235 réponses à ce sujet

[Twisted Path]

I'll just never understand why some people are really put off by a silent protagonist in these sorts of games. How hard is it to imagine the words you pick from the dialogue tree being said?

[Sir George Parr]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

I'm always kind of torn on this. Hawke felt like he/she was more a 'part' of the universe...but in the process he/she wasn't my character, unlike the Warden.

I prefer DA:O's approach, but the ME/DA2 one has its benefits, I think. Voice acting can add some emotional impact to scenes...but then sometimes I feel like I have to make the character around that voice, too. And I can't just imagine what my character sounds like, and I've always liked doing that.

Really don't like the whole human thing though.

Thats an interesting perspective. I much preferred Hawke over the Warden, as Hawke was more intergrated into the world and for me certainly felt more my character because of it. For me it was a magical moment when female Hawke opened her mouth and spoke. I 'd not being that excited about actually speech in a game since 1990. That was when my parents brought me, Roadblasters for my Atari Lynx and it was the first game i ever had that featured actually speech.   

[ArcaneJTM]

Twisted Path wrote...

I'll just never understand why some people are really put off by a silent protagonist in these sorts of games. How hard is it to imagine the words you pick from the dialogue tree being said?

Well sadly imagination as a whole seems to be dying out.  How many "new" movies do you see lately that aren't either remakes or sequels?

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Twisted Path wrote...

I'll just never understand why some people are really put off by a silent protagonist in these sorts of games. How hard is it to imagine the words you pick from the dialogue tree being said?

I always read my Warden's lines in Laura Bailey's voice. Frankly that proved much more enjoyable. :3

[Chanda]

XM-417 wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

I'm always kind of torn on this. Hawke felt like he/she was more a 'part' of the universe...but in the process he/she wasn't my character, unlike the Warden.

I prefer DA:O's approach, but the ME/DA2 one has its benefits, I think. Voice acting can add some emotional impact to scenes...but then sometimes I feel like I have to make the character around that voice, too. And I can't just imagine what my character sounds like, and I've always liked doing that.

Really don't like the whole human thing though.

Thats an interesting perspective. I much preferred Hawke over the Warden, as Hawke was more intergrated into the world and for me certainly felt more my character because of it. For me it was a magical moment when female Hawke opened her mouth and spoke. I 'd not being that excited about actually speech in a game since 1990. That was when my parents brought me, Roadblasters for my Atari Lynx and it was the first game i ever had that featured actually speech.   

I felt the same way when female Hawke spoke for the first time. I remember thinking to myself, "Wow, her voice is beautiful!"

I just hope that the new female protagonist in this game doesn't sound like Jennifer Hale*. I've had enough of her voice. It's too manly for me. Hawke's voice was perfect.

Edited because I had the wrong last name.

Modifié par Chanda, 13 mai 2013 - 07:48 .

[Cutlasskiwi]

Twisted Path wrote...

I'll just never understand why some people are really put off by a silent protagonist in these sorts of games. How hard is it to imagine the words you pick from the dialogue tree being said?

Not hard at all. But not everyone roleplays the same way. It irks me to no end when my protagonist is shown emotionless and voiceless in a world where everyone else is speaking/showing emotion. If my protagonist is angry I want to see it, hear it and have characters react to it (at least in a game where everyone else has a voice). I'm so tired of the argument that people who dislike silent protagonist doesn't have an imagination.

[Xebioz]

On the issue of the voiced protagonist I prefer DA:O's choice over having my character often saying things that are in conflict with what I want him to say.

Now, that said, I think that the issue of character depth can be boiled down to this:
-In a game like Origins you had more choices and more freedom. This puts the responsibility of making the character on you the player rather than on Bioware. Some people prefer to be given a character and that's fine but it pretty much comes down to: "Do you want to be given a character or create one yourself".

[Sir George Parr]

Chanda wrote...

XM-417 wrote...

SergeantSnookie wrote...

I'm always kind of torn on this. Hawke felt like he/she was more a 'part' of the universe...but in the process he/she wasn't my character, unlike the Warden.

I prefer DA:O's approach, but the ME/DA2 one has its benefits, I think. Voice acting can add some emotional impact to scenes...but then sometimes I feel like I have to make the character around that voice, too. And I can't just imagine what my character sounds like, and I've always liked doing that.

Really don't like the whole human thing though.

Thats an interesting perspective. I much preferred Hawke over the Warden, as Hawke was more intergrated into the world and for me certainly felt more my character because of it. For me it was a magical moment when female Hawke opened her mouth and spoke. I 'd not being that excited about actually speech in a game since 1990. That was when my parents brought me, Roadblasters for my Atari Lynx and it was the first game i ever had that featured actually speech.   

I felt the same way when female Hawke spoke for the first time. I remember thinking to myself, "Wow, her voice is beautiful!"

I just hope that the new female protagonist in this game doesn't sound like Jennifer Hale. I've had enough of her voice. It's too manly for me. Hawke's voice was perfect.

Yeah same here hearing Jo Wyatt's beautiful voice was a dramatic shift in gear from the mute warden.

Modifié par XM-417, 13 mai 2013 - 09:58 .

[Jonathan Seagull]

I don't really think that starting off your topic, title included, with the very definition of hyperbole is the best way to lend weight to your opinion. "Voiced human protagonist" is not the same thing as "no character creation." I think we can safely assume that we'll be able to pick our gender and class, and customize our appearance. Apparently there will also be some sort of backgrounds to choose from. We have no idea at this point how anything like names or potential titles will work. Nor do we know what types of dialogue options will be present throughout the game.

I'd love for things like race options to return (4 out of my 6 DAO runs so far are non-humans). But those who insist on taking an "all or nothing" approach to being satisfied are setting themselves up to be disappointed.

[aphelion4]

I thought the warden was boring. So long as I can pick gender and create their appearance I don't particularly care if the main character is "set". I prefer voiced protagonists as well (Lady Hawke's was amazing).

Then again, I never cared much for actual roleplaying in single player games.

[Chanda]

Jonathan Seagull wrote...

I don't really think that starting off your topic, title included, with the very definition of hyperbole is the best way to lend weight to your opinion. "Voiced human protagonist" is not the same thing as "no character creation." I think we can safely assume that we'll be able to pick our gender and class, and customize our appearance. Apparently there will also be some sort of backgrounds to choose from. We have no idea at this point how anything like names or potential titles will work. Nor do we know what types of dialogue options will be present throughout the game.

I'd love for things like race options to return (4 out of my 6 DAO runs so far are non-humans). But those who insist on taking an "all or nothing" approach to being satisfied are setting themselves up to be disappointed.

Ahem. Yes, I meant Jennifer Hale. Going to edit that post, now. Thanks.

Dear lord, and I quoted the wrong post! You have to forgive me, I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

Modifié par Chanda, 13 mai 2013 - 07:49 .

[mopotter]

Hawke_12 wrote...

It is subjective, but I feel more connected and emotionaly attached to the PC, the companions and the world with a voiced protagonist. With non-voiced, nada. And non voiced characters don't really tend to be that developed, some none at all and are just a blank state (aka the Dragorborn). Only good non-voiced protagonist I've played as is the Nameless One.

Agree.  Well, never played the nameless one, but I like having a voice now that I've played ME series and DA2.  I like it so much better than the voice set for DA:O and the old BG games.  I dislike hearing this "Now this should be amusing" or "It can be done" or "Look there a cunning trap"  I had no control over when they decided to talk and I always used the same voice no matter what my character was.  If they are going to talk like this, i want them to talk all the time.  

I'll play a game without a voice if it's good, but I do think it adds something to my being that character.

As far as character creation goes, As long as they give me options for the sex, and how my character looks I'll be relatively happy.  I hope some future game has different races, but with the DA lore having anything other than human would probably make it far more complicated to make, with a lot of dialogue problems.  In DA Origins, being an Elf very seldom caused a change in the responses I received because the Warden was important no matter what she was.  I can only think of a few places where the dialogue was different.  

I think in DA3 it would be a major headache if they had other choices.  Of course you could be a half elf, if they wanted to show your parents before they are killed by the inquisitor, but you would still look human.  

Someone mentioned the cinematic moments might be one reason.  It's possible, thought they did have cut scenes in DA:O, but there weren't a whole lot.  I hope they don't over do the cinematic touches.  I want to play a game, not watch a  movie.

[ArcaneJTM]

Again I point out that there is no reason why it should have to be a mutually exclusive choice between variety in character race or having a voiced protagonist. Heck, you can even use the same voice actor/actors.

[Cutlass Jack]

Twisted Path wrote...

I'll just never understand why some people are really put off by a silent protagonist in these sorts of games. How hard is it to imagine the words you pick from the dialogue tree being said?

I'll never understand why some people are put off by their protaganist not being silent and actually participating in conversations instead of staring blankly while everyone else gets to have a personality.

I'd rather actually be interesting, than have people talk at me about how interesting I am.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 13 mai 2013 - 07:53 .

[Cimeas]

Because it's precisely the OPPOSITE of immersive to play a mute character who never utters a word.

The argument that you can imagine them is beyond ridiculous. What next? Are we going to 'imagine' NPC's voices because I always imagined Garrus would be Polish? Are we going to 'imagine' combat because I don't think the animations convey how *my* character would use a sword?

Having a fully voiced character makes the game 'cinematic' (you wouldn't hear the main character in cinema be mute while everyone else talks) and the genre of games that Bioware makes is widely known as the 'cinematic RPG'.

There is a reason why people are (in general) way more attached to Commander Shepard, than the Warden. There is a reason why if you go to a gaming convention, you'll see a hundred Commander Shepards and perhaps a couple Wardens. And the answer isn't that Mass Effect has more fans (is Dragon Age: Origins not Bioware's most successful game ever?) or even that Shepard has the famous 'N7' armor...

It's that unlike DAO, people weren't just attached to their companions in Mass Effect (as compelling as they were)- They were attached to their *character*, because he had a VOICE.

[Xebioz]

I hope at least that we can agree that deception when it comes to dialogue options is just silly. The Witcher 2 does it like Origins with the written responses and Geralt says the same thing it actually says. Having a wheel like Mass Effect and DA2 I feel takes away from my experience as I now have to question if my character will act as I'm led to believe by the wheel.

[dreamgazer]

"I smell some darkspawn!"

Not being able to select different races and vocal "personalities" in DA2 was, indeed, a disappointment.

[Nole]

Whenever I read that someone prefers Hawke over The Warden that is because Hawke speaks, and that is supposedly the reason that makes him more real or integrated to the world. But, if The Warden could talk...I mean, he had so much more ways to be played and it can have a lot more "personalities" than hawke.
So, for me, The Warden is a lot better than Hawke, because when I played him I created his personality as I wanted it to be, and I have no problem imagining how my Warden speaks or react to some situations (since that's the idea of an RPG, and I have played some tabletop role-playing games).

[EmperorSahlertz]

Twisted Path wrote...
I'll just never understand why some people are really put off by a silent protagonist in these sorts of games. How hard is it to imagine the words you pick from the dialogue tree being said?

And I'll never understand how a set charcter somehow lessens the stroy, when actually it usually is the opposite, because a set character actually fits into the world created.

Until technology develops to a point where we can have an active dungeon master (which frankly i simpossible as it is), a set character will always ba  better fit for a story, than what some fan can make up.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 13 mai 2013 - 08:16 .

[Xebioz]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Whenever I read that someone prefers Hawke over The Warden that is because Hawke speaks, and that is supposedly the reason that makes him more real or integrated to the world. But, if The Warden could talk...I mean, he had so much more ways to be played and it can have a lot more "personalities" than hawke.
So, for me, The Warden is a lot better than Hawke, because when I played him I created his personality as I wanted it to be, and I have no problem imagining how my Warden speaks or react to some situations (since that's the idea of an RPG, and I have played some tabletop role-playing games).

I agree totally with your approach and mine is very similar, but it comes down to whether you are the sort of person who wants to have a character given to you or create one yourself. I know many people who prefer to be asigned a role rather than creating one from scratch. That's not how I do it, but I don't see it as wrong or right just another playstyle really.

The dialogue wheel however is a spawn of hell 

[Dusk Wolf]

Catroi wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Because making real (what I would regard as 'real') RPGs is too much work apparently. That's my take.

-Polaris

^what this great man said

hey guys I has an idea

multiple voice actors for the hero depending of the race/gender

just an idea for a non-lazy developper

I don't think it's a matter of whether or not they are *lazy* or not. I think it's a matter of time mostly. That and resources. Even if you hire a voice actor or actress who can do multiple races you'd still not only need to record every line of dialogue written for every playable race, both male and female, you may also have to hire other voice actors to do the races that one of the actors you've already hired can't do. I'm okay with a 3 to 4 year gap between releases but adding all these extra voiced playable characters would either push the title's release out even further or other content may be cut just for the game to make its release deadline. I'd rather have more story in a game than 3 to 6 voiced playable characters. I'm not sure how many you were talking about but origins had 3 playable races with 6 backgrounds that you could choose. That's a lot of dialogue to voice for even just an intro.

As for the character creation in the next DA game, it doesn't even have a release date yet so we don't know what customization will be yet. I mean do we? No sarcasm intended. I'm just not sure if anything's really been said about what the character creation will allow you do.

Edit: Also,  I've begun playing DAO again and while I like playing a voiced
character I don't think having one who doesn't talk will break up the
immersion any. If anything I get more immersed in it because I can
concentrate on what the NPCs are saying and on the events that are
unfolding rather than what my character is going to say. 

Modifié par Lament for Thessia, 13 mai 2013 - 08:30 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Catroi wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Because making real (what I would regard as 'real') RPGs is too much work apparently. That's my take.

-Polaris

^what this great man said

hey guys I has an idea

multiple voice actors for the hero depending of the race/gender

just an idea for a non-lazy developper

Yes... Because developers are just swimming in money, esepcially in this age and day..... <_<
"Lazy-developper" .... Christ.... you really got no idea, do you?

[I SOLD MY SOUL TO BIOWARE]

Well, I for one was FAR more attached to my Warden than Hawke or Shepard.

Cimeas wrote...

There is a reason why people are (in general) way more attached to Commander Shepard, than the Warden. There is a reason why if you go to a gaming convention, you'll see a hundred Commander Shepards and perhaps a couple Wardens. And the answer isn't that Mass Effect has more fans (is Dragon Age: Origins not Bioware's most successful game ever?) or even that Shepard has the famous 'N7' armor...

 

Ever thought that maybe that's because there are hundreds of people the Warden could be? He/she could be anything from a snobby human noble woman to a bloodthirsty dwarf who refuses to wear clothes.

With Shepard, it always goes back to that Alliance soldier with N7 armour. When you think the Warden, chances are everyone in the room is thinking something different.

Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 13 mai 2013 - 08:21 .

[Realmzmaster]

There are many ways to play an rpg. Two of the ways are to step into a role. The other is to create the role to a certain extent. Both can be considered role playing. Some gamers like one or the other. Some like both. It takes imagination to be able to step into a role as much as to create one. One is not inherently superior to the other . It comes down to a matter of taste and preference.

I can role play with either a voice or non-voiced PC. It has nothing to do with imagination. That has to do more with the limitations that the gamer has set with his or her preference.

[Il Divo]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Catroi wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Because making real (what I would regard as 'real') RPGs is too much work apparently. That's my take.

-Polaris

^what this great man said

hey guys I has an idea

multiple voice actors for the hero depending of the race/gender

just an idea for a non-lazy developper

Yes... Because developers are just swimming in money, esepcially in this age and day..... <_<
"Lazy-developper" .... Christ.... you really got no idea, do you?

I'm guessing the cost of funding multiple VAs would result in some unwanted concessions in other areas of the game. Imagine if we had DA2 style environments all over, because Bioware needed to add Dwarf VAs.