94 réponses à ce sujet

[koschwarz74]

volus merc is a very special kit indeed. i consider it a well-designed kit even if it's not the most powerful one. the only one that really can utilise decoy since it has a free cloak. cloak, run up to the enemy, decoy, retreat.

[suthelly]

The Rainbow Reaper wrote...

viper_veteran wrote...
- The fury would have been better off with reave instead of throw for the DR bonuses plus it's a hitscan power

all of my wats.

I would've liked an adept with dark channel/reave.  Or any other biotic hitscan primer/detonator pair.  Just to avoid projectile dodging.

[dasfranken]

I really like classes that work well without needing to use two instant cooldown powers back to back in order to be effective (With an exception for the Human Adept). Fury, MQE, Drell Adept, Geth Trooper, Destroyer, GI, Slayer, etc..

The Batarian Soldier shines here. Incredible AoE damage, toughness, stagger, good movement speed, but no dodge. Whereas many class rely on biotic and tech combos to shine, the Batarian Soldier just simply keeps killing with pure close quarters awesomeness.

I think the Human Adept is the ideal biotic caster (with the singularity redesign). All of his/her powers make sense and compliment each other, and he/she can handle mooks and bosses effectively from any range . The only thing that can really screw this class up is if teammates spam overload and disruptor ammo on things you prime.

I think the Collector Adept deserves special mention, and I think Bioware was onto something here. This class offers a lot of choice to the player.
Do I detonate Dark Sphere now to finish off the enemies, but make my self vulnerable with a lengthy cooldown?
Should I give up damage reduction from my swarms in order to detonate a combo?

The ability to throw seeker swarms anytime after you've summoned them (even when something is on cooldown) works really well with Dark Channel's ability to jump from target to target, and lets the Collector still be able to function with long cooldowns. I don't think he is the best character, but he's certainly one of the most interesting to play.

[iOnlySignIn]

This thread is as meaningless as "Best Written Characters" threads in the story forum.

Should have titled it "Your Favorite Characters" instead.

[Maurader Sackboy]

Fortack wrote...  All kits that don't get a lot better when working in tandem with their teammates are poorly designed by definition as far as co op games are concerned.

PUG matches are just so random and only a tiny minority coordinate with friends to pick characters that work well together.  My best experiences have been when I've gotten random team synergy (I especially enjoy all biotic teams with players that know what they are doing).  The majority of the time, though, to me the best designed are the ones that can kill the most in the shortest amount of time.

[the slynx]

Hands down, Turian Sentinel. I've written at length about it before.

Agree with a bunch of the other common ones: Justicar, Human Soldier, Batarian Soldier, Human Engineer, Human Adept. I like the Krogan Shaman here, too (Barrier for power bonus, Warp, Shockwave for huge biotic booms; can debuff, crowd control, tank, melee). In theory, the Batarian Sentinel's fun, but I generally do poorly with this kit, and I don't think it's considered very powerful.

What would people choose for worst designed?

I'd have to go with Marksman characters (the skill just doesn't play well with other skills, and comes close to breaking a number of weapons, which is a pain for balancing) and most of the newer infiltrators. Something like the AIU, which is durable, has a great debuff and crowd control power as well as huge burst damage just feels like it's in the wrong game.

[VaultingFrog]

OP seriously? You dont think the TGI's powers work well together? Seriously?

TC then hit them with Overload (neural shock and chain upgrades) then blast away with your AR. Pop a stim for extra damage after your 2 second grace period of TC is gone and you melt everything.



Also some of the best classes I have used are your basic humans. They are simple, powers are well rounded (even more so with the buffs some of them got a while ago) and have alright shields and health to start with.

[cronshaw]

I think the Turian sentinel is really versatile
The human engineer has really good skill synergy
And even though combat drone isn't great across factions it is still useful
People complain about lash, but I think it works well on the slasher.
Lash and warp mooks or warp clusters for spawns and bosses

Going by your criteria of all three skills working together I'd say maybe the Valkyrie
Tech armor helps you tank so you can get up close to use AF & warp
Her dodge is also great and synergizes well with CQC

[Wadmaasi]

I think the Slasher counts, and I don't think I saw it mentioned. Lately I've been having an incredibly fun and effective time with him; in fact, I hate that I love a Batarian (*ptooey!*) kit so much. You have two cooldown primers, a cooldown-less detonator, good passives, good fitness, a great debuff, spawn-nuking, minor crowd control, awesome stagger, the whole works. Put a Wraith + Warp Rounds in his hands and you can tear it up with both your weapons and your powers.

...aaaand it was mentioned in between me opening the thread and then getting around to reading/replying.

Modifié par Wadmaasi, 14 mai 2013 - 02:46 .

[Chealec]

Fortack wrote...

...

IMO it's quite silly that biotic characters usually don't like having someone with Overload on their team b/c, instead of assisting them to handle shield (the supposedly major weakness of biotics), it only messes up their explosions thus reducing their combat effectiveness.

Depends - a Biotic kit with Throw should be happy for those Overloads - just double up on using Throw and you'll get both a Tech Burst and a Biotic Explosion... and Throw has a really, really low cooldown time.

[rcolol]

Turian Sentinel, Salarian Infiltrator, Asari Huntress.

[MasterPeras]

The Fury
QE (the lady)
HA
GI
GT
....

[Tokenusername]

Designed for what? With no frame of reference no one will agree on anything because all their criteria with differ.

[viper_veteran]

Tokenusername wrote...

Designed for what? With no frame of reference no one will agree on anything because all their criteria with differ.

It's in the OP... the synergy of all three powers

[Tybo]

d_nought wrote...

Caldari Ghost wrote...

d_nought wrote...

tyhw wrote...

BatSol...inferno skill ftw.  Blindly chuck in the direction of the spawn, watch as everything burns to death.  But I do like his power set, and find him fun to play.

I did have the GE listed in my honorable mention in my head, but I think I forgot to type it in.  Don't have a lot of experience with the Cabal though, I didn't find it all that enjoyable, so I didn't put it in.

Cabal really goes well with an ultra aggressive power usage mook nuker, like the Slayer or Fury, with the same deal of bosses dying slowly. Unfortunately, I don't think the overall power is as much as the Slayer or Fury, but I've really been trying to figure it out.

One thing I've been meaning to ask you is about Incendiary Ammo proc. Fire Explosion cooldowns. Sirian told me that apparently you can only detonate one FE on a target from Inc. Ammo, which seems odd. If it's true though, I might switch to Disruptor with Double Dash to quickly pull off three Tech Bursts and get an edge over an FE.

haven't you ever shot at a target with a large-clip weapon on incendiary, spamming  a detonator and only getting one FE?

I never really noticed it, nor bothered to look it up. But here it is in detail, in case anyone else wants to know:

i) Triggering an FE with ammo means you can't trigger another one until all of the incendiary DoT is finished, which is 3 seconds after the last shot. FE -> wait less than 3 seconds -> shoot -> "detonate" = no explosion.

ii) Waiting it out for another explosion means that all future inc. ammo DoT ticks will be zero.

That is partly right.  

i) is completely correct

ii) if you wait it out for the wrong duration, you will get bugged 0 Inc. Ammo DoT ticks.  It works like this:
After a fire explosion, there is a bugged 4 second DoT tick with 0 damage.  If there is an active DoT available (IR, Flamer, Incinerate, Warp, IG), and you shoot it, your IR will stack with this DoT.  However, if this DoT runs out, and the 4 second FE DoT is still active, then your next shot will cause 0 ammo damage.  This will continue until you let that corrupted IR stack die (eg wait 3 seconds).

You can wait out the 4 second bugged DoT, letting all DoT expire.  This will then count as a "fresh" target, able to be FE's again.  The rule is 1 FE per incendiary stack.  

It's a pretty tricky bug to explain, lemme know if something is unclear.

[ISHYGDDT]

Just chiming in to say I mostly agree with OP's listing, although I'd move Geth Trooper up to top tier.

[FlowCytometry]

HolyAvenger wrote...

 

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Depends on how you define "terribly designed". IMO a bad design is a kit with a power that obviously should be skipped. Of course not everybody will agree that power SHOULD be ditched but when a majority of people find it useless, then something went wrong.
 

 

Of course a lack of synergy, or a power that is obvious ot skip is terrible design

So is a kit with so much synergy between it's powers it dwarfs and leaves it's counterparts in the dust. 

I like to think of power (or in-game effectiveness relative to other kits) as its own measure that is just one factor into design. The GI is an example of a well designed kit that is also powerful- it being too powerful is more subjective and a lesser dent in its design since that call is dependant on many factors outside of the kit itself. GI was designed to be balanced by being the game's pinnacle glass cannon; TC cheese and the game's gating mechanics largely derailed that counterbalance- but that's not such a fault w/ the kit itself. At least the GI has a reasonable and notable counterbalance if the kit is put in isolation (ex. soloing w/ the GI is quite harder than in teamplay cause you lack the aggro distractions). This is unlike the TGI and AUI- both powerful kits that aren't well designed because they don't have enough counter-measures to balance them out properly.

Power has to be considered relatively, whereas in-class synergy and coherence to form a distinct playstyle (or styles) doesn't depend as much on how good or bad the other kits are. I think most people are referring to the latter when talking about 'good design', but really power level should be considered too.

Like, the TSol is powerful, comparatively, and has his own theme of being a burst fire weapons expert, but is very flawed in design (redundant cc powers that dun really compliment eachother, no bonus power and a long duration on MM locks out the other two). Despite his power and distinct theme, most people here wouldn't call him one of the better designed kits.

Ofc, this would mean a kit like the GE is better designed than the GI, but only in practice. 'In theory' the GI has basic balance principles going for it; they aren't as borne out in play.

Modifié par FlowCytometry, 15 mai 2013 - 03:51 .

[SpaceV3gan]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

This thread is as meaningless as "Best Written Characters" threads in the story forum.

Should have titled it "Your Favorite Characters" instead.

Agreed.

[Tybo]

SpaceV3gan wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

This thread is as meaningless as "Best Written Characters" threads in the story forum.

Should have titled it "Your Favorite Characters" instead.

Agreed.

This has very little to do with my favorite characters.  I don't much care for using the fury.  Not a huge fan of the vorcha sent, Tsen, Paladin,  Havoc, GE, or collector adept.  My favorite classes are the slayer and the novaguard.  QFI, batsol, GI, Asari Vanguard and destroyer probably coming next.

It is simply a list of characters that I feel Bioware did a good job of designing wih a purpose, as opposed to a random mish mash of powers.  If you disagree, feel free to leave reasons as to why, or what you consider to be classes with cohesive power sets.

[Tybo]

FlowCytometry wrote...

HolyAvenger wrote...

 

UnknownMercenary wrote...

Depends on how you define "terribly designed". IMO a bad design is a kit with a power that obviously should be skipped. Of course not everybody will agree that power SHOULD be ditched but when a majority of people find it useless, then something went wrong.
 

 

Of course a lack of synergy, or a power that is obvious ot skip is terrible design

So is a kit with so much synergy between it's powers it dwarfs and leaves it's counterparts in the dust. 

I like to think of power (or in-game effectiveness relative to other kits) as its own measure that is just one factor into design. The GI is an example of a well designed kit that is also powerful- it being too powerful is more subjective and a lesser dent in its design since that call is dependant on many factors outside of the kit itself. GI was designed to be balanced by being the game's pinnacle glass cannon; TC cheese and the game's gating mechanics largely derailed that counterbalance- but that's not such a fault w/ the kit itself. At least the GI has a reasonable and notable counterbalance if the kit is put in isolation (ex. soloing w/ the GI is quite harder than in teamplay cause you lack the aggro distractions). This is unlike the TGI and AUI- both powerful kits that aren't well designed because they don't have enough counter-measures to balance them out properly.

Power has to be considered relatively, whereas in-class synergy and coherence to form a distinct playstyle (or styles) doesn't depend as much on how good or bad the other kits are. I think most people are referring to the latter when talking about 'good design', but really power level should be considered too.

Like, the TSol is powerful, comparatively, and has his own theme of being a burst fire weapons expert, but is very flawed in design (redundant cc powers that dun really compliment eachother, no bonus power and a long duration on MM locks out the other two). Despite his power and distinct theme, most people here wouldn't call him one of the better designed kits.

Ofc, this would mean a kit like the GE is better designed than the GI, but only in practice. 'In theory' the GI has basic balance principles going for it; they aren't as borne out in play.

Good post, this is pretty much exactly what I was getting at with this topic.