating it, and children and a large map. I want to marry as well. Other than that heck no! Skyrim is boring, their followers suck, the storyline sucks, the quests all suck and all of them take place in the same caves and ruins.

Haha I'm gonna be chock full o replies here.

Follower's suck? Yea they don't have near forced backgrounds you have to explore. It's alright because there are a billion other story elements to immerse yourself in. In every DA there were really only a handful of interesting companions, this is subjective I know, but sorry a lot of the backgrounds personal quests were boring, cliché or felt downright tacked on. I know DA is a party game, by even by compare ME had better characters IMO. Should note I solo it, I conjure my companions in Skryim, they look much cooler btw.

Quests Suck. Really? Did you spend all your play time doing 50hours worth of  miscellaneous quests? Sorry, but questing by comparison, even the fetch stuff is infinitely more interesting and detailed than DA's paltry, lazy quest system. The good stuff wasn't spoon fed to you like you're a 6 year old. The average quest in DA would benefit massively from the amount of care and design that went into Skryims.

"All take place in the same caves and ruins".... what you mean stylistically? Do I really even need to comment here. No.

And see what you made me do! LOL. I don't want to rip of DA, feels wrong but at the same time it's annoying when people somehow act as if DA has done it so much better. In as much as these games are different there are plenty of similarities and enough to make some direct and sensible comparisons. Also considering quality compared to scale, Bethesda would make most developers efforts seem half hearted atleast. I can't even compare writing quality outside of the main quests, but the lore is more original and fully realized in TES for obvious reasons.

Don't nerdrage pleez

Bioware games and TES games ARE radically different, though.  I haven't heard anyone saying that DA has done "it" so much better, because the games can't really be directly compared in general terms: they use entirely different formats.  They focus on different things. Bioware's strength IS its story and characters, and that is NOT what Skyrim is good at. 

You might also consider laying off the tendency to snidely suggest that other people not agreeing with your assessments just means they've been doing it wrong.

Modifié par Silfren, 10 mai 2013 - 05:28 .

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Xilizhra wrote...

But rockstar games provide an adequate compromise. There's always a lot of beautiful world to explore. I have yet to see beautiful anything in DA, wellll w/ some exceptions.

I've yet to see anything in Skyrim that's more beautiful than DA, unless you count the auroras you sometimes see if the clouds ever clear. Beyond that, Skyrim seems to consist solely of various gray things: gray skies, gray mountains, gray forests, gray marshes, and some green if the sun is up and the sky is clear, which is maybe a quarter of the time spent in the overworld. Then there's the gray dungeons, of course, which, while they may look better individually than DA2's, have far less actual plot behind any of them.

Are you high? Sorry, a little insulting but I swear to god most of you BW fans are as bad as console fanboys. I knew it was going to be me against the world here but damn if I haven't seen more  Skyrim hate than on these forums. I'm cool with criticism but don't pretend like Dragon Age has better design or aesthetics because it doesn't. Realize Baldur's Gate and the ME series are some of my all time favorites, so I still love their products. The game doesn't look bad at all. Spend more than 300 dollars on your t.v., get an hdmi cable, go explore a few more hours then get back to me.

Are the graphics perfect? Hell no! But a lot of the environments and items look leagues better than DA's. Bioware can't even make trees look decent in linear format lol. I never felt like I was in Ostagar or Orlais, it was lego land. Always lego land with smooth  colored surfaces everywhere. Skyrim has the effect too, but c'mon it has a more detailed...I'm gonna stop. It's 500 plus sqkm so please, don't mention graphics here.

And as for dungeons having less plot behind them? LOL a lot of dungeons have their own unique storylines. Sorry but Skryim again coming in with more value.

Really origins looks like it was made for ps2. DA2, when the design was right they nailed it. But mostly very drab. I'd paint DA's lame duck Kirkwall ( why is it that the black emporium looked better than 90% of the game ) before the individually constructed dungeons of Skyrim.

Edit- I'm tired and going around in circles it feels like so gonna retire from this thread for now. Yea yea, presuppose blah I'm tired. I really just wanted to hear some cool new ideas!

Modifié par iiReaperZz, 10 mai 2013 - 05:40 .

[Xilizhra]

Are you high? Sorry, a little insulting but I swear to god most of you BW fans are as bad as console fanboys. I knew it was going to be me against the world here but damn if I haven't seen more Skyrim hate than on these forums. I'm cool with criticism but don't pretend like Dragon Age has better design or aesthetics because it doesn't. Realize Baldur's Gate and the ME series are some of my all time favorites, so I still love their products. The game doesn't look bad at all. Spend more than 300 dollars on your t.v., get an hdmi cable, go explore a few more hours then get back to me.

Don't play with fire if you don't want to get burned. Also, I'd love exploring... if I ever had an in-character reason to do so at complete random, which I frankly don't. I could make a new character, but I've already spent far too many hours on this one.

Are the graphics perfect? Hell no! But a lot of the environments and items look leagues better than DA's. Bioware can't even make trees look decent in linear format lol. I never felt like I was in Ostagar or Orlais, it was lego land. Always lego land with smooth colored surfaces everywhere. Skyrim has the effect too, but c'mon it has a more detailed...I'm gonna stop. It's 500 plus sqkm so please, don't mention graphics here.

I don't really care about technical advancements on graphics all that much, to be honest. I was mostly commenting on the environmental aesthetics.

And as for dungeons having less plot behind them? LOL a lot of dungeons have their own unique storylines. Sorry but Skryim again coming in with more value.

Yes, unique... none of which has anything to do with any kind of characterization on the PC's part, actual story tying into anything else, or really, a whole lot else. Some do, but those aren't the ones you find by just wandering around.

[rapscallioness]

Lol! "The sweet sound of amore."

Oh, you.

But hey, anything they can do, I say do it. If it opens up the games a bit more instead all tightly cross legged like a virgin in a biker bar, I say do it!

Altho, I never want them to give up on working to perfect their craft of choice/consequence. The system needs work, no doubt, but I want them to keep at it. Even if it means stand alone.

I luv the premise entirely too much to let them forget what they came here to do. It may not mean much real c/c now, but oh, imagine. I f they could master that---tech willing--make me sweat everytime I pick a dialogue...it would be glorious.

As well if they could manage a...at least semi open world w/what they do best w/characters and story. BooYah!

I would never expect it to be wide open world like Skyrim--which lacks elements that are far more important to me.

But if they could find the Sweet Spot...I will love you ,long time, BW!

[Fredward]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Skyrim's world is a big mass of nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr.

This. Skyrim is fun...ish. I will still occasionally play it if I just wanna run around in a huge sandbox crouching around and shooting stuff with my badass conjured bow but otherwise... meh. The storyline is so uncompelling that I've never been able to finish it. The entire thing seems to rely on "HEY! Aren't these dragons like COOL AND STUFF?!!??!?!" The only interesting quests are the Thieves guild and the Dark Brotherhood ones. I was massively disappointed with the vampire dlc since that could have been excellent but again... meh. There is no character development no matter how hard you look. The VA are a special kind of godawful. No one does enviroments like Skyrim though, with a few mods the game is seriously stunning. But overall, for people who want story, meaning, (emotional) content Skyrim is definitely not the place to look. Nothing in that game made me care, at all. Not even the dogs. And the dogs always make me care.

So yeah. I'm really hoping that DA3 isn't even vaguely Skyrimy. Luckily the devs mentioned that when Skyrim was still cool and never, ever, not even once, since then.

[10K]

iiReaperZz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

But rockstar games provide an adequate compromise. There's always a lot of beautiful world to explore. I have yet to see beautiful anything in DA, wellll w/ some exceptions.

I've yet to see anything in Skyrim that's more beautiful than DA, unless you count the auroras you sometimes see if the clouds ever clear. Beyond that, Skyrim seems to consist solely of various gray things: gray skies, gray mountains, gray forests, gray marshes, and some green if the sun is up and the sky is clear, which is maybe a quarter of the time spent in the overworld. Then there's the gray dungeons, of course, which, while they may look better individually than DA2's, have far less actual plot behind any of them.

Are you high? Sorry, a little insulting but I swear to god most of you BW fans are as bad as console fanboys. I knew it was going to be me against the world here but damn if I haven't seen more  Skyrim hate than on these forums. I'm cool with criticism but don't pretend like Dragon Age has better design or aesthetics because it doesn't. Realize Baldur's Gate and the ME series are some of my all time favorites, so I still love their products. The game doesn't look bad at all. Spend more than 300 dollars on your t.v., get an hdmi cable, go explore a few more hours then get back to me.

Are the graphics perfect? Hell no! But a lot of the environments and items look leagues better than DA's. Bioware can't even make trees look decent in linear format lol. I never felt like I was in Ostagar or Orlais, it was lego land. Always lego land with smooth  colored surfaces everywhere. Skyrim has the effect too, but c'mon it has a more detailed...I'm gonna stop. It's 500 plus sqkm so please, don't mention graphics here.

And as for dungeons having less plot behind them? LOL a lot of dungeons have their own unique storylines. Sorry but Skryim again coming in with more value.

Really origins looks like it was made for ps2. DA2, when the design was right they nailed it. But mostly very drab. I'd paint DA's lame duck Kirkwall ( why is it that the black emporium looked better than 90% of the game ) before the individually constructed dungeons of Skyrim.

Edit- I'm tired and going around in circles it feels like so gonna retire from this thread for now. Yea yea, presuppose blah I'm tired. I really just wanted to hear some cool new ideas!

I have to agree with you. I like both DA and Skyrim, but as far as world and environment goes, Skyrim kills DA. In both DA games most of the areas on the map were plain and linear compared to a cities like Riften or Markarth. DA strengths aren't environments it's story and characters.

[Commander Kurt]

I'm with Plaintiff, there are other games that do sandbox better (having lots of fun with Dragon's Dogma at the moment). That point aside, I would enjoy it if DA:I were more open than the previous two, but that would be icing. The cake, in this case, is companions, story, quests, banter and such. If that is on par with previous installments (honestly, the quests could use some work too), I would like for them to improve on combat first. But sure, after all that, if they have the money to spare then go for it.

[Thomas Andresen]

I'm sort of in the same camp as Foopy here. There's nothing in the game to really care about.

If you're looking for open world games, you're looking at the wrong developer.