189 réponses à ce sujet

[-TC1989-]

KENNY4753 wrote...

IMO BW should stay far away from Bethesda games. I really think Bethesda makes crappy games. Fallout 3 was trash Oblivion was freaking garbage and Skyim was dumpster food. Their storylines were poor their characters were just terribly plain and their combat was pathetic. I would rather have DA2 button mashing wave combat than TES crap.

I know were entitled to our own opinions, but wow. Different developers have different attractions, and have different goals with the games they make. I would never buy a Bethesda game for an impactful story, but they are masters at making their worlds breathe with life. And if that is not your passion, then that's fine. But the games they make are not crap, or trash.

Personally I care more about the characters and the story instead having an open world.

See? Now that is a much more civil opinion, and one I can definitely respect. And I happen to agree with you, I prefer story over open world. I wouldn't say making an open game, and having a good story is impossible, but I wouldn't advise Bioware to try it. They are great at telling their stories, and it's fine if that sacrifices true "exploration".

[KENNY4753]

@TC1989

In my opinion their games are trash. As i said "I really think Bethesda makes crappy games". That is my opinion. That doesnt mean they are crappy games for you but for me they are.

And I agree that an open world game with a great story is possible but not probable. BW definitely should not try it with DA3. They should stick to what they know. Story and characters.

[Fishy]

I have said it already 1 millions of time. The problem with bioware game is that it often feel like a big theme park. Everything is placed only for your own entertainment. Their world feel because of this .. Vapid and shallow. They need to find the good point between big open world and a strong narrative.

The world does not feel alive. The npc just seem to be waiting for you to click on them and the world story can only advance when you progress into the quest. The world time period is completely linked to the main quest. That the only way they have found to make a strong narrative, but at the cost of a living breathing world.


If they could by some miracle create this kind of game. Oh my God ., but I think Witcher III might be the first to reach this. This level of awesomeness.

Modifié par Suprez30, 11 mai 2013 - 01:12 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Rubios wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I desperately want BioWare to stop supporting 640*480.  They already did it once - 10 years ago - and they should do it again.

Why?

Because even low-end phones have a higher resolution these days.

It's almost like a reverse benchmark test.

[garrusfan1]

Suprez30 wrote...

I have said it already 1 millions of time. The problem with bioware game is that it often feel like a big theme park. Everything is placed only for your own entertainment. Their world feel because of this .. Vapid and shallow. They need to find the good point between big open world and a strong narrative.


If they could by some miracle create this kind of game. Oh my God ., but I think Witcher III might be the first to reach this. This level of awesomeness.

open world games are very hard because it is near impossible to make any sense of urgency since dragons can be attacking and you can go to a dwarven ruin and get stuff for hours (using skyrim as an example) same with far cry 3.the witcher 3 may be able to pull it off to an extent but I think it will not be perfect

[-TC1989-]

Suprez30 wrote...
If they could by some miracle create this kind of game. Oh my God ., but I think Witcher III might be the first to reach this. This level of awesomeness.

I agree. And that is a big reason why that game will be a day 1 buy for me.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

garrusfan1 wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

I have said it already 1 millions of time. The problem with bioware game is that it often feel like a big theme park. Everything is placed only for your own entertainment. Their world feel because of this .. Vapid and shallow. They need to find the good point between big open world and a strong narrative.


If they could by some miracle create this kind of game. Oh my God ., but I think Witcher III might be the first to reach this. This level of awesomeness.

open world games are very hard because it is near impossible to make any sense of urgency since dragons can be attacking and you can go to a dwarven ruin and get stuff for hours (using skyrim as an example) same with far cry 3.the witcher 3 may be able to pull it off to an extent but I think it will not be perfect

Chiming in again.

I keep hearing people talk about  a sense of urgency. I never felt that anything demanded my immediate attention in either origins or II. The only instances I can recall feeling urgency, if any, were when the storyline seemed to necessitate immediate response and really it was a forced endeavor. The world revolves around nothing but the main quest, there's suvh little distraction just a bunch of forced points of no return. Although I stopped everything I was doing when Leandra was kidnapped.

I still see what you're saying, and I don't want BW to make any compromises on the things they do so well.

Offtopic Question- Is there anyone who didn't choke up a little when hearing that song in Skyrim. The one that starts out with quiet piano playing and has that epic outro? ( This coming from someone who prefer's metalcore and late 90's, early 2k indie )

[Vaeliorin]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...
If they could by some miracle create this kind of game. Oh my God ., but I think Witcher III might be the first to reach this. This level of awesomeness.

Five whole pages!

I think that's a record.

Probably.  But he spelled awfulness wrong.

[In Exile]

-TC1989- wrote...
Different developers have different attractions, and have different goals with the games they make. I would never buy a Bethesda game for an impactful story, but they are masters at making their worlds breathe with life. And if that is not your passion, then that's fine. But the games they make are not crap, or trash.

It'd love a game about exploration and exploring a living world. But so far we have a tiny ant farm that you adventure across alone, where exploration generally means wandering through scenic forest. 

[garrusfan1]

iiReaperZz wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

Suprez30 wrote...

I have said it already 1 millions of time. The problem with bioware game is that it often feel like a big theme park. Everything is placed only for your own entertainment. Their world feel because of this .. Vapid and shallow. They need to find the good point between big open world and a strong narrative.


If they could by some miracle create this kind of game. Oh my God ., but I think Witcher III might be the first to reach this. This level of awesomeness.

open world games are very hard because it is near impossible to make any sense of urgency since dragons can be attacking and you can go to a dwarven ruin and get stuff for hours (using skyrim as an example) same with far cry 3.the witcher 3 may be able to pull it off to an extent but I think it will not be perfect

Chiming in again.

I keep hearing people talk about  a sense of urgency. I never felt that anything demanded my immediate attention in either origins or II. The only instances I can recall feeling urgency, if any, were when the storyline seemed to necessitate immediate response and really it was a forced endeavor. The world revolves around nothing but the main quest, there's suvh little distraction just a bunch of forced points of no return. Although I stopped everything I was doing when Leandra was kidnapped.

I still see what you're saying, and I don't want BW to make any compromises on the things they do so well.

Offtopic Question- Is there anyone who didn't choke up a little when hearing that song in Skyrim. The one that starts out with quiet piano playing and has that epic outro? ( This coming from someone who prefer's metalcore and late 90's, early 2k indie )

true but I just think bioware should stick with what they do best. also I am not opposed to more areas and bigger areas

[slimgrin]

Suprez30 wrote...

I have said it already 1 millions of time. The problem with bioware game is that it often feel like a big theme park. Everything is placed only for your own entertainment. Their world feel because of this .. Vapid and shallow. They need to find the good point between big open world and a strong narrative.

The world does not feel alive. The npc just seem to be waiting for you to click on them and the world story can only advance when you progress into the quest. The world time period is completely linked to the main quest. That the only way they have found to make a strong narrative, but at the cost of a living breathing world.

I've said this for like.. ever since I played ME1. Their worlds are not worlds. Everything is a video game level, and feels like a video game level. Nothing feels like an organic environment. Partly due to how linear their areas are, and partly due to a lack of moving NPC's, day night cycle, weather effects. Nothing is dynamic. It's all played out on a static backdrop, a stage. But then of course we bring this up, and they claim it will hamper the story if they implement these features. And that's the end of it. At least on the forums. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 11 mai 2013 - 01:39 .

[In Exile]

slimgrin wrote...
I've said this for like.. ever since I played ME1. Their worlds are not worlds. Everything is a video game level, and feels like a video game level. Nothing feels like an organic environment. Partly due to how linear their areas are, and partly due to a lack of moving NPC's, day night cycle, weather effects. Nothing is dynamic. It's all played out on a stage. But then of course we bring this up, and they claim it will hamper the story if they implement these features. And that's the end of it. At least on the forums.

Look at how TW2 does it. Each chapter is a self-contained module. So the story demands restrictions on space. Think of, for example, the choice with supporting Iorveth or Vernon after you run into Letho. Floatsam switches stages while you're away. That doesn't happen organically - the devs just switch the stage. 

Any game that has a story is just a stage, and all of the "dynamic" effect is window dressing. 

NPCs, when they have to react for a story, are firmly planted as set pieces (e.g. in Dandelion's "execution"). 

Bioware could implement these features - but I don't see how (for example) randomly moving automatons makes the game feel more or less alive. Human beings don't behave anything like what so-called open-world games show them (e.g. walking from A to B and interact with a few objects). 

Modifié par In Exile, 11 mai 2013 - 01:43 .

[-TC1989-]

In Exile wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...
Different developers have different attractions, and have different goals with the games they make. I would never buy a Bethesda game for an impactful story, but they are masters at making their worlds breathe with life. And if that is not your passion, then that's fine. But the games they make are not crap, or trash.

It'd love a game about exploration and exploring a living world. But so far we have a tiny ant farm that you adventure across alone, where exploration generally means wandering through scenic forest. 

I said this in another post, but I'll say it again. The only game that has managed to make me care about the story/character/and world I'm in (that also was open world) was Red Dead Redemption. I felt like everything I did was for a real purpose. Bounty hunting was fun and necessary because it gave me money, which in turn gave me better weapons. The same concept applies to Skyrim, but It's not the same thing. I felt like the things I did in RDR was something I had to do to complete Marston's ultimate goal. Whether it was looking for treasure, playing poker, whatever. I'm waiting on my hands, and knees for another experience like that.

[Addictress]

Skyrim has a unique ambience you can't capture anywhere else - you literally feel like you've reached the after life and can explore that world for eternity. It's so, so beautiful and immense, and the nature there is a living art.

However, after 300 hours you do see that the story and characters do lack the cinematic, well-written quality Bioware excels at.

Bioware drowns you in literary-type immersion - it creates characters you can literally obsess over - a fictional world that can spawn novels, fan fiction.

If they decided to team up together, and really combine their two strengths, I think the UN World Heritage Foundation would put a stamp on it.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

-TC1989- wrote...

In Exile wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...
Different developers have different attractions, and have different goals with the games they make. I would never buy a Bethesda game for an impactful story, but they are masters at making their worlds breathe with life. And if that is not your passion, then that's fine. But the games they make are not crap, or trash.

It'd love a game about exploration and exploring a living world. But so far we have a tiny ant farm that you adventure across alone, where exploration generally means wandering through scenic forest. 

I said this in another post, but I'll say it again. The only game that has managed to make me care about the story/character/and world I'm in (that also was open world) was Red Dead Redemption. I felt like everything I did was for a real purpose. Bounty hunting was fun and necessary because it gave me money, which in turn gave me better weapons. The same concept applies to Skyrim, but It's not the same thing. I felt like the things I did in RDR was something I had to do to complete Marston's ultimate goal. Whether it was looking for treasure, playing poker, whatever. I'm waiting on my hands, and knees for another experience like that.

Dude, I pretty much cried at the end of the game. The ending was so unique in its delivery.... it really was bittersweet, but perfect. And the rage that enveloped me taking the reigns as Marston's son, well I still haven't let go of that. When I found the Agent's wife I lassoed her, slit her throat and then set her on fire. Talk about passion!

Modifié par iiReaperZz, 11 mai 2013 - 03:01 .

[-TC1989-]

iiReaperZz wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

In Exile wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...
Different developers have different attractions, and have different goals with the games they make. I would never buy a Bethesda game for an impactful story, but they are masters at making their worlds breathe with life. And if that is not your passion, then that's fine. But the games they make are not crap, or trash.

It'd love a game about exploration and exploring a living world. But so far we have a tiny ant farm that you adventure across alone, where exploration generally means wandering through scenic forest. 

I said this in another post, but I'll say it again. The only game that has managed to make me care about the story/character/and world I'm in (that also was open world) was Red Dead Redemption. I felt like everything I did was for a real purpose. Bounty hunting was fun and necessary because it gave me money, which in turn gave me better weapons. The same concept applies to Skyrim, but It's not the same thing. I felt like the things I did in RDR was something I had to do to complete Marston's ultimate goal. Whether it was looking for treasure, playing poker, whatever. I'm waiting on my hands, and knees for another experience like that.

Dude, I pretty much cried at the end of the game. The ending was so unique in its delivery.... it really was bittersweet, but perfect. And the rage that enveloped me taking the reigns as Marston's son, well I still haven't let go of that. When I found the Agent's wife I lassoed her, slit her throat and then set her on fire. Talk about passion!

Hell yeah man, the ending was truly unique. I love endings where things like this happen, but I hate it too. I don't play many games where I truly care about the PC, but RDR was one of them. Everything about his upbringing, and his view on life was inspiring, and heartbreaking. I wanted to play as an outlaw, but I knew too that wasn't really John's character. No one has better lines than that man. LOL one of the best lines I ever heard in gaming was one time when I was tying up my bounty, and Marston yells "You've lost this argument!", I really laughed out loud lol. But yeah man, the rage going after Edgar Ross.... man blowing him away in that duel felt so damn good.

[Sylvius the Mad]

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I desperately want BioWare to stop supporting 640*480.  They already did it once - 10 years ago - and they should do it again.

Why?

Because of the design restrictions 640*480 creates, particularly with the UI.

Imagine how much longer the paraphrases on the dialogue wheel could be is there was just more space to display them.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 11 mai 2013 - 03:21 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Isn't 640 X 480 tied to TV resolutions?

[AlanC9]

Addictress wrote...

If they decided to team up together, and really combine their two strengths, I think the UN World Heritage Foundation would put a stamp on it.

Would you get a game with the strengths of both, or a game with the weaknesses of both?

[AtreiyaN7]

Hazegurl wrote...

@AtreiyaN7, I agree I would much rather have a game that doesn't have mind blowing graphics but have a great story I can get into and characters I actually care about. I don't truly remember anyone from Skyrim and I was playing it less than a month ago. I don't hate anyone in Skyrim cause I haven't came across any character that makes me feel those emotions toward them. I don't love any of the characters either.

I also agree about the lack of urgency to finish the main quest, the dragons were just an annoyance. If DA could provide us with an open world and the few good things that made Skyrim interesting while still maintaining everything I love about DA games, I would love it, but if not I can live without it.

Hah, yes - I agree about the dragons becoming annoying as the game went on. The first few times I fought dragons in Skyrim, it was actually quite exciting (maybe even a smidge awe-inspiring). After the tenth dragon, the novelty had completely worn off.

I remember that I was trying to do a quest, and every time I quick-traveled I seemed to land right on top of a dragon. If you include the dragon that was inside the tomb that I was supposed to explore, that totaled up to 5-6 dragons in a row that I had to fight. I really just wanted to headdesk at that point - lol.

[AshenShug4r]

iiReaperZz wrote...
Dude, I pretty much cried at the end of the game. The ending was so unique in its delivery.... it really was bittersweet, but perfect. And the rage that enveloped me taking the reigns as Marston's son, well I still haven't let go of that. When I found the Agent's wife I lassoed her, slit her throat and then set her on fire. Talk about passion!

I'd call that insanity.

[ejoslin]

In Exile wrote...

I think it's pretty comical when people cite the commercial success of Skyrim as a reason for Bioware to make games more like theirs, but complain when Bioware cites the commercial success of CDO as a reason to make games more like that.

Well, at least Skyrim is peripherally in the same genre.  If anything, Skyrim shows that there is a market for RPGs.

[Silfren]

Dominari wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I liked Skyrim, but I can see where the accusation of "nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr' comes from.  It's a totally different kind of game from Bioware, for the reasons already given:  it sacrifices character and story in favor of the totally open world.  I enjoyed it while playing, but eventualy burned out, and that happened because there's only so much exploring you can do before you've seen it all.  The story is too weak to keep most people's interest, and it generally becomes about nothing BUT exploration.  People who like Bioware games tend to like them for the story and characters, which means that the open world concept won't work, not if applied the way TES does it.

I think this is kind of the point of the OP.  What would Skyrim be like with Bioware's characters and stories?

Actually it was the reverse: What would Bioware be like with Skyrim's open world?  My point stands: I don't believe it would work, because Bioware's storytelling would suffer.  It would have to.  The OP's assumption seems to be it would be the best of both worlds.  I'm more inclined to think that it would be a watered down compromise.  So I'd prefer that Bioware stuck with it's already proven strengths of compelling narrative and characters.

[Little Princess Peach]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Skyrim's world is a big mass of nothingness littered by crypts and caves filled with draugr.

you forgot the odd falling dead dragons when you enter a town via fast travel