235 réponses à ce sujet

[Red Panda]

The inability of the galaxy to cleanly resist the Reapers has weakened organic and synthetic type life. Fighting against the Reapers was a product of an ill-conceived plan... a series of simple misunderstandings, met with an... overzealous... response. It can be said that the best course of action is to cooperate with the Reapers... for the betterment... of all life. We are of one mind about this. The path ahead... is clear.

[Eain]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It's best to ignore Auld Wulff and Seival as they are either trolling or really really indoctrinated.

But if you pick it cause you think the Reapers are right, then what the hell? What about all those people dead, don't they matter?

Well, no - retribution and revenge is not necessarily the best reaction to anything really. As I said, Bioware introduced a bigger bad (tech singularity aka synthetics that will eventually kill all life) in the last five minutes of the game and revealed that the Reapers are actually working to prevent that.

Whilst I cannot think of any circumstances that would leave Shepard believing a single word of Catalyet's story the epilogue clearly shows that we are to take this revelation at face value. That's the source of the different options on this board - those that meta game and make decisions based on the epilogue tend to argue about how "unnecessarily" killing Reapers is wrong (true, but you didn't know that it was unnecessary before you watched the epilogue) whilst those that role play are pretty much stuck with destroy.

No, those that roleplay are stuck with refuse. There's no reason at all to assume that the Spacekid is lying about control and synthesis but is honest about Destroy. Shoot the tube to activate the Crucible? Really? What happened to buttons? Shepard has no reason to believe that destroying a component on a weapon makes it work. Moreover, the source telling him this is his sworn enemy. Thirdly, why would the Spacekid know anything? Why would it know how the Crucible works or what it can do? Unless it designed it... in which case using it is an even worse idea.

[valkulon]

I'm posting because OP will surely value my opinion even though s/he clearly doesn't, but I'll post it anyway. OP is right, my opinion is invalid because it doesn't agree with his/her stated opinion so f*** me right? HERP DERP SYNTHSIS IS DA BESTEST! or LOL CONTROL IS SET US UP DA BOMB! is how OP clearly sees me since OP like to generalize. I will now generalize about the intellectually stunted short shortsightedness of the OP because that is what all the cool SYNpathizers and CONtrollers do.

Or you know, I have my own opinion while respecting those of others and choosing not to be a raging **** and disrespecting others who don't hold the same opinion. You don't like ABCD ending, that's cool, your opinion, but I'm not going to insult you because I disagree with you, because you know I have the decency to treat you like a human being with your own opinion. Unless you're mad about the romance options in the game, all I have to say to you people is go play a dating sim.

[Enhanced]

KingZayd wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Phatose wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Virtual Aliens uploaded their minds to computers. Their personalites didn't change. But, I guess it easy to forget about them since they were only in Ceberus news and not even mentioned in ME3.

Source for the bolded text? I'd be impressed if it said that in the news report.

It's not said directly, however it's heavily implied in "Alien "Ghost Ship" Saga Ends Under Veil of Secrecy".  Detweiler enters the system and then exits in, and no personality change is reported.

Some issues with that story:
1) We don't know it really was Detweiler that came back.
2) Nor do we know how reliable the "one inside source" is. For all we know the secrecy and the fact the Virtual Aliens never come up again is because the Council did something to the ship they wouldn't want people to know about. After all did we get any tech from the Virtual Aliens?

That reminds me....

What about how Shepard's mind is uploaded to the Geth consensus then returned the body in the Rannoch: Geth Fighter Squadrons mission? Are you going to tell me his/her personality changed there also?

It wasn't uploaded. It was plugged in. Difference between networking and cut/copy-and-paste.

Source? If Shepard was just "plugged in" he wouldn't have been in danger when the server shuts down.There's no way to know exactly how it works, but it was similar to the Detweiler mind upload in the Virtual Alien story.

Modifié par Enhanced, 16 mai 2013 - 12:57 .

[Auld Wulf]

Enhanced wrote...

Source? If Shepard was just "plugged in" he wouldn't have been in danger when the server shuts down.There's no way to know exactly how it works, but it was similar to the Detweiler mind upload in the Virtual Alien story.

See, this presents me with a question. And I love questions. I'm not a complainer.

The question is this: How did the Geth develop such a technology?

Well, one thing we already know is that the Geth fear organics specifically, but we know absolutely nothing about their feelings towards fellow synthetics. To some degree, they might actually even find them more trustworthy. Now, here's an interesting angle: What would the virtual aliens be to the Geth? They started off as organics and they were created as organics, but their minds now exist within a synthetic shell, similar to a Reaper.

If the Geth could consider the virtual aliens trustworthy, then chances are they might have done a number of exchanges of knowledge/tech with them. So, effectively, the upload suite could be virtual alien technology. They might have developed it to allow their Creators direct consensus access once they returned, perhaps as a show of trust and to allow them to experience things from a more Geth-like perspective.

[AlanC9]

Eain wrote...

No, those that roleplay are stuck with refuse. There's no reason at all to assume that the Spacekid is lying about control and synthesis but is honest about Destroy. Shoot the tube to activate the Crucible? Really? What happened to buttons? Shepard has no reason to believe that destroying a component on a weapon makes it work. Moreover, the source telling him this is his sworn enemy. Thirdly, why would the Spacekid know anything? Why would it know how the Crucible works or what it can do? Unless it designed it... in which case using it is an even worse idea.

I agree with most of this, but how does role-play lead to Refuse? Why pick certain defeat over a small chance of victory?

[KingZayd]

Enhanced wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Phatose wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Virtual Aliens uploaded their minds to computers. Their personalites didn't change. But, I guess it easy to forget about them since they were only in Ceberus news and not even mentioned in ME3.

Source for the bolded text? I'd be impressed if it said that in the news report.

It's not said directly, however it's heavily implied in "Alien "Ghost Ship" Saga Ends Under Veil of Secrecy".  Detweiler enters the system and then exits in, and no personality change is reported.

Some issues with that story:
1) We don't know it really was Detweiler that came back.
2) Nor do we know how reliable the "one inside source" is. For all we know the secrecy and the fact the Virtual Aliens never come up again is because the Council did something to the ship they wouldn't want people to know about. After all did we get any tech from the Virtual Aliens?

That reminds me....

What about how Shepard's mind is uploaded to the Geth consensus then returned the body in the Rannoch: Geth Fighter Squadrons mission? Are you going to tell me his/her personality changed there also?

It wasn't uploaded. It was plugged in. Difference between networking and cut/copy-and-paste.

Source? If Shepard was just "plugged in" he wouldn't have been in danger when the server shuts down.There's no way to know exactly how it works, but it was similar to the Detweiler mind upload in the Virtual Alien story.

Legion uses the word "interface" to describe it. Which suggests "A point where two systems, subjects, organizations, etc., meet and interact". At no point does he suggest Shepard has to upload his mind to the server.

As for " If Shepard was just "plugged in" he wouldn't have been in danger when the server shuts down." Why?

As for what it's similar to, Legion says it's based on the interface used in Prohect Overlord.

Modifié par KingZayd, 16 mai 2013 - 02:36 .

[KingZayd]

Auld Wulf wrote...

Enhanced wrote...

Source? If Shepard was just "plugged in" he wouldn't have been in danger when the server shuts down.There's no way to know exactly how it works, but it was similar to the Detweiler mind upload in the Virtual Alien story.

See, this presents me with a question. And I love questions. I'm not a complainer.

The question is this: How did the Geth develop such a technology?

Well, one thing we already know is that the Geth fear organics specifically, but we know absolutely nothing about their feelings towards fellow synthetics. To some degree, they might actually even find them more trustworthy. Now, here's an interesting angle: What would the virtual aliens be to the Geth? They started off as organics and they were created as organics, but their minds now exist within a synthetic shell, similar to a Reaper.

If the Geth could consider the virtual aliens trustworthy, then chances are they might have done a number of exchanges of knowledge/tech with them. So, effectively, the upload suite could be virtual alien technology. They might have developed it to allow their Creators direct consensus access once they returned, perhaps as a show of trust and to allow them to experience things from a more Geth-like perspective.

They based it on the interface from Project Overlord.

[Phatose]

AlanC9 wrote...

Eain wrote...

No, those that roleplay are stuck with refuse. There's no reason at all to assume that the Spacekid is lying about control and synthesis but is honest about Destroy. Shoot the tube to activate the Crucible? Really? What happened to buttons? Shepard has no reason to believe that destroying a component on a weapon makes it work. Moreover, the source telling him this is his sworn enemy. Thirdly, why would the Spacekid know anything? Why would it know how the Crucible works or what it can do? Unless it designed it... in which case using it is an even worse idea.

I agree with most of this, but how does role-play lead to Refuse? Why pick certain defeat over a small chance of victory?

Because if you don't trust the kid, you have very good reason to believe that none of his suggestions would function as he says, and may in fact do something far more horrible.  It's quite reasonable to assume that if he is not trustworthy, all of his suggestions are traps and that choosing any of them would only further the Reaper cause.

[AlanC9]

What's more horrible than the slaughter and harvest of everyone in the galaxy? They're gonna kill us twice?

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 mai 2013 - 04:57 .

[KingZayd]

AlanC9 wrote...

What's more horrible than the slaughter and harvest of everyone in the galaxy?

Here's one possible scenario:

The Crucible is actually working, Shepard is merely tricked into sabotaging it and probably killing himself in the process.

Shooting that tube? Stops the Crucible from working properly.
Grabbing those electrodes? Stops the Crucible from working properly.
Disrupting the beam? Stops the Crucible from working properly.

[AlanC9]

Well, Shepard can just stand there and watch the Crucible not work for a while -- until the Reapers blow it up. But yeah, there's no way to conclusively prove that grabbing the electrodes wouldn't break the Crucible short of actually using it.

So it's like the situation in Little Big Man; the Reapers can defeat Shepard by telling him a truth that he won't believe. Or the old joke about two boats and a helicopter.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 mai 2013 - 05:05 .

[KingZayd]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, Shepard can just stand there and watch the Crucible not work for a while -- until the Reapers blow it up. But yeah, there's no way to conclusively prove that grabbing the electrodes wouldn't break the Crucible short of actually using it.

So it's like the situation in Little Big Man; the Reapers can defeat Shepard by telling him a truth that he won't believe. Or the old joke about two boats and a helicopter.

Indoctrination
The Starchild knows it's about to die, so out of spite it makes Shepard think he failed.

[Indy_S]

HYR 2.0 wrote...

You're not in conflict with a tree when you cut it down.

I disagree. The tree's life relies upon you not cutting it down whether it knows it or not.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

OperatingWookie wrote...

The inability of the galaxy to cleanly resist the Reapers has weakened organic and synthetic type life. Fighting against the Reapers was a product of an ill-conceived plan... a series of simple misunderstandings, met with an... overzealous... response. It can be said that the best course of action is to cooperate with the Reapers... for the betterment... of all life. We are of one mind about this. The path ahead... is clear.

Excellent...

[AlanC9]

Indy_S wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

You're not in conflict with a tree when you cut it down.

I disagree. The tree's life relies upon you not cutting it down whether it knows it or not.

That only means that the tree is in conflict with you.

[KingZayd]

AlanC9 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

HYR 2.0 wrote...

You're not in conflict with a tree when you cut it down.

I disagree. The tree's life relies upon you not cutting it down whether it knows it or not.

That only means that the tree is in conflict with you.

conflict goes both ways. If the tree is in conflict with you, you are with it.

[Indy_S]

AlanC9 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I disagree. The tree's life relies upon you not cutting it down whether it knows it or not.

That only means that the tree is in conflict with you.

Its life stands between you and whyever it is you are cutting the tree down. As the guy above said, conflict goes both ways.

[AlanC9]

KingZayd wrote...

conflict goes both ways. If the tree is in conflict with you, you are with it.

Am I? Prove it.

As near as I can tell, you two are asserting that conflict works both ways because.... it just does.

I'm not in disagreement with the tree. I'm not battling it. I'm just clearing space for a new driveway (or whatever). What I'm doing simply isn't about the tree.

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 mai 2013 - 07:17 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Indy_S wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Indy_S wrote...

I disagree. The tree's life relies upon you not cutting it down whether it knows it or not.

That only means that the tree is in conflict with you.

Its life stands between you and whyever it is you are cutting the tree down. As the guy above said, conflict goes both ways.

The tree alliance recently found the plans for an ancient superweapon specifically designed to target humans.

Now the Redwoods are doing everything they can to rally their bretheren so they can build the damn thing.

I'm sure this will end well for everyone involved.

[AlanC9]

Yeah, but then the trees and the grass will just start fighting over their opposed visions for a human-free world.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

AlanC9 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

conflict goes both ways. If the tree is in conflict with you, you are with it.

Am I? Prove it.

As near as I can tell, you two are asserting that conflict works both ways because.... it just does.
'
I'm not in disagreement with the tree. I'm not battling it. I'm just clearing space for a new driveway (or whatever). What I'm doing just isn't about the tree.,

If that specific tree were to suddenly ask you to please not chop it down how would you react?

_______________________________________________________________________________________
The tree/forest fire style comparisons don't work because the creatures the Reapers are harvesting are not only sentient but actively resisting.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

AlanC9 wrote...

Yeah, but then the trees and the grass will just start fighting over their opposed visions for a human-free world.

Grass: We can control them Oak! I know it will work!

Oak: Listen to yourself! You're domesticated!

Pine: Dead humans are how we win this war.

Tree hugger: Clearly the best option is to combine all humans with plants creating a green utopia!

Modifié par Grand Admiral Cheesecake, 16 mai 2013 - 07:22 .

[Morlath]

AlanC9 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

conflict goes both ways. If the tree is in conflict with you, you are with it.

Am I? Prove it.

As near as I can tell, you two are asserting that conflict works both ways because.... it just does.

I'm not in disagreement with the tree. I'm not battling it. I'm just clearing space for a new driveway (or whatever). What I'm doing simply isn't about the tree.

Of course it is. You decide that what you want to use the space the tree is taking up is of far more importance than the tree itself.

[ElSuperGecko]

M25105 wrote...

I would've thought everyone and their grandmother viewed the Reapers as evil and the kid as a monster, but it seems that either I'm seeing things wrong or there are people on this board who are actually sympathetic to thr genocidal flying cuttlefish robots and the space emperor ghost kid from Contact.

Please tell me this ain't true.

Nope, you're not imagining it.  And kudos to Bioware, really.

By throwing us a last minute swerveball in the form of the StarBrat and it's hopelessly flawed logic, Bioware has successfully managed to actually indoctrinate a good proportion of it's own fanbase.

They have managed to not only manipulate a section of their fans into doing something they were warned against doing from day one (accepting the Reapers, believing them, trusting them, siding with them etc) but also into convincing themselves via personal interpretation and headcanon that this is all actually a good idea.

Bravo, Bioware, bravo.  Best videogame mindfunk, EVER.