790 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

Players should never be penalized for bringing squadmates they like on a mission.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Players should never be penalized for bringing squadmates they like on a mission.

Which is why I put a compromise in his scenario  

[dreamgazer]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

See, I don't like that though. That keeps my Shepard from doing what I want him to do. Two (or one) people who I like die, so that two people I hate live.

Why would your Shepard be taking untrusted, unliked characters on the absolute most-important moment in the entire narrative?

Because they're now soldiers doing as he orders them to do. They're expected to be competent and strong enough on their own to have their **** squared away and not let any issues (personal or professional) get in the way of the mission.

Also because the squadmates I trust the most are the ones I trust most to lead and operate independently from my Shepard.

I trust Garrus and his combat abilities. I trust him to back me up from afar, or lead his own team into battle. I trust James to do the same. And Javik. If I have Ashley (I'd be bringing her with Liara), I'd have Tali operating with a drone squad, and EDI would be better served as a tactical computer at headquarters, coordinating groundfire and air assault fire solutions.

Hey, having their heads screwed on straight doesn't mean they're going to go out of their way to save Shepard's tail.  The objective is to get to the beam, not get Shepard to the beam.  Plus, getting there is kind of a big deal. 

But I get where your mind-frame is at. I disagree, but I get it. 

[David7204]

Players should never be penalized for bringing squadmates they like on a mission, period. No compromises. You don't screw the player over doing something like that. At least not in a game like this. It would be acceptable in game where the theme is more 'life sucks, people suck, society sucks, you suck, and it's just so mature.' We all know stories like that.

Modifié par David7204, 18 mai 2013 - 10:47 .

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

Players should never be penalized for bringing squadmates they like on a mission, period. No compromises. You don't screw the player over doing something like that. At least not in a game like this. It would be acceptable in game where the theme is more 'life sucks, people suck, society sucks, you suck, and it's just so mature.' We all know stories like that.

And I would normally agree if what he was suggesting didn't have choice in it

[Hazegurl]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

I don't know why they get upset over players planning the death's of characters either. Honestly, I'd kill the whole ME1 team if I could. Wrex is really the only character I have any positive feelings for. I've always hated Ashley, Liara and Tali grew more and more negative as the series progressed (not that I ever saw them in a good light to begin with). Kaidan is ok, but nothing special, and Garrus was always meh to me. I don't see how he's my Shepard's bro at all. 

That's why I like DA:O the best. Any companion I don't like I can tell them to pack up and take a walk. (Even though I never did) They can even betray me and try to kill me, like Zevran if I don't build a decent relationship with them or if I'm dumb enough to keep him around without building one. Alistair is the only one I can't tell to leave (and the dog) but I can still eventually get rid of him too. I don't get why in Mass Effect, a commander in charge of saving the galaxy can't look at a squadmate and go "You're not cutting it, pack up and get off my ship." Who cares what the player's reasons are for doing it. In ME1 I would tell Liara to leave once I got the info I needed from her, cause she's no soldier and I never used her in combat. Same for Tali. I also didn't get how Garrus became my Shep's BFF, I saw him as more of a butt kisser than anything. I wouldn't kill him for it but I'm glad the option is there in ME2. That's all I want, the options.

[David7204]

For all intents and purposes, you have no choice. Players are not psychic. They can't divine that one of their squadmates is going to die and that they should pick at least one they really don't like.

[AresKeith]

David7204 wrote...

For all intents and purposes, you have no choice. Players are not psychic. They can't divine that one of their squadmates is going to die and that they should pick at least one they really don't like.

Did you read the past page?

[David7204]

Hazegurl wrote...

That's why I like DA:O the best. Any companion I don't like I can tell them to pack up and take a walk. (Even though I never did) They can even betray me and try to kill me, like Zevran if I don't build a decent relationship with them or if I'm dumb enough to keep him around without building one. Alistair is the only one I can't tell to leave (and the dog) but I can still eventually get rid of him too. I don't get why in Mass Effect, a commander in charge of saving the galaxy can't look at a squadmate and go "You're not cutting it, pack up and get off my ship." Who cares what the player's reasons are for doing it. In ME1 I would tell Liara to leave once I got the info I needed from her, cause she's no soldier and I never used her in combat. Same for Tali. I also didn't get how Garrus became my Shep's BFF, I saw him as more of a butt kisser than anything. I wouldn't kill him for it but I'm glad the option is there in ME2. That's all I want, the options.

The more freedom the player has to kill or dismiss companions as the please, the less impact those companions can have on the story and on each other. Companions you can dismiss at any time means companions that have zero impact on the story. Simple as that.

Modifié par David7204, 18 mai 2013 - 11:00 .

[Hazegurl]

David7204 wrote...

For all intents and purposes, you have no choice. Players are not psychic. They can't divine that one of their squadmates is going to die and that they should pick at least one they really don't like.

That's why the first playthrough will be th emost emotional cause you have to choose between two squadmates you like and trust. Now as for the second playthrough...

Modifié par Hazegurl, 18 mai 2013 - 10:57 .

[David7204]

That is repulsive. What you're suggesting is shoving in completely awful writing and game design for the sole purpose of cheap shock value and contrived conflict. Not only that, you're forcing players to act out of character and choose characters they dislike for the final mission to get a happy ending. Ridiculous.

Modifié par David7204, 18 mai 2013 - 11:00 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

For all intents and purposes, you have no choice. Players are not psychic. They can't divine that one of their squadmates is going to die and that they should pick at least one they really don't like.

Did you read the past page?

It's David.

If everyone likes something except him, that just proves how much of a moron everyone else is.

Not saying that's how my situation is, but David has it in his head that what he prefers or likes is objectively good. If everyone else disagree's with him, then they're moronic idiots in his eyes.

[Hazegurl]

David7204 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

That's why I like DA:O the best. Any companion I don't like I can tell them to pack up and take a walk. (Even though I never did) They can even betray me and try to kill me, like Zevran if I don't build a decent relationship with them or if I'm dumb enough to keep him around without building one. Alistair is the only one I can't tell to leave (and the dog) but I can still eventually get rid of him too. I don't get why in Mass Effect, a commander in charge of saving the galaxy can't look at a squadmate and go "You're not cutting it, pack up and get off my ship." Who cares what the player's reasons are for doing it. In ME1 I would tell Liara to leave once I got the info I needed from her, cause she's no soldier and I never used her in combat. Same for Tali. I also didn't get how Garrus became my Shep's BFF, I saw him as more of a butt kisser than anything. I wouldn't kill him for it but I'm glad the option is there in ME2. That's all I want, the options.

The more freedom the player has to kill or dismiss companions as the please, the less impact those companions can hav eon the story and on each other. Companions you can dismiss at any time means companions that have zero impact on the story. Simple as that.

In DA, I can dismiss Morrigan (who has a very important role in the story later and even her own dlc) from my group and she will show up later for that story changing moment and even then I still have a choice as to whether or not I want to take her offer, I can still tell her to p*ss off. If I dismiss a character from my group then it means I don't give two craps about how they can contribute to my story or to other companions.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

That is repulsive. What you're suggesting is shoving in completely awful writing and game design for the sole purpose of cheap shock value and contrived conflict. Not only that, you're forcing players to act out of character and choose characters they dislike for the final mission to get a happy ending. Ridiculous.

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it objectively bad David. And you obviously didn't read the last page at all. There is a way to save both squadmates. It's also a way to kill squadmates you don't like.

And how is it awful writing? Or bad game design?

Cheap Shock Value? What?

I don't think you know what  you're talking about.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 mai 2013 - 11:04 .

[AresKeith]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

David7204 wrote...

For all intents and purposes, you have no choice. Players are not psychic. They can't divine that one of their squadmates is going to die and that they should pick at least one they really don't like.

Did you read the past page?

It's David.

If everyone likes something except him, that just proves how much of a moron everyone else is.

Not saying that's how my situation is, but David has it in his head that what he prefers or likes is objectively good. If everyone else disagree's with him, then they're moronic idiots in his eyes.

Because the compromise allow people to bring the characters they like now

[Barquiel]

Why would anyone want to kill a character during the beam run? That's absolutely idiotic. I can understand wanting to kill a character during the suicide mission in ME2 because you don't want to see them in ME3 (or you prefer their replacements). But the beam run? The story of Shepard is practically over at that point.

[David7204]

Your little suggestion is ridiculous. You're demanding awful content because the idea of being 'forced' to watch Liara or Ashley live distresses you unduly. Are you really this incredibly petty?

[themikefest]

Hazegurl wrote...
That's why I like DA:O the best. Any companion I don't like I can tell them to pack up and take a walk. (Even though I never did) They can even betray me and try to kill me, like Zevran if I don't build a decent relationship with them or if I'm dumb enough to keep him around without building one. Alistair is the only one I can't tell to leave (and the dog) but I can still eventually get rid of him too. I don't get why in Mass Effect, a commander in charge of saving the galaxy can't look at a squadmate and go "You're not cutting it, pack up and get off my ship." Who cares what the player's reasons are for doing it. In ME1 I would tell Liara to leave once I got the info I needed from her, cause she's no soldier and I never used her in combat. Same for Tali. I also didn't get how Garrus became my Shep's BFF, I saw him as more of a butt kisser than anything. I wouldn't kill him for it but I'm glad the option is there in ME2. That's all I want, the options.

Agreed.

.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Barquiel wrote...

Why would anyone want to kill a character during the beam run? That's absolutely idiotic. I can understand wanting to kill a character during the suicide mission in ME2 because you don't want to see them in ME3 (or you prefer their replacements). But the beam run? The story of Shepard is practically over at that point.

Exactly. Makes them living or dying pretty irrelevant to Shepard running to the beam. 

That said, you don't have to kill them. If you know what to do, you can save them both. It's a choice for the player.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 mai 2013 - 11:08 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Your little suggestion is ridiculous. You're demanding awful content because the idea of being 'forced' to watch Liara or Ashley live distresses you unduly. Are you really this incredibly petty?

Objectively explain to me how it's awful content. I'll tell you exactly if it's objective or not. Pretty sure it's going to land in subjective territory. It gives the player even more choice who lives and dies. You can save them both if you wish, or you can have them both die. And you can go in-between.

And yes, I am that petty. Why does it bother you?

You're butthurt I don't like Liara.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 mai 2013 - 11:10 .

[David7204]

Hang on, I'm going back and reading. How do you save both characters?

[Hazegurl]

David7204 wrote...

That is repulsive. What you're suggesting is shoving in completely awful writing and game design for the sole purpose of cheap shock value and contrived conflict. Not only that, you're forcing players to act out of character and choose characters they dislike for the final mission to get a happy ending. Ridiculous.

 I don't see how the player would have to act OOC in their first playthrough of the game, you don't even know the freaking choice is coming.

You seem to not even understand that a role playing game should offer the player choices and options cause you're afriad that they would choose something that is different. That's what linear games are for.

Sadly I think Bioware(at least the ME team so far) is making games with people like you in mind.

[AlanC9]

More EMS? Or are we talking about some other system?

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 mai 2013 - 11:14 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

David7204 wrote...

Hang on, I'm going back and reading. How do you save both characters?

If you have high enough EMS, Anderson is close enough to you to save the second squadmate (the left choice) IF you choose to save the first (the right choice).

I think when you're on the squad choice list, the first character you choose is on the right, and the second you choose is on the left.

If you choose to save the second squadmate, the first is killed by Harbinger. If you don't take the P/R prompt, they both die.

Modifié par MassivelyEffective0730, 18 mai 2013 - 11:13 .