235 réponses à ce sujet

[TheChris92]

mosesarose wrote...

I'd like it if we'd got to pick our voice like in Saint's row

Except that Saints Row isn't an RPG, and doesn't have a dialogue tree/wheel. I do like the CC of Saints Row, it's very detailed, and I wouldn't mind seeing such a CC implemented into BioWare's games -- This could also ensure my characters doesn't end up looking the same. 

On-topic: I don't think it is impossible to role-play a character, with a voice, as I didn't find it to be troubling in games such as Alpha Protocol, Deus Ex or the first Mass Effect. When I play a game like Skyrim I actually miss having my character talk, she/he feels so empty & emotionless in times of epic grandeur or during ordinary conversation.
Not saying a non-voice protagonist won't do, it's simply a different way of role-playing and it does work with Skyrim & Fallout, because there are so many other things that make those games fun & engaging. I admit, I still miss having a voice for my character when playing these games -- But then again I can live with it if we get something else as a compromise. I feel a voiced protagonist makes the conversations feel more alive, at least to me, and I tend to like it that way. I hope BioWare has ensured new ways of roleplaying the voiced-protagonist for DA:I, so the character seems less pre-determined than Shepard ended up being in ME3.

Modifié par TheChris92, 13 mai 2013 - 08:31 .

[DarthCaine]

BioWare doesn't wanna make RPGs anymore, they want interactive movies

[Nole]

Realmzmaster wrote...

There are many ways to play an rpg. Two of the ways are to step into a role. The other is to create the role to a certain extent. Both can be considered role playing. Some gamers like one or the other. Some like both. It takes imagination to be able to step into a role as much as to create one. One is not inherently superior to the other . It comes down to a matter of taste and preference.

I can role play with either a voice or non-voiced PC. It has nothing to do with imagination. That has to do more with the limitations that the gamer has set with his or her preference.

Yes, and I have no problem with the "step into a role" type, my problem is that, at being in that role, I can only choose to be a good guy, a fun guy, or an aggresive guy. That said, I enjoyed DA2, but I really miss the choices that I had being The Warden, I mean, I would love a voiced protagonist but with all the choices of dialogue that I had in DA:O. I know that is nearly impossible because it requires too much resources, but for me it would be great .

[BounceDK]

Consoles.

[highcastle]

Things that were fixed in DAO: surname and dialogue options that were diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive. Check the files in the toolset. Because there was no VO, we didn't hear the tone of the response, but there was a tone associated with them. And characters responded accordingly.

Things that were fixed in DA2: surname and dialogue options that were diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive. Only this time they were clearly labeled so instead of making a comment intended to be a joke and having it taken completely seriously, interactions with companions were easier to understand.

Now, DA2 didn't have origins, but DA3 will have some flexibility with background apparently. But let's please stop pretending DAO didn't do some of the same things people only complain about in DA2.

[ArcaneJTM]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

There are many ways to play an rpg. Two of the ways are to step into a role. The other is to create the role to a certain extent. Both can be considered role playing. Some gamers like one or the other. Some like both. It takes imagination to be able to step into a role as much as to create one. One is not inherently superior to the other . It comes down to a matter of taste and preference.

I can role play with either a voice or non-voiced PC. It has nothing to do with imagination. That has to do more with the limitations that the gamer has set with his or her preference.

Yes, and I have no problem with the "step into a role" type, my problem is that, at being in that role, I can only choose to be a good guy, a fun guy, or an aggresive guy. That said, I enjoyed DA2, but I really miss the choices that I had being The Warden, I mean, I would love a voiced protagonist but with all the choices of dialogue that I had in DA:O. I know that is nearly impossible because it requires too much resources, but for me it would be great .

It actually wouldn't be that much more, aside from a voice actor for the PC.  Think about it, the NPCs all had different fully voiced dialogue for each of the speach options of the PC.  All you'd really need is a voice actor or two to read the lines for the PC.  You could even pretty much leave the cinematics untouched.

Even if you lost the different choices of voice in the CC, it's not really a big loss considering you only ever occasionally heard those voices when you gave the character a command.

Modifié par ArcaneJTM, 13 mai 2013 - 08:52 .

[Realmzmaster]

WittingEight65 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

There are many ways to play an rpg. Two of the ways are to step into a role. The other is to create the role to a certain extent. Both can be considered role playing. Some gamers like one or the other. Some like both. It takes imagination to be able to step into a role as much as to create one. One is not inherently superior to the other . It comes down to a matter of taste and preference.

I can role play with either a voice or non-voiced PC. It has nothing to do with imagination. That has to do more with the limitations that the gamer has set with his or her preference.

Yes, and I have no problem with the "step into a role" type, my problem is that, at being in that role, I can only choose to be a good guy, a fun guy, or an aggresive guy. That said, I enjoyed DA2, but I really miss the choices that I had being The Warden, I mean, I would love a voiced protagonist but with all the choices of dialogue that I had in DA:O. I know that is nearly impossible because it requires too much resources, but for me it would be great .

The choices in dialogue that the warden had followed the same pattern as  the dialogue wheel Hawke used. The only difference is the lines are not labeled as such in DAO.  

[Twisted Path]

Cutlasskiwi wrote...

Not hard at all. But not everyone roleplays the same way. It irks me to no end when my protagonist is shown emotionless and voiceless in a world where everyone else is speaking/showing emotion. If my protagonist is angry I want to see it, hear it and have characters react to it (at least in a game where everyone else has a voice). I'm so tired of the argument that people who dislike silent protagonist doesn't have an imagination.

Fair enough. That's just not something that ever bothered or even occored to me playing games like Knights of the Old Republic, Jade Empire or Origins. Heck, I always thought my Grey Warden was a pretty angry person (City Elf Orgin,) and picking the angry or terse dialogue options expressed that enough for me.

I also just don't like the tradeoff we seem to get with voiced protagonists where the PC often says things that I never meant for them to say (Why am I flirting with James Vega!? I never okayed that!) but people have different priorities and tastes.

[Mr.House]

*looks at thread title* There is a character creation in DA3 just like there was in DA2 and DAO. Whatever there was a race creation is a different subject.

[Nole]

Realmzmaster wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

There are many ways to play an rpg. Two of the ways are to step into a role. The other is to create the role to a certain extent. Both can be considered role playing. Some gamers like one or the other. Some like both. It takes imagination to be able to step into a role as much as to create one. One is not inherently superior to the other . It comes down to a matter of taste and preference.

I can role play with either a voice or non-voiced PC. It has nothing to do with imagination. That has to do more with the limitations that the gamer has set with his or her preference.

Yes, and I have no problem with the "step into a role" type, my problem is that, at being in that role, I can only choose to be a good guy, a fun guy, or an aggresive guy. That said, I enjoyed DA2, but I really miss the choices that I had being The Warden, I mean, I would love a voiced protagonist but with all the choices of dialogue that I had in DA:O. I know that is nearly impossible because it requires too much resources, but for me it would be great .

The choices in dialogue that the warden had followed the same pattern as  the dialogue wheel Hawke used. The only difference is the lines are not labeled as such in DAO.  

I don't know, I always felt like I had a lot more choices as The Warden, maybe I have to replay de game again.

[Fast Jimmy]

Realmzmaster wrote...

WittingEight65 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

There are many ways to play an rpg. Two of the ways are to step into a role. The other is to create the role to a certain extent. Both can be considered role playing. Some gamers like one or the other. Some like both. It takes imagination to be able to step into a role as much as to create one. One is not inherently superior to the other . It comes down to a matter of taste and preference.

I can role play with either a voice or non-voiced PC. It has nothing to do with imagination. That has to do more with the limitations that the gamer has set with his or her preference.

Yes, and I have no problem with the "step into a role" type, my problem is that, at being in that role, I can only choose to be a good guy, a fun guy, or an aggresive guy. That said, I enjoyed DA2, but I really miss the choices that I had being The Warden, I mean, I would love a voiced protagonist but with all the choices of dialogue that I had in DA:O. I know that is nearly impossible because it requires too much resources, but for me it would be great .

The choices in dialogue that the warden had followed the same pattern as  the dialogue wheel Hawke used. The only difference is the lines are not labeled as such in DAO.  

Not only are they not labeled as such, but one could argue that they did not have to be delivered as such, either. If you are fine with NPCs misunderstanding what you were trying to say (which happened a fair number of times as well in DA2, except it was less them not understanding and instead your character not understanding the player's desire), then you can imagine a silent PC delivering the same words a multitude of ways. 

[Felya87]

Never find any kind of attachment to Hawke. It wasn't my character. if it was, It would have had pointy ears.
and I never find anything good about the voiced character. but maybe is because speak in English. I found much more connection to FemShep and MaleShep in ME thanks to the Italian voice actors. but maybe I'm not correct in that. I don't find myself more attached to the characters. but on the character I'using. It gives more personality to the PC...but not the personality I want.

is more a "character", like Jade, or Nathan Drake, or Ezio in AC.2. is a character. not MY character. not "me". is just some kind of character I simple move. is not the PC I created. is someone else. is someone I just decide what did. is just a puppet I move.

my shepards have their own personality, are Jade Shepard and Nathan Shepard. are two characters in their own. but aren't "really" mine. are the characters already in the game.

I didn't have that sensation with a non voiced character.
I can connect better with a non voiced character. I can give her the voice I like in my head.

[Fast Jimmy]

Mr.House wrote...

*looks at thread title* There is a character creation in DA3 just like there was in DA2 and DAO. Whatever there was a race creation is a different subject.

It is not a race creation. You are not devising a new species to populate the world of Thedas. 

You are creating a character. Choosing the race of said character is part of creating them. Just like choosing what weapon you specialize in, if you have a family, if you speak multiple languages and/or if you worship any given deity(ies).

If that choice is not there, that is fine... but it is an element of the character creator that is missing/omitted. It is not something that is inherently separate from the character creation process. 

[Mr.House]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

*looks at thread title* There is a character creation in DA3 just like there was in DA2 and DAO. Whatever there was a race creation is a different subject.

It is not a race creation. You are not devising a new species to populate the world of Thedas. 

You are creating a character. Choosing the race of said character is part of creating them. Just like choosing what weapon you specialize in, if you have a family, if you speak multiple languages and/or if you worship any given deity(ies).

If that choice is not there, that is fine... but it is an element of the character creator that is missing/omitted. It is not something that is inherently separate from the character creation process. 

The title of the thread is Why no character creation. There is character creation.

[Tinxa]

Well the voiced PC is here to stay that much is clear and I don't really mind it. I prefer a silent PC but I like voiced one as well.

I just don't uderstand why we couldn't at least play as elves with the same voices? If I make a blond thinfaced PC with short hair in one game and a dark squarejawed PC with long hair in another game, that are two very different faces to go with the same voice. It would be no different if you played once as a human and once as an elf. I don't see why there couldn't be several playable races even with a voiced PC.

[Fast Jimmy]

The title of the thread is Why no character creation. There is character creation.

By that argument, one could argue there is no character creator, there is just a class selector and a face morph.

Is a character defined by what type of stabby thing they use to kill things and how their face looks? Or is it their background, their upbringing and the people they grew up with?

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 13 mai 2013 - 09:24 .

[Maclimes]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The title of the thread is Why no character creation. There is character creation.

By that argument, one could argue there is no character creator, there is just a class selector and a face morph.

Is a character defined by what type of stabby thing they use to kill things and how their face looks? Or is it their background, their upbringing and the people they grew up with?

It's been confirmed you can select a background during character creation, and that it will affect your game.

[Fast Jimmy]

^

And we'll see if that means anything at all.

Picking a class influenced things in DA2... too bad its biggest impact was which sibling died and little more beyond that.

[Sir George Parr]

highcastle wrote...

Things that were fixed in DAO: surname and dialogue options that were diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive. Check the files in the toolset. Because there was no VO, we didn't hear the tone of the response, but there was a tone associated with them. And characters responded accordingly.

Things that were fixed in DA2: surname and dialogue options that were diplomatic, sarcastic, and aggressive. Only this time they were clearly labeled so instead of making a comment intended to be a joke and having it taken completely seriously, interactions with companions were easier to understand.

Now, DA2 didn't have origins, but DA3 will have some flexibility with background apparently. But let's please stop pretending DAO didn't do some of the same things people only complain about in DA2.

That was a problem that i had with Origins.Even with the full line in front of me i didn't know the tone associated with that line. So i could think i was being diplomatic with a npc whereas i was actually being really sarcastic.Or i thought that The Warden was being quite serious with the response selected, but no Alistair reacts like its a joke. So i would reload a lot in that game to avoid the hit in approval that would result.

So in DA2 i  found it much improved, but like all things in life no doubt room for further improvements. It was just that particular dialog with Anders that prompted a reload, which was more of reflex action having gotten into the habit of doing so with Origins.   

[Deebo305]

More Origins butthurt I see. Odd how people praise it but overlook those High Dragon sized flaws. Like many hear I enjoyed the different beginnings each race had but after those first few hour your basically playing the same game honestly. People say they preferred the Warden a.d talk as if he/she were more ALIVE than Hawke when in reality they weren't. Too much of the dialogue feels like classic heroic pandering. If I change my characters appearance then ingame family should match. (Black Cousland and City elf with full white parents and relatives?WTF?). Too many characters felt more alive than the Warden which is wrong even for a silent PC

Perfect example would be Jade Empire, similar format to Origins minus the CC, the camera always shows the emotion on the PC's face when choosing the dialogue option so there is no confusion. Hell I'd say Jade Empires dialogue system trumps Origins in everyway. Anyone who play this sacred gem knows I'm telling the truth

[Fast Jimmy]

I think it's best if Bioware just writes whatever story they think needs to be done. I'm a musician. If I was writing an album, I wouldn't conduct a poll and write it via consensus. I'd do what I thought I needed to express and if people hated it, screw em. I'd take my chances of losing fans, or creating new ones. Hopefully not the former, but you can't please everyone.

Interactive mediums are a whole different beast than passive ones. So your comparison is lacking.

You could just as easily say not having any way to differentiate your character is the same as if you cover a song, but have to play it, note for note, the same as the original song. Who are you to experience or express that song in a way different than the original composer?

[Relshar]

StreetMagic wrote...

DAO was intended as a general introduction to the world. So you had the various origins. DA2 was meant to an introduction to a specific plot in that world, and they wanted a more personal vehicle for it (Hawke), instead of letting characters go all willy nilly.

It's not that hard to understand. So many games, books, and movies have personal stories too. There's advantages and disadvantages to either approach when it comes to RPGs. I think they tried to reach a middle ground, in allowing you to still set your stats, plot points, and appearance.

By making us play Hawke though it didn't make the plot personal to me. I found I enjoyed the game a lot less than I would of if I had the choice of race, name etc. DA:O had a far more personal approach to me than a pre-voiced actor who had as much emotion to their voice acting as a wooden plank.

ME series it was always billed as Sheppard so you knew what to expect. Witcher 1 and 2 is about Geralt and his loss of memory, DA:O was for the players to get involved in the game world on a personal level only to have it taken away from us in DA:2.

Since playing DA:2 and ME3 I am wondering if Bioware is capable of making any decent RPG's for the PC. Skyrim I have clocked in over 760 hours and its still going. DA:O I played it through on all races and and classes, DA:2 one play through. ME1 and 2 three or four, ME3 once. To me that speaks volumes to the quality of Bioware games.
I also go back to Neverwinter 1 and replay that as well as Baldurs Gate, while DA;2 sits in the bottom of the cupboard collecting dust. Someimes its not about the graphics but the story and gameplay. DA:2 had neither.

[Twisted Path]

StreetMagic wrote...

I think it's best if Bioware just writes whatever story they think needs to be done. I'm a musician. If I was writing an album, I wouldn't conduct a poll and write it via consensus. I'd do what I thought I needed to express and if people hated it, screw em. I'd take my chances of losing fans, or creating new ones. Hopefully not the former, but you can't please everyone.

If I wanted to play a game with a fixed plot and characterization I'd be playing virtually any game that isn't an RPG.