192 réponses à ce sujet

[Hazegurl]

iiReaperZz wrote...
Haha I'm gonna be chock full o replies here.

Follower's suck? Yea they don't have near forced backgrounds you have to explore. It's alright because there are a billion other story elements to immerse yourself in. In every DA there were really only a handful of interesting companions, this is subjective I know, but sorry a lot of the backgrounds personal quests were boring, cliché or felt downright tacked on. I know DA is a party game, by even by compare ME had better characters IMO. Should note I solo it, I conjure my companions in Skryim, they look much cooler btw.

Quests Suck. Really? Did you spend all your play time doing 50hours worth of  miscellaneous quests? Sorry, but questing by comparison, even the fetch stuff is infinitely more interesting and detailed than DA's paltry, lazy quest system. The good stuff wasn't spoon fed to you like you're a 6 year old. The average quest in DA would benefit massively from the amount of care and design that went into Skryims.

"All take place in the same caves and ruins".... what you mean stylistically? Do I really even need to comment here. No.

And see what you made me do! LOL. I don't want to rip of DA, feels wrong but at the same time it's annoying when people somehow act as if DA has done it so much better. In as much as these games are different there are plenty of similarities and enough to make some direct and sensible comparisons. Also considering quality compared to scale, Bethesda would make most developers efforts seem half hearted atleast. I can't even compare writing quality outside of the main quests, but the lore is more original and fully realized in TES for obvious reasons.

Don't nerdrage pleez

lol! I don't need to nerdrage like what you are obviously doing. DA companions are better all around, they are actually interesting and don't spend the entire game repeating the same piece of dialouge. The romances are done much better. They actually have a story of their own. Oh yeah and they are actually useful and worth bringing along for a fight. Skyrim's followers suck so bad to the point where even though Dragon's Dogma pawn annoy me to no end, to the point where it was one of the reasons I quit, I can't deny that their pawns are done much much better than Skyrim's followers.

The only lazy quest system is Skyrim's.

Someone tells you a story that you don't give two craps about then give orders to:

"Go here to X cave and kill this bandit or group we hate."
"Go to X ruins and get this scroll"
"Here is another quest that you can't decline that involves traveling to another set of underground ruins and caves to go get some stuff or kill X person or group"
"Yay, even though you are new to our guild we will make you the leader."
"Will you join the Stormcloaks or Legion?" Does anyone care?
"Oh btw the dragons are coming back, we don't know how to kill them."


Yeah that took a bucket load of care and attention to detail.

[Mercedes-Benz]

If Dragon Age 3 is anything like Skyrim, that will be the final straw, I will be done with BioWare forever.

[Boycott Bioware]

Skyrim companion suck evidence



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLxyIRcFVxo

[Sutekh]

In Exile wrote...

Because it's all in a codex that you have to find thrown around in in-game books instead of being something you can experience in the game, ever?

That's not quite true (not true at all, actually), and a bit disingenuous. You can get lots of lore and background through quests and dialogs without opening a single book. You don't need them, they're just a plus for those who want to get deeper, just like DA's codex.

This being said,

@OP: DA and TES aren't comparable because they don't have the same foundation at all, and they shouldn't try to copycat each other, except, maybe, take inspiration for some technical and / or cosmetic things.

In terms of character development and "emotional" content, Skyrim is very diluted. You've got some in small doses here and there, but the focus is on the world. Companions are very shallow, marriage is a business contract without any relation stuff involved, and you've got no personal story per se, except the one you possibly headcanon yourself. Plots are quite loose and a bit all over the place - with the main quest being barely more important than some side ones, and seem to be more like a reason (excuse) to go there or do that than something you feel involved in. It's all very impersonal, very objective. And when emotion is involved, it's always about NPCs, never about you (the PC).

It's fine, because plot and characterization are not what the game's about, but it has a price: without emotional investment to keep you on your toes, things can become tedious after a while. This is worsened by the world size (not talking square kilometers, but number of places & people) and the fact that combat becomes extremely easy past a certain level of expertise and gear, and you don't have the difficulty to keep you entertained (most of the time).

Example: In Skyrim, you can visit all the houses, anytime you want, but 80% of them will have nothing of interest in them plot-wise. In DA you only can visit a little number of them and only at certain times, but they're all important. It's freedom vs. plot & char. The bottom line is, "which do you prefer?", not "which is the best?"

So, essentially, Skyrim isn't better or worse than DA, it's just different, and pitting them against each others - or asking for one to borrow from the other - is pointless.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Hunger doth strike one at the strangest of times!

The thing with quests is, you're offered a ton of em in Skyrim. Guild and Daedra quests alone carry more weight than any stupid chanter board/guild quest I did in DA. And to be fair how are quests any different in DA. We'll disregard fetch quests because those were just pathetic, you didn't even get a request for those items.

But side quest formulae are generally, go there kill/steal/convince comeback. A b a, or a b c a it doesn't really deviate. Skyrim and the comparison aside, you're absolutely foolish to think this isn't an area that needs a lot of improvement since Origins and II ( side quests here, not secondary/companion ).

Finally. Companions, yea there's more content there, but you can find interesting banter all over Skyrims world. Just as funny, and just as well written. You don't have the same connection, but it's just as good. I may be speaking for myself but through FO3, NV or any TES game I never desired to have any companions except for my dog. But I concede, DA has good companions. Hell the most important thing for me STILL is to see morrigan, allistair, and varric again. BW has nothing to learn from Bethesda in that regard.

I lied, one more thing. Character development. There's a ton of personal development in TES games. You just don't have a world full of sock puppets praising you constantly for it, it's internal and speaks to all the morally ambiguous choices you make during your travels. Really, you have to spend a good amount of time playing through the variety of quests to make a qualified judgement about, but some of them are very good.

Again, curbing Skyrim for the moment. I'm just saying for a structured game like DA we should be getting a lot more content, and a much more polished experience. Objectively, I want BW to give the kind of care to this series that they apply to ME and that Beth applies to its game series. To quote Xcalizorz, "Peasoup"

[Blackrising]

I'm gonna be fair here:
IF Bioware managed to combine Skyrim's vast landscape with the character interaction, development and interactive storylines they are so damn good at? It would indeed be great.

Do I think they could do it? I don't know, maybe with a hell of a lot more resources, creators and another 10 years. Do I think they could do it within the short time frame, with the resources and people they are given for a new game? No.
So before they sacrifice the things that make their games wonderful in the first place (story, characters...etc.), I'd rather they not try. Bioware is good, but there is only so much a single team can do.

[ComfortablyNumb]

@ OP - you are entitled to your opinion. It doesn't mean is is more true/correct than others, though.
Saying something is better because you think is better, does not really hold much in discussion.

Modifié par mrufka_z, 10 mai 2013 - 10:19 .

[Elrena]

Do we *really* need this thread? Really? I mean, all the ground being covered here has been covered in the "Don't make DA another Skyrim" thread. :/ Everyone is just arguing now and it's turning into a fan vs. fan rage fest...Don't fight, guys! ;O.O;

[legbamel]

OP, you can fangirl over Skyrim all you like but your opinions are no more valid than those of the people you mock. Personally, I enjoyed Skyrim for what it was but never felt any connection with my PC or any of the NPCs. I didn't find the lore to be all that terribly original or groundbreaking, perhaps because, as someone who only played one other TES game and hated it, I don't have context for it. But if what draws me to BioWare games is the story of a character's experience of a particular period in a world's history then DA beats Skyrim six ways to Sunday.

In Thedas, your characters directly impact the lives of those around you on varying scales, they notice and theycare. In Skyrim you're this mysterious nobody and no one cares for longer than it takes to finish their quest. Your PC has, as far as I could, even less interest in their lives. If I have to head canon the whole freaking thing to get a coherent story that's downto my writing abilities, not theirs. The wide-open world dilutes what little connection ther was across hours of going swimming (which, granted, was awesome) and hunting rabbits and deciding whether it was worth it ti carry that stack of pots all of the way back to town.

Ome element I do wish BioWare would include is the interactivity of your immediate surroundings, however. I loved having a fight and knocking over random things that we them kicked around the room as the battle raged.

[Tenshi]

Nah, skyrim is fun to explore... but well.. THATS IT. even dragon battles sucked, random trolls are more likely to kill you than dragons.

edit: but it was fun to shoot dragons out of the sky in skyrim.

Modifié par xxx2emo4Uxxx, 10 mai 2013 - 11:34 .

[Ridwan]

Bad companies tries to copy and imitate successful games, good companies tries to emulate parts of a successful game and implement it in their own. I predict this thread is going to be filled with Skyrim haters who won't be able to see the point I just made.

[Tenshi]

M25105 wrote...

Bad companies tries to copy and imitate successful games, good companies tries to emulate parts of a successful game and implement it in their own. I predict this thread is going to be filled with Skyrim haters who won't be able to see the point I just made.

most of us actually like skyrim, we just dont want guards with arrows in their knees all around the thedas..

Modifié par xxx2emo4Uxxx, 10 mai 2013 - 11:36 .

[Keeper of Light]

Xilizhra wrote...

Nothing that Bethesda is good at, is what Bioware is good at. Bioware does characters, companion interactions, and overall character-based writing as its specialty, and Skyrim deemphasizes all of that in favor of a big continent that you can wander around. Bioware trying to lift from other companies in that specific sense will not, I believe, lead to anything good.

And here we go again with Bioware fanboys/fangirs hating on The Elder Scrolls series. Bethesda are good in a lot, A LOT of things. You see, Bioware are good at giving us a very story driven experience, that's what they're good at, while Bethesda are good at giving us this huge world to explore. You obviously are either jealous of a big name such as The Elder Scrolls, or you just hate the game so much.

Nevertheless, The Elder Scrolls series has established to be one of gaming's greatest achievement whether you like it or not thanks to Skryim. Billions of people had put well over 300+ hours of gameplay into it. It's because this game has a lot of content, and I mean A LOT of content for a $60 game; with a lot of variety of things that you're able to do, so of course they won't be focusing on the story that much such as Dragon Age. Both completely different games with different experiences.  Oh, and you don't know jack **** about The Elder Scrolls series. It has a lore that is so rich in detail it actually is on par with the likes of J.R.R Tolkien's Middle-Earth and GRRM's Westeros. Although the story is simplified, the lore behind it is just so amazing and huge, that it can easily back up the main story of any Elder Scrolls game. Not every game needs to be story-driven as Dragon Age or Mass Effect. This game already has a story of its own, meaning that anything you do in Skyrim, or Oblivion, or even Morrowind, you make up your own stories as you go through those adventures. 

I advice you to stop it, because you don't know what you're talking about. Look, I'm a huge fan of both Bioware and Bethesda and the games they develop, but to actually be biased in a discussion like this? Blatantly hating on The Elder Scrolls for not having a deep and rich story-driven content such as Dragon Age. Get out of here! 

Modifié par Darksiders2, 10 mai 2013 - 01:25 .

[Fast Jimmy]

The Dragon Age team chasing after Skyrim numbers and design for DA3 will be as flawed a concept as them chasing Call of Duty numbers and design for DA2.

When you chase after the success of a game as pursuing things on a checklist, you will get a shallow, stale imitation of what you are chasing. If you design a game because you are passionate about the approach your game is taking and don't mind sinking blood, sweat and tears into making that visions reality, instead of completing a "To Do" checklist that you feel other developers did.

The OP likes Skyrim because of the amount of work and scope it involved. If Bioware made the next DA game in a way nothing like Skyrim at all, but had the same level of work, love and attention to detail, I'm sure there is a good chance they would love that, too.

Copying features a good game does not make. Having the same level of passion and vision as other studios who are making good games does.

[thedancingdruid]

*Skyrim Spoilers*




I totally disagree with Skyrim's assessment here, completely agreeing with the OP, from dealing with Astrid after learning about Aventus' situation, Kodlak's funeral, Farkas' & Vilkas' cleansing, Karliah and Mercer Frey; characters are well-drawn, communicative and involved. And all of the above are the "side quests".

As far as the "main quest", I found playing the Dragonborn, meditating with the Greybeards and Paarthurnax's redemption to be very satisfying and moving and the culminating, main boss, Alduin, a very apt, rewarding conclusion, especially the ending cinematic if Paarthurnax is spared.

Completely enjoying Skyrim doesn't negate personal respect for BioWare, I'm a huge OCD Dragon Age fan. Taking a serious look at Skyrim, in my opinion, would be very beneficial.

Thanks OP.

[ImperatorMortis]

Meh I'll just play Dark Souls 2 when it comes out.

[Wulfram]

Darksiders2 wrote...

Billions of people had put well over 300+ hours of gameplay into it.

Um, no.  I doubt even Millions is true for that amount of gameplay.

Modifié par Wulfram, 10 mai 2013 - 01:41 .

[Maverick827]

*Exits cave*
Lydia: Look, a cave! I wonder what's inside!

*Defeats Ulfric Stormcloak and ends the Civil War*
Every NPC: So how about this Civil War that's totally still going on?

*Joins The Companions*
Vargas: You're a piece of ****. You need to earn your way around here, new blood. Get out of my sight.
*Does two quests*
Vargas: Welcome to the Inner Circle, brother!

*Kills Dragon with 10 arrows, easily shrugs off damage from multiple fire attacks*
*Kills Bandit with 40 arrows, almost dies to dagger*

Farengar: My voice exists for some some reason.

*Discovers that a villager is a vampire, is asked by the Jarl to wipe out her clan*
*Attacks vampire in town, guards defend vampire while cursing frequent vampire attacks*
*Former vampire thrall thanks the player for setting him free while attacking the player in defense of the vampire*

*Is able to upgrade magic weapon made by gods after crafting some jewelry*

*NPC surrenders and asks for mercy, then attacks again*

*NPC sends thugs to kill the player for stealing, acts normal when player returns*

*Is the leader of every faction in Skyrim, saved the world multiple times, frequently does favors for kings and gods*
*Is asked to deliver letters, kill bandits, and find plants*

[thedancingdruid]

^Warden defeats Archdemon and ends Blight.
Awakening...maybe not.

Cullen: We can't treat mages like people, they're not like you and I.
Hawke: Uh, Cullen look at me...robe, staff, yeah okay, whatever.

Marjolaine: My voice exists for some reason.

Red Jenny groupie: We like calm, safe streets to play in.
Hawke exits tavern and is mugged again and again by new bandits, including bandits that descend from thin air like helium-losing balloons.

Places Vestments of the Seer robe in Warden's Chest at Soldier's Peak and it magically turns red.

See I can do it too, stop seeing minute inconsequential flaws, all games have them.

[garrusfan1]

I love the elder scrolls games but they are the complete opposite in rpgs that bioware is. biowares specalty is characters I have never seen a company come close to bioware in it and the storys are better then TES. the elder scrolls have horrible characters for the most part and the storys are okay at best it is just the shear amount of stuff that makes them special. also when that was stated it meant they were gonna take some ideas one of the dev team said later it is not gonna be a skyrim clone or something and it wasn't meant like that

[garrusfan1]

dafangirl wrote...

^Warden defeats Archdemon and ends Blight.
Awakening...maybe not.

Cullen: We can't treat mages like people, they're not like you and I.
Hawke: Uh, Cullen look at me...robe, staff, yeah okay, whatever.

Marjolaine: My voice exists for some reason.

Red Jenny groupie: We like calm, safe streets to play in.
Hawke exits tavern and is mugged again and again by new bandits, including bandits that descend from thin air like helium-losing balloons.

Places Vestments of the Seer robe in Warden's Chest at Soldier's Peak and it magically turns red.

See I can do it too, stop seeing minute inconsequential flaws, all games have them.

all games have flaws but what TES games have are horrible bugs but that wasn't what he was talking about. and all games have bugs but TES games are notorius for them.

[Maverick827]

dafangirl wrote...

See I can do it too, stop seeing minute inconsequential flaws, all games have them.

I like Skyrim.  I can't wait to get out of work to play it.  There's just a ton of hilarious consequences of focusing so much on the world and so little on the story, characters, dialogue, voice acting, etc.  More so than your DAO examples, in my opinion (some of yours are just technical issues and not deliberate things someone wrote for a story).

[garrusfan1]

Wulfram wrote...

Darksiders2 wrote...

Billions of people had put well over 300+ hours of gameplay into it.

Um, no.  I doubt even Millions is true for that amount of gameplay.

there are 6 billion people in the world I think a billion at most might have a console or gaming PC and that is being very very optimistic less then 300 million played skyrim (I think) and only hardcore gamers put that much time in so yeah wulfram sounds right

[thedancingdruid]

@Maverick827 My apologies, I wasn't trying to be antagonistic. I think both games are fantastic, both studios could learn from each other and loving one shouldn't mean excluding the other...peace.