192 réponses à ce sujet

[Moirin]

Hardened Alistair. I don't trust Anora.

[Twisted Path]

Hardened Alistair with his mistress/buddy the Warden advising him is the best ruler. Anora is basically a Cersi Lannister knock-off and a very untrustworthy character.

Incidentally I think the best way to go is to harden Alistair and nevert harden Leiliana. The "hardening" mission with Alistair basically involves you telling him that people are all selfish and mean and that you should be careful when you deal with them. It's good advice for a future king.

Hardening Leiliana involves telling her that it's okay to feel good about killing people...which is kind of messed up. "Yeah, it's fun to be a psychopath like me. Take joy in murdering people." Great advice Grey Warden.

[Terraforming2154]

Blackrising wrote...

I'm guessing everyone has a different opinion on that subject.

Personally, I put Anora on the throne as the 'brain', so to speak, with my Warden beside her to keep her on the ground.

Essentially the same and for similar reasons, except replace the warden with Alistair.

I feel that they are both somewhat lopsided personality-wise when they are seperate (Anora being calculating and shrewd  and Alistair being naive and idealistic), but I like to think they would probably work together quite well.

Modifié par Terraforming2154, 16 mai 2013 - 06:46 .

[IanPolaris]

esper wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

esper wrote...

MisanthropePrime wrote...

Am I the only one who was a little miffed that, upon finding out that the Amell family were Kirkwall nobles, I couldn't at least attempt to put my human mage warden on the throne?

Your Amell is a mage. That is auto disqualification.

I'm not sure how stringent that is, considering a mage Hawke can be made Viscount of Kirkwall.

That is because mage-Hawke have the templars approval and is basically their puppet to run Kirkwall through. The vicount seat doesn't mean much in Kirkwall without the Templars.

I believe DG is on record as saying the Mage-Hawke Viscount of Kirkwall was a mistake. It should not have been allowed.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 16 mai 2013 - 06:23 .

[HurricaneGinger]

Anora knows the ins and outs and would do anything to protect Ferelden. She's the strongest candidate and a logical choice if you want Ferelden to remain firm. However, she's a snake in the grass. She knows what to do to gain support, invoke sympathy and loyalty. I can imagine her doing something just as horrible as her father did at Ostagar.

I always pair her with hardened Alistair since he's tied to his honor to a fault. He will keep Anora in check, and won't let her do anything too dishonest. Plus, the nobility prefer tradition and since Alistair is the former king's son, that will appease them as well as give him a stronger voice than Anora who is a commoner.

And Anora will no doubt teach Alistair there is no black and white in politics, and the right decisions are usually the hardest. She might even teach him not to bow to every demand a noble may have, or be their puppet. I'm not entirely sure.

They balance each other out, so they are my preferred solution.

[KiwiQuiche]

A hardened Alistair and a Warden Queen. The Queen has the noble upbringing and experience in these such politics, while Alistair keeps the public and civilians best interests at the fore, and not the pride of the nobles.

And if anyone tries to start sh!t on Fereldan soil or harm Alistair, the Queen will drown them in a sea of their own blood, so I would say Fereldan is in good hands.

[IanPolaris]

My personal take is unless I am playing a Warden who is completely out for personal gain, and is willing to "do what it takes" to get it (i.e. a real bastard), then I don't want Anora anywhere near the Fereldan throne.

She is too quick to betray people for her own short term gain, and too glib about denying it. While some of that is needed to be a strong ruler, it shouldn't be the preferred methode. Futhermore, I don't think Anora has any scruples other than what's good for her and sinerely believes what's good for her is automatically good for Fereldan. Finally she isn't smart enough or cunning enough to hide it (and it's ridiculously easy to catch her in a lie).

Let's face it, that entire scene in Howe's castle was a set-up in order to either capture the Warden or (failing that) get in good with the warden, and play both sides. There was no way that Ser Cauthrien's men could have been there as fast as they were unless Anora set the Warden up from the start. That is reason enough to keep her off the throne IMO.

-Polaris

[KiwiQuiche]

IanPolaris wrote...

My personal take is unless I am playing a Warden who is completely out for personal gain, and is willing to "do what it takes" to get it (i.e. a real bastard), then I don't want Anora anywhere near the Fereldan throne.

She is too quick to betray people for her own short term gain, and too glib about denying it. While some of that is needed to be a strong ruler, it shouldn't be the preferred methode. Futhermore, I don't think Anora has any scruples other than what's good for her and sinerely believes what's good for her is automatically good for Fereldan. Finally she isn't smart enough or cunning enough to hide it (and it's ridiculously easy to catch her in a lie).

Let's face it, that entire scene in Howe's castle was a set-up in order to either capture the Warden or (failing that) get in good with the warden, and play both sides. There was no way that Ser Cauthrien's men could have been there as fast as they were unless Anora set the Warden up from the start. That is reason enough to keep her off the throne IMO.

-Polaris

Agreed; Anora is too much of a viper and a poor ruler. She couldn't even stand up to her father when he was obviously just using her as a figure-head. We don't want some weak person like that on the throne.

But being able to call her a b!tch during/afterwards Howe's castle is hilarious though; especially if you managed to kill Ser Cauthrien and the guards.

[Mercedes-Benz]

The Warden and Anora.

[IanPolaris]

Mercedes-Benz wrote...

The Warden and Anora.

If you're Warden is the ruthless sort, then I agree.  It's good to be the king.  That said, if I were married to Anora in such an arrangement, I'd always sleep with one eye open, and I'd never, ever trust her (and I'd never eat or drink anything that someone else hasn't already tried).

-Polaris

[Knight of Dane]

IanPolaris wrote...

My personal take is unless I am playing a Warden who is completely out for personal gain, and is willing to "do what it takes" to get it (i.e. a real bastard), then I don't want Anora anywhere near the Fereldan throne.

She is too quick to betray people for her own short term gain, and too glib about denying it. While some of that is needed to be a strong ruler, it shouldn't be the preferred methode. Futhermore, I don't think Anora has any scruples other than what's good for her and sinerely believes what's good for her is automatically good for Fereldan. Finally she isn't smart enough or cunning enough to hide it (and it's ridiculously easy to catch her in a lie).

Let's face it, that entire scene in Howe's castle was a set-up in order to either capture the Warden or (failing that) get in good with the warden, and play both sides. There was no way that Ser Cauthrien's men could have been there as fast as they were unless Anora set the Warden up from the start. That is reason enough to keep her off the throne IMO.

-Polaris

If Ser Cauthrien showing up was a piece of her grand plan why does she still go to Eamon and tell him what happened if Cauthrien succeeds and captures Warden/Alistair?

[IanPolaris]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

But being able to call her a b!tch during/afterwards Howe's castle is hilarious though; especially if you managed to kill Ser Cauthrien and the guards.

In the same vein if you beat Ser Cauthrien, and get back to Eamon's estate, I just LOVE saying the following to Anora when she says she prayed for my safety and was worried about me:

That's so sweet your highness.  It almost makes me want to kill you less.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Knight of Dane wrote...

If Ser Cauthrien showing up was a piece of her grand plan why does she still go to Eamon and tell him what happened if Cauthrien succeeds and captures Warden/Alistair?

Easy.  She is playing two ends against the middle.  She is making sure that she gets on the throne even if Eamon's Landsmeet suceeds at removing her father from the Regency.  Eamon himself will tell you that she isn't to be trusted.

-Polaris

Edit PS:  The major plothole in this entire scene (and it has nothing to do with Anora) is that Loghain as Regent of Fereldan had the right of High Justice and had already tried to kill the Warden and Alistair both many times (just ask Zevran).  If you do lose at Howe's estate, there is no reason why Loghain would let either of you live and certainly not if both you and Alistair were both captured.  In fact realistically the game should prohibit you from taking Alistair on this mission since Eamon himself says it could easily be a trap (and it is).

Modifié par IanPolaris, 16 mai 2013 - 09:49 .

[Knight of Dane]

IanPolaris wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

If Ser Cauthrien showing up was a piece of her grand plan why does she still go to Eamon and tell him what happened if Cauthrien succeeds and captures Warden/Alistair?

Easy.  She is playing two ends against the middle.  She is making sure that she gets on the throne even if Eamon's Landsmeet suceeds at removing her father from the Regency.  Eamon himself will tell you that she isn't to be trusted.

-Polaris

Yes of course that could be a intention, but if her ultimate scheme was to either capture/kill the warden or get in good with them why would she return in case the first option succeeds?

[Knight of Dane]

IanPolaris wrote...

Edit PS:  The major plothole in this entire scene (and it has nothing to do with Anora) is that Loghain as Regent of Fereldan had the right of High Justice and had already tried to kill the Warden and Alistair both many times (just ask Zevran).  If you do lose at Howe's estate, there is no reason why Loghain would let either of you live and certainly not if both you and Alistair were both captured.  In fact realistically the game should prohibit you from taking Alistair on this mission since Eamon himself says it could easily be a trap (and it is).

But it still does, there is too many variables; Anora is far from the mastermind as you claim.

[IanPolaris]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Yes of course that could be a intention, but if her ultimate scheme was to either capture/kill the warden or get in good with them why would she return in case the first option succeeds?

Assuming only the Warden is captured, she'd want to get in good with Eamon in the unlikely event that he should succeed anyway.  You will notice she plays no role in the actual rescue.  To be honest, the entire rescue-plot doesn't work for the simple reason (whatever you think of Anora), Loghain has no reason not to order the Warden (and Alistair) executed on sight.

The big part here is that when you eliminate all the other possible in-game explainations, there is only one reasonable explaination for Ser Cautherian's amazing timing:  Anora sold you out.  We've been through this years ago, and every other alternative was examined carefully.

It's clear that Anora rats you out.  Futhermore, if you say "This sounds like a trap", Anora will promise her unconditional support against her father there and then....and she will forget about it later.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Knight of Dane wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Edit PS:  The major plothole in this entire scene (and it has nothing to do with Anora) is that Loghain as Regent of Fereldan had the right of High Justice and had already tried to kill the Warden and Alistair both many times (just ask Zevran).  If you do lose at Howe's estate, there is no reason why Loghain would let either of you live and certainly not if both you and Alistair were both captured.  In fact realistically the game should prohibit you from taking Alistair on this mission since Eamon himself says it could easily be a trap (and it is).

But it still does, there is too many variables; Anora is far from the mastermind as you claim.

Don't put words in my mouth. Anora is no mastermind.  In fact tactically she's a little dim really.  However, it doesn't take a mastermind to have your maid (who is probably an Orlesian Bard) run out and notify Ser Cauthrien just as soon as the warding on the door drops.  Notice that Ser Cauthrien tries to charge you with the MURDER of Arl Howe and his men-at-arms.  No way she could know you actually killed him unless someone told her...and the only one that could tell her is Anora.

-Polaris

[Knight of Dane]

It's much more fluid than you think. If she wanted the Warden and Alistair out of the picture and indeed was in no danger from Cauthrien, why did she burst into Eamons manor telling him of the warden, as the very first thing, when she could just have waited till the Warden/Al was dead and then show up and play damsel in distress?

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 16 mai 2013 - 10:15 .

[Persephone]

Anora married to a hardened Alistair.

[IanPolaris]

Knight of Dane wrote...

It's much more fluid than you think. If she wanted the Warden and Alistair out of the picture and indeed was in no danger from Cauthrien why did she burst into Eamons manor telling him of the warden as the very first thing when she could just have waited till the Warden/Al was dead and THEN show up and play dmsel in distress?

It's not.  We've been through this (scores of pages) in the DAO forums years ago.  There is no possible way for Ser Cauthrien to have been where she was, when she was, with the information that she had unless Anora sold her out.

Period.  End. Of. Discussion

As for why she'd go to Eamon's estate, it's the only way she'd be able to influence both sides.  Whether she thought this through or not, whether it was smart or not, doesn't alter the fact that Anora did in fact betray the Warden in Howe's castle.

-Polaris

[Knight of Dane]

Why not? No matter what the warden does initially a guard still dies when Riordan escapes. It's not really unbeleivable that a patrol unit found him and alerted Cauthrien.

[IanPolaris]

Knight of Dane wrote...

It's much more fluid than you think. If she wanted the Warden and Alistair out of the picture and indeed was in no danger from Cauthrien, why did she burst into Eamons manor telling him of the warden, as the very first thing, when she could just have waited till the Warden/Al was dead and then show up and play damsel in distress?

Another possibility that just occured to me is that Anora might have expected Ser Cauthrian to kill the Warden/Al outright (and it would be a very reasonable expectation...and frankly not doing so is something of a plothole that has nothing to do with Anora per se).  When she didn't, Anora sensed an opportunity to 'get in" with Arl Eamon.

-Polaris

[Herr Uhl]

Celene.

[Knight of Dane]

IanPolaris wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

It's much more fluid than you think. If she wanted the Warden and Alistair out of the picture and indeed was in no danger from Cauthrien why did she burst into Eamons manor telling him of the warden as the very first thing when she could just have waited till the Warden/Al was dead and THEN show up and play dmsel in distress?

It's not.  We've been through this (scores of pages) in the DAO forums years ago.  There is no possible way for Ser Cauthrien to have been where she was, when she was, with the information that she had unless Anora sold her out.

Period.  End. Of. Discussion

As for why she'd go to Eamon's estate, it's the only way she'd be able to influence both sides.  Whether she thought this through or not, whether it was smart or not, doesn't alter the fact that Anora did in fact betray the Warden in Howe's castle.

-Polaris

That she may have betrayed the warden.

In most of my saves by warden either just outright kills Cauthrien or gives himself in, no betrayal there.