575 réponses à ce sujet

[LinksOcarina]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'd honestly wonder if the same people who aren't savvy enough to turn off behavior monitoring software are also not the type of people who complete games...?

Just a thought.

I'm one of those people who is not savvy enough to turn it off.

I just don't give a damn in the long run though. 

[Fast Jimmy]

LinksOcarina wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I'd honestly wonder if the same people who aren't savvy enough to turn off behavior monitoring software are also not the type of people who complete games...?

Just a thought.

I'm one of those people who is not savvy enough to turn it off.

I just don't give a damn in the long run though. 

Could that same "don't give a damn" mindset result in players not completing every game they may enjoy?

SPECULATIONS!

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

Nay I say those who eschew data collection on the principle of it are clearly paranoid and don't trust bioware at all, while true fans turn on the data collection even harder because they want to have their style of play represented as loudly as possible for consideration for future bioware projects.

Or, you know, are console players not connected to the Internet. 

[Fast Jimmy]

StreetMagic wrote...

I turned it on because it uploaded my character profile. Figured that was nifty to have.

Perhaps they've planted some monitor into my Xbox.. and it traveled through my home datastream, planted invisible cameras everwhere, and managed to get footage of me taking a shower somehow. Oh well.

I don't mind companies gathering info on me, honestly. Bioware, Google, Time Warner... go to town. If my buying and behavioral habits are monitored and things I like are either made to suit me or I am informed earlier about them, awesome. 

But I don't trust the security of the web for that information to stay in the hands of those who I could benefit from. Origin Or Steam might be able to monitor what choices you make in game... but they can also hold your credit card information of you make a purchase there, or include your mailing address or other information to steal your identity. 

I've dealt with identity fraud and other crimes in the past. It is NOT fun. So taking little steps to avoid your digital footprint may reduce the risk, even by a small amount. 

[Fast Jimmy]

Filament wrote...

That cuts across all groups unless you contend that console players not connected to the internet are "more savvy." lol.

Well, I didn't say that was the case. 

I'm no statistician, but I'd be willing to bet there might be a confirmation bias in play if you are only collecting data for people who, say, don't mind paying the X amount of dollars per year to be active on XBox Live. Maybe those players are more hardcore gamers and have higher completion rates? Maybe they are more the CoD/Halo crowd and don't enjoy SP campaigns as a rule, playing more MP instead? Or maybe there is no difference. 

I don't know. But I really do not put much stock in data collected by this type of digital sampling. Too many factors and ways the data could be parsed out that give a drastically unrepresentative picture of what is actually going on. 

[Fast Jimmy]

StreetMagic wrote...

Fair enough. I'm mostly an Xbox gamer, and I don't use Steam or Origin. Last time I opened steam though, it seemed to have a pretty good security process. Origin is so tight they don't even let you change email addresses (which is frustrating. Partly why I'm using a newish account right here. I had a hard time consolidating game data and a new email address).

Yeah, but the security processes they make you, as an individual, go through, work only to keep your individual account secure. The real threat is outside influences getting access to direct lines for entire groups or populations. This happens more often than you would think is possible. 

I've worked with systems with 164 bit encryption software that had to pass inspection by both the CIA and the NSA on a regular interval. I don't know much about such security aspects, but even with that level, there would still be fire alarms where it wasn't sure if there were breaches (to my knowledge, there never was). Still, it just goes to show that even high-level security systems are far from safe, let alone immune, to those who want access to your info. 

[Shaigunjoe]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Filament wrote...

That cuts across all groups unless you contend that console players not connected to the internet are "more savvy." lol.

Well, I didn't say that was the case. 

I'm no statistician, but I'd be willing to bet there might be a confirmation bias in play if you are only collecting data for people who, say, don't mind paying the X amount of dollars per year to be active on XBox Live. Maybe those players are more hardcore gamers and have higher completion rates? Maybe they are more the CoD/Halo crowd and don't enjoy SP campaigns as a rule, playing more MP instead? Or maybe there is no difference. 

I don't know. But I really do not put much stock in data collected by this type of digital sampling. Too many factors and ways the data could be parsed out that give a drastically unrepresentative picture of what is actually going on. 

Is data not collected on silver members?

[ejoslin]

 I brought this up in another thread today, but it seems germaine here.  I would like to know how "finished the game" is actually defined.  Here is an achievement listing of over 60k xbox players.  On it, it says that fewer than 10% of the players actually finished the game.  Yet 45% slayed the arch demon after doing the dark ritual and 37% did the ultimate sacrifice.  Obviously, there could be some overlap between the two of them, but at least 45% (and most likely more as 51% got the "save more than 50% at the Denerim Gates" achievement) did the final battle, yet the great majority of players who killed the arch demon are not counted as having completed the game.

Puzzling.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mai 2013 - 01:11 .

[ejoslin]

No, go to the site. It says 9.63% have finished the game. There must be a trigger somewhere AFTER the arch demon that triggers that (maybe the post-game save -- no clue) but obviously, FAR more people finished the game than is being credited there which is why I wondered what "finishing the game" means, because it obviously happens after the arch demon is killed.

[ejoslin]

EntropicAngel wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

 I brought this up in another thread today, but it seems germaine here.  I would like to know how "finished the game" is actually defined.  Here is an achievement listing of over 60k xbox players.  On it, it says that fewer than 10% of the players actually finished the game.  Yet 45% slayed the arch demon after doing the dark ritual and 37% did the ultimate sacrifice.  Obviously, there could be some overlap between the two of them, but at least 45% (and most likely more as 51% got the "save more than 50% at the Denerim Gates" achievement) did the final battle, yet the great majority of players who killed the arch demon are not counted as having completed the game.

Puzzling.

From following the link for the number of "completed" games, it looks like that's actually talking about 100%-ing the game.

No, because following that link shows that not everyone on that list have all the achievements -- most on it do not.

ETA: On the first page, only one person out of 100 has all 76 achievements.  I'm not going to go through to look at the other 5k+, but it's probably about the same.

Another edit: Actually, you may be right.  Some of the lower numbers just could be from people who have fewer DLCs therefore fewer achievements.  If so, well, my rant here makes little sense.

I also realized that this group of people would most likely have a higher-than-usual game completion rate.  If you actually sign up for a site like this and have your data loaded to it (no idea how that works) you most likely will not only complete the game, but get as many trophies as possible.

Okay, ummm, yeh, I feel stupid now

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mai 2013 - 01:41 .

[Solmanian]

I don't think bioware actually lost any potential customers. I can tell, because all the people that claim that bioware has "lost" them still sit around in the ME3 forums (more than a year after release) still telling people how they will never buy an EAware game.
It's like telling your GF that you want to break up but still not moving out just so you could tell her everyday how happy you are that you're not together.

[ejoslin]

Solmanian wrote...

I don't think bioware actually lost any potential customers. I can tell, because all the people that claim that bioware has "lost" them still sit around in the ME3 forums (more than a year after release) still telling people how they will never buy an EAware game.
It's like telling your GF that you want to break up but still not moving out just so you could tell her everyday how happy you are that you're not together.

Oh, I don't think the customers they lost would be here on the forums, though.  We're a very small number of people compared to overall players.  A few thousand at most.

[Ihatebadgames]

Look at the old 4000+ pages of "we can't get the ending we want".Alot of people are not here.Back then alot of polls hated or were against the endings me3,now the last one I looked at anyway was pro me3 ending.Means a lot of customers have left the boards or don't care anymore.

[Nightdragon8]

the problem i have is, what are those numbers based on... I mean, in my case, for every comlpete run i have for a char I have at least 10 that i have never completed nor wish to complete, and for small stuiped things like, I don't think this person fighting style matchs the actions in words.

I mean dumb stuff like that, then there are times when I start a run and get side tracked with friends in another game, and then when I do come back, I'm just not feeling the character anymore.

[Get Magna Carter]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Sure, but I suspect you're probably playing those games for a lot longer than, say, 9 hours or so. Am I correct?

There's a difference between our games and Bethesda's games.

Every Bioware game I've played (SWKOTOR, JE, ME. DAO, ME2, DA2 and ME3) has taken longer than 9 hours..at least 40 (corrected typo), usually longer.
IIRC Dragon Age: origins was the longest (update -I checked - it was at 65 hours) which could be the reason why the completion rate was so low compared to other games.
So if Bioware wants to maximise completion rates making games shorter could be a way to do it.
Just not a good way to do it.

Of course, I'm a console gamer with no home broadband so Bioware hasn't got any of my stats - and I can't register my ME3 or post on any ME3 board (even general discussion so I'll ask the question below here).

One thing that puzzled me about the ME3 metrics is they seem to suggest people have only played the game once - does anyone know if this means
1) the stats are for each playthrough rather than each player?
2) the stats only cover each player's first playthrough?
3) less than 1% of players have played the game more than once?

Modifié par Get Magna Carter, 27 mai 2013 - 11:56 .

[Allan Schumacher]

I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying Bioware games usually only are played for nine hours? Or it only takes nine hours to beat?

9 hours could also just be a number. BioWare's games are a lot more linear than Skyrim's, with a more focused (and more interesting, in my opinion) narrative to go along with it. It's not even really possible to play DAO for hundreds and hundreds of hours without beating the game, whereas in Bethesda's game you can.

As such, game completion is probably not very interesting piece of telemetry for them.

[Boycott Bioware]

Make the story longer and not scene by scene

In DA:O it still follow KotOR style, each places to visit have own story (Orzamar, Dalish, Circle Tower, Redcliff) and their own side quests

In DA2, hard to say, the story is only 3 in my opinion (Act 1-3), places to visit are just to kill kill kill die die die then return to base/Kirkwall

DA2 is shorter than DA:O

In DA:O when we go to new places it is kind of "refreshing", for example when we go to Orzamar (as non-Dwarf character) it is an "alien" place and it have its own story that not attached to what happening outside (the Blight and Civil War), so we surf into this new world, explore it and get involved in things.

So to make DA3 can be played 100+ hours i suggest maintain KotOR style travel to places but those places are BIG with their own cultures, story, quests and places to explore...not just one map or two like previous games

[cJohnOne]

I'd say to bring back fans they should be more like Origins but that wouldn't be orginal enough for me to say that.