360 réponses à ce sujet

[Tootles FTW]

I've played DA2 at least six or seven times, and I honestly don't remember Cullen being "Kill all the mages!" at any point in the game. In fact, my memory recalls him being sympathetic but stern for the most part - treating mages kindly, but as one might kindly treat a tiger in captivity: you feed & shelter it, but you don't let it out or turn your back on it.
Of course this is a huge civil rights issue & I understand the horrid implications of treating human beings this way, but within a fantasy setting where demonic possessions can and do occur (especially in Kirkwall, dear gawd) I can bend my real-life opinions to see the logic in Cullen's reasoning. Still might not like it, but I understand it.

I found Anders' direct opposite viewpoint as being a thousand times less tolerant than Cullen's.

[brushyourteeth]

Tootles FTW wrote...

*snip*

I found Anders' direct opposite viewpoint as being a thousand times less tolerant than Cullen's.

You are... so brave for posting this.

Now duck before the projectiles start flying. 

[garrusfan1]

I agree with this totally. and you forgot the argument he has when hawk says not all mages are bad when cullen basically pulls the maybe they all don't want to offend the maker with their presence. when I heard that I was like WTF they are born with it and many would give their magic up if they could (being tranquil doesn't count for giving up magic).

[garrusfan1]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

*snip*

I found Anders' direct opposite viewpoint as being a thousand times less tolerant than Cullen's.

You are... so brave for posting this.

Now duck before the projectiles start flying. 

well to be fair anders was just annoying with the poor mages poor mages. the mages have it bad but he needed to let up a bit about talking about it. also his was against templars and to be fair most are  anti mage to a point (not to meredith neccesarily but a little bit) and I said  most not all

[brushyourteeth]

garrusfan1 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

*snip*

I found Anders' direct opposite viewpoint as being a thousand times less tolerant than Cullen's.

You are... so brave for posting this.

Now duck before the projectiles start flying. 

well to be fair anders was just annoying with the poor mages poor mages. the mages have it bad but he needed to let up a bit about talking about it. also his was against templars and to be fair most are  anti mage to a point (not to meredith neccesarily but a little bit) and I said  most not all

Yeah, I'd say I agree with all of the above.

When you talk about agreeing with the original post, though -- I guess that confuses me. Do you agree that you don't like Cullen either? Or do you agree that there's nothing likeable about him that would make it make sense for other people to like him?

Because, as others have said, DA has a track record of super flawed and discussion-worthy (I won't say controversial) companions. Cullen would be in good company with a sweet little thing that used to seduce and kill people and then turned religious and wouldn't shut up about it, a remorseless assassin, the murderer of an innocent family who admits that he plans to return and conquer Ferelden, etc. etc. Next to all those, Cullen doesn't seem like such an unusual choice.

Plus, as LolaLei has said -- everyone should get the opportunity to kill or dismiss him (if he's even a companion). Problem soved.

I think this whole discussion is confusing because some of us are talking about what makes Cullen an interesting character and a potentially useful companion --- while others of us are just talking about how much Templars suck.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 16 mai 2013 - 04:53 .

[HurricaneGinger]

esper wrote...

PhantomGinger wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

esper: See, that's where I feel the writing falls flat. Let's look at it from a pro-mage game to save confusion:

Meredith already said that anyone who supports the mages dies etc, Cullen would have (in theory) heard that, yet when Meredith threatens to kill Hawke he seems genuinely surprised that she was lying to him and actually intended to kill Hawke rather than just arrest him/her.

To me that seems like a script/dialogue inconsistency because he would've heard Meredith originally say that she intended to kill all the mages and their supporters.

I agree, the writing does fall a bit flat concerning a pro-mage Hawke. Cullen does support arresting Hawke, but killing her? I think he may have seen this as an overextension of a templar's duty? I'd wonder if the writing went further and Hawke was a mage, would Cullen support killing her as well, or defending her?

Sorry for the late answer, but I really had to go to bed.

First off we can't really see it only from the pro-mage perspective, because the pro-templar is actually worse since Cullen apperently already have agreed to let Meridith arrest a supporter. There is really no excuse to that.

Any I don't see it as wrong writing necessarily. But I see Cullen's character differently. I see Cullen as someone who is pretty good at surving. At the cost of others if need be. In fact in retro-perspective you have to question why he was the only Templar in that cage in da:o.

As far as I see it Cullen broke doing the circle in Ferelden. He doesn't go against Meridith because she has higher authority than him and does something part of him (due to trauma) wants to do to (even if he knows she is going too far). That is cracking pretty hard down on the mages. However, if when she turns her sword on any Hawke it is pretty clear that she is losing her sanity, signs which Cullen properly regonize (again his past experience) and so he simply mutters a vague excuse and shift side as fast as he can.

Is the only logical reason for all scenerios for Cullen to side against Meridith. Namely: He does it to get out alive. I could maybe forgive him for it, if he just didn't tried to pass it off as if he shift side because Meridith wants to kill Hawke.

Hmm, you may be right and you bring up a good point, but I respectfully disagree.  Though I do agree that Cullen is good at surviving the near impossible; I think it is his training and fear of magic that makes him extremely determined to survive.

I'm kinda fond of the brain washing idea. It makes all kinds of sense that I didn't consider before. Though, I do agree that he recognized that Meredith was going nuts and he thought enough was enough. And if he let MageHawke go, he is simply giving her a head start...or his PTSD kicked in and a huge resounding "NOPE" went through his head. 

garrusfan1 wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

*snip*

I found Anders' direct opposite viewpoint as being a thousand times less tolerant than Cullen's.

You are... so brave for posting this.

Now duck before the projectiles start flying.  

well to be fair anders was just annoying with the poor mages poor mages. the mages have it bad but he needed to let up a bit about talking about it. also his was against templars and to be fair most are  anti mage to a point (not to meredith neccesarily but a little bit) and I said  most not all

Haha, as an Anders fan I totally understand! After playing the game so much I just want to tape his mouth shut sometimes. I've taken to rivalmancing him as payback.  It's a lot more fun, anyways.

[R2s Muse]

legbamel wrote...

I always got the impression that Cullen was very devout. While he was scared witless of mages he's likely just as disillusioned with the Templars after what happened in Kirkwall where everyone got to show their worst possible sides. I can see him heading for the Chantry and the Divine because they're the only ones who haven't tried to kill him, yet.

Really, the poor man gets trapped in a ****storm everywhere he goes. Maybe he'll jusr throw up his hands and go see if he can't recover some land around Lothering to farm. If he's in DA:I he's going to be right in the thick of a bad situation again no matter what side he chooses.

These are all scenarios I could see happening. If he shows up in DA3, in the middle of yet another world-threatening crisis, he's got to have some of the worst luck in Thedas!  One thing I like about his arc in DA2 is that he comes to a point where he's made up his own mind about what the Order stands for. Then, bam, 9:40, Nevarran Accord broken, mission statement of the Order changes. He could indeed feel like the rug has been pulled out from under him. Does he run to Val Royeaux and serve the Divine directly? Does he go drunken!Alistair and drown his sorrows? Does he quit the Order and go back to Ferelden to farm shrubs? Did he get thrown in jail/dishonorably discharged after his insubordination with Meredith? It'll be interesting to see.

And, as I've heard several times recently, it would be kind of a kick to see him say, "To the Void with this!" and just quit the templar biz. LOL

[HurricaneGinger]

R2s Muse wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I always got the impression that Cullen was very devout. While he was scared witless of mages he's likely just as disillusioned with the Templars after what happened in Kirkwall where everyone got to show their worst possible sides. I can see him heading for the Chantry and the Divine because they're the only ones who haven't tried to kill him, yet.

Really, the poor man gets trapped in a ****storm everywhere he goes. Maybe he'll jusr throw up his hands and go see if he can't recover some land around Lothering to farm. If he's in DA:I he's going to be right in the thick of a bad situation again no matter what side he chooses.

These are all scenarios I could see happening. If he shows up in DA3, in the middle of yet another world-threatening crisis, he's got to have some of the worst luck in Thedas!  One thing I like about his arc in DA2 is that he comes to a point where he's made up his own mind about what the Order stands for. Then, bam, 9:40, Nevarran Accord broken, mission statement of the Order changes. He could indeed feel like the rug has been pulled out from under him. Does he run to Val Royeaux and serve the Divine directly? Does he go drunken!Alistair and drown his sorrows? Does he quit the Order and go back to Ferelden to farm shrubs? Did he get thrown in jail/dishonorably discharged after his insubordination with Meredith? It'll be interesting to see.

And, as I've heard several times recently, it would be kind of a kick to see him say, "To the Void with this!" and just quit the templar biz. LOL

Shirtless horsewasher anyone?!  

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I always got the impression that Cullen was very devout. While he was scared witless of mages he's likely just as disillusioned with the Templars after what happened in Kirkwall where everyone got to show their worst possible sides. I can see him heading for the Chantry and the Divine because they're the only ones who haven't tried to kill him, yet.

Really, the poor man gets trapped in a ****storm everywhere he goes. Maybe he'll jusr throw up his hands and go see if he can't recover some land around Lothering to farm. If he's in DA:I he's going to be right in the thick of a bad situation again no matter what side he chooses.

These are all scenarios I could see happening. If he shows up in DA3, in the middle of yet another world-threatening crisis, he's got to have some of the worst luck in Thedas!  One thing I like about his arc in DA2 is that he comes to a point where he's made up his own mind about what the Order stands for. Then, bam, 9:40, Nevarran Accord broken, mission statement of the Order changes. He could indeed feel like the rug has been pulled out from under him. Does he run to Val Royeaux and serve the Divine directly? Does he go drunken!Alistair and drown his sorrows? Does he quit the Order and go back to Ferelden to farm shrubs? Did he get thrown in jail/dishonorably discharged after his insubordination with Meredith? It'll be interesting to see.

And, as I've heard several times recently, it would be kind of a kick to see him say, "To the Void with this!" and just quit the templar biz. LOL

Farming shrubs? Who would he sell them to, Orlesian landscapers? 

[Cainhurst Crow]

I wouldn't personally want him on my team, mainly because I feel hes just a bland alistar, and that just sounds doubely bad.

[R2s Muse]

PhantomGinger wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I always got the impression that Cullen was very devout. While he was scared witless of mages he's likely just as disillusioned with the Templars after what happened in Kirkwall where everyone got to show their worst possible sides. I can see him heading for the Chantry and the Divine because they're the only ones who haven't tried to kill him, yet.

Really, the poor man gets trapped in a ****storm everywhere he goes. Maybe he'll jusr throw up his hands and go see if he can't recover some land around Lothering to farm. If he's in DA:I he's going to be right in the thick of a bad situation again no matter what side he chooses.

These are all scenarios I could see happening. If he shows up in DA3, in the middle of yet another world-threatening crisis, he's got to have some of the worst luck in Thedas!  One thing I like about his arc in DA2 is that he comes to a point where he's made up his own mind about what the Order stands for. Then, bam, 9:40, Nevarran Accord broken, mission statement of the Order changes. He could indeed feel like the rug has been pulled out from under him. Does he run to Val Royeaux and serve the Divine directly? Does he go drunken!Alistair and drown his sorrows? Does he quit the Order and go back to Ferelden to farm shrubs? Did he get thrown in jail/dishonorably discharged after his insubordination with Meredith? It'll be interesting to see.

And, as I've heard several times recently, it would be kind of a kick to see him say, "To the Void with this!" and just quit the templar biz. LOL

Shirtless horsewasher anyone?!  

LOL Ssssh... we don't hypothesize about the shirtless horsewashing outside of our crazy Cullen thread cabal... Gag Order 66...

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I always got the impression that Cullen was very devout. While he was scared witless of mages he's likely just as disillusioned with the Templars after what happened in Kirkwall where everyone got to show their worst possible sides. I can see him heading for the Chantry and the Divine because they're the only ones who haven't tried to kill him, yet.

Really, the poor man gets trapped in a ****storm everywhere he goes. Maybe he'll jusr throw up his hands and go see if he can't recover some land around Lothering to farm. If he's in DA:I he's going to be right in the thick of a bad situation again no matter what side he chooses.

These are all scenarios I could see happening. If he shows up in DA3, in the middle of yet another world-threatening crisis, he's got to have some of the worst luck in Thedas!  One thing I like about his arc in DA2 is that he comes to a point where he's made up his own mind about what the Order stands for. Then, bam, 9:40, Nevarran Accord broken, mission statement of the Order changes. He could indeed feel like the rug has been pulled out from under him. Does he run to Val Royeaux and serve the Divine directly? Does he go drunken!Alistair and drown his sorrows? Does he quit the Order and go back to Ferelden to farm shrubs? Did he get thrown in jail/dishonorably discharged after his insubordination with Meredith? It'll be interesting to see.

And, as I've heard several times recently, it would be kind of a kick to see him say, "To the Void with this!" and just quit the templar biz. LOL

Farming shrubs? Who would he sell them to, Orlesian landscapers? 

No!  We've no shubberies here...

[brushyourteeth]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I wouldn't personally want him on my team, mainly because I feel hes just a bland alistar, and that just sounds doubely bad.

If he turns out to be a bland Alistair, then I agree -- do not want, Bioware. Do not want.

I don't think DG would make that happen, though. At least not intentionally. His brain would have to be completely tapped for ideas first.

[R2s Muse]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I wouldn't personally want him on my team, mainly because I feel hes just a bland alistar, and that just sounds doubely bad.

If he turns out to be a bland Alistair, then I agree -- do not want, Bioware. Do not want.

I don't think DG would make that happen, though. At least not intentionally. His brain would have to be completely tapped for ideas first.

Indeed, the writers have been pretty specific about not intending to repeat themselves. I would expect that Cullen's character, with all the wide open spaces it has to be filled in, could pretty easily be made a value-added contribution to the DA character vault.

[brushyourteeth]

R2s Muse wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I wouldn't personally want him on my team, mainly because I feel hes just a bland alistar, and that just sounds doubely bad.

If he turns out to be a bland Alistair, then I agree -- do not want, Bioware. Do not want.

I don't think DG would make that happen, though. At least not intentionally. His brain would have to be completely tapped for ideas first.

Indeed, the writers have been pretty specific about not intending to repeat themselves. I would expect that Cullen's character, with all the wide open spaces it has to be filled in, could pretty easily be made a value-added contribution to the DA character vault.

Not to mention that after "possessed," "PTSD" seems pretty reasonable.

I remember reading the first descriptions for Anders/Justice as a companion/LI for DAII and just thinking "eeeeew." Granted, part of that might have been that I can't get the image of Kristoff's rotting corpse out of my head.

[LolaLei]

PhantomGinger wrote...

R2s Muse wrote...

legbamel wrote...

I always got the impression that Cullen was very devout. While he was scared witless of mages he's likely just as disillusioned with the Templars after what happened in Kirkwall where everyone got to show their worst possible sides. I can see him heading for the Chantry and the Divine because they're the only ones who haven't tried to kill him, yet.

Really, the poor man gets trapped in a ****storm everywhere he goes. Maybe he'll jusr throw up his hands and go see if he can't recover some land around Lothering to farm. If he's in DA:I he's going to be right in the thick of a bad situation again no matter what side he chooses.

These are all scenarios I could see happening. If he shows up in DA3, in the middle of yet another world-threatening crisis, he's got to have some of the worst luck in Thedas!  One thing I like about his arc in DA2 is that he comes to a point where he's made up his own mind about what the Order stands for. Then, bam, 9:40, Nevarran Accord broken, mission statement of the Order changes. He could indeed feel like the rug has been pulled out from under him. Does he run to Val Royeaux and serve the Divine directly? Does he go drunken!Alistair and drown his sorrows? Does he quit the Order and go back to Ferelden to farm shrubs? Did he get thrown in jail/dishonorably discharged after his insubordination with Meredith? It'll be interesting to see.

And, as I've heard several times recently, it would be kind of a kick to see him say, "To the Void with this!" and just quit the templar biz. LOL

Shirtless horsewasher anyone?!  

Bwahahaha, that never gets old! 

[Dave of Canada]

Tootles FTW wrote...

I've played DA2 at least six or seven times, and I honestly don't remember Cullen being "Kill all the mages!" at any point in the game.

If you cough in the general direction of a mage, you're commiting genocide and should be killed to death.

[Gregolian]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

I've played DA2 at least six or seven times, and I honestly don't remember Cullen being "Kill all the mages!" at any point in the game.

If you cough in the general direction of a mage, you're commiting genocide and should be killed to death.

[Tootles FTW]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Tootles FTW wrote...

I've played DA2 at least six or seven times, and I honestly don't remember Cullen being "Kill all the mages!" at any point in the game.

If you cough in the general direction of a mage, you're commiting genocide and should be killed to death.

To death?  Do I not even get the "or cake" option? 

[lulu2011]

I'm interested in Cullen (although admittedly not from an LI standpoint) because in DAO he starts off, albeit a templar, one quite sympathetic to mages - by the end the experiences he's gone through have pushed him to some quite extreme views. Then in DA2 he sees someone with these extreme views, and by the end he's experienced the opposite changes - moving from support of Meredith to (especially if you side with the Templars at the end) and opposing her extreme ways. So I think it could be interesting to get his perspective in DAI and see the ramifications for his character development.

[brushyourteeth]

lulu2011 wrote...

I'm interested in Cullen (although admittedly not from an LI standpoint) because in DAO he starts off, albeit a templar, one quite sympathetic to mages - by the end the experiences he's gone through have pushed him to some quite extreme views. Then in DA2 he sees someone with these extreme views, and by the end he's experienced the opposite changes - moving from support of Meredith to (especially if you side with the Templars at the end) and opposing her extreme ways. So I think it could be interesting to get his perspective in DAI and see the ramifications for his character development.

I agree. I think Cullen saw what a hot mess Meredith was and realized he was on the road to becoming that if he didn't do something about it.

... if I were him I really wouldn't want anything to do with mages or templars for awhile. 

[legbamel]

I was thinking about the fact that, before the last moments od DA2, Cullen had agreed to arrest you. That has long bothered me on pro-Templar runs. Then I thought, "It's not like the magistrates would have convicted the Champion of whatever trumped up charge Meredith brought anyway." It's possible that Cullen could have relied on the same concept, thus explaining why it took Meredith trying to kill Hawke to get him to finally give up the last dregs of his waning support for her.

Naturally, that's all headcanon but at least it explains why he'd agree to arresting a supporter better than the game itself does.

[Gamer Ftw]

I never understood how anyone who played a female in origins could like Cullen.
His mage crush is just sooo creepy.
Very glad I only play males.
I watched one of my friends play it and by the end everyone who was there was calling him creepy Cullen.
I mean he is a Templar who has to watch you at all time with his creepy eyes,while you bath or sleep.
Shudder.
And in one ending he slaughters apprentices,What do you think he would have done if he got a crush on another mage during the insane mage hate phase?
Probably violated and killed her.
And in DA2 he was still there even though he murdered mages.
Depending on your playthrough.
But he is obviously unstable,I think he always was.

Modifié par Gamer Ftw, 16 mai 2013 - 09:23 .