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[The Night Mammoth]

Hexi-decimal wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

How exactly would Leviathan have fit into the game at launch? It works because it's an addition, and even then I find it quite jarring to have the game completely ignore all that important exposition after the mission is over.

The reason it DIDN'T work as dlc is the reason you gave for it working.  The reson there was exposition later is BECAUSE it was an addition to the game rather than part of it's core.  If had been part of the story from the outset then exposition would have existed.

I don't understand. I think it would have been more jarring to have random exposition which the game doesn't acknowledge at all, until the very end. It only worked because it was DLC. If you're suggesting that had it been part of the core game there wouldn't have been more exposition at the end, we've moved on to conjecture.

[Linkenski]

Mr.House wrote...

Leviathan is the only real foreshadowing for the Intelligence so yes it should have been included in the game. You never, and I mean never introduce a new character at the end of the story unless it has been properly forshadowed

Yeah but they only made up Leviathan after they realised that the ending was too sudden and contrived for the fans to appreciate it. I didn't expect the ending to turn out the way it did,  but i certainly didn't expect it to end when you opened the arms of the Citadel,  because after all the Vendetta VI does mention that the Reapers have a "master" who is in control during the mission on Thessia. 

[Arisugawa]

Jadebaby wrote...

From Ashes, Leviathan and maybe even Omega too.

+1

Absolutely. Omega, on it's own, is a lackluster DLC. If it had been included as part of the main game it would have been seen as a focal part of Aria's story and the war on Cerberus.

As a stand alone release, it is unnecessary, providing details that do not affect a story we have already seen to its conclusion and events that, even in the context of the overall narrative, are inconsequential.

I expect more from additional paid content than what Omega gave to me. I would look upon it much more favorably had it been included as part of the initial release.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Leviathan was a concept that should have been in the game at launch, but it also was not created (or even thought of) until after release.

It just goes to show how much the writers 'dun ****ed up.

Omega was something that should have been in. That was directly cut from the game to be sold as later content.

In truth, Omega probably would have worked better as an ME2 DLC.

[Bleachrude]

I asked this before in a different thread, but I'll ask it again here.

Across the trilogy, what DLCs do you think you would pay for YET should NOT be "included" in the main game.

re: Omega
Er, LotSB has the exact same hook as Omega...when you go to Illium and meet Liara, it kind of screams "buy this DLC".

[LD Little Dragon]

Bleachrude wrote...

And the DLCs for ME3 are legit.

The only thing on disc for Javik is his character model and powers. Neither the mission or any of his comments, in-squad banter, crew interaction etc are on-disc.

Which is what you could do with Kasumi in ME2.

If you unlock Javik with gibbed you don't get his missions and any cargo-bay based interactions. But you do get Javik's crew interactions outside of the cargo bay, and a normal squadmate complete with banter on missions.  So roughly 2/3 of the dlc content is  on-disc.

[ImperatorMortis]

If all the DLC's were in from the start especially Citadel, the game would have been far more satisfying overall.

Modifié par ImperatorMortis, 14 mai 2013 - 02:08 .

[Big Bad]

ImperatorMortis wrote...

If all the DLC's were in from the start especially Citadel, the game would have been far more satisfying overall.

IMHO, having Citadel included in with the original game would have been VERY weird.  It really only works as an after-the-fact, final statement on the ME trilogy as a whole, not as part of the core ME3 narrative. 

Edit:  that's not to say that I don't adore it, because I do.

Modifié par Big Bad, 14 mai 2013 - 02:19 .

[TheIdiocyWizard2.0]

Eh, yes and no. It would definitely make the ending less jarring, but it would be kind of jarring itself because, as someone mentioned above, it's not really ever mentioned again until the very end. They would have to add more dialogue after it talking about it to make it fit in more.

As it stands now, Leviathan seems almost nothing more than a half-assed attempt to explain the ending since almost everyone was scratching they're heads and going, "whuh...?"
At least, that's my opinion.

[KingZayd]

IntelligentME3Fanboy wrote...

 haha people whine about a DLC character who should be in the main game.Look at Metro:Last Light.Hard mode DLC

Seriously? Definitely going to wait for the Steam sales now.

[MegaSovereign]

Not really. Leviathan, Omega, and Citadel only make sense as DLC missions. Leviathan is lore heavy but all of it is non-essential backstory.

From Ashes should have been in the game on the basis that a lot of the main mission content was developed with Javik in mind....

[KingZayd]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Not really. Leviathan, Omega, and Citadel only make sense as DLC missions. Leviathan is lore heavy but all of it is non-essential backstory.

From Ashes should have been in the game on the basis that a lot of the main mission content was developed with Javik in mind....

Haven't played any of these, but to me that bolded text sounds like description for  a  good side mission.

Modifié par KingZayd, 14 mai 2013 - 02:45 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Big Bad wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

If all the DLC's were in from the start especially Citadel, the game would have been far more satisfying overall.

IMHO, having Citadel included in with the original game would have been VERY weird.  It really only works as an after-the-fact, final statement on the ME trilogy as a whole, not as part of the core ME3 narrative. 

Edit:  that's not to say that I don't adore it, because I do.

I think that in some ways, Citadel (at least the Party Part) works as a post-destroy get together for the survivors of the Normandy. It seems to have been made to be fairly ambiguous in it's timeline, as it is not very referential of a lot of the stuff that goes on in-game.

[IanPolaris]

Leviathan was first, last, and always a blatent posterior pull by the Devs in order to try to justify the endings ex-post facto. Essentially it was (using TV Tropes), an "author's saving throw". To my knowledge there was no plans for the Leviathan Mission (at least in it's final form) before the game was released.

The only reason the Leviathans were written the way they were was to:

1. Try to justify the existance of the starkid after the fact.
2. Give a reason why not to pick the destroy option

I also would add that the very existance of the Leviathans, with their powers, orbs, and history IMHO cause at least as many plot holes as it solves. The most important of which is if a Levi (with it's orbs) can pull a Reaper out of space (and we see this), and if others can learn the Levi techniques (and we know we can because Shepard can learn them), and if we know that the orb artifacts can reach across the galaxy and allow the users super-luminal reach (via a psuedo-QEC effect), then there is no reason why the crucible is really necessary. In just a few years it should be possible for biotic/telepathic strike teams to destroy the Reapers in droves.

IF that is true, then it begs the question why the Leviathans didn't do that a long time ago....

-Polaris

[AlanC9]

LittleDragon3 wrote...

If you unlock Javik with gibbed you don't get his missions and any cargo-bay based interactions. But you do get Javik's crew interactions outside of the cargo bay, and a normal squadmate complete with banter on missions.  So roughly 2/3 of the dlc content is  on-disc.

Is that 2/3 measured in disk space? Gameplay time? Made-up stats?

[Big Bad]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Big Bad wrote...

ImperatorMortis wrote...

If all the DLC's were in from the start especially Citadel, the game would have been far more satisfying overall.

IMHO, having Citadel included in with the original game would have been VERY weird.  It really only works as an after-the-fact, final statement on the ME trilogy as a whole, not as part of the core ME3 narrative. 

Edit:  that's not to say that I don't adore it, because I do.

I think that in some ways, Citadel (at least the Party Part) works as a post-destroy get together for the survivors of the Normandy. It seems to have been made to be fairly ambiguous in it's timeline, as it is not very referential of a lot of the stuff that goes on in-game.

That's pretty much how I treat it too, only with MEHEM, so it requires even less head-canoning. 

[Xamufam]

Dendio1 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

What missions would you have cut out for dlc in order to get from ashes and leviathan into the base game?

You shouldn't have to cut out in-game content just to make DLC sales, DLCs should be legit

That's the kind of crap Metro: Last Light just pulled

Devs have stated that dlc is often work that they had to put off in order to get other content in.

Leviathan wasn't planned before ME3's release

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