235 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

StreetMagic wrote...

I wonder if a year or two from now, will all of these people who are going to quit the series still going to be posting on this board?

I'm going to make a mental note of this.

Coming from a guy who has a Join Date of barely six months ago, that's an awfully ambitious claim to make. 

[Fast Jimmy]

^

Fair enough.

People come and people go here on BSN's boards. When they switch to the new site here in six or so months, you'll see a lot of name changes, so it may be hard to do.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 14 mai 2013 - 06:28 .

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Without Character Creation [and Inventory], a so-called RPG looks like a Shooter or in this case a Hack'n'Slash game.

[ArcaneJTM]

Legatus Arianus wrote...

Without Character Creation [and Inventory], a so-called RPG looks like a Shooter or in this case a Hack'n'Slash game.

QFT

[The Elder King]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Fair enough.

People come and people go here on BSN's boards. When they switch to the new site here in six or so months, you'll see a lot of name changes, so it may be hard to do.

I'll surely change mine.
By the way, where they stated that they're creating a new site?

[Fast Jimmy]

hhh89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Fair enough.

People come and people go here on BSN's boards. When they switch to the new site here in six or so months, you'll see a lot of name changes, so it may be hard to do.

I'll surely change mine.
By the way, where they stated that they're creating a new site?

I don't think its been officially stated anywhere. But it has been largely hinted at. For instance, they have a group called BOS (Bioware Online Systems) that are busy concocting something up to be in tandem with the DA3 release. So it has been inferred that either the BSN is getting a huge facelift or is being replaced with something else. 

[The Elder King]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Fair enough.

People come and people go here on BSN's boards. When they switch to the new site here in six or so months, you'll see a lot of name changes, so it may be hard to do.

I'll surely change mine.
By the way, where they stated that they're creating a new site?

I don't think its been officially stated anywhere. But it has been largely hinted at. For instance, they have a group called BOS (Bioware Online Systems) that are busy concocting something up to be in tandem with the DA3 release. So it has been inferred that either the BSN is getting a huge facelift or is being replaced with something else. 

Interesting. Thanks for the info. I remember reading about the BOS team, but I didn't know their role.

[Naitaka]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Fair enough.

People come and people go here on BSN's boards. When they switch to the new site here in six or so months, you'll see a lot of name changes, so it may be hard to do.

I'll surely change mine.
By the way, where they stated that they're creating a new site?

I don't think its been officially stated anywhere. But it has been largely hinted at. For instance, they have a group called BOS (Bioware Online Systems) that are busy concocting something up to be in tandem with the DA3 release. So it has been inferred that either the BSN is getting a huge facelift or is being replaced with something else. 

Gosh and I still haven't gotten the fact they switched over to BSN and just deleted everything on the old forum without archiving anything now you tell me they're going to switch again?

[The Elder King]

Naitaka wrote...



Gosh and I still haven't gotten the fact they switched over to BSN and just deleted everything on the old forum without archiving anything now you tell me they're going to switch again?

Or they might simply highly modify the BSN.

[garrusfan1]

it is much more work and the problem isn't really the voice acting costing more it is you have to do different animations for each rach and gender and that is more work then you think. basically they would have to do a human animation and then and elf which is shorter and skinnier then a dwarf who is shorter then an elf but is stalky and then two for each race (one for male and one for email). games cost alot to make and they have to make alot to even break even so they cut corners in some places. I would love to have all the races available to play as like we did in Origins but as graphics icrease it costs more

[ArcaneJTM]

garrusfan1 wrote...

it is much more work and the problem isn't really the voice acting costing more it is you have to do different animations for each rach and gender and that is more work then you think. basically they would have to do a human animation and then and elf which is shorter and skinnier then a dwarf who is shorter then an elf but is stalky and then two for each race (one for male and one for email).

Which they have to do anyway.  Unless of course you want all elves and dwarves in the game to simply stand around like statues.

[freche]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The title of the thread is Why no character creation. There is character creation.

By that argument, one could argue there is no character creator, there is just a class selector and a face morph.

Is a character defined by what type of stabby thing they use to kill things and how their face looks? Or is it their background, their upbringing and the people they grew up with?

And Hawke didn't have any background, upbringing or people he/she grew up with?

[Fast Jimmy]

freche wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

The title of the thread is Why no character creation. There is character creation.

By that argument, one could argue there is no character creator, there is just a class selector and a face morph.

Is a character defined by what type of stabby thing they use to kill things and how their face looks? Or is it their background, their upbringing and the people they grew up with?

And Hawke didn't have any background, upbringing or people he/she grew up with?

Not a chooseable one, no. 

Would you say you had a character creator if your face and class were already set? Of course not. 

These double-sided arguments are pretty flimsy, people. Let's get some good discussion going here.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 14 mai 2013 - 11:57 .

[Fast Jimmy]

ArcaneJTM wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

it is much more work and the problem isn't really the voice acting costing more it is you have to do different animations for each rach and gender and that is more work then you think. basically they would have to do a human animation and then and elf which is shorter and skinnier then a dwarf who is shorter then an elf but is stalky and then two for each race (one for male and one for email).

Which they have to do anyway.  Unless of course you want all elves and dwarves in the game to simply stand around like statues.

To be fair, having NPCs who never switch armor or weapons and are never in more than a few cinematics is a little different than having a character involved in every cinematic who can switch armor and weapons at great length.

[Shaigunjoe]

I wonder how much of it is stat gathering, I know BW collects a lot of stats, Maybe an overwhelming number of people just went with a default human.

[ArcaneJTM]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

ArcaneJTM wrote...

garrusfan1 wrote...

it is much more work and the problem isn't really the voice acting costing more it is you have to do different animations for each rach and gender and that is more work then you think. basically they would have to do a human animation and then and elf which is shorter and skinnier then a dwarf who is shorter then an elf but is stalky and then two for each race (one for male and one for email).

Which they have to do anyway.  Unless of course you want all elves and dwarves in the game to simply stand around like statues.

To be fair, having NPCs who never switch armor or weapons and are never in more than a few cinematics is a little different than having a character involved in every cinematic who can switch armor and weapons at great length.

Not really.  You just have to resize the armor models to fit the other races that aren't already sized to fit the NPCs, basically.  Maybe the weapons as well if there's a huge difference in character size.  You're not starting from scratch every time.  As I said, a lot of it you'll have to do anyway if you want those particular NPCs to do more than stand around and look like clones.

It's not like you have to redo each and every animation for each and every weapon or outfit combination either.  They are the same animations for the most part.  Swing weapon down, swing weapon sideways, walk, run, die, middle finger, etc. etc.  Your sword is still going to be held at a particular point on the weapon (one would expect by the hilt), and getting that "sticky" point right is the important part.  The animation will stay the same regardless of whether you put it at the hilt or the middle of the blade or sideways so it looks like the PC has a backwards greatsword for a hand.

I'll grant you that you might have to set up a new animation for the PC in the cinematics where applicable, but thats hardly the world ending roadblock some people seem to be making it out to be.  They'd really only be the ones unique to the PC and the cinematic in question.  Heck, you had companions of different races in DA:O and DA2.  You don't think the devs had to create animations for them?

[Meatbaggins]

DA2 did have character creation ; it was just lacking in customization. Fortunately, it's been confirmed that DA3 will have selectable backgrounds of some sort, so there's that.

[ArcaneJTM]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I wonder how much of it is stat gathering, I know BW collects a lot of stats, Maybe an overwhelming number of people just went with a default human.

I'm sure that plays a part in it.  The thing is though, if you remove all but the most popular choice, are you really improving the game, or just stepping over a dime to pick up a penny?

Stat gathering has also had a negative impact in overall game development IMO.  Games today are shorter, less in depth, more cinematic and more consolized.  In some cases there's more cinematic than actual gameplay.  It's getting kind of ridiculous.  There's some titles I could name that have essentially thrown the whole idea of building a character out the window.  Instead of picking skills, you're just handed all of them so there's no real difference between characters.

Meatbaggins wrote...

DA2 did have character creation ; it
was just lacking in customization. Fortunately, it's been confirmed
that DA3 will have selectable backgrounds of some sort, so there's
that.

That's just it though.  If they can account for different backgrounds, why not different races?  Seems only logical to me that they would be able to.  Heck, that was the entire premise of the Origins part in Dragon Age Origins.  That's just my take on the idea that somehow doing so would take away from the rest of the game anyway.

Modifié par ArcaneJTM, 15 mai 2013 - 03:01 .

[GodChildInTheMachine]

If I had more faith in BioWare's story-telling abilities, I would be less apprehensive about playing another interactive film. They generally do exceptionally well at writing character interactions, but sometimes they really falter at writing decent narratives or even characters themselves.

I really despise how limited they've been making dialogue options; choosing between 'nice guy', 'sarcastic and\\or dryly bemused guy' and 'unreasonable jerk' really doesn't come close to covering even the most shallow of emotional responses, and a lot of the time it doesn't really make sense in the context of the narrative. The Witcher 2 has a pre-determined protagonist with a huge back story and general sense of direction, but it succeeds in providing enough responses that are both nuanced and logical to allow you to make the character your own.

DA:O was excellent in how it handled and allowed for wide variety of player-character types, yet still kept a pretty well executed plot line. The argument that they are now more focused on telling a tight-knight story just doesn't hold water for me; their plots are not even the stronger parts of their writing. If I want to experience a story with a well establish protagonist who has a linear and defined plot arc, I will read a book or watch a movie. They are more suited to doing that better anyway.

I was spoiled early on by RPGs which understood that the fictional world should be the player's sandbox. Some of those games were made by BioWare, some by related companies like Black Isle. For BioWare to abandon that concept in favor of making interactive films with one version where the protagonist is diplomatic, and one where it is a d-bag, is a major step backwards in my eyes.

[GodChildInTheMachine]

Faerunner wrote...

Because it's easier to make a pre-defined protagonist with a set race, voice, demeanor, and one of three set personalities and (text-based) backgrounds than a blank(er) slate protagonist with diverse races, voices, personalities and background combinations that the player can mix and match to create their own character and, you know, role-play with. The character already has a set role in the world (racially, socially, economically, etc); the player just decides what their face looks like, what weapons they use to kill people, who they bang and in what order they complete the streamlined story.

I can see you've been present at the creative design meetings of a certain software developer. 

[Shaigunjoe]

ArcaneJTM wrote...

I'm sure that plays a part in it.  The thing is though, if you remove all but the most popular choice, are you really improving the game, or just stepping over a dime to pick up a penny?

Stat gathering has also had a negative impact in overall game development IMO.  Games today are shorter, less in depth, more cinematic and more consolized.  In some cases there's more cinematic than actual gameplay.  It's getting kind of ridiculous.  There's some titles I could name that have essentially thrown the whole idea of building a character out the window.  Instead of picking skills, you're just handed all of them so there's no real difference between characters.

Yea, I have no idea how much money they are saving by not developing for the minority versus lost sales.

I feel like stat gathering is both good and bad really, I love looking at stats from games, though they are open to interpretation, and sometimes devs just draw the wrong conclusions.

I think you are overgenerailzing games today way too much though.  I don't have any idea what consolized even means.  Games today are more diverse than ever before, and it is certainly better to be a gamer now than any other time in the history of games.

[Fiery Knight]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I wonder how much of it is stat gathering, I know BW collects a lot of stats, Maybe an overwhelming number of people just went with a default human.

80% of people in DAO played as a human. And this is counting all the characters created, not solely your first character.