114 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

In my opinion, the last truly great game BW made was ME2.

And in case you haven't noticed, there are quite a few people on this very board who disagree with you on even that.

[Il Divo]

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

In my opinion, the last truly great game BW made was ME2.

And in case you haven't noticed, there are quite a few people on this very board who disagree with you on even that.

Yep. Anyone who remembers Smudboy can attest to that.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Anyway, so what era of games do people here think was the best era for bioware quality? The baulder's gate era? The neverwinter era? KOTOR's time? Mass effect and origin era?

[Il Divo]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Anyway, so what era of games do people here think was the best era for bioware quality? The baulder's gate era? The neverwinter era? KOTOR's time? Mass effect and origin era?

BG1-NwN in my opinion were very weak (BG2 to a lesser extent).

KotOR and Jade Empire are my top two Bioware games. Maybe not so coincedentally, they were also my first.

ME1 had a great main story, but felt lackluster otherwise (gameplay, exploration, characters, etc).

ME2 and DA:O were absolute delights to play through, almost as good as KotOR and JE.

ME3's autodialogue and ending were extremely disappointing, but was memorable otherwise. And DA2 was a fun, but unexceptional, distraction.

Modifié par Il Divo, 13 mai 2013 - 05:13 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

In my opinion, the last truly great game BW made was ME2.

And in case you haven't noticed, there are quite a few people on this very board who disagree with you on even that.

Well, that's their problem. I love ME2. I personally think it's the best game of all time. I understand that some people hate it. I'm not going to rain on their parade, so I'd hope they let me enjoy it in peace.

I'll join them in hating ME3. That was a severe disappointment as far as BW and Mass Effect goes.

[Beerfish]

There has always been an element that hated BioWare. One just had to go over to the immature sewer called the RPGCodex forums to see that. However they simply didn't have a real leg to stand on in the grand scheme of things when BioWare was putting out great titles and the fans loved them.

Once some of the loyal fans got on their case re DA2 and ME3 it opened up the doors of hades so that BioWare could be blasted to kingdom come.

[dreamgazer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'll join them in hating ME3. That was a severe disappointment as far as BW and Mass Effect goes.

Ah, but keep in mind that there are also posters on here who feel that ME3's writing is a step in the right direction after the Collector "pointlessness" of ME2---established, long-haul ME players. 

(laughs)

Look, I think the writing in ME3 dipped in quality as well (I think I finally landed on a 70 out of 100 the last time I thought it over), but there's nothing black and white about this whole situation.

[AllThatJazz]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Anyway, so what era of games do people here think was the best era for bioware quality? The baulder's gate era? The neverwinter era? KOTOR's time? Mass effect and origin era?

Honestly, I don't think there's been an 'era'. All BW titles have had strengths and weaknesses, which you prefer depends on the kind of priorities you have (gameplay mechanics, RPG 'depth', characters, storytelling etc). In terms of stories and characters, I would say their weakest titles were BG1 and NWN, as well as DA2's third Act , the end of ME3 (which I otherwise loved), and ME2 purely in terms of story (its characters were very well done). In terms of RPG 'depth', I would argue that ME2 is the weakest (even though it's one of my all time favourite games). Gameplay-wise I found DA2, ME1 and JE to be lacking in places, although I still enjoyed the titles overall.

[dreamgazer]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Anyway, so what era of games do people here think was the best era for bioware quality? The baulder's gate era? The neverwinter era? KOTOR's time? Mass effect and origin era?

Honestly, I don't think there's been an 'era'. All BW titles have had strengths and weaknesses, which you prefer depends on the kind of priorities you have (gameplay mechanics, RPG 'depth', characters, storytelling etc). In terms of stories and characters, I would say their weakest titles were BG1 and NWN, as well as DA2's third Act , the end of ME3 (which I otherwise loved), and ME2 purely in terms of story (its characters were very well done). In terms of RPG 'depth', I would argue that ME2 is the weakest (even though it's one of my all time favourite games). Gameplay-wise I found DA2, ME1 and JE to be lacking in places, although I still enjoyed the titles overall.

[MegaSovereign]

Well...I only joined the boards during the ME2 days. Yes, there was a pretty dedicate group of naysayers who criticized ME2 for being "dumbed down" mechanically in comparison to ME1. And then you had smudboy and his supporters who criticized the writing. I'll say that ME3's controversy sparked more rage than ME2 ever did, but that's only because ME3's biggest perceived flaws aren't mechanical like ME2's are.

It's just the nature of the beast, though. Big, mainstream developers like Bioware are always going to have a "fanbase" who criticizes them for "selling out." There will still be Bioware hate for DA3 and ME4. That's guaranteed. I never quite understood it though. No one is subscribed to developers. There isn't a 5-10 year contract where you had to buy their games. If the next ME game ends up being crap then you can bet your sweet tail that I'm not going to buy it.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 13 mai 2013 - 07:23 .

[FedericoV]

Ninja Stan wrote...

I have been here on the forums through it all and it is one of the reasons I try to add a little perspective to some of the discussions regarding BioWare, EA, and the state of games and the industry.

I've followed Bioware's forums since Baldur's Gate. I've seens things you people woldn't believe. I've read Volourn's posts before he became a troll. I've read Gaider's goodbye on the codex. And I've seen the evil one banning poor old Gronmir from the boards. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to d-EA .

Seriously: as a long time member of Bioware's community, I agree with most of your points. Only most... maybe is rose colored glasses but I believe that during your "nerdy" D&D years (from BG1 to NWN) the community was more friendly, open and positive. There were negative posts, off course... but the overall atmosphere was good.

Now, I don't even know if there's a community anymore. 

Things has gotten worse since you opened to the consolle market and became as big as you are now. There's strenght in number... but even for the negative things. There's a little we can do: that's how the things work. Still, it's a shame to know that the Bioware I was in love with does not exist anymore. 

Having said that, what's happened with DA2 rushed development cycle and ME3 ending is different in magnitude and scope. They both smell like EA faults. And it would be wrong to put those things on the same level of some nerdy rant about elves bonus on AD&D .

Modifié par FedericoV, 13 mai 2013 - 07:23 .

[Seboist]

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'll join them in hating ME3. That was a severe disappointment as far as BW and Mass Effect goes.

Ah, but keep in mind that there are also posters on here who feel that ME3's writing is a step in the right direction after the Collector "pointlessness" of ME2---established, long-haul ME players. 

(laughs)

Look, I think the writing in ME3 dipped in quality as well (I think I finally landed on a 70 out of 100 the last time I thought it over), but there's nothing black and white about this whole situation.

ME2 was so pointless that it was pointless in the context of itself let alone the overarching one. There was no compelling reason to recruit anyone but Mordin and the daddy issue loyalty missions had nothing to do with anything.

ME3 is without question the best ME in the trilogy in terms of gameplay(can't even roll or go from cover to cover in ME1/2) and it actually had a story and one that advanced the reaper plot unlike 2.

ME2 fanboys have no leg to stand on against ME3 at all.

[AllThatJazz]

FedericoV wrote...

Ninja Stan wrote...

I have been here on the forums through it all and it is one of the reasons I try to add a little perspective to some of the discussions regarding BioWare, EA, and the state of games and the industry.

I've followed Bioware's forums since Baldur's Gate. I've seens things you people woldn't believe. I've read Volourn's posts before he became a troll. I've read Gaider's goodbye on the codex. And I've seen the evil one banning poor old Gronmir from the boards. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to d-EA[/b] .

Seriously: as a long time member of Bioware's community, I agree with most of your points. Only most... maybe is rose colored glasses but I believe that during your "nerdy" D&D years (from BG1 to NWN) the community was more friendly, open and positive. There were negative posts, off course... but the overall atmosphere was good.

Now, I don't even know if there's a community anymore. 

Things has gotten worse since you opened to the consolle market and became as big as you are now. There's strenght in number... but even for the negative things. There's a little we can do: that's how the things work. Still, it's a shame to know that the Bioware I was in love with does not exist anymore. 

Having said that, what's happened with DA2 rushed development cycle and ME3 ending is different in magnitude and scope. They both smell like EA faults. And it would be wrong to put those things on the same level of some nerdy rant about elves bonus on AD&D .

Do nerds dream of magic elven sheep?

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 13 mai 2013 - 07:30 .

[DeathScepter]

EntropicAngel wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Well, that's their problem. I love ME2. I personally think it's the best game of all time. I understand that some people hate it. I'm not going to rain on their parade, so I'd hope they let me enjoy it in peace.

I'll join them in hating ME3. That was a severe disappointment as far as BW and Mass Effect goes.

If you want people to let you enjoy ME2 in peace, why can't we enjoy ME3 in peace?

You can't let us enjoy ME2 it is not allow. it is unethical. For it is Cerberus.  

[DeathScepter]

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I'll join them in hating ME3. That was a severe disappointment as far as BW and Mass Effect goes.

Ah, but keep in mind that there are also posters on here who feel that ME3's writing is a step in the right direction after the Collector "pointlessness" of ME2---established, long-haul ME players. 

(laughs)

Look, I think the writing in ME3 dipped in quality as well (I think I finally landed on a 70 out of 100 the last time I thought it over), but there's nothing black and white about this whole situation.

ME2 was so pointless that it was pointless in the context of itself let alone the overarching one. There was no compelling reason to recruit anyone but Mordin and the daddy issue loyalty missions had nothing to do with anything.

ME3 is without question the best ME in the trilogy in terms of gameplay(can't even roll or go from cover to cover in ME1/2) and it actually had a story and one that advanced the reaper plot unlike 2.

ME2 fanboys have no leg to stand on against ME3 at all.

that is your opinion

[DukeOfNukes]

ME2 was a great game, just not a good sequel to Mass Effect. ME3 was great...on Tuchanka and Rannoch, but the rest of the game was doo doo. I do love the MP though, which is something I never would have believed beforehand. Mac Walters just plain and simple can't lead a team of writers in the same way as Drew Karpyshyn, and the series suffered for it.

I don't hate BioWare, nor should anybody else. They're still completely capable of putting out good games. I'm hopeful for Dragon Age 3...and for their new franchise. It's a shame that they had to ruin my enjoyment of the Mass Effect Universe, but they could easily restore it by going back to what made the first game great, and improving upon it.

[Maverick827]

I really enjoyed the story freedom of ME2. Though it did have the Collector threat looming, you could make a plot-compliant reason for just traveling around doing space-cowboy-y things (buildin' mah team). The beginning of Mass Effect 1 felt like this, when you were investigating Saren, but after a while it makes less and less sense to do side missions. All of ME3 was like this.

They're all fine games, but I really don't like the "save the world/galaxy/universe" motif when you're also given a ton of side quests/missions to do, which is why I'd like the next Mass Effect game to be very small scale. I want to be a smuggler or bounty hunter or something, just making my way in the galaxy. Maybe I take down an entire mercenary group, but nothing as grandiose as saving all of the things.

Modifié par Maverick827, 13 mai 2013 - 09:01 .

[Il Divo]

Maverick827 wrote...

I really enjoyed the story freedom of ME2. Though it did have the Collector threat looming, you could make a plot-compliant reason for just traveling around doing space-cowboy-y things (buildin' mah team). The beginning of Mass Effect 1 felt like this, when you were investigating Saren, but after a while it makes less and less sense to do side missions. All of ME3 was like this.

They're all fine games, but I really don't like the "save the world/galaxy/universe" motif when you're also given a ton of side quests/missions to do, which is why I'd like the next Mass Effect game to be very small scale. I want to be a smuggler or bounty hunter or something, just making my way in the galaxy. Maybe I take down an entire mercenary group, but nothing as grandiose as saving all of the things.

I don't think an epic save the world style adventure will work again for the simple reason that there's nothing that will approach the level of threat which the Reapers posed. I think Bioware's best bet is to make ME4 (or whatever it will be called) a small, personal journey for the protagonist. Set out to do something completely different than the main trilogy.

[spirosz]

Il Divo wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

I really enjoyed the story freedom of ME2. Though it did have the Collector threat looming, you could make a plot-compliant reason for just traveling around doing space-cowboy-y things (buildin' mah team). The beginning of Mass Effect 1 felt like this, when you were investigating Saren, but after a while it makes less and less sense to do side missions. All of ME3 was like this.

They're all fine games, but I really don't like the "save the world/galaxy/universe" motif when you're also given a ton of side quests/missions to do, which is why I'd like the next Mass Effect game to be very small scale. I want to be a smuggler or bounty hunter or something, just making my way in the galaxy. Maybe I take down an entire mercenary group, but nothing as grandiose as saving all of the things.

I don't think an epic save the world style adventure will work again for the simple reason that there's nothing that will approach the level of threat which the Reapers posed. I think Bioware's best bet is to make ME4 (or whatever it will be called) a small, personal journey for the protagonist. Set out to do something completely different than the main trilogy.

As do I.  

[Neoleviathan]

I wonder if Star Trek or anything had to deal with similar fan temperament back in the day. When the whole thing with ME3 happened, I drew allot of comparisons to how people reacted to Sci-fi becoming SYFY and all the hate surrounding SGU in the beginning. This doesn't seem confined to Bioware at all, just a certain kind of psychology that comes along with fandom as a whole. I think in some ways it’s actually beneficial, because an anti-fan gives a fan someone to compete with. Maybe that helps a fan community mature and develop the arguments and reasons they have for being fans?

With ME3 you had the retake movement, and other groups trying to convince Bioware to put out something like the Extended Cut, some had good intentions and others were not helping anyone. With SGU you got reactionaries like SGUSUCKs.com and anti-fans who were actively (& perhaps successfully) working to get the show cancelled. Three years later and that fanbase behind SGU are active & surprisingly growing and you wouldn’t guess so many people had hated the show by looking at them now. I’ve been wondering if we might see the same for ME3. I think personally I have come to view the third game much more favorably than I did after I first played it. I still dislike it as a sequel, but on its own I think it’s actually a pretty good game. Allot of people say the writing was lacking. And while I’d agree that it didn’t really connect with the previous two games at all to me, if you pretend ME3 was some brand new IP then the writing and the endings are actually really good. The writing wasn’t really lacking at all, I feel it was actually one of the games strengths in the end.

From what I can recall in my time lurking here before I actually joined, Mass Effect 2 was hated immensely. Just by visiting and taking a look that was my immediate impression, I stuck around more or less to follow the development of TOR and ME3. ME3 seemed pretty good leading up as far as fans were, the news network thing was pretty active. I think right around time of those story leaks and re-writes I started to see less and less enthusiasm for the game. Still wasn’t expecting things to turn out the way they did after release.

Modifié par Neoleviathan, 13 mai 2013 - 11:03 .

[DukeOfNukes]

I don't get why everyone is saying ME2 got a lot of hate. I stopped coming to this forum because every time I posted something saying anything remotely negative about it, I had 20 people jumping down my throat saying "you just hate it because it's popular!"

[addiction21]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

I don't get why everyone is saying ME2 got a lot of hate. I stopped coming to this forum because every time I posted something saying anything remotely negative about it, I had 20 people jumping down my throat saying "you just hate it because it's popular!"

And anyone that said anything positive had 20 people jumping down their throat calling them blind fanboys and "you like it because your a frat boy console gears of war player" or something similar.

Its not as simple as you want to make it out to be.

[spirosz]

ME2 did get a lot of hate. I was one of the few who stood by and defended it, but I was outspoken with it's flaws as well, I wasn't blind to them, like I know certain people are with ME3 and it being perfect.

Modifié par spirosz, 13 mai 2013 - 11:35 .