21 réponses à ce sujet

[Pubknight]

Was just curious what the consensus was re: archery sustains.
There are some sustains for other characters I consider auto-ons... for example, Shale in Tank mode, Stoneheart is always on.
My mage will have one of the weapon buffs (frost, telekinetic, etc) always on.

But for an archer (for me, Leliana) I'm not so sure the sustains, Aim, Rapid Fire, Suppressing Fire, etc, are worth it for their stamina overhead. 
Of any, I'm thinking *maybe* Aim, but I just don't know.

I've read some stuff that says to have Rapid Fire always on, but I don't know why you would give up critical hit chances.
Any insight or thoughts folks could share on this subject would be welcome.
Thanks in advance.

[mosspit]

You can try to spam all the skills you want before turning on your sustainables. In fact, how about tatics: stamina < 25% Activate mode "Insert Ability"?



Rapid shot can be a fair tradeoff as range crit% is quite low. Over time, the damge from atk spd can more than compensate for the increase in dmg from connect crits.

[Tryst]

Suppressing Fire is a decent one for bosses, the attack debuff stacks with itself. Rapid Fire does not stack with the Rapid Aim that is on items, making it relatively useless. I find Aim's attack speed penalty is far worse than the bonuses it gives.

[Addai]

I don't use them myself. Shale has a mode which increases ranged critical chance for nearby party members.

[SusanStoHelit]

Suppressing fire is the only one worth bothering with imo, and only for some situations.

[krsboss]

...I just finished a playthrough as an archer. Basically the only sustain I would use, but have on constantly, was Rapid Fire. Firing in any other mode was just way too depressing, watching him slowly place an arrow on the string then wobble around aiming!



The critical chance on archery is so bad anyway, going from 1% to 0% is hardly a loss right! If you are a stealth based archer anyway (or giving Leliana 3-4 stealth talents & adding it to combat tactics) you will be doing backstab damage as you come out of stealth!

[soteria]

I'm told that if you have the willpower to use a lot of specials, turning Aim on can be worthwhile since special shots take longer to activate already. I still haven't played as an archer PC, though. It just seems too much like a mage without all the power. I'll do it eventually.

[Ingahootz]

krsboss wrote...

...I just finished a playthrough as an archer. Basically the only sustain I would use, but have on constantly, was Rapid Fire. Firing in any other mode was just way too depressing, watching him slowly place an arrow on the string then wobble around aiming!

The critical chance on archery is so bad anyway, going from 1% to 0% is hardly a loss right! If you are a stealth based archer anyway (or giving Leliana 3-4 stealth talents & adding it to combat tactics) you will be doing backstab damage as you come out of stealth!

Ummm... Leliana in my current play through has a 7.6% chance to crit. With Aim up she has a 13.6% chance to crit (which isn't exactly terrible and definitely not the difference between 1% and 0%).

Aim also makes her damage jump from 52.6 to 55.6 and her attack goes up from 95 to 110. The difference in damage is also factoring in the attack speed loss. If you look at the spell Haste, it increases the damage value as well (while not adding any actual damage aside from attack speed). So over all you gain an extra 3 damage over time with Aim up despite attacking slower.

There's absolutely no point to using Rapid Shot if a bow has Rapid Aim on it already. You gain a lot more benefit from turning on Aim rather than Rapid Fire for a very minor increase in attack speed over the bow's Rapid Aim.

Honestly you're probably best off dumping all of your stamina on abilities as an archer then turning on your sustained.

Modifié par Ingahootz, 16 janvier 2010 - 10:20 .

[krsboss]

Ingahootz wrote...

Ummm... Leliana in my current play through has a 7.6% chance to crit. With Aim up she has a 13.6% chance to crit (which isn't exactly terrible and definitely not the difference between 1% and 0%).

I would guess that you were using some gear to boost her critical chance. My archer's critical chance was 3.6% regularly and 5.6% with aim, whilst attack goes up from 120 to 132 and damage going up from 53.0 to 56.0. However using the aim mode significantly reduces attack speed, so you are firing arrows less often!

I used the Falon'Din's Reach longbow for most of the game which has the rapid aim property, however it didn't really seem to make much difference. In the 'aim' sustainable I would fire an arrow approximately every 4s whilst in rapid shot I would fire an arrow every 1s. This means that in the same time as a potentially critical 'aimed' arrow to do 50+ or maybe 80+ on a crit, I could do over 200 damage with 'rapid shotted' arrows...

...plus, as this was a rogue based archer I'd be coming out of stealth at every opportunity, so any loss of critical hits was made up by enjoyable backstab damage!

...so over all you gain an extra 3 damage over time with Aim up despite attacking slower...

the increased rate of fire from rapid shot is not reflected on the character sheet. This can be seen by turning it on or off and seeing no change in the damage figure...

[Atmosfear3]

I don't know about you guys but my Leliana was a beast in one of my playthroughs. Did virtually 20% of total damage since I brought her with me everywhere (I also kept my party the same for the most part the entire game).



Song of Courage

Cap off High Dragon

Far Song



She would hover around 21% crit before Aim. With Aim her crit increased to around 36%. If Shale was around with the ranged aura, her crit shot up to 50%.

[irememberwheniwasawoman]

 i myself play an archering Rogue.

I use rapid fire (very helpful) though on boss fights i use suppressing fire, sometimes rapid fire as well (so 2 sustains)

[Fieryeel]

I have no idea what's the issue with Aim.



The difference between Aim and Rapid Shot for me is...not noticeable.



Rapid Shot = fire a shot every sec.



Aim = fire a shot every 1.5 sec.



In short, I still fire pretty darn fast, and to top it off, my crit is a nice 18%.



Doesn't aim make your shots go at 1.5 sec each? My frens were complaining about slow shots too, but when I look at Leliana, she fires really quickly with aim on.

[Ingahootz]

krsboss wrote...

Ingahootz wrote...

Ummm... Leliana in my current play through has a 7.6% chance to crit. With Aim up she has a 13.6% chance to crit (which isn't exactly terrible and definitely not the difference between 1% and 0%).

I would guess that you were using some gear to boost her critical chance. My archer's critical chance was 3.6% regularly and 5.6% with aim, whilst attack goes up from 120 to 132 and damage going up from 53.0 to 56.0. However using the aim mode significantly reduces attack speed, so you are firing arrows less often!

I used the Falon'Din's Reach longbow for most of the game which has the rapid aim property, however it didn't really seem to make much difference. In the 'aim' sustainable I would fire an arrow approximately every 4s whilst in rapid shot I would fire an arrow every 1s. This means that in the same time as a potentially critical 'aimed' arrow to do 50+ or maybe 80+ on a crit, I could do over 200 damage with 'rapid shotted' arrows...

...plus, as this was a rogue based archer I'd be coming out of stealth at every opportunity, so any loss of critical hits was made up by enjoyable backstab damage!

...so over all you gain an extra 3 damage over time with Aim up despite attacking slower...

the increased rate of fire from rapid shot is not reflected on the character sheet. This can be seen by turning it on or off and seeing no change in the damage figure...

The last part is true, I just checked. However, I did mention that there's no point to using rapid fire when you have rapid aim on your bow already. Rapid aim reduces the shots in between arrows by 0.1 per item power (the power of the bow, ie: tier). The difference between Rapid Fire with Archer Mastery vs Rapid Aim on a tier 7 bow is next to nothing. There is no point in activating Rapid Fire if you have a bow with Rapid Aim.

You are much better off activating AIM. It will give you a much larger boost to your damage using any bow with Rapid Aim. Also, you're exaggerating your claim on bow fire speed. It is not a difference between firing 4s a shot or 1s a shot. Rapid Fire is -0.3s off of your shots, and AIM does not increase the time between shots by 2s. Also keep in mind that by turning on Rapid Fire on a bow with Rapid Aim, you are making it so that you cannot inflict regular crits. Perhaps your crit chance was very low, but AIM increased my crit chance by 6%, upping it to 13.6%... which is extremely nice.

Also, if you have a mage with Haste you can use that to offset the attack speed reduction of Aim. Haste effects have a cap as well (and I'm fairly certain Rapid Aim + Aim + Haste = haste cap). So in the end with that spell you'll end up firing at max speed anyways.

Regardless of whether or not you use Haste... Rapid Aim and Rapid Fire do not stack, so using them both is quite silly.

[Ingahootz]

Fieryeel wrote...

I have no idea what's the issue with Aim.

The difference between Aim and Rapid Shot for me is...not noticeable.

Rapid Shot = fire a shot every sec.

Aim = fire a shot every 1.5 sec.

In short, I still fire pretty darn fast, and to top it off, my crit is a nice 18%.

Doesn't aim make your shots go at 1.5 sec each? My frens were complaining about slow shots too, but when I look at Leliana, she fires really quickly with aim on.

Most of the slow shots come from activated abilities. That's probably what your friends are complaining about without realizing that their archer is winding up a special, and not firing a normal shot.

[Tryst]

Pretty sure Aim adds 1.5 seconds to each shot. I don't have the toolset anymore, so can't double check at the moment, but just running a timer while using autoshots with Leliana and her bow from Marjolaine, I'm getting in that neighborhood.

[Kipferl]

Using a bow, do you get auto-crits when attacking out of stealth as DW rogues do?

[mosspit]

Kipferl wrote...

Using a bow, do you get auto-crits when attacking out of stealth as DW rogues do?

Yes. But only if the out-of-stealth hit connects.

[ArathWoeeye]

Can they "backstab" from range? If they are hitting from behind?

[mosspit]

Without considering mods, no ranged backstabs.

[Bekter]

Ranged is gimped in vanilla. I suggest the Improved Archery mod. I got it off Dragon Age Nexus but I think the creator might have taken all of his work down. You should check though, it's well worth it.

[Kipferl]

Better Archery is gone.
By the way, does Haste work for archers and can I somehow get runes on my bow?

Modifié par Kipferl, 22 janvier 2010 - 02:21 .

[Sir Kalkanor]

i think (not sure) haste + bows is bugged

i have read someplace that it lowers attack speed....