Commander Kurt wrote...
But that discussion is different, you're talking about whether or not her actions are justified. We can discuss that in regards to Cullen chopping up mages who have turned abomination, certainly, but the issue was with him dehumanizing those he might be forced to slaughter.
Well, for what it's worth, I think Morrigan
does recognize the humanity of others, though she may not like to admit it. Her view is very... I would say Nietzsche-ian, but I'm not a philosophy buff, so don't quote me on that.
She recognizes that the value of life is subjective, and nobody inherently "deserves" to live. You have to be willing to do what it takes to keep your life for as long as possible, and if you fail, then that's just tough. That's not necessarily dehumanizing, that's just acknowledging that the world of Thedas is a cold, harsh and unfair place, and if you want to sruvive, you have to be prepared to do what it takes.
But I don't think that makes Morrigan necessarily uncaring. It's possible to have such a philosophy and still have empathy for others. Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Morrigan is a callous person. She is pragmatic, however, and concerned primarily with her own survival. She wouldn't go out of her way to help you, but neither would she kill you if you weren't a threat. Which is fair enough.
I specified instances where Hawke actively seeks out the killing, I'm actually pretty sure you noticed (I know you're smart). Still, the issue above stands. The actions may be justified, but are bandits regarded as people in the DA world? Yes, you can roleplay someone who does care. Do you?
I don't think on it overmuch while I'm actually playing. I don't think I play Hawke as someone who would kill unnecessarily. Although I
do take every side-quest, so maybe that makes me a hypocrite.
Generally, when the option to spare someone is available, I take it, unless I feel they are irredeemable (in the case of Feynriel's captors, or the Arishok), or if I feel killing them would be merciful (in the case of what's-his-face, the magistrate's son), or if the murder scene looks really badass (Feynriel's captors again, but only when playing a Rogue sadly).
His actions I know nothing about, his attitude is easier to discuss. His unability to empathise is not hinged on his seeing mages as people, surely? I once cried for a lonely lamp in an IKEA commercial after all.
Well, he may be able to empathise with people generally, but he can't empathise with mages. Being unable to empathise with
most groups or individuals is, I feel, a problem (there are some groups that do not deserve empathy, like the KKK or neo-****s). I have a friend who can't empathise much with women, for example, and we clash often over this. Luckily, he doesn't work with women or have much contact with women at all.
Cullen's inability to empathise with mages is bad, but it would be
less bad if he wasn't in a position of authority over them. But he is.
His attitude that mages are not people is a bad thing, I agree, but can you see mages as persons and do the job he does? I understand your point, and you're right. It would be so much better for all if templars could see and treat mages as equals, but is that humanly possible?
All templars? No. Every system will have exceptions.
I think it is possible, very difficult, but
possible to create a system where the majority of Templars are able to empathise with mages. The root of the problem is that "Us vs Them" mentality that the Chantry engenders not only in its Templars, but in every human it can reach.
In order for the Circle to reach what I would deem an acceptable standard, and engender a more empathetic mindset in the Templars enmasse, we would first need to do a complete overhaul of the way mages and magic are viewed in society. That would likely take years, and might never happen.
Concentration camp guards are probably the best comparison we can make (NOT because of the morality of the task performed, but because of the actions the guards are required to undertake), and seeing the "inmates" as human would probably wear off quickly in such a profession. It would have to, for you to do your job and keep your sanity.
Well, concentration camp guards still aren't a
great comparison. Their entire job was to eventually kill every one of the residents of the camp, whereas in an ideal Circle, nobody would be getting murdered.
Realisitically of course, there will always be a few terrible people on both sides of the fence, and Templars will on occasion be forced to kill mages in self-defense. I feel like getting rid of the dehumanizing techniques of the Chantry would go a long way towards preventing unnecessary killings, however. That means the Templars and the Circle need to becomes a secular organization.
Mages and Templars should be encouraged to communicate with each other and form friendships. Templars are
not prison guards, and mages are
not inmates. Neither should be in a position of authority over the other, they are colleagues, working together for mutual benefit. Also, mages should be able to work as Templars if they choose. I feel this would help to foster co-operation on both sides.
There also needs to be a stringent system of checks and balances, to make sure that all deaths are
absolutely necessary, and that there was no alternative action that could be taken. If there is
any suspicion of abuse or poor judgement on the part of a Templar, then that should be
thoroughly checked out by some sort of investigative tribunal, comprised of members of both groups (and maybe a neutral third party,
not the Chantry, but a secular organization with no religious leanings regarding magic).
Annulment needs to be done away with completely, or at the very least, there needs to be a strict set of critera laid down to properly define when and how a Circle is "irredeemable". At the moment, all it takes is for a Grand Cleric to
say that it is, which leaves a gap so open for abuse that you could drive an 18-wheeler full rapists through it.
Also, after such a death, grief counselling should be made available. After all, a Templar may just have seen his best mage friend turn into a monster and rip his other mage friends into pieces, and he needs to be able to process that. If there are any doubts at all about a Templar's ability to continue working, then he should be put on paid leave, pending further evaluation, and he may be required to leave permanently. There would need to a be system for helping a fired templar work through his lyrium addiction and adjust to civialian life, but that's a whole other thing.
Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 mai 2013 - 03:44 .
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