278 réponses à ce sujet

[GreyLycanTrope]

Troxa wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

No clevernoob pls.

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

With that said, I'm always going to call people out on their hyperbolic statements. As an example, saying that the endings boil down to suicide promotion is something that I would assertively criticize.

You are certainly free to do so, but totally denying this element strikes me as disingenuous. Think about it: many people have said that "Shepard's sacrifice" is fitting because he is clearly suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and his life is effectively "ruined". So, being the wreck that s/he is, there can be no way out for him/her that doesn't feel like "Disney".

I don't know the worldwide incidence of depression, but CDC stats show something like 10% of the adult population of the US struggle with it at least at times. With 3 million sales for ME3, that would translate to 300,000 depressive people internalizing this message through their avatar. It's not entirely preposterous to me to wonder if that's such a good message.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 08:12 .

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

With that said, I'm always going to call people out on their hyperbolic statements. As an example, saying that the endings boil down to suicide promotion is something that I would assertively criticize.

You are certainly free to do so, but totally denying this element strikes me as disingenuous. Think about it: many people have said that "Shepard's sacrifice" is fitting because he is clearly suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and his life is effectively "ruined". So, being the wreck that s/he is, there can be no way out for him/her that doesn't feel like "Disney".

I don't know the worldwide incidence of depression, but CDC stats show something like 10% of the adult population of the US struggle with it at least at times. With 3 million sales for ME3, that would translate to 300,000 depressive people internalizing this message for their avatar. It's not entirely preposterous to me to wonder if that's such a good message.

Suicide is selfish. Sacrifice is selfless. That's the first flaw of equating the ending with suicide promotion.

The second is the elephant in the room, which is the 3100 EMS scenario where Shepard does survive the Crucible blast and his fate post ending is left to player interpretation. You can criticize the way this was handled but having this scene there at all invalidates the notion of a forced suicide "message."


By the way, your math is off. There aren't 300,000 SpamBots. Different people interpret things differently.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 12 mai 2013 - 08:20 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Many of us also consider the Alien series to be "Alien" and "Aliens". It went downhill from there. The Starwars prequels? I've never seen them. The reviews were so bad, that I never bothered.

Now I go straight to spoilerville before buying anything gaming that is going to require emotional investment. A shooter that I'm not going to invest in that I'm only going to shoot crap online with friends for a few months, I'm just going to be concerned with mechanics and server lag, and I'm probably not even going to play the campaign unless its coop. A role playing game that is going to eat up more than 30 hrs and continue with a save game and I'm going to want to replay I want to know.

But this saying that just because the EC met expectations or exceeded expectations means it was good is like going into McDonalds and getting a Quarterpounder, expecting it to taste like **** and having it taste marginally better than that. It exceeded your expectations. It doesn't mean it was good by any stretch.

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Suicide is selfish. Sacrifice is selfless. That's the first flaw of equating the ending with suicide promotion.

You ever read a suicide note? A great many of them rationalize the act as "the best thing for everyone".

And there are different types. Emile Durkheim distinguishes four in his classic study, including the "altruistic" one.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 08:24 .

[Ledgend1221]

GimmeDaGun wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

It's objective that these endings are bad.
Saying otherwise is wrong.

How about this: It's objective that you are wrong... 

I hope you get that the joke is on you.


...people use this word so easily to enforce their opinion, or those who think alike. 

It is subjective that I am wrong.
It is objective that I am right.

Doesn't change the fact that the endings are retarded.

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Suicide is selfish. Sacrifice is selfless. That's the first flaw of equating the ending with suicide promotion.

You ever read a suicide note? A great many of them rationalize the act as "the best thing for everyone".

And there are different types. Emile Durkheim distinguishes four in his classic study, including the "altruistic" one.

That's how they try to rationalize it. That doesn't mean it's true. However, Shepard using the Crucible would objectively benefit the galaxy in that it would stop the harvest.

[Mastone]

Troxa wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

good one!

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

That's how they try to rationalize it. That doesn't mean it's true. However, Shepard using the Crucible would objectively benefit the galaxy in that it would stop the harvest.

And why does he have to die to use it?

"Lots of speculation from everyone."

That's what they came up with. In their personal notes, not just PR stuff. That's how they explained it to themselves.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 08:31 .

[AlanC9]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

I don't know the worldwide incidence of depression, but CDC stats show something like 10% of the adult population of the US struggle with it at least at times. With 3 million sales for ME3, that would translate to 300,000 depressive people internalizing this message through their avatar. It's not entirely preposterous to me to wonder if that's such a good message.

You're obviously not advocating massive censorship or even self-censorship. So what are you advocating?

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

That's how they try to rationalize it. That doesn't mean it's true. However, Shepard using the Crucible would objectively benefit the galaxy in that it would stop the harvest.

And why does he have to die to use it?

"Lots of speculation from everyone."

That's what they came up with. In their personal notes, not just PR stuff. That's how they explained it to themselves.

Well, he doesn't have to die in Destroy. Admittedly, Shepard dying (dare I say "ascension") in the Control and Synthesis ending fits the forced theme of transhumanism. It's, IMO, over done symbolism and I firmly believe the entire decision chamber scene should have been handled differently.

Also, I fail to see how "lots of speculation" translates well to your argument about how Bioware's ending is a clear promotion of suicide.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 12 mai 2013 - 08:39 .

[ImperatorMortis]

TheProtheans wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yeah, we're down to about 12 a day, over a year after release. Lots of folks have left.

Maybe because of these ******, repetitive threads? Man you people are annoying.

LinksOcarina wrote...

It would give me a warm sense of schadenfreude to see the next Mass Effect game, whatever it is, do well. Just so those who are outraged over something trivial continue to cry in their corners.

God, ive become such an ass in the past few months. Thank you BSN, I owe you for my transformation. 

My God, this. Definitely this. I hope ME4 does amazingly well in spite of the whiners. I don't even care how they make it. 

I should have known that pro-enders are anti-customer.

I'm not a "pro-ender", I'm an "anti-whiner".  The ending wasn't exactly good, but it was you guys who are partly responsible for sucking the fun out of Mass Effect. Not just the ending.  

Nothing like a thouand repititive threads ****ing about how they hate the ending, and mentioning over, and over how they won't buy ME4, and that others shouldn't. It was fine, and reasonable at first, but holy crap..

A year later? Get a life. 

Phew.. Needed to get that off my chest. 

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 12 mai 2013 - 08:45 .

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

I don't know the worldwide incidence of depression, but CDC stats show something like 10% of the adult population of the US struggle with it at least at times. With 3 million sales for ME3, that would translate to 300,000 depressive people internalizing this message through their avatar. It's not entirely preposterous to me to wonder if that's such a good message.

You're obviously not advocating massive censorship or even self-censorship. So what are you advocating?

Obviously I'm advocating some degree of Artistic Responsibility, in that the artists would take the form of their art into consideration when finishing their stories. 

[AlanC9]

SpamBot2000 wrote...


Obviously I'm advocating some degree of Artistic Responsibility, in that the artists would take the form of their art into consideration when finishing their stories. 

Meaning... what? Don't show that Bad Things can lead to good results, because the audience might get Bad Ideas? You going full Plato on this? Or maybe Leo Strauss is more on point.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 mai 2013 - 08:46 .

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Also, I fail to see how "lots of speculation" translates well to your argument about how Bioware's ending is a clear promotion of suicide.

It doesn't, it just shows that the death of Shepard was clearly a priority to them, but they failed to come up with a decent reason for it. So they figured it could be an exciting mystery.

The way they made the player take the dive was a separate issue.

[Iakus]

MegaSovereign wrote...

That's how they try to rationalize it. That doesn't mean it's true. However, Shepard using the Crucible would objectively benefit the galaxy in that it would stop the harvest.

Debatable.  Especially given some people do in fact prefer "Refuse", Biwoare troll and all.

I don't think the endings "promote suicide" though I do think they promote Sovereign's line from back in ME1:

"You exist because we allow it, and will end because we demand it"

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...


Obviously I'm advocating some degree of Artistic Responsibility, in that the artists would take the form of their art into consideration when finishing their stories. 

Meaning... what? Don't show that Bad Things can lead to good results, because the audience might get Bad Ideas? You going full Plato on this?

No, because only the Sith go full Plato. I just wish that alleged artists would have some respect for the power their work has, and not just use the status as a general waiver from responsibility.

Wow, Leo Strauss! Ouch. 

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 08:50 .

[PsyrenY]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

I'm not a "pro-ender", I'm an "anti-whiner".  The ending wasn't exactly good, but it was you guys who are partly responsible for sucking the fun out of Mass Effect. Not just the ending.  

Nothing like a thouand repititive threads ****ing about how they hate the ending, and mentioning over, and over how they won't buy ME4, and that others shouldn't. It was fine, and reasonable at first, but holy crap..

A year later? Get a life. 

Phew.. Needed to get that off my chest. 

[AlanC9]

How can you tell if an artist's "taken responsibility" or not?

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Also, I fail to see how "lots of speculation" translates well to your argument about how Bioware's ending is a clear promotion of suicide.

It doesn't, it just shows that the death of Shepard was clearly a priority to them, but they failed to come up with a decent reason for it. So they figured it could be an exciting mystery.

The way they made the player take the dive was a separate issue.

Or, you could take the jibberish on the page as a product of brainstorming. I'm not a writer but in my field I always write questions on scratch paper and use that as a focal point for brainstorming ideas. It's hardly a decent way to conclude the creator's intention or mindset. Seriously.

[Morlath]

SpamBot2000 wrote...
You are certainly free to do so, but totally denying this element strikes me as disingenuous. Think about it: many people have said that "Shepard's sacrifice" is fitting because he is clearly suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder, and his life is effectively "ruined". So, being the wreck that s/he is, there can be no way out for him/her that doesn't feel like "Disney".

I don't know the worldwide incidence of depression, but CDC stats show something like 10% of the adult population of the US struggle with it at least at times. With 3 million sales for ME3, that would translate to 300,000 depressive people internalizing this message through their avatar. It's not entirely preposterous to me to wonder if that's such a good message.

You have to be trolling.

A mother sacrifices herself for her child, a teacher sacrifces himself for his students, a man sacrifices himself so he can make sure a bomb goes off to save everyone in his unit. These are sacrifices not suicides from depression.

I can only assume you've never been personally touched with extreme depression or faced the reality of someone trying to/commiting suicide.

[Wayning_Star]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...


Obviously I'm advocating some degree of Artistic Responsibility, in that the artists would take the form of their art into consideration when finishing their stories. 

Meaning... what? Don't show that Bad Things can lead to good results, because the audience might get Bad Ideas? You going full Plato on this?

No, because only the Sith go full Plato. I just wish that alleged artists would have some respect for the power their work has, and not just use the status as a general waiver from responsibility.

Wow, Leo Strauss! Ouch. 

OR, just another ending antifan who wish to 'get their way' with the MEU trilogy... kind of depressing really...

[SpamBot2000]

AlanC9 wrote...

How can you tell if an artist's "taken responsibility" or not?

Well, it takes a skilled eye. Evaluative hermeneutics?

[Wayning_Star]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

How can you tell if an artist's "taken responsibility" or not?

Well, it takes a skilled eye. Evaluative hermeneutics?

to bee or not to bee a busy bee buzzing...lol