790 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Mr.House wrote...
The only  characters that where important to DAo's main plot was Alistair, Loghain and Morrigan. All other companions where just side things or to help explain secondary plots. (and this is comnig from a big fan of Leli, Shale, Sten, Dog and Zev)

And you could be a complete tool to Alistair, Loghain and Morrigan. And the plot did not somehow break because lo and behold they didn't like you personally.

(Also ME3's character have limited importance to their plot since so many of them can be dead and the plot keeps chugging along).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 01:58 .

[Steelcan]

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

hm? aren't you forced to be pretty nasty to him even if you give him the base? Could've sworn that's what happened with my renedouche...

[Ryzaki]

David7204 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't know why people think less rping in a rpg is something good.

Do you grasp the concept that there's a trade-off here? There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Except your trade off is something that simply wasn't in other BW games. (Better for RPing BW games IMO at that).

You seem to think one can't have an ally and not force the main PC to be friendly to them...there are several games where this is not the case.

[Steelcan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

hm? aren't you forced to be pretty nasty to him even if you give him the base? Could've sworn that's what happened with my renedouche...

. Not really mean or anything, you can be an ass about it, but you dint have to be.  it makes ME3 make even less sense since you parted on good terms with Cerberus.

[AresKeith]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

hm? aren't you forced to be pretty nasty to him even if you give him the base? Could've sworn that's what happened with my renedouche...

. Not really mean or anything, you can be an ass about it, but you dint have to be.  it makes ME3 make even less sense since you parted on good terms with Cerberus.

Plot Twist: The clone Shepard was actually your Shepard and Bioware made you kill him

[Ryzaki]

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

hm? aren't you forced to be pretty nasty to him even if you give him the base? Could've sworn that's what happened with my renedouche...

. Not really mean or anything, you can be an ass about it, but you dint have to be.  it makes ME3 make even less sense since you parted on good terms with Cerberus.

Honestly BW canon Shep took over in ME3 for me. Second I saw him saying "We fight or we die." I pretty much went "oh boy." all downhill from there.

Also BW's prerelease you can choose if you're happy to be back with the alliance or not garbage made me mad. It's bad enough they railroad. Did they have to lie about it?

[Mr.House]

AresKeith wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

hm? aren't you forced to be pretty nasty to him even if you give him the base? Could've sworn that's what happened with my renedouche...

. Not really mean or anything, you can be an ass about it, but you dint have to be.  it makes ME3 make even less sense since you parted on good terms with Cerberus.

Plot Twist: The clone Shepard was actually your Shepard and Bioware made you kill him

Makes sense since Shepard in ME2 is so OOC for me.

[Ryzaki]

Mr.House wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

hm? aren't you forced to be pretty nasty to him even if you give him the base? Could've sworn that's what happened with my renedouche...

. Not really mean or anything, you can be an ass about it, but you dint have to be.  it makes ME3 make even less sense since you parted on good terms with Cerberus.

Plot Twist: The clone Shepard was actually your Shepard and Bioware made you kill him

Makes sense since Shepard in ME2 is so OOC for me.

Yeah my sole survivor Shep in ME2 didn't work. Took some tweaking for me to finally get him back IC.

I can't even be bothered to do that for ME3. Too much autodialogue, different Sheps end up having far too similar (if not outright the same) reactions. Just tires me out.

Then of course there's the looming final 10 minutes.

[Steelcan]

@Ryzaki, just dad it to the list of pre-release lies.

[Mr.House]

I have many Shepard's that made it to ME3 and they are all different.

[Mahrac]

AresKeith wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, What do you mean until the CB mission? He was thrilled I saved the base and I was free to run the war.

hm? aren't you forced to be pretty nasty to him even if you give him the base? Could've sworn that's what happened with my renedouche...

. Not really mean or anything, you can be an ass about it, but you dint have to be.  it makes ME3 make even less sense since you parted on good terms with Cerberus.

Plot Twist: The clone Shepard was actually your Shepard and Bioware made you kill him

So the clone was so much like my Shepard that he could fool the Normandy crew, and my Shepard was OOC enough that none of the crew recognised him?

[Ryzaki]

Mr.House wrote...

I have many Shepard's that made it to ME3 and they are all different.

Mine feel far too similar. Ah well. That's what I get for having almost everyone survives the SM saves all the time. Might get more differences if I let more people die.

Steelcan wrote...

@Ryzaki, just dad it to the list of pre-release lies.

I still lol at them straight up deleting that thread. Truth hurts.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 02:18 .

[Hazegurl]

MegaSovereign wrote...

You guys are ignoring David's core argument. Liara put in an honest effort to save Shepard's life. That warrants, at the very least, a free pass from empty bitterness.

I got his argument and since Liara didn't save my Shep I consider it irrelevant and to someone like Ryzaki, who did not want to be saved, it is more of a reason to hate her.

Ryzaki wrote...
I never said otherwise.

Doesn't mean he/she has to like Liara.

The Warden has predefined traits, Hawke has predefined traits.

They're not forced to like any of their companions.

To make it worse Shep doesn't have to like Liara in ME1. He/she is retconned to being friendly to her.

Pretty much this right here. My Shep was nice to Liara in ME1 because I wanted to be, not because the devs decided I should be. That changed and that is the issue. I love DA more than ME because my warden and my Hawke can be whomever he/she wants to be around their companions and the companions can view them differently based on it. You can have a cat fight with Aveline, tell Fenris to shut up with his whining, get into an argument about mages with Anders, deal with a jealous brother, confront Varric on his lies about you, fight with Merrill about her mirror, and deal with Isabella's betrayal. It makes the role play much better and over all I care more for these characters because of it.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't know why people think less rping in a rpg is something good.

Do you grasp the concept that there's a trade-off here? There's no such thing as a free lunch.

Then it's not an RPG anymore. That's what Mass Effect is supposed to be: an RPG.

If you don't like RPG's, go play another game. I'd rather roleplay than make a pretty cinematic scene.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 mai 2013 - 04:05 .

[dreamgazer]

Now I want a free lunch.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

Now I want a free lunch.

I'm thinking David doesn't like RPG's very much. He seems to narrowly focused on one objective characterizations for all Shepard's for the sake of a cinematic and "realistic" experience, and dismissive to the idea of defining a player's own Shepard in game.

[David7204]

You wouldn't get a cinematic scene. You'd get something like Fallout: New Vegas, where you can kill your companions any time you want, but they have absolutely no impact on the plot or on other characters whatsoever. So you can kiss little details like Miranda bringing Shepard back to life goodbye.

Modifié par David7204, 18 mai 2013 - 04:09 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

You wouldn't get a cinematic scene. You'd get something like Fallout: New Vegas, where you can kill your companions any time you want, but they have absolutely no impact on the plot or on other characters whatsoever. So you can kiss little details like Miranda bringing Shepard back to life goodbye.

Have you played KotOR? You can definitely be a real **** to your companions, even kill them later, but they all have importance to the plot and an impact on the game. Except Juhani. You could treat your squadmates however you wanted to treat them, and they all had different opinions and idea's on actions that you could take during the game. 

I don't think anyone is advocating killing characters whenever they want. I'm fine with having to use certain squadmates in my game, but I don't think my character should be objectively inclined to like them or respect them. In prior games, I was able to express whatever I wanted about characters, and still have them have an impact on the game and the story. That's really not the case for ME3, and it really subtracts from the agency of the player in my opinion.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

You wouldn't get a cinematic scene. You'd get something like Fallout: New Vegas, where you can kill your companions any time you want, but they have absolutely no impact on the plot or on other characters whatsoever. So you can kiss little details like Miranda bringing Shepard back to life goodbye.

The companions in New Vegas do impact the (sub-)plot's flow, variation, and context, but not to the degree of Mass Effect, no.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 18 mai 2013 - 04:21 .

[Ryzaki]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

David7204 wrote...

You wouldn't get a cinematic scene. You'd get something like Fallout: New Vegas, where you can kill your companions any time you want, but they have absolutely no impact on the plot or on other characters whatsoever. So you can kiss little details like Miranda bringing Shepard back to life goodbye.

Have you played KotOR? You can definitely be a real **** to your companions, even kill them later, but they all have importance to the plot and an impact on the game. Except Juhani. You could treat your squadmates however you wanted to treat them, and they all had different opinions and idea's on actions that you could take during the game. 

I don't think anyone is advocating killing characters whenever they want. I'm fine with having to use certain squadmates in my game, but I don't think my character should be objectively inclined to like them or respect them. In prior games, I was able to express whatever I wanted about characters, and still have them have an impact on the game and the story. That's really not the case for ME3, and it really subtracts from the agency of the player in my opinion.

The bolded.

Not being BFFs with a character doesn't stop them from having influence on the plot. Just makes your character's relationship with them different. (now this CAN change their influence on the plot in various ways but not necessarily).

It enhances roleplaying.

[David7204]

Let's look at the treatment of Miranda in ME 2. Is that a problem?

Modifié par David7204, 18 mai 2013 - 04:21 .

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

Let's look at the treatment of Miranda in ME 2. Is that a problem?

What are you referring to, exactly?

[Ryzaki]

David7204 wrote...

Let's look at the treatment of Miranda in ME 2. Is that a problem?

Nope. Shep's never forced to like Miranda. He works with her but they're not buddy buddy. (Indeed Miranda's very brisk and professional and Shep has to reach out the friendship hand).

(only issue I had with Miranda was that stupid ass ass shot.)

In ME3 Shep can be distrustful of Miranda, refuse to hand data over to her, refuse to see her (this results in her death). She is plot relevant (To sanctuary) and no Shep's not forced to be friends.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 04:26 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Let's look at the treatment of Miranda in ME 2. Is that a problem?

What treatment are you talking about?