53 réponses à ce sujet

[landylan]

Fitness will save your life many times from collector captains... It let's you take that extra bullet. Most the videos of "good" players that show builds always recommend cyclonic noobulators, so even the experts think shields are important.

The way I look at things is that I have three powers, and I can only benefit from one at a time. Fitness helps everytime I get shot.

[Deerber]

landylan wrote...

Most the videos of "good" players that show builds always recommend cyclonic noobulators, so even the experts think shields are important.

... What kind of "good" players are we talking about? Cause it's been ages since I've seen a very good player making a vid and reccomending a cyclonic on stuff that is not a vanguard/something that gets shot 90% of the time.

Modifié par Deerber, 12 mai 2013 - 12:39 .

[Draining Dragon]

Fitness would probably fall under Strength and Constitution.

[Dr.Sid]

Try it .. it really depends on how good you are .. but I take any fitness I can for platinum. With flimsy characters I juts die without even knowing what got me.

[Fortack]

N7Kopper wrote...

Even just three points nets you a solid 250 HP and 20%+ melee damage on an Alliance marine, and oftentimes more HP than that.

The 25% shield & health bonus nets 125 points (fitness rank 3), not 250.

Deerber wrote...

landylan wrote...

Most the
videos of "good" players that show builds always recommend cyclonic
noobulators, so even the experts think shields are important.

...
What kind of "good" players are we talking about? Cause it's been ages
since I've seen a very good player making a vid and reccomending a
cyclonic on stuff that is not a vanguard/something that gets shot 90% of
the time.

What else, besides Adrenaline Modules, should one use then? The Stability Mod? Power Efficiency?
Unfortunately most other options are garbage so taking the extra 150% shields is never a bad idea. Those Cyclonics are what makes fitness kinda pointless - why waste points on it when you can get 3 times that much shields anyway.

[Deerber]

Fortack wrote...

Deerber wrote...

landylan wrote...

Most the
videos of "good" players that show builds always recommend cyclonic
noobulators, so even the experts think shields are important.

...
What kind of "good" players are we talking about? Cause it's been ages
since I've seen a very good player making a vid and reccomending a
cyclonic on stuff that is not a vanguard/something that gets shot 90% of
the time.

What else, besides Adrenaline Modules, should one use then? The Stability Mod? Power Efficiency?
Unfortunately most other options are garbage so taking the extra 150% shields is never a bad idea. Those Cyclonics are what makes fitness kinda pointless - why waste points on it when you can get 3 times that much shields anyway.

My personal take is:

Adrenalines and power amplifiers mainly. Also shield power cells and stab mods on selected kits/loadouts.

Cyclonics are for stuff that can't get away with not being shot much, i.e. most vanguards, krogan, turian sometimes and in general kits without a dodge, which I don't play much anyway.

[stysiaq]

Generally speaking, a lot of enemies will 3-shot you no matter what. On such characters Fitness isn't the best investment.

But the fitness is sometimes better than a power tree or passives, like on Krogan Sentinels.

So it depends, there are a few rules of the thumb, but I don't think that anyone will have some problem with figuring them out.

[OniGanon]

BSN seems to love claiming Fitness is completely unnecessary because 'those shields won't save you on higher difficulties.' Because BSN is full of people who never get shot, ever.

Here's what I know:

0 Fitness means I die constantly whenever something with a gun looks in my general direction. There's a Cannibal somewhere on my screen? I fall over dead. No shield gate or anything, I'm just dead before I even know what hit me.

Rank 4 Fitness means I can usually survive incidental gunfire long enough to find cover.

So I take Fitness to at least Rank 5 on every class that doesn't have any shield restoration (they get Fitness Rank 4) and doesn't have Tactical Cloak (Fitness Rank 3).

Draining Dragon wrote...

Fitness would probably fall under Strength and Constitution.

It probably contributes to Charisma a little bit too...

[billy the squid]

On Gold and Platinum you'll be relying on shield gate anyway, although DoT will screw no fitness builds over royally.

Usually I go with 3/4 ranks in fitness, I don't often feel it necessary to go further into the tree. The 11 extra points can go to max out another power, or put a few ranks into it for a detonator, like carnage/ Inferno grenades. Or 25% DR for blade armour. Even on a Krogan soldier. I'll take rank 5 and 6 out of fitness in favour of maxing out either Barrier or Fortification. The Krogans with only 4 ranks of fitness have 1550 shields anyway, and with 30% DR from barrier and power synergy. I don't like having to spend 5 points to get to rank 6 Fitness.

No dodge characters I go with 4 ranks, dodge characters I go with 3, simply so I don't get OHK by a Banshee/ Atlas DoT. Kits with DR powers I try to go 4 ranks into fitness to get more out of the Fitness and DR, if I can.

[Ziegrif]

I always put 3 rank in fitness no matter the kit.
In some cases it's there just for moral support.

[OneCoolCow]

I think that shield recharge is most important to survivability, I would take shield power cells over a cyclonic any day of the week.   

[HoochieHamiltoe]

I run full fitness on the majority of my kits. It lets me play my aggressive style. that I wouldn't be able to do if I took points out of it.

[Ziegrif]

OneCoolCow wrote...

I think that shield recharge is most important to survivability, I would take shield power cells over a cyclonic any day of the week.   

Scions, Praetorians and Banshees ruin your day though. But against geth it's a really good alternative to just mass shields as long as you know how to soft cover and hard cover at opportune times.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

 Wisma.

No, sorry, I meant Dogdom.

[OneCoolCow]

Ziegrif wrote...

OneCoolCow wrote...

I think that shield recharge is most important to survivability, I would take shield power cells over a cyclonic any day of the week.   

Scions, Praetorians and Banshees ruin your day though. But against geth it's a really good alternative to just mass shields as long as you know how to soft cover and hard cover at opportune times.

Even with the most shields possible, you still we get down to health sometimes.  But as a class that cannot have thousands of sheilds that happens a lot more often, so if they can come back very quickly, when you need it then its the best option.  

[Titus Thongger]

always full fitness on krogan

melee fitness for smashdepts/guards

characters with 500 base sheilds I usually put 3 fitness (or none)

characters with 750 base shields who cant dodge will usually get 4 fitness

[Ziegrif]

OneCoolCow wrote...
Even with the most shields possible, you still we get down to health sometimes.  But as a class that cannot have thousands of sheilds that happens a lot more often, so if they can come back very quickly, when you need it then its the best option.  

But you won't get Shield gate back. The gate is actually stopping a lot of dmg from going through meaning a Scion that hits all 3 shots home will ruin your day even if you  start regenerating shields. It's a small buffer that works on tankier kits and kits that use shields and barriers for powers if you're speccing out of something that gets them back up.

In solos it can save you as long as the things shooting at you have relatively low one shot dmg.
In a team it makes you practically invincible at times.

Modifié par Ziegrif, 12 mai 2013 - 02:56 .

[Veno CRX]

ToLazy4Name wrote...

Depends on the character.

This and playstyle... host and of host have quite an influence aswell. Hosting all my charecters apart from none dodging are fitnessles.

[OneCoolCow]

Ziegrif wrote...

OneCoolCow wrote...
Even with the most shields possible, you still we get down to health sometimes.  But as a class that cannot have thousands of sheilds that happens a lot more often, so if they can come back very quickly, when you need it then its the best option.  

But you won't get Shield gate back. The gate is actually stopping a lot of dmg from going through meaning a Scion that hits all 3 shots home will ruin your day even if you  start regenerating shields. It's a small buffer that works on tankier kits and kits that use shields and barriers for powers if you're speccing out of something that gets them back up.

In solos it can save you as long as the things shooting at you have relatively low one shot dmg.
In a team it makes you practically invincible at times.

I c where u r cummming from but if you are not a tankier kit then you aren't gonna be standing in teh open and getting hit by all of this stuff, just some of it, and so when you run away you can come back faster after regening faster, sometimes it is as little as stepping behind some soft cover and reloading.  I have to go do something, so we shall continue this later.

[FMultimedia]

First of all, kits with higher basic health / shields (krogans, batarians, turians, etc.) or some manner of dmg res (tech armor, etc.), will definately benefit more from fitness.

Second, yes, cyclonic will do more for you than fitness. But if you plan to run cyclonic anyway, and maybe some shield gear (stronghold, shield etc.), then the extra fitness might well make a big difference.

The logic behind having no/low fitness is that you're gonna get gated from single shots anyway, so why bother (Eg, very true for volus). But when you start coupling other factors, as mentioned above (higher health kits, health gear/equip), the thresholds start to change, and though a single phantom shot was gonna kill you before no matter your fitness, after putting gear on, you might withstand two before getting gated. With even 100 or 200 extra health, that might go to three shots - and THAT makes a hell of a difference.

Also, there's plenty of weaker mooks that will shoot at you and that will NOT gate you in the first hit (the bugs from ravagers, husk grabs, trooper shots...). There's always Damage over Time - fire from abomination explosions, bashee warp balls, ravager acidic pools, etc. - that will definately show that even the smallest scrap of health counts. I remember playing a drell build that could hardly run through a ravager pool with getting downed. That also makes a difference in how many miliseconds you can withstand pyro's flamers...

For me particularly, I find that a slightly better health will help me especially when I get cornered and need to run from a mix of mooks and bosses. Often, if I have higher health (even slightly), I see the shots hitting me while I'm fleeing, gating me, hitting me again and again, gating me again and I finally get to cover at health gate. Lower health, I might fall before I get halfway through. Again, this depends higly on skill level, field awareness, etc.

Last but definately not least, see this post, the best one I've seen so far on the topic.

Modifié par FMultimedia, 12 mai 2013 - 03:02 .

[Fortack]

OniGanon wrote...

0 Fitness means I die constantly whenever something with a gun looks in my general direction. There's a Cannibal somewhere on my screen? I fall over dead. No shield gate or anything, I'm just dead before I even know what hit me.

Rank 4 Fitness means I can usually survive incidental gunfire long enough to find cover.

So I take Fitness to at least Rank 5 on every class that doesn't have any shield restoration (they get Fitness Rank 4) and doesn't have Tactical Cloak (Fitness Rank 3).

If you don't use Cyclonics those points in fitness do make small difference in a couple situations, not much though. When you slap on a Cyclonic IV those points are pretty much wasted. You also have 6-9 Ops packs for emergencies. Consumables have made investing in fitness for health and shields close to redundant for most kits with low base health & shields.

[baldmop]

You go with 4 in fitness it sort of the best of both worlds most my builds go 66644 except when I go with krogan melee build then fitness gets 6 .

[Arctican]

On some characters, having a little fitness is useful in surviving DoT attacks without using the Ops Pack. Investing in the first three ranks is always not a bad choice.

[OniGanon]

Fortack wrote...
If you don't use Cyclonics those points in fitness do make small difference in a couple situations, not much though.

A small difference, yes. But the difference between death and a fraction of one bar of health is only a small difference; one that changes the game. And I find Fitness provides exactly that difference, many many times.

It's not 'a couple situations.' It is every time you get shot with automatic fire from infantry, any time a Phantom is on the screen, any time you're hit with a Banshee Warp ball or run through Ravager goo, any time you have a Geth Turret spawned behind you...

There are a great many things that you can only really survive due to shield gate, which Fitness does not help much with. However, I find that a lot of the things that kill you in this game give zero damns about your shield gate. That's why Fitness matters.

Fortack wrote...
When you slap on a Cyclonic IV those points are pretty much wasted. You also have 6-9 Ops packs for emergencies. Consumables have made investing in fitness for health and shields close to redundant for most kits with low base health & shields.

I don't know about you, but I don't have unlimited Cyclonics. I prefer that all my setups can survive regardless of consumables, and I mostly reserve Cyclonics for beefy characters that can get a lot of mileage out of them.

For squishier classes, I much prefer to crank up their Fitness and use Shield Power Cells.

[7Links]

500 shields doesn't equal 800 shields. Less health and shields means you will use cover more often.
But who cares! I'm new here and I see a lot of BSNers are like "U noobz, I play without fitness and im outscoring even my friands". Seems like you have your own atmosphere. I can tell that if you're playing with laggy host without cyclonic, you screwed.
Sorry fo mai english.