66 réponses à ce sujet

[Wayning_Star]

Hexi-decimal wrote...

Bizinha wrote...

From ashes too...

True story.  I have to admit DLC in general is starting to get to me.  It's just gets more and more annoying.  So you want me to pay for DLC on day one that obviously could have been included for launch?  Ok no prob I love your product.  Oh you are bringing out more DLC that you want me to pay for?  Ok sure I love your product.  Wait, the DLC helps the story and it's ending considerably, almost to the point of making it necessary, so it should have just been included since the beginning?   Well sure ok I love your product.  I have to wait three days to download ALL of this because your servers suck.......&%#$ you guys I am out.

yeah, Microsoft updates are funny business... The 'trend' is set, apparently.

[AresKeith]

Bleachrude wrote...

And the DLCs for ME3 are legit.

The only thing on disc for Javik is his character model and powers. Neither the mission or any of his comments, in-squad banter, crew interaction etc are on-disc.

Which is what you could do with Kasumi in ME2.

By legit I mean DLCs that weren't planned originally in the game like Leviathan (in terms) and Citadel DLC

[Bleachrude]

But javik wasn't planned out...if you find the leaked scripts, javik was more of a plot point (apparently, he WAS the catalyst at one point) but things change.

I'll give another example.

Return to ostagar. Return to Ostagar came out several months AFTER DA:O, however, on the DA:O, there's actual cut dialogue involving both Loghain and Alistair at ostagar...one can't argue that DA:O didn't have a long enough development time yet that's clear indication that the designers wanted to return to ostagar pretty early in development (at least early enough that they had started recording dialogue for parties that had BOTH alistair and loghain)

[Hexi-decimal]

Dendio1 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

What missions would you have cut out for dlc in order to get from ashes and leviathan into the base game?

You shouldn't have to cut out in-game content just to make DLC sales, DLCs should be legit

That's the kind of crap Metro: Last Light just pulled

Devs have stated that dlc is often work that they had to put off in order to get other content in.

Listen, I love the bioware Dev team, they do good work in my opinion.  But they have to be company men to a certain degree in order to keep their jobs, this includes lying to us or twisting the story.  I am willing to believe Javik and his story was not completely finished at the point EA said, take to print, but it was finished shortly afterwards, obviously.  It's entirely possible that they simply couldn't fit him in for print and had to finish him up afterwards as day one DLC.  And considering DLC still has overhead costs associated with them, it's only natural for EA to want to recoup the money and then some for it.  However, it's also just as likely that they could have fit it in and simply didn't since they knew they could get more money out of it as day one DLC since it's a new squad mate and a prothean one at that.

I would like to believe the former of these scenarios, but refuse to simply believe one out of pure fanboisim or cynasisim.  

Modifié par Hexi-decimal, 13 mai 2013 - 10:12 .

[Jadebaby]

From Ashes, Leviathan and maybe even Omega too.

[AlanC9]

Why not Citadel as long as you're at it?

[AlanC9]

Hexi-decimal wrote...
It's entirely possible that they simply couldn't fit him in for print and had to finish him up afterwards as day one DLC.  And considering DLC still has overhead costs associated with them, it's only natural for EA to want to recoup the money and then some for it.  However, it's also just as likely that they could have fit it in and simply didn't since they knew they could get more money out of it as day one DLC since it's a new squad mate and a prothean one at that.

I would like to believe the former of these scenarios, but refuse to simply believe one out of pure fanboisim or cynasisim.  

Actually, the former scenario is almost certainly not the case. Day 1 DLC is EA policy and has been since before ME2 shipped. ME3 was always going to have some kind of Day 1 DLC, either From Ashes or something else. The product plan would have specified it from inception.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 mai 2013 - 10:28 .

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

Why not Citadel as long as you're at it?

Because Citadel wasn't plot essential or originally planned in the game

[AlanC9]

None of the DLCs were plot essential.

[Hexi-decimal]

Dendio1 wrote...

What missions would you have cut out for dlc in order to get from ashes and leviathan into the base game?

I would have cut some if not all of the side missions myself.  

[L_B_123]

Apart from citadel they all should have. Leviathan fixes the endings so they're not completely awful, javik was on disk and YOU should NEVER advertise a DLC in the game that it is dlc for. Aria's constant ill take Omega back was an advertisement in itself- I shouldn't know of dlc you clearly planned to make before you even finished the game as that will have been added to the  script early on.
Only citadel was off disk and wasnt that originally a ME2 dlc?

Modifié par L_B_123, 13 mai 2013 - 10:30 .

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

None of the DLCs were plot essential.

Leviathan is plot essential

From Ashes (will always be debatable) was partly originally in the game

Omega was originally part of them

Citadel is the only DLC that's none of those two, which is how DLC should be IMO, plus DLC characters

[Hexi-decimal]

L_B_123 wrote...

Apart from citadel they all should have. Leviathan fixes the endings so they're not completely awful, javik was on disk and YOU should NEVER advertise a DLC in the game that it is dlc for. Aria's constant ill take Omega back was an advertisement in itself- I shouldn't know of dlc you clearly planned to make before you even finished the game as that will har ren added tote script early on.
Only citadel was off disk and wasnt that originally a ME2 dlc?

I disagree.  Leviathan felt like the only DLC that was really important to the stories end, and considering how weak it was (even though I liked the concept it was still done poorly at first) it needed some foreshadowing.  

Aria's continued threats are indeed an advertisment...advertisments are meant to make you buy something...job accomplished.  Omega was fun, and I enjoyed more Aria T'Lok but it was far from necessary from completely the main story line, if anything it detracted slightly, but that is my opinion.  I haven't got to mess around with the citedel DLC yet so no clue there.

[Eterna]

A pie and some assorted fruits should have also been included at Launch.

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

Leviathan is plot essential

I don't see it. It's interesting to know who built the Catalyst, but ultimately not very important.

Modifié par AlanC9, 13 mai 2013 - 10:46 .

[Hexi-decimal]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Leviathan is plot essential

I don't see it. It's interesting to know who built the Catalyst, but ultimately not very important.

It's about making the starbrat less of a pill to swallow.  Essential may be a strong word, but it certainly makes the ending seem less half baked.  That is really what I am getting at here.  From leviathan you learn the basics of who the reapers are, who created them and why they exisit now.  So when you get to the end of the game not everything is dropped on you at once.  Who the reapers are, their true purpose, etc etc etc.  It also creates a strong argument for potentially both the green and blue endings, in that Leviathan(s) have no intention of just winning the war, but once the reapers are gone they plan on subjegating everyone.

[Sith_exar_kun]

I see it as a great addition to the main game but not essential at all.

[The Night Mammoth]

How exactly would Leviathan have fit into the game at launch? It works because it's an addition, and even then I find it quite jarring to have the game completely ignore all that important exposition after the mission is over.

[Pressedcat]

I certainly would have welcomed having Leviathan included in the initial release of the game since it adds clarity to the end-game, but since at the time of release the ideas for Leviathan were at most nebulous, and quite likely non-existant, this was not possible.

My feelings for first-day dlc are mixed. I understand how it comes about: not all ideas can be incorporated into the main game, and there is a cut off point in development after which no more new content can be added and all efforts go into quality control, production and distribution. During this period some members of the development team are left unoccupied and may begin developing content which will instead have to be distributed as dlc. These developers still need to be paid for their time (since they could otherwise begin their holidays/work reduced hours), so it is reasonable this cost be transferred on to the customer. That's why they feel justified in charging.

For me, the presence of day-1-dlc can be an irritant: I've only just purchased the game and already I'm missing out on content. For many games I don't care, but for ME I know I'll invariably buy all extra content, so unless I purchase the dlc my first playthroughs will be incomplete. But I've already paid full price when waiting a couple of weeks would have netted me a sale copy, so I kind of resent paying full price for day-1-dlc as well.

For me, a happy compromise would be if day-1-dlc was either free or reduced for the first couple of days. That way you reward those customers that pre-order/purchase on day one. But then, without their financial data, I can only state my preferences, not what is most financially viable.

[Hexi-decimal]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

How exactly would Leviathan have fit into the game at launch? It works because it's an addition, and even then I find it quite jarring to have the game completely ignore all that important exposition after the mission is over.

The reason it DIDN'T work as dlc is the reason you gave for it working.  The reson there was exposition later is BECAUSE it was an addition to the game rather than part of it's core.  If had been part of the story from the outset then exposition would have existed.

[DDK]

I hate that I paid for Leviathan.

Not only was it pure plot filler, but it was very poorly executed. Shepard is distinctly out of character on dialogue and actions and the gameplay scenarios are atrocious.

The sole redeeming factor of it was the Leviathan itself and the final area which looked visually cool and the dropping to the seafloor was well done.

[L_B_123]

I think they cut bits out that referenced leviathan so it's dlc- I mean Vega gets all development on this mission, plus it's helpful for the ending and omega I never played for the advert purpose, if I was watching a movie and at the end it said the real ending will come out next month I would go watch it- release it as it should be. Even the hobbit annoys me that they've managed to cu it into three parts for money

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Leviathan is plot essential

I don't see it. It's interesting to know who built the Catalyst, but ultimately not very important.

Leviathan gave actual foreshadowing to the Catalyst, a DLC shouldn't have to do that

[Bleachrude]

Day 1 DLC is because sales track downward the further from the original release date.

Doesn't really matter the quality of the game itself OR the reviews of the DLC, the further away from the main game it is released, the worse it sells.

(I'm willing to bet that citadel for example, sold worse than Leviathan or Omega)

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I think a good ending should have been included at launch. :runs: