278 réponses à ce sujet

[SpamBot2000]

Morlath wrote...

I can only assume you've never been personally touched with extreme depression or faced the reality of someone trying to/commiting suicide.

That's clearly not the only assumption you can make. But do you really want to take this personal?

[Wayning_Star]

I worry more that if bioware doesn't do this again... I'm old.

[Morlath]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

That's clearly not the only assumption you can make. But do you really want to take this personal?

There is a very real difference between someone willing to die for someone else and someone wanting to die and using the excuse of it being for another.

[SpamBot2000]

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

That's clearly not the only assumption you can make. But do you really want to take this personal?

There is a very real difference between someone willing to die for someone else and someone wanting to die and using the excuse of it being for another.

Yes, and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling, with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 09:03 .

[GreyLycanTrope]

Optimystic_X wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

I'm not a "pro-ender", I'm an "anti-whiner".  The ending wasn't exactly good, but it was you guys who are partly responsible for sucking the fun out of Mass Effect. Not just the ending.  

Nothing like a thouand repititive threads ****ing about how they hate the ending, and mentioning over, and over how they won't buy ME4, and that others shouldn't. It was fine, and reasonable at first, but holy crap..

A year later? Get a life. 

Phew.. Needed to get that off my chest. 

Not sure if either of you noticed but the new threads that start on this topic tend to originate from either a new poster who just finished the game or from some one at bioware making a new comment on the matter.  This is a fresh batch of dissappointment which revives the old, but the topic was something the writers wanted us to discuss and not forget. Enjoy.

Modifié par Greylycantrope, 12 mai 2013 - 09:05 .

[Morlath]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes, and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling, with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

[SpamBot2000]

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes, and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling, with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

Well, he does walk into an explosion in the destroy ending. And revives enough to run to take the leap into the green beam, despite his injuries. That suggests enthusiasm.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 09:10 .

[TheProtheans]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

TheProtheans wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yeah, we're down to about 12 a day, over a year after release. Lots of folks have left.

Maybe because of these ******, repetitive threads? Man you people are annoying.

LinksOcarina wrote...

It would give me a warm sense of schadenfreude to see the next Mass Effect game, whatever it is, do well. Just so those who are outraged over something trivial continue to cry in their corners.

God, ive become such an ass in the past few months. Thank you BSN, I owe you for my transformation. 

My God, this. Definitely this. I hope ME4 does amazingly well in spite of the whiners. I don't even care how they make it. 

I should have known that pro-enders are anti-customer.

I'm not a "pro-ender", I'm an "anti-whiner".  The ending wasn't exactly good, but it was you guys who are partly responsible for sucking the fun out of Mass Effect. Not just the ending.  

Nothing like a thouand repititive threads ****ing about how they hate the ending, and mentioning over, and over how they won't buy ME4, and that others shouldn't. It was fine, and reasonable at first, but holy crap..

A year later? Get a life. 

Phew.. Needed to get that off my chest. 

I would still label you as a pro ender, or somewhere in between but closer to the pro ender side.
If you're not with us, you're against us.

Proudly I don't start many threads hating on the ending.
Power to me.

Modifié par TheProtheans, 12 mai 2013 - 09:11 .

[KingZayd]

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes, and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling, with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

actually that dive he makes when picking synthesis is pretty suggestive really. 

[Morlath]

KingZayd wrote...

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes, and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling, with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

actually that dive he makes when picking synthesis is pretty suggestive really. 

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes,
and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers
went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling,
with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part
of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to
save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at
no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

Well,
he does walk into an explosion in the destroy ending. And revives
enough to run to take the leap into the green beam, despite his
injuries. That suggests enthusiasm.

Yes. It shows he is absolutely determined to destroy the Reapers/end the threat that he is willing to sacrifice himself for it.

[SpamBot2000]

Morlath wrote...

Yes. It shows he is absolutely determined to destroy the Reapers/end the threat that he is willing to sacrifice himself for it.

That's just another interpretation, not an objective fact.

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes, and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling, with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

Well, he does walk into an explosion in the destroy ending. And revives enough to run to take the leap into the green beam, despite his injuries. That suggests enthusiasm.

Bah!! No. Just no. That does not suggest ethusiasm for suicide. Come on. It's symbolic of Shepard's eagerness to end the war. "Let's get this over with already."

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bah!! No. Just no. That does not suggest ethusiasm for suicide. Come on. It's symbolic of Shepard's eagerness to end the war. "Let's get this over with already."

Like I said to the other guy, that is an interpretation. Not a fact. And my comment on the end is another interpretation, that can clearly be made based on the material. You are free to disagree and criticize my interpretation, but you cannot simply dismiss it as "wrong".

[KingZayd]

Morlath wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes, and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling, with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

actually that dive he makes when picking synthesis is pretty suggestive really. 

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Morlath wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

Yes,
and which one do we have in ME3? That's far from clear. The writers
went to great lenghts to portray Shepard as psychologically unraveling,
with PTSD nightmares produced for this very purpose.

Part
of the psychological unraveling is due to the fact he is attempting to
save the galaxy. Yes, he's suffering PTSD/going in that direction but at
no point in the game does it suggest he wants to die.

Well,
he does walk into an explosion in the destroy ending. And revives
enough to run to take the leap into the green beam, despite his
injuries. That suggests enthusiasm.

Yes. It shows he is absolutely determined to destroy the Reapers/end the threat that he is willing to sacrifice himself for it.

Synthesis doesn't destroy the Reapers. Nor does it stop them from being a threat.

[SpamBot2000]

KingZayd wrote...

Synthesis doesn't destroy the Reapers. Nor does it stop them from being a threat.

And neither does Control.

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bah!! No. Just no. That does not suggest ethusiasm for suicide. Come on. It's symbolic of Shepard's eagerness to end the war. "Let's get this over with already."

Like I said to the other guy, that is an interpretation. Not a fact. And my comment on the end is another interpretation, that can clearly be made based on the material. You are free to disagree and criticize my interpretation, but you cannot simply dismiss it as "wrong".

You can't pull that card when you've been trying to convince me that Bioware had the clear intent of suicide promotion. Yes, it's an interpretation..that's the point. That doesn't mean that Bioware intended for you to draw, IMO, a ridiculous conclusion.

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

You can't pull that card when you've been trying to convince me that Bioware had the clear intent of suicide promotion. Yes, it's an interpretation..that's the point. That doesn't mean that Bioware intended for you to draw, IMO, a ridiculous conclusion.

It seems that BioWare didn't know/care what conclusion anyone would draw. And I haven't been trying to convince you of their intent, clear or otherwise. I was trying to convince you that it is possible to see it in those terms, based on what there is present in the work. And I think I made a decent case. 

[SpamBot2000]

Also, there is no such award as "Terminal Cross of the Hemlock Society". I made it up. To make a point.

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 09:31 .

[Wayning_Star]

imsodepressedrightnow

[SpamBot2000]

Wayning_Star wrote...

imsodepressedrightnow

Me too. 

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 09:33 .

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

You can't pull that card when you've been trying to convince me that Bioware had the clear intent of suicide promotion. Yes, it's an interpretation..that's the point. That doesn't mean that Bioware intended for you to draw, IMO, a ridiculous conclusion.

It seems that BioWare didn't know/care what conclusion anyone would draw. And I haven't been trying to convince you of their intent, clear or otherwise. I was trying to convince you that it is possible to see it in those terms, based on what there is present in the work. And I think I made a decent case. 

You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that the ending is trying to break the fourth wall and is deliberately promoting suicide.

Lack of narrative cohesion and thematic contradictions are actual issues. An ending that might be open enough for people to draw different conclusions about the meaning of life is not.

[SpamBot2000]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Lack of narrative cohesion and thematic contradictions are actual issues. An ending that might be open enough for people to draw different conclusions about the meaning of life is not.

That's where I sincerely disagree. The game does portray your efforts as mostly futile. In the end, it comes to accepting an order of beings above you, who dictate your choices to you. It is easy enough to draw parallels to life. Even to our favorite pastimes. 

I find it profoundly depressing. 

Modifié par SpamBot2000, 12 mai 2013 - 09:39 .

[jstme]

MegaSovereign wrote...

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bah!! No. Just no. That does not suggest ethusiasm for suicide. Come on. It's symbolic of Shepard's eagerness to end the war. "Let's get this over with already."

Like I said to the other guy, that is an interpretation. Not a fact. And my comment on the end is another interpretation, that can clearly be made based on the material. You are free to disagree and criticize my interpretation, but you cannot simply dismiss it as "wrong".

You can't pull that card when you've been trying to convince me that Bioware had the clear intent of suicide promotion. Yes, it's an interpretation..that's the point. That doesn't mean that Bioware intended for you to draw, IMO, a ridiculous conclusion.

When speculations are the goal and execution is vague, full of symbolism ,in sharp contrast to rest of the story and introducing a certain new character that is in control of the situation -various rediculous conclusions will pop like mushrooms after the rain. While nobody knows for certain what Bioware really intended, Bioware had to anticipate that this will be the result.
Can someone interpretate Mordin sacrifice as suicide? I doubt it very much. There is no symbolism in that scene,no glowing Wreav telling Mordin how to sacrifice himself better and even the lack of reason why tower had to explode does not hurt the scene.
Shepard "sacrifice" was written ,ehm, differently.  

[chemiclord]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

It seems that BioWare didn't know/care what conclusion anyone would draw. And I haven't been trying to convince you of their intent, clear or otherwise. I was trying to convince you that it is possible to see it in those terms, based on what there is present in the work. And I think I made a decent case. 

A creator can't worry about how people are going to interpret their work.  That is completely out of their hands.  That's like saying Thomas Harris didn't care if people interpreted Silence of the Lambs as advocating becoming a serial killer.  That's an insane accusation to level.

[MegaSovereign]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Lack of narrative cohesion and thematic contradictions are actual issues. An ending that might be open enough for people to draw different conclusions about the meaning of life is not.

That's where I sincerely disagree. The game does portray your efforts as mostly futile. In the end, it comes to accepting an order of beings above you, who dictate your choices to you. It is easy enough to draw parallels to life. Even to our favorite pastimes. 

I find it profoundly depressing. 

Funny you say that. How I view it, the Crucible represents the efforts of the opponents of the status quo. And the choices themselves are not the Catalyst's, so there is no dictation.  The Crucible changed its conclusion about how it does its business, and it let's you decide where to take it from here since Shepard, through his journey, has a certain perspective that might qualify him to make such decision (similar to how Legion let Shepard decide how to handle the Geth Heretics).  I found the Crucible to be one of the most poetic plot devices of the trilogy, despite the fact that its introduction and context could have been handled better.

What I didn't like was the anti-climatic info dump and the actual reason the Reapers harvest. As well as the fantasy elements behind Synthesis and the ridiculous symbolism.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 12 mai 2013 - 09:52 .