790 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Thankfully, Shepard is not canonically petty and stupid enough to hate people for bringing him or her back to life.

If that violates your little 'headcanon,' that's unfortunate.

I probably should mention that Shepard can actually be rather rude to Liara on Illium once s/he learns that Liara gave his or her body to Cerberus.

Modifié par David7204, 17 mai 2013 - 11:26 .

[themikefest]

I thought it was Cerberus that brought Shepard back to life.

[David7204]

It was Liara that recovered Shepard's body from the Shadow Broker and gave it to Cerberus.

[themikefest]

Remember without Feron's help, T'Soni would never of recovered Sheaprd's body

[David7204]

Uh, yeah. So?

[themikefest]

Don't give all the credit to Liara alone. Some of it goes to Feron. No one seems to mention that.

[Steelcan]

What special talents does it take to retrieve a corpse?

[David7204]

Liara infiltrated the Shadow Broker's base to steal it back.

So quite a bit of talent.

Modifié par David7204, 17 mai 2013 - 11:39 .

[AlexMBrennan]

You have to buy the Redemption comic for that story.

[Exile Isan]

David7204 wrote...

Liara infiltrated the Shadow Broker's base to steal it back.

So quite a bit of talent.

And by her own tongue admits that she "screwed it up" and would have failed if it hadn't been for Feron.

[spirosz]

Thread is alive and well.

[MegaSovereign]

You guys are ignoring David's core argument. Liara put in an honest effort to save Shepard's life. That warrants, at the very least, a free pass from empty bitterness.

[Ryzaki]

David7204 wrote...

Thankfully, Shepard is not canonically petty and stupid enough to hate people for bringing him or her back to life.

If that violates your little 'headcanon,' that's unfortunate.

I probably should mention that Shepard can actually be rather rude to Liara on Illium once s/he learns that Liara gave his or her body to Cerberus.

Yeah it's stupid to dislike someone for handing your corpse over to a terrorist organization and be unsure if you still even count as human. (really the fact that this is mostly swept under the rug is laughable then again the whole project Lazarus is laughable so I shouldn't be surprised). That's so petty and stupid yo.

Said terrorist organization who's leader of the project wanted to put a control chip in his/her head and only got Veto'd by TIM (bet he's wishing he'd listened to Miranda by ME3).

Yep.

Sadly I dealt with it. Endings violate my HC far more. Ah well I pretty much acknowledged that BW canon Shep was the only Shep once I got slapped in the face with all that autodialogue. ME2 let me be somewhat in denial but ME3 blasted that out of me. Ah well.

That little tiff wasn't rude. Not even remotely.

What's funny and sad is people expect everyone to give Liara a free pass because TIM didn't do anything remotely questionable with Shep's corpse. Even the clone was just there for spare parts. I wonder how much "well Liara brought you back to life so clearly she deserves favorable treatement!" there would be if yeah TIM had done something questionable to Shep. And no she had no way of knowing what TIM would do with the corpse other than attempt to revive him.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 12:07 .

[spirosz]

Well, Mega, a common argument (regardless of how valid it is) is that Liara was written in that position, where others could of easily been as well - which ties in with the whole writer's pet, which every Bioware game had. Too be honest, I've gotten over "too much Liara" in the game, well maybe because I haven't touched the game since March, but regardless, I still cringe at my Shepard getting angry at Joker's joke, but otherwise, I take what I find important in the game and focus on that...

#Jack.

[MegaSovereign]

spirosz wrote...

Well, Mega, a common argument (regardless of how valid it is) is that Liara was written in that position, where others could of easily been as well - which ties in with the whole writer's pet, which every Bioware game had. Too be honest, I've gotten over "too much Liara" in the game, well maybe because I haven't touched the game since March, but regardless, I still cringe at my Shepard getting angry at Joker's joke, but otherwise, I take what I find important in the game and focus on that...

#Jack.

Well. Ashley, Kaidan, and Wrex could have been dead depending on the playthrough. Tali giving Shepard's body to Cerberus isn't very believable since the Quarians apparently don't like Cerberus. Liara, who has no ties to government positions and who can't die in ME1 seems like the only viable candidate for that role.

[Steelcan]

MegaSovereign wrote...

You guys are ignoring David's core argument. Liara put in an honest effort to save Shepard's life. That warrants, at the very least, a free pass from empty bitterness.

. Miranda brings Shepard back to life yet people condemn her routinely.

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

You guys are ignoring David's core argument. Liara put in an honest effort to save Shepard's life. That warrants, at the very least, a free pass from empty bitterness.

. Miranda brings Shepard back to life yet people condemn her routinely.

This.

Also TIM made a sizeable investement to bring Shep back to life. I don't see many people saying TIM should be respected or Shep should be grateful to him for that.

[David7204]

If you dislike Liara, that's fine. You're not obligated to like every character in every story.

What's less fine is making accusations of 'bad writing,' 'writer's pet,' 'plot armor,' and other nonsense. The writers are doing absolutely nothing wrong by giving a character a good amount of content and having Shepard be polite to her.

The insuination that in a better written game, Shepard would have the opportunity to be rude and nasty to everyone is just ridiculous.

Modifié par David7204, 18 mai 2013 - 12:12 .

[MegaSovereign]

Steelcan wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

You guys are ignoring David's core argument. Liara put in an honest effort to save Shepard's life. That warrants, at the very least, a free pass from empty bitterness.

. Miranda brings Shepard back to life yet people condemn her routinely.

Well those people are moronic.

[MegaSovereign]

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

You guys are ignoring David's core argument. Liara put in an honest effort to save Shepard's life. That warrants, at the very least, a free pass from empty bitterness.

. Miranda brings Shepard back to life yet people condemn her routinely.

This.

Also TIM made a sizeable investement to bring Shep back to life. I don't see many people saying TIM should be respected or Shep should be grateful to him for that.

Ahem

[Ryzaki]

David7204 wrote...

If you dislike Liara, that's fine. You're not obligated to like every character in every story.

What's less fine is making accusations of 'bad writing,' 'writer's pet,' 'plot armor,' and other nonsense. The writers are doing absolutely nothing wrong by giving a character a good amount of content and having Shepard be polite to her.

Then what pray tell was that whole "good thing your Shep isn't stupid to dislike someone who handed his corpse over to a terrorist organization" bit was about?

They kind of are when they have Shep be optionally non polite to other characters. It reeks of favortism. Shep can be a rude douchemobile to everyone (save Garrus who has douche shep shield from the beginning of the series.) but when it comes to Liara's turn it's off the table. Harshest Shep can be to Liara is agreeing when someone else is (Javik god I love you Javik).

Though yeah she is writer's pet. So is Garrus (one of my fav characters).

The insuination that in a better written game, Shepard would have the
opportunity to be rude and nasty to everyone is just ridiculous.

Why? 

Why is it so threatening for some liara fans that OMG some player's Shep might be rude and dislike her! How dare they role play differently from me! HOW DARE THEY!

LMAO

And this is why DAO will always beat ME series for me. The Warden could be a douche, AND THIS WAS REACTED TO. No forced friendships. And yeah actually it would probably be better written game because you know variations are nice when you have a PC who's decisions you can mold. (To an extent anyway before anyone busts out the "you can't customize everything! No rly? Never would've guessed that).

Also being rude to Liara =/= being rude to every single character in the series (though that would be nice) nah it's far more likely my Sheps like they currently are would be rude to some characters and polite to others. You know. Because disliking one person doesn't mean you dislike everyone. Weird I know.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 12:19 .

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

If you dislike Liara, that's fine. You're not obligated to like every character in every story.

What's less fine is making accusations of 'bad writing,' 'writer's pet,' 'plot armor,' and other nonsense. The writers are doing absolutely nothing wrong by giving a character a good amount of content and having Shepard be polite to her.

Though David, writer's pet is a valid complaint when a role that was expressed in ME1, takes a wild turn for the sequel.  Do I find her new role in ME2 convincing?  No, but that is just me and how I believe she was going to turn out for ME2 (Even Jack's role in ME3 throws me off to this day, even though she's my favourite character).  It doesn't help that Bioware has stated that Liara basically represents aspects of the series, which is probably related to her popularity and the fact that she can be romanceable by either male or female Shepards.  

Also there is a difference between a good amount of content and the amount of content being good.

[Iakus]

David7204 wrote...

If you dislike Liara, that's fine. You're not obligated to like every character in every story.

What's less fine is making accusations of 'bad writing,' 'writer's pet,' 'plot armor,' and other nonsense. The writers are doing absolutely nothing wrong by giving a character a good amount of content and having Shepard be polite to her.

I don't think poster like Ryzaki are complaining that they are boligated to like Liara.

It's that Shepard is obligated to like her.  Regardless of how they think their Shepard should act.

[Ryzaki]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

You guys are ignoring David's core argument. Liara put in an honest effort to save Shepard's life. That warrants, at the very least, a free pass from empty bitterness.

. Miranda brings Shepard back to life yet people condemn her routinely.

This.

Also TIM made a sizeable investement to bring Shep back to life. I don't see many people saying TIM should be respected or Shep should be grateful to him for that.

Ahem

Okay I'll amend my statement to most.

[David7204]

Shepard's obligated to like every character at least enough to not throw them off the ship, as countless people on the BSN have gleefully advocated for every character.

S/he's obligated to like Anderson, to get along with Hackett, to respect the Alliance.

S/he's obligated to trust EDI, to be on good terms with Chakwas, to work with Cerberus.

S/he's obligated to want to be a Spectre, which implies respect for the Council.

Modifié par David7204, 18 mai 2013 - 12:20 .