575 réponses à ce sujet

[Volus Warlord]

How about make a solid game..?

[Steppenwolf]

Plaintiff wrote...

BasilKarlo wrote...

DA][ owes almost half of it's total sales to pre-orders. Your argument holds exactly no water.

This statement isn't even relevant to what I said.

Except for being entirely relevent. DA][ got a HUGE number of pre-orders. Origins was exceptionally well-received. You are arguing that DA][ sold more poorly than Origins because Origins was not popular. That is just nonsensical and I think you that.

[Steppenwolf]

Volus Warlord wrote...

How about make a solid game..?

They did both with Origins.

[Volus Warlord]

EntropicAngel wrote...

I'm going to sidestep this whole discussion and say that I don't think the new consoles are any more of PCs than the old consoles. At least, show me how they are.

Aggravating DRM policy?

[cJohnOne]

Even if there were 750,000 pre-orders which I doubt that would be 37.5 percent. I believe.

[DragonMage95]

Perhaps this will come off as ignorant or fan-girlish, but I personally think it would be best to just forget about DA:O and DA2 for the moment and just worry about DA3. I'm pretty sure Bioware has already taken the suggestions they wanted from us so right now all we can really do is argue and wait for DA3. DA2 had its flaws but what game doesn't, since when were sequels destined to be great? It's asking a lot for BSN to do this but, can we just agree to disagree. Personally I see DA3 as a whole new game and if a new game doesn't get some fans back Bioware will have to try again. I don't think we can really talk about the affects the new game will have on fans until it actually comes out. But as I always say, that is just my opinion on the matter.

[Volus Warlord]

DomRod95 wrote...

can we just agree to disagree

No.

[DragonMage95]

Volus Warlord wrote...

DomRod95 wrote...

can we just agree to disagree

No.

Of course. 

Modifié par DomRod95, 15 mai 2013 - 03:56 .

[hexaligned]

DomRod95 wrote...

Perhaps this will come off as ignorant or fan-girlish, but I personally think it would be best to just forget about DA:O and DA2 for the moment and just worry about DA3. I'm pretty sure Bioware has already taken the suggestions they wanted from us so right now all we can really do is argue and wait for DA3. DA2 had its flaws but what game doesn't, since when were sequels destined to be great? It's asking a lot for BSN to do this but, can we just agree to disagree. Personally I see DA3 as a whole new game and if a new game doesn't get some fans back Bioware will have to try again. I don't think we can really talk about the affects the new game will have on fans until it actually comes out. But as I always say, that is just my opinion on the matter.

It's either argue on internet forums, or concentrate on writing a Law paper.  I vote for arguing on internet forums.  (but yes I think they are capable of doing better than either game).

[Plaintiff]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Except for being entirely relevent. DA][ got a HUGE number of pre-orders.

It's entirely irrelevent. We're talking about people who did not buy DA2. People who did buy DA2 are a completely different demographic.

Looking at the people who did buy DA2 tells us nothing at all about the people who didn't buy it, because they are two totally disparate groups with no overlap.

Origins was exceptionally well-received.

You would, of course, know this, having polled every single person who played it. Nevermind that Bioware's telemetry shows that the vast majority of players didn't even complete it.

You are arguing that DA][ sold more poorly than Origins because Origins was not popular. That is just nonsensical and I think you that.

Vidoegames are an "experience good". Do you know what that means? It means you have to play them before you can judge their quality.

A lot of people bought DA:O, but that doesn't prove that they liked it. I'm not saying that nobody liked Origins, unlike you, claiming that everybody loved it. Statistically, some people had to dislike it, because there is no such thing as a universally-loved product.

As you say, DA2 sold significantly less units than DA:O, which means a good number of people didn't even give it a chance. It's impossible to know how good a game will be before you play it, so what are they basing it on? Information released by Bioware is part of it, yes, but DA2 is a sequel, meaning people's preconceptions about it will be coloured by their experience of its predecessor.

But oh, no! That can't be right! I forgot, you love DA:O, so that means everybody does.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 mai 2013 - 04:08 .

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

Victoria's Secret gift cards. Who doesn't wanna feel sexy?

Seriously all they need to do is show the game as it is being developed. I'm confident whatever awesome CGI trailer they devise will probably work in equal measure.

[cJohnOne]

I'm thinking they got Origins and thought, I know what that is. And didn't need to get the sequel.

[Steppenwolf]

Plaintiff wrote...
I'm not saying that nobody liked Origins, unlike you, claiming that everybody loved it.

I'm not going to have a discussion with someone who can't stop himself from telling lies to put words in my mouth.

[Plaintiff]

BasilKarlo wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...
I'm not saying that nobody liked Origins, unlike you, claiming that everybody loved it.

I'm not going to have a discussion with someone who can't stop himself from telling lies to put words in my mouth.

But it's perfectly okay for you to put lies in anyone else's mouth! It's only hypocrisy when other people do it, right?

Or maybe I'm giving you too much credit and you just didn't have any idea what I was actually saying.

[gangly369]

I really don't think that the ability to mod are what drove people away from DA2, nor do I think that putting in a toolkit will drive a significant amount of people back to the game. It probably has to do more with the fact that DA2 was rushed, which led to things such as a lack of diversity in dungeons, the lack of places to go to, the lack of impact with the decisions we made as Hawke, and a storyline that failed in its final act (I'm looking at you Orsino).

For myself, I'm here for the story Bioware creates. Even if I had a toolkit, that sort of stuff would just be icing on the cake, a neat little thing if I was bored. But it wouldn't make me want to buy a game simply because it was there, just like how it wouldn't turn me away from a game if the toolkit was absent.

[Chibi Elemental]

I would love to have a toolkit, I used mods I and some mods were designed to fix bugs in the game that never got fixed by the dev themselves. Now a toolkit on release would be nice but if I remember correctly a toolkit for Fallout 3 came out after the game was released, that would be fine with me as well. Now will it get you more sales? yes it will, look at fall out 3 some people did not buy it till the toolkit was released, there are some people who just like to tinker, now does that have anything to do with the people who did not buy da2 some sure not all that is a blanket and loaded statement, will it get you sales defiantly, even if it is released at a later date.

[Sanunes]

BasilKarlo wrote...

FINE HERE wrote...

... How?

Several RPG developers, including Bethesda and CD Projekt, say that modding extends the life of their games.

Even BioWare has said that, but I am too lazy tonight to find the quote.

The thing is cost versus reward and the cost could be astronomical and could easily double the cost for the game for they would have to spend time developing new tools so they could hand them out to players otherwise they are rushed and probably extremely buggy.  The other issue could be simply not enough people buy the PC version of the game, we don't have the real numbers of total sales, but if the consoles are the more popular choice for people to buy the game it would make sense that they develop more content that those platforms can use.

[AtreiyaN7]

The only people I think this would attract are the ones who are into modding - which I somehow doubt constitutes a really large percentage of the people who didn't buy DA2. I do not believe that plopping in a toolkit will suddenly bring 2 million-plus people rejoining the fold to buy DA3 (EDIT: just to be clear - I know you said some, but the real issue is bringing in larger numbers than just some).

Things such as the recycled environments and excessive use of enemy waves in DA2 are examples of issues that annoyed people. Modding would be a nice addition that would extend the life of the game and give people a creative outlet, but I just don't see it as a major, maaaaaaajor attraction. BioWare need to make darned sure that the base game can stand on its own.

Also, there's no guarantee that any hypothetical DA3 toolkit will actually be easy to use.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 15 mai 2013 - 06:17 .

[metatheurgist]

Plaintiff wrote...
You know, typically, when a sequel underperforms, it means there were people who didn't like the previous installment.

Can't speak for anyone else but I didn't buy DA2 because I didn't like what I saw during the buildup to release. I was hoping for another DAO and all indications were that that wasn't what I would be getting. Everything I read about it since release seems to have confirmed my position. Now I'm back again reading the boards to see if I can determine what sort of game we're getting. If we're getting something like DAO I'll be putting my money down, if it's more like DA2, then I'll be back in another 2-3 years to see what the future brings.

[Realmzmaster]

A toolkit is not that easy to make. Bioware was able to include the toolkit for DAO because all of the tools Bioware used to make DAO were made by Bioware.

DA2 was made with a good deal of third party software creation tools. Bioware does not have the right (license) or ability to release those tools to gamers. Therefore to create a toolkit that gamers could use would require more work and money that benefits only a small minority.

Modders makes up a very small percentage of the overall fanbase. PC sales are dwarfed by console sales. Most mods cannot be used on the consoles.Those can be used must first be developed on a PC and then moved over to the consoles not a trivial task. Even given the next generation of consoles you will see very few mods for consoles.

Mods extend the life of TES games but only on the PC. I doubt console gamers would want to see effort placed into a tookit if it affected inclusion of more content into the version they play since they would receive no benefit from a toolkit.

[erohakase]

I recently re-played the last REALLY good RPG. Guess what, that game had/has a quite large modscene and it was released almost 13 years ago. I tried playing a game that BioWare supposedly said they were looking at for ideas without modding it and I was absolutely astonished at how mediocre that game is without mods. Mods really do carry that game from a 5/10 to a 9/10 in my book.

While modding support isn't "necessary" to make a good game last longer/sell better it definitely doesn't hurt. If DA2 had more modding tools available I imagine some of the flaws of the game could be done away with.

If the base game is as rich in content and character customization as Origins was the need for a toolkit is lowered.

[Ieldra]

OP, I'd rather they make a game as good as DAO. I'm replaying DAO at the moment, and it makes me cry to see how much was lost in DA2, slow combat animations (which was only an issue for shield-and-sword and two-handed warriors anyway) notwithstanding. So much variety, so many little details....and so much more compelling characters (DA2's weren't bad, but much more simplistic). All those little sidequests like "An Unlikely Scholar" which made the world so much more alive than the meaningless fetch quests in DA2. Also, the origin stories made your characters feel different throughout a playthrough, even though they didn't affect the story except in a few details.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 mai 2013 - 07:54 .

[Examurai]

@StreetMagic People can be stupid and ignorant. If the truth comes out and its not the truth THEY want to hear, they completely ignore it.