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[The Night Mammoth]

Barquiel wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I think people have been spoiled by the amount of control they had over Shepard. Now they want to control every character and everything they do to tailor their experience exactly how they want it.

Exactly. And even Shepard was always less of a blank slate than the Warden or the Bhaalspawn.

I don't care if someone doesn't like Liara, but I don't understand why they don't like her because she's forced. 

Or, I do understand, I just think that's a stupid reason. Apparently characters are only supposed to do anything, say anything, or display any kind of emotion if Shepard tells them to. Bo-o-o-o-o-o-ring.

[KaiserShep]

This whole forced thing is ridiculous, because as far as I can recall, most of the interaction between Shepard and Liara requires you to actively engage in conversation. Key plot points that require her input don't make her forced. 

I guess you can take it out on her by denying her gift on Earth. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 mai 2013 - 02:25 .

[Morlath]

KaiserShep wrote...

This whole forced thing is ridiculous, because as far as I can recall, most of the interaction between Shepard and Liara requires you to actively engage in conversation. Key plot points that require her input don't make her forced. 

I guess you can take it out on her by denying her gift on Earth. 

Player goes to NPC.
Player talks to NPC
Player complains about dialogue with NPC.

[Ecrulis]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I think people have been spoiled by the amount of control they had over Shepard. Now they want to control every character and everything they do to tailor their experience exactly how they want it.

Exactly. And even Shepard was always less of a blank slate than the Warden or the Bhaalspawn.

I don't care if someone doesn't like Liara, but I don't understand why they don't like her because she's forced. 

Or, I do understand, I just think that's a stupid reason. Apparently characters are only supposed to do anything, say anything, or display any kind of emotion if Shepard tells them to. Bo-o-o-o-o-o-ring.

/agree

[Ymladdych]

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't care if someone doesn't like Liara, but I don't understand why they don't like her because she's forced. 

Or, I do understand, I just think that's a stupid reason. Apparently characters are only supposed to do anything, say anything, or display any kind of emotion if Shepard tells them to. Bo-o-o-o-o-o-ring.

Liara's overbearing presence isn't the root of my dislike for her character, but it certainly inflames that dislike into a hatred.

By the way, it's not just that she's forced. A lot of Bioware characters are forced, but she receives more hate than the others because her "friendly" content assumes a closeness that it shouldn't...to the point where it flat out overrides player choice in NON-OPTIONAL instances. (I gave some examples a few pages back.)

Nor is it just about Liara "having a crush" - although her stalking and flirting *are* pretty off-putting - it's that Shepard's hard-coded behavior towards her is overtly romantic...regardless of gender or LI choice.

Let me put it this way: how many players would be "okay" with her interactions throughout the trilogy if "she" was a "he." What if she was swapped with James Vega? Or Alistair? Maybe Jack from "Titanic?" How about Edward Cullen? (Insert whatever mainstream female-fantasy targeted character that simultaneously bores and annoys the living crap out of you.)

How would the bulk of players feel about his constant presence and flirting? His hard-coded intimacy with their avatar? How would they feel about their avatar acting "in love" with this character? If femShep players' (RL males and RL females) reactions to the "friendly" Jacob interactions are any indication...I don't think they'd be too okay with it.

Just to expose the blindspot a little bit more (***OMEGA spoiler***)...

Would Aria's unsolicited and unprotested Renegade kiss have occurred if her character was male? How would players feel about that? Hetero males...lesbians...hetero females that don't want it?

Once again, I suspect most players wouldn't be too "okay" with it, but for some reason, assumptions change when the "offender" is female; suddenly it's considered a non-issue. (Except for the people for whom it *is* an issue.)

Modifié par Ymladdych, 17 mai 2013 - 03:50 .

[Ecrulis]

Ymladdych wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't care if someone doesn't like Liara, but I don't understand why they don't like her because she's forced. 

Or, I do understand, I just think that's a stupid reason. Apparently characters are only supposed to do anything, say anything, or display any kind of emotion if Shepard tells them to. Bo-o-o-o-o-o-ring.

Liara's overbearing presence isn't the root of my dislike for her character, but it certainly inflames that dislike into a hatred.

By the way, it's not just that she's forced. A lot of Bioware characters are forced, but she receives more hate than the others because her "friendly" content assumes a closeness that it shouldn't...to the point where it flat out overrides player choice in NON-OPTIONAL instances. (I gave some examples a few pages back.)

Nor is it just about Liara "having a crush" - although her stalking and flirting *are* pretty off-putting - it's that Shepard's hard-coded behavior towards her is overtly romantic...regardless of gender or LI choice.

Let me put it this way: how many players would be "okay" with her interactions throughout the trilogy if "she" was a "he." What if she was swapped with James Vega? Or Alistair? Maybe Jack from "Titanic?" How about Edward Cullen? (Insert whatever mainstream female-fantasy targeted character that simultaneously bores and annoys the living crap out of you.)

How would the bulk of players feel about his constant presence and flirting? His hard-coded intimacy with their avatar? How would they feel about their avatar acting "in love" with this character? If femShep players' (RL males and RL females) reactions to the "friendly" Jacob interactions are any indication...I don't think they'd be too okay with it.

Just to expose the blindspot a little bit more (***OMEGA spoiler***)...

Would Aria's unsolicited and unprotested Renegade kiss have occurred if her character was male? How would players feel about that? Hetero males...lesbians...hetero females that don't want it?

Once again, I suspect most players wouldn't be too "okay" with it, but for some reason, assumptions change when the "offender" is female; suddenly it's considered a non-issue. (Except for the people for whom it *is* an issue.)

First, where do people get the whole stalker thing from? she shows up to your cabin unannounced a grand total of two times (knocks both times) and both times she is there to relay mission-related information to you and then happens to notice something is bothering you, also in my playthroughs where she isn't a LI I don't find anything romantic or "uncomfortably close" about her interactions at all. Also to answer your question as long as the Asari being male was well done/written and made sense with the story I wouldn't care at all.

[The Night Mammoth]

Ymladdych wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't care if someone doesn't like Liara, but I don't understand why they don't like her because she's forced. 

Or, I do understand, I just think that's a stupid reason. Apparently characters are only supposed to do anything, say anything, or display any kind of emotion if Shepard tells them to. Bo-o-o-o-o-o-ring.

Liara's overbearing presence isn't the root of my dislike for her character, but it certainly inflames that dislike into a hatred.

By the way, it's not just that she's forced. A lot of Bioware characters are forced, but she receives more hate than the others because her "friendly" content assumes a closeness that it shouldn't...to the point where it flat out overrides player choice in NON-OPTIONAL instances. (I gave some examples a few pages back.)

Nor is it just about Liara "having a crush" - although her stalking and flirting *are* pretty off-putting - it's that Shepard's hard-coded behavior towards her is overtly romantic...regardless of gender or LI choice.

Which would be fine if a vast amount of hyperbole weren't at work. Liara doesn't flirt with you, or stalk you, for example, and she's not the only character Shepard is assumed to be on moderately friendly terms with. 

Let me put it this way: how many players would be "okay" with her interactions throughout the trilogy if "she" was a "he." What if she was swapped with James Vega? Or Alistair? Maybe Jack from "Titanic?" How about Edward Cullen? (Insert whatever mainstream female-fantasy targeted character that simultaneously bores and annoys the living crap out of you.)

How would the bulk of players feel about his constant presence and flirting? His hard-coded intimacy with their avatar? How would they feel about their avatar acting "in love" with this character? If femShep players' (RL males and RL females) reactions to the "friendly" Jacob interactions are any indication...I don't think they'd be too okay with it.

Just to expose the blindspot a little bit more (***OMEGA spoiler***)...

Would Aria's unsolicited and unprotested Renegade kiss have occurred if her character was male? How would players feel about that? Hetero males...lesbians...hetero females that don't want it?

Once again, I suspect most players wouldn't be too "okay" with it, but for some reason, assumptions change when the "offender" is female; suddenly it's considered a non-issue. (Except for the people for whom it *is* an issue.)

Since I don't think the initial premise has merit, I don't know. I'm not denying that Liara has more content than other characters or that some of that content wouldn't be be better given to other characters, but I think people are vastly over exaggerating the scale of the problem and turning it from a credible argument about how BioWare should have given more content to more appropriate characters in certain situations, like when she comes to check on Shepard after the dream sequences, into shouting about how they want to kill Liara because she relentlessly stalks Shepard and BioWare apparently forces her on them at every opportunity, which is silly. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 mai 2013 - 05:28 .

[Ymladdych]

Ecrulis wrote...
First, where do people get the whole stalker thing from? she shows up to your cabin unannounced a grand total of two times (knocks both times) and both times she is there to relay mission-related information to you and then happens to notice something is bothering you, also in my playthroughs where she isn't a LI I don't find anything romantic or "uncomfortably close" about her interactions at all. Also to answer your question as long as the Asari being male was well done/written and made sense with the story I wouldn't care at all.

I'm sure there are plenty of threads that list the reasons people find her creepy, so I don't see the point of re-hashing them here. Suffice it to say, that ME3 only accounts for part of it. Although I will point out, that in one of her ME3 visits, she does *not* knock to enter the cabin. She enters the cabin and then knocks on the bathroom door. (A logistics thing that I can understand, but it still implies more familiarity on her part than if Shepard had exited the bathroom before she knocked on the cabin door.)

As for whether you, personally, have a problem with her non-LI dialogue...well, you're not exactly impartial, are you? You have a Liara avatar, and you mention playthroughs where she's your LI, so your tolerance level is going to be very different from players who feel no connection to her, or abjectly dislike her. If there wasn't some truth to the complaints, then why do these threads keep popping up over and over again? For years?

On a final note, if you're genuine about your indifference to gender-bending the Liara and Aria characters, then I commend you for being more open-minded than most. I suspect that you'd be a minority, however.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

The "Has a bit of your armor in a display case" thing was a little creepy.

I didn't really see anything else that I would label as creepy or stalkerish

But at the end of the day I just find her mildly annoying.

[KaiserShep]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

>Game full of criminals, psychopaths, murderers, thugs and a-holes

>Hate one of the friendliest characters

Priorities pls

Yeah but you get to kill those guys. 

I think her friendliness does rub some people the wrong way. I disagree, but then I have a clear bias toward this character, as well as Garrus. I could lose every other character in the game, and while I'd feel bad for most of them, having those two remain would make it OK. 

[Han Shot First]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I think people have been spoiled by the amount of control they had over Shepard. Now they want to control every character and everything they do to tailor their experience exactly how they want it.

Exactly. And even Shepard was always less of a blank slate than the Warden or the Bhaalspawn.

I don't care if someone doesn't like Liara, but I don't understand why they don't like her because she's forced. 

Or, I do understand, I just think that's a stupid reason. Apparently characters are only supposed to do anything, say anything, or display any kind of emotion if Shepard tells them to. Bo-o-o-o-o-o-ring.

Agreed.

I also don't understand why some people gripe about the scene where Liara has a chat with Shepard about the Virmire casualty. Liara was my Shepard's LI, but had the writers instead opted to use Garrus or Tali or any other character who is canonically close to Shepard, I would have liked the scene all the same.
 
I'm not sure why some people insist that it must be their character's LI in that scene, as there is nothing in the chat itself that is LI-specific. Liara comes up to talk about the Crucible, and notices that something is bothering Shepard.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 17 mai 2013 - 06:01 .

[Ecrulis]

Ymladdych wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...
First, where do people get the whole stalker thing from? she shows up to your cabin unannounced a grand total of two times (knocks both times) and both times she is there to relay mission-related information to you and then happens to notice something is bothering you, also in my playthroughs where she isn't a LI I don't find anything romantic or "uncomfortably close" about her interactions at all. Also to answer your question as long as the Asari being male was well done/written and made sense with the story I wouldn't care at all.

I'm sure there are plenty of threads that list the reasons people find her creepy, so I don't see the point of re-hashing them here. Suffice it to say, that ME3 only accounts for part of it. Although I will point out, that in one of her ME3 visits, she does *not* knock to enter the cabin. She enters the cabin and then knocks on the bathroom door. (A logistics thing that I can understand, but it still implies more familiarity on her part than if Shepard had exited the bathroom before she knocked on the cabin door.)

As for whether you, personally, have a problem with her non-LI dialogue...well, you're not exactly impartial, are you? You have a Liara avatar, and you mention playthroughs where she's your LI, so your tolerance level is going to be very different from players who feel no connection to her, or abjectly dislike her. If there wasn't some truth to the complaints, then why do these threads keep popping up over and over again? For years?

On a final note, if you're genuine about your indifference to gender-bending the Liara and Aria characters, then I commend you for being more open-minded than most. I suspect that you'd be a minority, however.

For the record I don't really put much thought into my avatar on the BSN I'd rather have it be a picture of my first shep into ME3 but I'm far too lazy, and I hardly think it's all that difficult to be objective about a character you like, I agree with cheesecake your armor in her room for anyone other than a LI is a tad creepy though I could easily RP a shep that grows close to her like a sister then suddenly it's not all that creepy but I will give you that one.

I have also said in the past that I would agree that there are some scenes with Liara that would have been perfect for other LIs, the time capsul for instance would have been great if your LI came up saying "Liara was asking me about you" or something along those lines but there is nothing inherently intimate about your interactions with her unromanced, hell even when romancing her in ME3 she feels more like a friend sometimes in terms of acknowledging a relationship Garrus' scenes do a much better job than Liaras.

While certain things may have seemed "friendlier" than humans are used to I always thought of it as a cultural difference, seeinf as how the meld on earth is something friends sometimes do I always pictured the Asari concept of friendship as being just a bit closer than how humans would define it.

[Mr.House]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ah a Liara hate thread, where the vocal minority come from their rock and spew hyperbole. How I miss thee.

Liara is not forced on you at all in the Citadel dlc, nor does she flirt with you. She's no more forced on you then Joker and Vega(unless Wrex is alive, then Wrex is forced on you)

Bolded is a lie. Giving someone a once over and saying "you look good" in a sultry voice (and having to do a "Oh! Uh..." moment is flirting. Not not be blatant "TAKE ME TO BED NOW!" but it's flirty. And yes she still says that if you didn't romance her. Got it on my stevemancer.

Wait, so if I say to my dad you look good because he's wearing a spiffy suit that's flirting with him? wtf

[Ymladdych]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Which would be fine if a vast amount of hyperbole weren't at work. Liara doesn't flirt with you, or stalk you, for example, and she's not the only character Shepard is assumed to be on moderately friendly terms with. 

Since I don't think the initial premise has merit, I don't know. I'm not denying that Liara has more content than other characters or that some of that content wouldn't be be better given to other characters, but I think people are vastly over exaggerating the scale of the problem and turning it from a credible argument about how BioWare should have given more content to more appropriate characters in certain situations, like when she comes to check on Shepard after the dream sequences, into shouting about how they want to kill Liara because she relentlessly stalks Shepard and BioWare apparently forces her on them at every opportunity, which is silly. 

I'll agree that the "Liara Issue" isn't the biggest problem in the franchise, and I give kudos to the team for extending an olive branch with "Citadel," but obviously it *is* a problem for people - something they don't want to see repeated with future games. Whether you think it's a "vast exaggeration" or not is irrelevant...that's up to Bioware to figure out, and they deserve to know.

Now you say the Liara complaints are hyperbole? How so?

Does Liara not show obsessive tendencies in ME1 because of his exposure to the beacon? Yes.
Does her previously girlish breathy-voice drop into a seductive purr with, "You intrrrrrrrigue me, Shepard."? Yes.
Does Liara not flirt with Shepard in the Citadel DLC if he's not romancing a squad member? Yes.
Does Liara not hunt down his body, sacrificing a friend on the way because she "couldn't let [Shepard] go?" Yes.
Does Liara not keep a piece of his armor under glass in her apartment? Yes.
Does Liara not spy on Shepard with cameras in the Normandy? Yes.

As a woman in RL, these things scream, "Restraining order!" to me. (Notice I didn't even have to touch the ME3 stuff.)

And then there's Shepard's contribution to the problem, cut and pasted from an earlier post of mine:

I entered this franchise with ME2 for PS3 completely unspoiled, and just
by watching the Genesis comic, I could see the disparity. I even told
my best friend while it was playing, "Wow. They really want me to pick
the blue girl."

Then, after I played "Lair of the Shadow Broker,"
I asked that same best friend, "Why do I feel like my Shepard's in love
with her and regrets that they never hooked up?"

I've long since
played the entire trilogy, and I could flood you with a ton of examples
of things that contribute to this alienation, but I'll just give you
two big ones off the top of my head:

• In
  "Lair of the Shadow Broker," Shepard will dive to save Liara from
  debris, with a quick shot of them spooning on the floor without a care
  in the world,  while the other squadmate gets to eat 300 pounds of desk.
  (Mind you, Shepard's equally close to both henchmen.) What if the
  player has an ME2 LI and brings him/her along, as I did?
• In
  vanilla ME3, Shepard shows more emotional depth and intimacy with
  Liara's "friend" scenes than with any of the ME2 romance scenes, barring
  Miranda's death sequence. Lastly, to top it all off, the original disc
  ending shows Shepard's last thought to be of...Liara. (Some might say
  that was a bug, but then I'd ask why the cinematic files weren't even on
  the disc - they weren't added until the EC.)

So, whatever. If you don't see it, you'll never see it, and that's okay. I only care that the developer's see it, which is why I step in when I see the Blue Brigade trying to silence anyone who voices their opinion on it. (Note: I never start these threads myself, though.)

[Ecrulis]

Mr.House wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ah a Liara hate thread, where the vocal minority come from their rock and spew hyperbole. How I miss thee.

Liara is not forced on you at all in the Citadel dlc, nor does she flirt with you. She's no more forced on you then Joker and Vega(unless Wrex is alive, then Wrex is forced on you)

Bolded is a lie. Giving someone a once over and saying "you look good" in a sultry voice (and having to do a "Oh! Uh..." moment is flirting. Not not be blatant "TAKE ME TO BED NOW!" but it's flirty. And yes she still says that if you didn't romance her. Got it on my stevemancer.

Wait, so if I say to my dad you look good because he's wearing a spiffy suit that's flirting with him? wtf

It's the way she says it, though I've always said the reason it is like that is because its the exact same scene if you romance her, this is an example of Bioware cutting corners not of some conspiracy to get you to love Liara.

[Mr.House]

Ecrulis wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ah a Liara hate thread, where the vocal minority come from their rock and spew hyperbole. How I miss thee.

Liara is not forced on you at all in the Citadel dlc, nor does she flirt with you. She's no more forced on you then Joker and Vega(unless Wrex is alive, then Wrex is forced on you)

Bolded is a lie. Giving someone a once over and saying "you look good" in a sultry voice (and having to do a "Oh! Uh..." moment is flirting. Not not be blatant "TAKE ME TO BED NOW!" but it's flirty. And yes she still says that if you didn't romance her. Got it on my stevemancer.

Wait, so if I say to my dad you look good because he's wearing a spiffy suit that's flirting with him? wtf

It's the way she says it, though I've always said the reason it is like that is because its the exact same scene if you romance her, this is an example of Bioware cutting corners not of some conspiracy to get you to love Liara.

She sounds the same like she always osunds. Seems like grasping at straws to me.

Modifié par Mr.House, 17 mai 2013 - 06:04 .

[TARITARI]

Ymladdych wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...
I don't care if someone doesn't like Liara, but I don't understand why they don't like her because she's forced. 

Or, I do understand, I just think that's a stupid reason. Apparently characters are only supposed to do anything, say anything, or display any kind of emotion if Shepard tells them to. Bo-o-o-o-o-o-ring.

Liara's overbearing presence isn't the root of my dislike for her character, but it certainly inflames that dislike into a hatred.

By the way, it's not just that she's forced. A lot of Bioware characters are forced, but she receives more hate than the others because her "friendly" content assumes a closeness that it shouldn't...to the point where it flat out overrides player choice in NON-OPTIONAL instances. (I gave some examples a few pages back.)

Nor is it just about Liara "having a crush" - although her stalking and flirting *are* pretty off-putting - it's that Shepard's hard-coded behavior towards her is overtly romantic...regardless of gender or LI choice.

Let me put it this way: how many players would be "okay" with her interactions throughout the trilogy if "she" was a "he." What if she was swapped with James Vega? Or Alistair? Maybe Jack from "Titanic?" How about Edward Cullen? (Insert whatever mainstream female-fantasy targeted character that simultaneously bores and annoys the living crap out of you.)

How would the bulk of players feel about his constant presence and flirting? His hard-coded intimacy with their avatar? How would they feel about their avatar acting "in love" with this character? If femShep players' (RL males and RL females) reactions to the "friendly" Jacob interactions are any indication...I don't think they'd be too okay with it.

Just to expose the blindspot a little bit more (***OMEGA spoiler***)...

Would Aria's unsolicited and unprotested Renegade kiss have occurred if her character was male? How would players feel about that? Hetero males...lesbians...hetero females that don't want it?

Once again, I suspect most players wouldn't be too "okay" with it, but for some reason, assumptions change when the "offender" is female; suddenly it's considered a non-issue. (Except for the people for whom it *is* an issue.)

Agree with every bit of this.     Liara both being a constant presence AND not having a choice of how the character that I am identifying with as "me"..  (MY Shepard) reacts to her in any sexual way DOES amount to "forced"
I have real trouble believing in the credibility of anybody that says that they would be "okay" with the situation if it was not in line with their own sexual orientation.      
Straight male gamers threw a hissyfit JUST because a bisexual male character propositioned them in Dragon Age!   NO loss of Avatar reaction was even involved!    To think that the majority of these people would be fine with seeing their male Shepard's eyes linger longingly on the crotch area of a well muscled man who was suggesting a relationship is ludicrous.
I got to watch MY Avatar.. MY  female shepard stare at an Asari's breasts as she was coming on to her!    I have NO problem with that being in the game.   I have LOTS of problem with not being able to avoid it.

What confuses me is that anybody MINDS that some people have a problem with it and that I dare to complain about it here.    Why?   Could it be really so petty as they are afraid that some game designer will read this and take their girl on girl action out of the game?     As IF! <_< 

[Han Shot First]

If you want to consider that flirting, Liara still wouldn't be the only character to flirt with Shepard regardless of whether or not that character was being pursued as an LI.

Ashley is quite open about her romantic interest in Shepard in ME1, unless perhaps Shepard is a total renedouche. I never choose the cruel dialogue options with squaddies, so I can't say whether or not that puts a stop to Ashley's romantic interest.

Tali not only flirts with Shepard in ME2, but takes "No thanks Tali, it would be too dangerous" to mean "I'm your boyfriend now." It was rather amusing when my Shepard, who was romancing Miranda in ME2, was told by Tali that he had to make a choice between them. "Uh Tali, already did. Why don't you go help Garrus with his calibrations."

Jack offers casual sex in ME2.

Kelly flirts unless told to knock it off and keep it professional.

And finally in the Citadel DLC Ashley and Tali will make similar comments as Liara if brought along for the casino mission, even if not romanced. They all have similar 'you look good' lines. If Liara is guilty of flirting so are Ashley and Tali

[Ecrulis]

Ymladdych wrote...

Does Liara not show obsessive tendencies in ME1 because of his exposure to the beacon? Yes. 
Yes she is vastly interested in you because of the beacon and yes she has a thing for you in ME1 she also admitadly has 0 experience with Humans or their culture, was she direct with how she felt towards her? Yes, even if she was obsessive it initially has way more to do with possible inside information on the protheans than anyhting else.
Does her previously girlish breathy-voice drop into a seductive purr with, "You intrrrrrrrigue me, Shepard."? Yes.
Yes she has a thing for you in ME1 we've already established that
Does Liara not flirt with Shepard in the Citadel DLC if he's not romancing a squad member? Yes.
Again this has more to do with Bioware cutting corners/being lazy than anything else
Does Liara not hunt down his body, sacrificing a friend on the way because she "couldn't let [Shepard] go?" Yes.
There are a myriad of was this can be taken that have nothing to do with intimate relationships
Does Liara not keep a piece of his armor under glass in her apartment? Yes.
The onyl thing so far that I can agree with
Does Liara not spy on Shepard with cameras in the Normandy? Yes.
She's the shadowbroker, she spies on everyone

[*]

[Ecrulis]

Mr.House wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Ah a Liara hate thread, where the vocal minority come from their rock and spew hyperbole. How I miss thee.

Liara is not forced on you at all in the Citadel dlc, nor does she flirt with you. She's no more forced on you then Joker and Vega(unless Wrex is alive, then Wrex is forced on you)

Bolded is a lie. Giving someone a once over and saying "you look good" in a sultry voice (and having to do a "Oh! Uh..." moment is flirting. Not not be blatant "TAKE ME TO BED NOW!" but it's flirty. And yes she still says that if you didn't romance her. Got it on my stevemancer.

Wait, so if I say to my dad you look good because he's wearing a spiffy suit that's flirting with him? wtf

It's the way she says it, though I've always said the reason it is like that is because its the exact same scene if you romance her, this is an example of Bioware cutting corners not of some conspiracy to get you to love Liara.

She sounds the same like she always osunds. Seems like grasping at straws to me.

It is grasping at straws, as I said most of the complainst against Liara can are easily chalked up to sutting corners and laziness than some grand conspiracy.

[Ymladdych]

TARITARI wrote...
Agree with every bit of this.     Liara both being a constant presence AND not having a choice of how the character that I am identifying with as "me"..  (MY Shepard) reacts to her in any sexual way DOES amount to "forced"
I have real trouble believing in the credibility of anybody that says that they would be "okay" with the situation if it was not in line with their own sexual orientation.      
Straight male gamers threw a hissyfit JUST because a bisexual male character propositioned them in Dragon Age!   NO loss of Avatar reaction was even involved!    To think that the majority of these people would be fine with seeing their male Shepard's eyes linger longingly on the crotch area of a well muscled man who was suggesting a relationship is ludicrous.
I got to watch MY Avatar.. MY  female shepard stare at an Asari's breasts as she was coming on to her!    I have NO problem with that being in the game.   I have LOTS of problem with not being able to avoid it.

What confuses me is that anybody MINDS that some people have a problem with it and that I dare to complain about it here.    Why?   Could it be really so petty as they are afraid that some game designer will read this and take their girl on girl action out of the game?     As IF! <_< 

Exactly. And the thing is, there was a fan-based "Mass Effect Romance" survey with a nice sample size, the largest percentage of whom were women, and I doubt it's a coincidence that Liara took a lot of criticism. I also don't believe it's a coincidence that a lot of the people who share my "Liara Position" on the forums seem to be women.

[KaiserShep]

She also spies on Jacob doing crunches and the obnoxious reporter on the Citadel. I remember watching a video of a Krogan cleaning her clock.

[Ymladdych]

Han Shot First wrote...

If you want to consider that flirting, Liara still wouldn't be the only character to flirt with Shepard regardless of whether or not that character was being pursued as an LI.

Ashley is quite open about her romantic interest in Shepard in ME1, unless perhaps Shepard is a total renedouche. I never choose the cruel dialogue options with squaddies, so I can't say whether or not that puts a stop to Ashley's romantic interest.

Tali not only flirts with Shepard in ME2, but takes "No thanks Tali, it would be too dangerous" to mean "I'm your boyfriend now." It was rather amusing when my Shepard, who was romancing Miranda in ME2, was told by Tali that he had to make a choice between them. "Uh Tali, already did. Why don't you go help Garrus with his calibrations."

Jack offers casual sex in ME2.

Kelly flirts unless told to knock it off and keep it professional.

And finally in the Citadel DLC Ashley and Tali will make similar comments as Liara if brought along for the casino mission, even if not romanced. They all have similar 'you look good' lines. If Liara is guilty of flirting so are Ashley and Tali

Yeah, but the point is...Liara never stops. All those people STOP when Shepard shuts them down. Neither does Shepard act like he's in love with those characters unless he's actually pursuing a romantic relationship.

[Bizinha]

In my save I have romance with Garrus, she respected the other LI.
You must have done something wrong.