790 réponses à ce sujet

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I think one of the things with Liara is that Asari don't have this male-female concept engrained in them. Liara also kind of sees herself as "one of the 'guys'." You know like no different than Joker or Ashley.

Mac could have written Shepard to have a line to request that she "respect his/her privacy and at least ring or buzz him on the intercom instead of barging in." But that's Super Mac's fault. He forces things on you.

If she's your LI, you don't mind it, but if she's not, it's bad. Worth a death sentence? Is it a capital offense? Only if you're a psychotic. Bad manners, yes. But like I said, Mac gave you no way of addressing it.

If you kill off Liara on the beam run there should be no scene other than critical mission failure in the refuse ending. The next cycle doesn't get the time capsules with the complete information. The cycles continue.

[AresKeith]

@MassivelyEffective guess they are like they, but those situations can also keep them alive minus the Virmire choice

Your scenario would automatically force players to pick squadmates they dislike the most

[dreamgazer]

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

[Ymladdych]

Hazegurl wrote...

I agree, why not kill off another squad mate? They all knew the risks going in with Shepard. Every squad mate death is a chance to kill off someone you don't like. I see nothing wrong with that.

The problem is that every time you have one of those scenarios, you end up with a Schrodinger's Character, and the devs can't do much with those after the point of their potential deaths. (Unless they retcon, and we know how players looooove retcons!)

While it seems like a great thing to eliminate a hated NPC, it sucks when it's your favorite character(s) getting a 2 minute cameo because of it. For this reason, I'd much rather have narratively appropriate roleplay options (avoidance, rudeness, or at least neutrality) for disliked mandatory characters, than a death scenario.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

themikefest wrote...

Shepard! What have you done?!

AresKeith wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Bizinha wrote...

13 pages without pictures?



Sabotaging the other romances since 2183

Great pic. Almost as good as this one.

But not as good as this.

Han's pic win

That's cheating.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Hazegurl wrote...

But if you look at the scenario, you're not itching to off someone. If you're playing MassivelyEffective's scenario for the first time (which is really the only true RPG experience anyway). You're bringing along two people who you most likely trust more than anything. In My case I wouldn't even bring Liara on my first play though but Garrus and Kaidan, two squad members I don't want to die. An unfortunate event happens where you are forced to choose right then and there and you lose a lover or friend or both by not reacting on time. I don't see how it could ruin anything. In my next playthough, I would bring Liara or Vega and kill them off, by then you're metagaming anyway.

Really, that's how it was for me on the first playthrough of ME.

Had I known that my squadmates would die, I'd have taken Liara and Tali.

Instead, James and Kaidan both died.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

[Mr.House]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

And that's the problem. You create a part where players will metagame on purpose so their fave characters don't die, hell I bet you if say people brought Liara and Garrus with them(andt hey loved both characters) andt his happen, they would reload so fast it would not be funny.

Virmrie was alot diffrent then what you are saying. It's not as simple as a character dying.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

My first play through, Liara was my LI. I took James and Javik on the beam run. I didn't want her up on the front line. She was helping out in the hospital. ... Original Ending.

MassivelyEffective0730 you must have had some pretty low EMS, that's all I've got to say. What did you do? sabotage the genophage with Wrex? rewrite the Heretics and side with the Quarians; or destroy the Heretics and side with the Geth? Save the Rachni "Breeder"?

[AresKeith]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

I actually understand your scenario, but this is like the SM where some players killed off crewmembers on purpose

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

And that's the problem. You create a part where players will metagame on purpose so their fave characters don't die, hell I bet you if say people brought Liara and Garrus with them(andt hey loved both characters) andt his happen, they would reload so fast it would not be funny.

Virmrie was alot diffrent then what you are saying. It's not as simple as a character dying.

I guess I just don't understand the issue of having the player control who lives and dies.

I don't like Liara. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing her die. Why do I have to damn the galaxy to get her to die in the endgame?

It's a player issue, not Shepard's. He doesn't know that one (or both) is about to die. He does what he can to save them, it just happens faster than he can react too.

I also don't see how Virmire is different, minus the fact it takes place in the middle of the story. This takes place at the end, so characterization really isn't a huge issue anymore.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AresKeith wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

I actually understand your scenario, but this is like the SM where some players killed off crewmembers on purpose

And I have no problem with that. It's their game, let them do whatever the hell they want to do with their Shepard.

[dreamgazer]

See, I'm somewhat alright with that.

If the game thinks you've interacted with and appreciate those who are standing by your side in the final push (regardless of how you really feel about them), then that scenario is ... acceptable. If the game thinks you've brought a non-loyal, unliked support team, then they're not as diligent to save Shep's life and s/he dies after the Reapers are defeated---and they can't return for the reunion/celebration/happy-ever-after.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

My first play through, Liara was my LI. I took James and Javik on the beam run. I didn't want her up on the front line. She was helping out in the hospital. ... Original Ending.

MassivelyEffective0730 you must have had some pretty low EMS, that's all I've got to say. What did you do? sabotage the genophage with Wrex? rewrite the Heretics and side with the Quarians; or destroy the Heretics and side with the Geth? Save the Rachni "Breeder"?

No, I just didn't play MP. This was a year ago with the OE. I had a cumulative 6000 Total military Strength.

I guess I qualified as mid-level EMS. I choose synthesis for the first and only time.

[Mr.House]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

And that's the problem. You create a part where players will metagame on purpose so their fave characters don't die, hell I bet you if say people brought Liara and Garrus with them(andt hey loved both characters) andt his happen, they would reload so fast it would not be funny.

Virmrie was alot diffrent then what you are saying. It's not as simple as a character dying.

I guess I just don't understand the issue of having the player control who lives and dies.

I don't like Liara. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing her die. Why do I have to damn the galaxy to get her to die in the endgame?

It's a player issue, not Shepard's. He doesn't know that one (or both) is about to die. He does what he can to save them, it just happens faster than he can react too.

I also don't see how Virmire is different, minus the fact it takes place in the middle of the story. This takes place at the end, so characterization really isn't a huge issue anymore.

The diffrence is you can not metagame Virmire and you will not reload because your waifu/friend died. This is the case with your suggestion, character deaths should always depend on choices and prep(and not force players to metagame and reload), had PE been done right, what you are suggesting would be uselss.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

dreamgazer wrote...

See, I'm somewhat alright with that.

If the game thinks you've interacted with and appreciate those who are standing by your side in the final push (regardless of how you really feel about them), then that scenario is ... acceptable. If the game thinks you've brought a non-loyal, unliked support team, then they're not as diligent to save Shep's life and s/he dies after the Reapers are defeated---and they can't return for the reunion/celebration/happy-ever-after.

How would that work though? That seems kind of contrived to have Shepard die if his team at the beam wasn't loyal. If he makes it to the beam, he's already grievously wounded, and he's on his own for the rest of the game. 

I suppose I shouldn't say I build up a great rapport with all the characters. I'm as negative to Liara, Ashley, and Tali as the game really allows me to be. It counts as talking to them though I suppose.

[themikefest]

@MassivelyEffective0730

Would it be possible with Anderson running behind that he is able to grab the other squadmate while Shepard is helping the other within the timeframe of the prompt?

I thought I ask.

I personally don't mind seeing the squadmates killed during the beam run.

[Jadebaby]

It's because Liara is the character with the most depth, and that's why she's loved by everyone.

[themikefest]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I guess I just don't understand the issue of having the player control who lives and dies.

I don't like Liara. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing her die. Why do I have to damn the galaxy to get her to die in the endgame?

It's a player issue, not Shepard's. He doesn't know that one (or both) is about to die. He does what he can to save them, it just happens faster than he can react too.

I also don't see how Virmire is different, minus the fact it takes place in the middle of the story. This takes place at the end, so characterization really isn't a huge issue anymore.

I agree with this.

[Ymladdych]

dreamgazer wrote...

See, I'm somewhat alright with that.

If the game thinks you've interacted with and appreciate those who are standing by your side in the final push (regardless of how you really feel about them), then that scenario is ... acceptable. If the game thinks you've brought a non-loyal, unliked support team, then they're not as diligent to save Shep's life and s/he dies after the Reapers are defeated---and they can't return for the reunion/celebration/happy-ever-after.

LOL! I actually like that idea a lot....the downsides of your crew not liking you. It's kind of what happened to CloneShep.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

And that's the problem. You create a part where players will metagame on purpose so their fave characters don't die, hell I bet you if say people brought Liara and Garrus with them(andt hey loved both characters) andt his happen, they would reload so fast it would not be funny.

Virmrie was alot diffrent then what you are saying. It's not as simple as a character dying.

I guess I just don't understand the issue of having the player control who lives and dies.

I don't like Liara. I honestly wouldn't mind seeing her die. Why do I have to damn the galaxy to get her to die in the endgame?

It's a player issue, not Shepard's. He doesn't know that one (or both) is about to die. He does what he can to save them, it just happens faster than he can react too.

I also don't see how Virmire is different, minus the fact it takes place in the middle of the story. This takes place at the end, so characterization really isn't a huge issue anymore.

The diffrence is you can not metagame Virmire and you will not reload because your waifu/friend died. This is the case with your suggestion, character deaths should always depend on choices and prep(and not force players to metagame and reload), had PE been done right, what you are suggesting would be uselss.

How can you not meta-game Virmire? I have Ashley's death all planned out ahead. She's going to guard the bomb so that I can put Kaidan with Kirrahe and save the Salarian team as well when I leave her to die.

Choices and Prep are fine. In a perfect game, they'd have mattered in a greatly revamped PE. But when you have Harbinger staring you down and shooting at you, all the prep and choice in the world is somewhat meaningless. It's a P/R interrupt to save a character (or let both die) brought on by a Reaper.

Unless you're suggesting that the whole beam run be scrapped. I'd be fine with it, but you'd need something else in return.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

themikefest wrote...

@MassivelyEffective0730

Would it be possible with Anderson running behind that he is able to grab the other squadmate while Shepard is helping the other within the timeframe of the prompt?

I thought I ask.

I personally don't mind seeing the squadmates killed during the beam run.

Sure, if you have a high enough asset rating or whatever, have Anderson grab the squadmate if you like. Problem is, I can't kill Liara anymore without a low EMS. Or Tali. Or Ashley. And I damn the galaxy just like before.

And I, not Shepard, really want to see them die.

It amuses me.

It's just one character that dies people. Surely among the team there's someone who you dislike, or like a little less, or feel who's death would be poignant.

Let EDI burn. She's going to die in destroy anyway.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 mai 2013 - 10:04 .

[Jadebaby]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...
How can you not meta-game Virmire? I have Ashley's death all planned out ahead. She's going to guard the bomb so that I can put Kaidan with Kirrahe and save the Salarian team as well when I leave her to die.

It's also better to do it that way because when you fight Saren he holds you up by your throat over the edge, if you have the Saren fight at the bomb he just holds you up in the air above level ground.

[AresKeith]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Tell you what: if you throw Shepard's life in the balance, I'd consider the scenario.

If you bring characters that you ignore or verbally degrade on the beam run, then the trust isn't there and Shepard dies in the process of beating the Reapers. If you've built a kinship with those squad members, meaning you're forced to develop a bond with them across the game, then Shepard lives to see those he left behind.

Well, by my Shepard's very nature, he's incapable of feeling survivor's guilt or PTSD. I'm good with that. I always build a rapport with my crew.

Liara and Ashley/Tali die, and he lives to know that they died getting him to safety.

Also, once more, you don't have to kill both characters. Liara died while Shepard dragged Vega to cover, or Garrus dies while Shepard carries Ashley to safety or whatever.

I actually understand your scenario, but this is like the SM where some players killed off crewmembers on purpose

And I have no problem with that. It's their game, let them do whatever the hell they want to do with their Shepard.

And I agree, but you should really base this on EMS level

[Falaxe]

Wow... Miranda fanboys really, really hate Liara I think that`s ok, because I would have liked to add Liara on the list of killable characters. *

I replayed ME2 ending few times with only 2 random squadmates alive, but grinding ME3 battle scenes is somewhere between boring and "not worth it". I want to see Citadel DLC party with minimal squadmates alive.


(* I have feel bad now , I don`t want to kill anybody or add them to the "list of killables")

Modifié par Falaxe, 18 mai 2013 - 10:06 .