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Why is Liara being forced on me again? (Citadel DLC)


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#776
CronoDragoon

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o Ventus wrote...
The only squad characters who are at all necessary in the entire trilogy are Liara, Shepard, Miranda, and Mordin.


EDI.

Defining "purpose in a narrative" as you have done in this thread severely limits the depth that a story can have. Characters can have purpose without directly contributing to the resolution of the conflict. One example, which is really the only example necessary, is that they can provide personal reflections of the main theme or themes that the story is trying to express.

#777
o Ventus

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CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
The only squad characters who are at all necessary in the entire trilogy are Liara, Shepard, Miranda, and Mordin.


EDI.

Defining "purpose in a narrative" as you have done in this thread severely limits the depth that a story can have. Characters can have purpose without directly contributing to the resolution of the conflict. One example, which is really the only example necessary, is that they can provide personal reflections of the main theme or themes that the story is trying to express.


Sure. Except in this case, the themes presented are wildly out of touch with the rest of the story. According to Bioware, by the end of the game, the main conflict is about organics and synthetics warring with each other. How do any characters beside Legion, Tali, and EDI expand on this in any way whatsoever?

#778
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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o Ventus wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
The only squad characters who are at all necessary in the entire trilogy are Liara, Shepard, Miranda, and Mordin.


EDI.

Defining "purpose in a narrative" as you have done in this thread severely limits the depth that a story can have. Characters can have purpose without directly contributing to the resolution of the conflict. One example, which is really the only example necessary, is that they can provide personal reflections of the main theme or themes that the story is trying to express.


Sure. Except in this case, the themes presented are wildly out of touch with the rest of the story. According to Bioware, by the end of the game, the main conflict is about organics and synthetics warring with each other. How do any characters beside Legion, Tali, and EDI expand on this in any way whatsoever?


Sadly true. I think if they had at least kept even a small semblance of the dark energy storyline involved, then biotics (and probably humans in general) would have played a bigger role in the Reaper themes. Now everything outside of EDI and Legion's "pinnochio" stories is rendered irrelevant.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 09 août 2013 - 07:00 .


#779
elrofrost

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Only Liara is forced on you (she can not die). You can still cure the Kogan without Mordin. Miranda's death, though tragic, does nothing to the over-all plot. Either way you still get the tracer on Kai lang.

Sad but true. Liara doesn't die. Too bad, cause I wold've killed her off in ME2.

PS. I forgot about EDI. She's (it) forced on you too. I wouldve preferred if she stayed part of the ship though.

Modifié par elrofrost, 09 août 2013 - 07:25 .


#780
CronoDragoon

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o Ventus wrote...
Sure. Except in this case, the themes presented are wildly out of touch with the rest of the story. According to Bioware, by the end of the game, the main conflict is about organics and synthetics warring with each other. How do any characters beside Legion, Tali, and EDI expand on this in any way whatsoever?


Agreed, but in my opinion a story is never really about one theme, or put another way there are various ways to interpret a story. For instance, one may argue, based on the concept of choice throughout the series, that a major theme of the series is deontological morality vs. consequential morality - or: what consequences are we as humans willing to accept for our actions? What is just war? Should war have rules?

In this way, Garrus has a lot to say during the series that is relevant.

Additionally, Shepard's status as a hero/legend is something that orbits around all the decisions you make, everyone you talk to. How does the perception of a hero influence the way the hero sees himself? In what sense do we lie to ourselves by creating idealized versions of these "heroes"? James's story is relevant here.

In another sense, you can broaden the synthetic/organic theme into a theme about the confrontation with the Other, which I think rings more true considering the entire series is about interacting with aliens. Seen this way, suddenly a lot more character arcs make sense.

The only characters that I could see as useless are ones whose character arc portrays messages unrelated to any other character/plot point in the series. Of course, it's possible that while a character is relevant to a story or theme, their existence (either through redundancy or otherwise) may bloat a story and dilute the effectiveness of its content. Are there redundant characters in Mass Effect? Probably.

#781
Barquiel

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elrofrost wrote...

Only Liara is forced on you (she can not die). You can still cure the Kogan without Mordin. Miranda's death, though tragic, does nothing to the over-all plot. Either way you still get the tracer on Kai lang.

Sad but true. Liara doesn't die. Too bad, cause I wold've killed her off in ME2.

PS. I forgot about EDI. She's (it) forced on you too. I wouldve preferred if she stayed part of the ship though.


Ashley, Kaidan, Liara, Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, Jack, EDI and James were all  "forced on you" at some point of the triology.

#782
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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Barquiel wrote...

elrofrost wrote...

Only Liara is forced on you (she can not die). You can still cure the Kogan without Mordin. Miranda's death, though tragic, does nothing to the over-all plot. Either way you still get the tracer on Kai lang.

Sad but true. Liara doesn't die. Too bad, cause I wold've killed her off in ME2.

PS. I forgot about EDI. She's (it) forced on you too. I wouldve preferred if she stayed part of the ship though.


Ashley, Kaidan, Liara, Tali, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob, Jack, EDI and James were all  "forced on you" at some point of the triology.


Their complaint is not about forced squad membership, but that Liara can't die like any of the others (well, not until the very end, I guess? On low EMS destroy? Not sure).

Modifié par StreetMagic, 09 août 2013 - 07:35 .


#783
Wynterdust

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Neither can James or EDI though.

#784
o Ventus

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Wynterdust wrote...

Neither can James or EDI though.


Yes they can.

#785
TheProtheans

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o Ventus wrote...

Wynterdust wrote...

Neither can James or EDI though.


Yes they can.


Where can they die before that?

#786
shingara

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wierdly killing edi on mid ems actualy saves her. god only knows how that works

#787
Wynterdust

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James, EDI, Liara, Garrus and Javik cannot die until the final beam run in ME3. EDI perhaps not even then since only her platform would be destroyed and not her as a character. But yeah, EDI and James share the same immunity to death as Liara does.

#788
Guest_StreetMagic_*

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I wonder why with James then. I wonder if they have more planned for him. I like the character a lot.

Also, if this is true, it makes Liara less annoying (to me). At least she isn't alone.

On a sidenote, I don't totally hate her, but I don't like the prominence and exclusivity she seems to take. That's my only complaint. I can't quite put my finger on it, but her continued presence shapes the general "vibe" of the series into something I don't care for. Like they're only concerned with appealing with a specific demographic.

Modifié par StreetMagic, 09 août 2013 - 08:30 .


#789
shingara

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Wynterdust wrote...

James, EDI, Liara, Garrus and Javik cannot die until the final beam run in ME3. EDI perhaps not even then since only her platform would be destroyed and not her as a character. But yeah, EDI and James share the same immunity to death as Liara does.


 Ye, if you can vapourize evas body then edi remains with normandy, doesnt show on the memorial wall.

#790
Han Shot First

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elrofrost wrote...

Only Liara is forced on you (she can not die). You can still cure the Kogan without Mordin. Miranda's death, though tragic, does nothing to the over-all plot. Either way you still get the tracer on Kai lang.

Sad but true. Liara doesn't die. Too bad, cause I wold've killed her off in ME2.

PS. I forgot about EDI. She's (it) forced on you too. I wouldve preferred if she stayed part of the ship though.


That is incorrect.

Liara can die in Low EMS endings if she is brought along for the beam rush, and that was always the case, even before the Extended Cut.

Now if you feel that Liara should have been a potential casualty in High EMS playthroughs, that's quite different than arguing "she can't die." Because clearly she can.

#791
o Ventus

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shingara wrote...

Wynterdust wrote...

James, EDI, Liara, Garrus and Javik cannot die until the final beam run in ME3. EDI perhaps not even then since only her platform would be destroyed and not her as a character. But yeah, EDI and James share the same immunity to death as Liara does.


 Ye, if you can vapourize evas body then edi remains with normandy, doesnt show on the memorial wall.


Shoot the tube.