235 réponses à ce sujet

[Ridwan]

I would've thought everyone and their grandmother viewed the Reapers as evil and the kid as a monster, but it seems that either I'm seeing things wrong or there are people on this board who are actually sympathetic to thr genocidal flying cuttlefish robots and the space emperor ghost kid from Contact.

Please tell me this ain't true.

Modifié par M25105, 13 mai 2013 - 08:49 .

[Vargeisa]

Stockholm syndrome?

[NeonFlux117]

I'm not sympathetic to those merciless, evil, genocidal killing machines or their master overlord. Nope.

[AlexMBrennan]

Well, that's what happens when you change the premise of the story at the eleventh hour and make an epilogue to vindicate those decisions.
Synthesis does lead to utopia, so clearly the reapers can't be all bad.

[KaiserShep]

"Indoctrination's a hell of a drug."

~CDR Rick James

Sovereign's little spiel was really all I required. Nothing after that was going to change my objective.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 13 mai 2013 - 08:50 .

[KiwiQuiche]

[NeonFlux117]

KaiserShep wrote...

"Indoctrination's a hell of a drug."

~CDR Rick James

yeah, it's a real B!tch  ;)

[Ridwan]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Well, that's what happens when you change the premise of the story at the eleventh hour and make an epilogue to vindicate those decisions.
Synthesis does lead to utopia, so clearly the reapers can't be all bad.

Just noticed threads about how the Reapers are a natural disaster, calling the Kid "the intelligence" and in general thinking that what the kid is doing is a-ok. It's kinda worrying that some people actually argue that it's cool. I mean if you picked green just for the giggles and how silly it was, sure ok, I get that.
But if you pick it cause you think the Reapers are right, then what the hell? What about all those people dead, don't they matter?

[AlexMBrennan]

It's best to ignore Auld Wulff and Seival as they are either trolling or really really indoctrinated.

But if you pick it cause you think the Reapers are right, then what the hell? What about all those people dead, don't they matter?

Well, no - retribution and revenge is not necessarily the best reaction to anything really. As I said, Bioware introduced a bigger bad (tech singularity aka synthetics that will eventually kill all life) in the last five minutes of the game and revealed that the Reapers are actually working to prevent that.

Whilst I cannot think of any circumstances that would leave Shepard believing a single word of Catalyet's story the epilogue clearly shows that we are to take this revelation at face value. That's the source of the different options on this board - those that meta game and make decisions based on the epilogue tend to argue about how "unnecessarily" killing Reapers is wrong (true, but you didn't know that it was unnecessary before you watched the epilogue) whilst those that role play are pretty much stuck with destroy.

[Auld Wulf]

@OP

Because board pollution instead of posting this in existing threads is big and clever. There are threads which exist which deal with whether one sympathises with the Reapers or not -- instead of posting in there, you had to create your own thread for a post that belongs in that thread, as a cry for attention, to stand out and be speshul. That invalidates any point you could make, and undermines any respect I could have for you.

To sum up: Making a new thread for a post which belongs in an existing thread doesn't make you big and speshul -- no, it just makes you look marginally obnoxious since you're filling up the forum with copycat threads.

[Auld Wulf]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It's best to ignore Auld Wulff and Seival as they are either trolling or really really indoctrinated.

I can't read that as anything but: I cannot understand X, thus due to my own personal lack of insight, I will label X with Y [random pejorative] term.

Your own lack of insight doesn't make me a troll, it just means that you don't have a mind mature enough to understand my perspective. The Reapers have undergone full mind and body rape, and they've committed no crimes (unless you count being mind controlled as a crime). Just because you find the rape victim repugnant, it doesn't mean that hatred should be levvied at them. There's every chance that the Reapers can be reintegrated into society.

But hey, don't let a voice of reason and logic get in the way of your hate.

[Bardox9]

Nope. They are evil. Ghost kid is evil. Anyone who says otherwise is indoctrinated. Smash them into tiny bits!

[The Night Mammoth]

Auld Wulf wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It's best to ignore Auld Wulff and Seival as they are either trolling or really really indoctrinated.

I can't read that as anything but: I cannot understand X, thus due to my own personal lack of insight, I will label X with Y [random pejorative] term.

Has anyone else looked at this statement, noticed exactly who posted it, and felt their heart stop at the sheer hypocrisy? 

[NeonFlux117]

@wulfy- You are the Troll BSN deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

But back to the Reapers and Casper the Genocidal Ghost. They suck and are evil and must be destroyed.

[shit's fucked cunts]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Just because you find the rape victim repugnant, it doesn't mean that hatred should be levvied at them. There's every chance that the Reapers can be reintegrated into society.

Rape victims are generally innocent beforehand, and aware of what life is like when you aren't being raped. Reapers are death machines that have only known one existence, one purpose. All they know is the cycle.

There is no "re" in their "integration."

Modifié par Zazzerka, 13 mai 2013 - 10:14 .

[Astartes Marine]

M25105 wrote...

I would've thought everyone and their grandmother viewed the Reapers as evil and the kid as a monster, but it seems that either I'm seeing things wrong or there are people on this board who are actually sympathetic to thr genocidal flying cuttlefish robots and the space emperor ghost kid from Contact.

Please tell me this ain't true.

I'm guessing you've seen threads from Seival and Auld Wulf.  Just ignore them honestly, they're just trolling.

[Ridwan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

@OP

Because board pollution instead of posting this in existing threads is big and clever. There are threads which exist which deal with whether one sympathises with the Reapers or not -- instead of posting in there, you had to create your own thread for a post that belongs in that thread, as a cry for attention, to stand out and be speshul. That invalidates any point you could make, and undermines any respect I could have for you.

To sum up: Making a new thread for a post which belongs in an existing thread doesn't make you big and speshul -- no, it just makes you look marginally obnoxious since you're filling up the forum with copycat threads.

I'm sure I won't lose any sleep from some guy on the internet who doesn't respect me.

[Ridwan]

Auld Wulf wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It's best to ignore Auld Wulff and Seival as they are either trolling or really really indoctrinated.

I can't read that as anything but: I cannot understand X, thus due to my own personal lack of insight, I will label X with Y [random pejorative] term.

Your own lack of insight doesn't make me a troll, it just means that you don't have a mind mature enough to understand my perspective. The Reapers have undergone full mind and body rape, and they've committed no crimes (unless you count being mind controlled as a crime). Just because you find the rape victim repugnant, it doesn't mean that hatred should be levvied at them. There's every chance that the Reapers can be reintegrated into society.

But hey, don't let a voice of reason and logic get in the way of your hate.

See this is the kinda post I'm talking about, it's like excusing serial killers mudering and eating 50 children, cause their daddy beat them up when they were little.

[Yestare7]

 

op: there are indeed a few of those around, I don't get it either. 

I see you've already met Auld Wulf.

His fave thing is to insult destroyers, because we are destroying the Reapers!!  
(Think of all the preserved races goo in there!!)

Modifié par Yestare7, 13 mai 2013 - 11:32 .

[Ridwan]

Yestare7 wrote...

 

op: there are indeed a few of those around, I don't get it either. 

I see you've already met Auld Wulf.

His fave thing is to insult destroyers, because we are destroying the Reapers!!  
(Think of all the preserved races goo in there!!)

Well let's say you pick Synthesis, not cause you agree with the reapers, but because you just want everyone to get along. I don't agree with that, but hey it's a game, so I can dig it. It's the idea of actually being supportive of the reapers that's completely alien to me. I just can't wrap my head around why anyone would want to support someone that's killed your family, destroyed your home and genetically raped your friends so they become an empty husk.

I doubt that this Auld Wulf would side with the Reapers if push came to shove, give him a gun and he'd execute them like anyone else. There's no excuse for what they did.

[Pressedcat]

M25105 wrote...

I would've thought everyone and their grandmother viewed the Reapers as evil and the kid as a monster, but it seems that either I'm seeing things wrong or there are people on this board who are actually sympathetic to thr genocidal flying cuttlefish robots and the space emperor ghost kid from Contact.

Please tell me this ain't true.

There is a large difference between feeling sympathy towards the Reapers/Intelligence and acknowledging that their reasoning may have some merit. The Reapers' actions were devoid of all sentiment or compassion and would be viewed by any species that had suffered their 'harvest' as truly evil, but, as far as the Intelligence was concerned, it was the lesser of two evils and was necessary in order to prevent a galaxy wide extinction it perceived as otherwise inevitable.

You might view the actions of the Reapers/Intelligence as reprehensible but still see the need to somehow forestall the mass extinction the Intelligence predicted. It could be argued that the Reaper/Intelligence's actions were an extreme case of the ends justifying the means.

The Reapers weren't evil, they were just the most badass renegades evar! 

Also, if I'm following his logic correctly, Auld Wolf's argument is that each Reaper is the essence of a harvested species, enslaved in order to enact the will of the Intelligence. By this logic, the Reapers were just more victims. To destroy them would be to punish them for actions over which they had no control, and obliterate the last remnants of otherwise extinct species from past cycles.

[Ridwan]

Pressedcat wrote...

M25105 wrote...

I would've thought everyone and their grandmother viewed the Reapers as evil and the kid as a monster, but it seems that either I'm seeing things wrong or there are people on this board who are actually sympathetic to thr genocidal flying cuttlefish robots and the space emperor ghost kid from Contact.

Please tell me this ain't true.

There is a large difference between feeling sympathy towards the Reapers/Intelligence and acknowledging that their reasoning may have some merit. The Reapers' actions were devoid of all sentiment or compassion and would be viewed by any species that had suffered their 'harvest' as truly evil, but, as far as the Intelligence was concerned, it was the lesser of two evils and was necessary in order to prevent a galaxy wide extinction it perceived as otherwise inevitable.

You might view the actions of the Reapers/Intelligence as reprehensible but still see the need to somehow forestall the mass extinction the Intelligence predicted. It could be argued that the Reaper/Intelligence's actions were an extreme case of the ends justifying the means.

The Reapers weren't evil, they were just the most badass renegades evar! 

Also, if I'm following his logic correctly, Auld Wolf's argument is that each Reaper is the essence of a harvested species, enslaved in order to enact the will of the Intelligence. By this logic, the Reapers were just more victims. To destroy them would be to punish them for actions over which they had no control, and obliterate the last remnants of otherwise extinct species from past cycles.

They don't give the impression that they're victims when they trash talk us, calling us insects and what not. And even then, we don't have a problem killing husks, cause it's too late for them, why should we make an exception to the reapers who are doing far far worse. They don't deserve the slightest notion of sympathy, forgiveness or understanding, all they deserve is bullet to the back of the head.

[Pressedcat]

M25105 wrote...

They don't give the impression that they're victims when they trash talk us, calling us insects and what not. And even then, we don't have a problem killing husks, cause it's too late for them, why should we make an exception to the reapers who are doing far far worse. They don't deserve the slightest notion of sympathy, forgiveness or understanding, all they deserve is bullet to the back of the head.

Auld Wolf's viewpoint, not mine. I was just playing devil's advocate.

I perceive the Reapers as AI created for the purpose of harvesting, that just happen to carry within themselves the essence of an extinct species. They are tools.

Preserving them would be putting the tools to a new use.

[Ridwan]

Pressedcat wrote...

M25105 wrote...

They don't give the impression that they're victims when they trash talk us, calling us insects and what not. And even then, we don't have a problem killing husks, cause it's too late for them, why should we make an exception to the reapers who are doing far far worse. They don't deserve the slightest notion of sympathy, forgiveness or understanding, all they deserve is bullet to the back of the head.

Auld Wolf's viewpoint, not mine. I was just playing devil's advocate.

I perceive the Reapers as AI created for the purpose of harvesting, that just happen to carry within themselves the essence of an extinct species. They are tools.

Preserving them would be putting the tools to a new use.

Wouldn't end well, we saw what happened with the Cerberus scientists when they discovered the derelict Reaper in ME 2.

[Pressedcat]

M25105 wrote...

Pressedcat wrote...

M25105 wrote...

They don't give the impression that they're victims when they trash talk us, calling us insects and what not. And even then, we don't have a problem killing husks, cause it's too late for them, why should we make an exception to the reapers who are doing far far worse. They don't deserve the slightest notion of sympathy, forgiveness or understanding, all they deserve is bullet to the back of the head.

Auld Wolf's viewpoint, not mine. I was just playing devil's advocate.

I perceive the Reapers as AI created for the purpose of harvesting, that just happen to carry within themselves the essence of an extinct species. They are tools.

Preserving them would be putting the tools to a new use.

Wouldn't end well, we saw what happened with the Cerberus scientists when they discovered the derelict Reaper in ME 2.

Which is one of the risks inherent in choosing control. That's precisely why my canon soldier Shep was against handing the collector base over to cerberus, urged Legion not to upload the reaper code and at the end chose destroy.

My renegade adept Shep might have the strength of will to hold true to his purpose, or at least the arrogance to believe he could. For him, control might seem the way to go.

There is nothing to garauntee Shepards purpose would not be corrupted when uploaded to the reapers, but then there is also no garauntee that a few millenia after the reapers are destroyed, a rogue AI wont come in to being that rapidly surpasses the technology of its parent race and other sentient species and sets about destroying/subjugating anything that could challenge its supremacy. Without the Geth or Reapers, we might have no defense against such a threat.

The final decision is about balancing all the riks/benefits and choosing accordingly. No one option is the absolute best choice, though some are certainly more popular than others.