360 réponses à ce sujet

[The Hierophant]

Xilizhra wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

I'm not interested in romancing Cullen but I like him just fine and I'm interested in seeing what he becomes in DAI.

I like him because his views on mages are similar to mine. Mages are not people like you and me; they are people but they are different in a way that matters, they are much more dangerous; and it would be irresposible to treat them as if they are just like it would be irresponsible to treat water and acid as if they are the same thing. But that doesn't mean we can't treat them humanely if with extreme caution; Cullen was unsure about the Right of Annulment, for instance.

And I'm interested to see what he becomes in DAI because in DAO he realized how monstruous mages can be; Uldred and his cohorts; but in DAI he then saw that non-mages can be pretty monstruous themselves; Alrik, Karras. So, I'm interested in see what comes out of that.

Well. Allow me to clarify to the OP: the Cullen romancers don't generally overlap with the Pol Pot types.

You mean the majority of the posters clamoring to genocide fictional races due to not liking their ideology, worldview, beliefs etc. as it's offensive to their refined sensibilities?

[brushyourteeth]

Kallimachus wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

I would love to explain my opinion to anyone who I think is actually interested in understanding. But it's obvious from the way your originally civil and intelligent OP deteriorated into arguing (three pages... that escalated quickly) and holocaust references (wtf?) that you're having just as much fun hating this fictional character wrapped in pixels that you accuse others of blindly adoring. So please enjoy yourself, and don't let me get in the way.

If you look carefully I wasn't the one who made the original holocaust comparison, and that in fact in my comment to it I was every bit as surprised by it.

I do not "have fun" hating this character, but I certainly do not like him, and  I never accused anyone of "blindly adoring" him. Please do not confuse me with other posters here.

I am, however, unwilling to accept assertions that are not to be found in the actual "text" (in this case - the game)

When you assert that a character is, in fact, loathsome (which is what all of your arguments have pointed to, and some of them are even fair) but that fans love him anyway and you don't "get it" -- that is, in fact, accusing someone of blind adoration, even if you aren't using those words. The idea is that the fans are delusional. They don't see things the way you do -- it couldn't possibly be that they see something you don't. You ask for help in understanding where they come from, but when some try to explain you immediately counterattack with "that's not in the game." But it is. Re-read the text, play the game again, youtube the Cullen encounters with an open mind, but please don't expect any of us to spend hours compiling evidence when you've clearly made up your mind - and you have every right to. I'm just personally not interested in convincing anyone who isn't open to anyone else's understanding of the game.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to the writers. Do you trust them? Cullen will either be in the game or he will not, but it won't be because any of his fans or detractors made eloquent speeches or threats on the BSN - it will be because the writers think he is interesting and relevant or they think he is not. There were many characters in DAII that didn't do much for me, but DA isn't my baby. Ultimately, it's D-Gaids who decides who Cullen is and if we ever see him again -- in the meantime, the people who do "get it" will keep having a lot of fun talking about what we've seen so far. I think it says something about the power of the writing and the complexity of the mage/Templar issue that even a minor character can hold fans' interest for so long.

[Dominari]

I was always more of a Sir Gilmore fan. I'll take a strong, emotionally centered man over a fixer-upper any day.

[KR4U55]

simfamSP wrote...

Boba-Fett Syndrome.

Haven't read all the thread, but this deserves all the "quotes"/likes!

Anyways, he has powerful reasons to hate all mages, an enchanter, who are suposed to be trustworthy or at least not so easily possesed, murdered almost all the templars in his tower and kept him torturing him for who-knows-how-long for sh*t and giggles.

And then he has to simply obey his commander and see more possible abominations walk free.

In Kirkwall he watches actual blood mages escaping and torturing his fellow templars, putting demons inside them, he's re-living what happened at the fereldean Circle.

Apparently he's also cute, I dunno, I'm a guy. Serious question, is he Merril cute? 'Cause there's only one Merril.

[brushyourteeth]

KR4U55 wrote...

*snip*

Apparently he's also cute, I dunno, I'm a guy. Serious question, is he Merril cute? 'Cause there's only one Merril.

No. Sadly, no one is as cute as Merrill.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 15 mai 2013 - 04:33 .

[R2s Muse]

Commander Kurt wrote...

Why not ask this in the Cullen thread? I asked something similar, and had a very pleasant discussion on the relative hotness of the knight captain.

Nice... See if we share the internet cookies with you again... Interested in talking about something weighty? Then.. um, talk about something weighty. Want to fangirl? We'll also oblige.

Love how this thread evolves into talking about the fans, yet again. Where are the mods when we need them.

[LolaLei]

brushyourteeth wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

I would love to explain my opinion to anyone who I think is actually interested in understanding. But it's obvious from the way your originally civil and intelligent OP deteriorated into arguing (three pages... that escalated quickly) and holocaust references (wtf?) that you're having just as much fun hating this fictional character wrapped in pixels that you accuse others of blindly adoring. So please enjoy yourself, and don't let me get in the way.

If you look carefully I wasn't the one who made the original holocaust comparison, and that in fact in my comment to it I was every bit as surprised by it.

I do not "have fun" hating this character, but I certainly do not like him, and  I never accused anyone of "blindly adoring" him. Please do not confuse me with other posters here.

I am, however, unwilling to accept assertions that are not to be found in the actual "text" (in this case - the game)

When you assert that a character is, in fact, loathsome (which is what all of your arguments have pointed to, and some of them are even fair) but that fans love him anyway and you don't "get it" -- that is, in fact, accusing someone of blind adoration, even if you aren't using those words. The idea is that the fans are delusional. They don't see things the way you do -- it couldn't possibly be that they see something you don't. You ask for help in understanding where they come from, but when some try to explain you immediately counterattack with "that's not in the game." But it is. Re-read the text, play the game again, youtube the Cullen encounters with an open mind, but please don't expect any of us to spend hours compiling evidence when you've clearly made up your mind - and you have every right to. I'm just personally not interested in convincing anyone who isn't open to anyone else's understanding of the game.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to the writers. Do you trust them? Cullen will either be in the game or he will not, but it won't be because any of his fans or detractors made eloquent speeches or threats on the BSN - it will be because the writers think he is interesting and relevant or they think he is not. There were many characters in DAII that didn't do much for me, but DA isn't my baby. Ultimately, it's D-Gaids who decides who Cullen is and if we ever see him again -- in the meantime, the people who do "get it" will keep having a lot of fun talking about what we've seen so far. I think it says something about the power of the writing and the complexity of the mage/Templar issue that even a minor character can hold fans' interest for so long.

Right on! <3

[Kallimachus]

brushyourteeth wrote...
When you assert that a character is, in fact, loathsome (which is what all of your arguments have pointed to, and some of them are even fair) but that fans love him anyway and you don't "get it" -- that is, in fact, accusing someone of blind adoration, even if you aren't using those words. The idea is that the fans are delusional. They don't see things the way you do -- it couldn't possibly be that they see something you don't. You ask for help in understanding where they come from, but when some try to explain you immediately counterattack with "that's not in the game." But it is. Re-read the text, play the game again, youtube the Cullen encounters with an open mind, but please don't expect any of us to spend hours compiling evidence when you've clearly made up your mind - and you have every right to. I'm just personally not interested in convincing anyone who isn't open to anyone else's understanding of the game.

I never hid the fact that I consider him reprehensible. Not because I enjoy hating him (I assure you I do not have a darting board at home with Cullen's face on it, I don't even play darts), but because his own words damn him (and I did bring the quotes in question). The reason I started this thread was that I read the thread about the 5 things you want in DA3 for the first time and was surprised by the number of people who mentioned Cullen as a companion/LI, and because I am so critical of him I really waned to know how others can ignore his own words. I think it is clear from my posts that I am pro-mage and anti-templar, but that does not mean I hate all templar characters.
I think that it is quite clear that people see in Cullen something I do not, and wanting to know what that was is why I started this thread. I do not believe I hold all the intelligence in the world, and when I posted this I was hoping not all Cullen supposters are "blind adorers" (as you pot it). But it is also possible they do not see in him what I do, which is why I posted specific quotes (and I made sure they were as accurate as possible by actually looking for relevant clips on youtube, and transcribing them), that is the only way to substantiate my assertions.
I have never heard the assertions you made (as well as another person on this thread) in the game, and the only relevant arguments are ones within the game. if you are unwilling to provide backing to your claims, I'm afraid we are indeed at an impasse, but not one of my making.

At the end of the day, it all comes down to the writers. Do you trust them? Cullen will either be in the game or he will not, but it won't be because any of his fans or detractors made eloquent speeches or threats on the BSN - it will be because the writers think he is interesting and relevant or they think he is not. There were many characters in DAII that didn't do much for me, but DA isn't my baby. Ultimately, it's D-Gaids who decides who Cullen is and if we ever see him again -- in the meantime, the people who do "get it" will keep having a lot of fun talking about what we've seen so far. I think it says something about the power of the writing and the complexity of the mage/Templar issue that even a minor character can hold fans' interest for so long.

I never threatened anyone, nor is it within my abilities to do so. Other than not buying the game I have no power over EA or Bioware, and I assure you Cullen is not a factor in my decision to buy or not (I currently have every intention to pre-order).

But this thread was not meant to push the writing in any direction (I'm not delusional enough for that), and generally I'm one of those who believe fan influence on the writing should be limited. I honestly wanted to understand, whether you believe me or not.


And finally, "D-Gaids"? Really? Can't say I heard that before!

[edited for typos]

Modifié par Kallimachus, 15 mai 2013 - 04:57 .

[TK514]

Plaintiff wrote...

Well, concentration camp guards still aren't a great comparison. Their entire job was to eventually kill every one of the residents of the camp, whereas in an ideal Circle, nobody would be getting murdered.

Realisitically of course, there will always be a few terrible people on both sides of the fence, and Templars will on occasion be forced to kill mages in self-defense. I feel like getting rid of the dehumanizing techniques of the Chantry would go a long way towards preventing unnecessary killings, however. That means the Templars and the Circle need to becomes a secular organization.

Mages and Templars should be encouraged to communicate with each other and form friendships. Templars are not prison guards, and mages are not inmates. Neither should be in a position of authority over the other, they are colleagues, working together for mutual benefit. Also, mages should be able to work as Templars if they choose. I feel this would help to foster co-operation on both sides.

There also needs to be a stringent system of checks and balances, to make sure that all deaths are absolutely necessary, and that there was no alternative action that could be taken. If there is any suspicion of abuse or poor judgement on the part of a Templar, then that should be thoroughly checked out by some sort of investigative tribunal, comprised of members of both groups (and maybe a neutral third party, not the Chantry, but a secular organization with no religious leanings regarding magic).

Annulment needs to be done away with completely, or at the very least, there needs to be a strict set of critera laid down to properly define when and how a Circle is "irredeemable". At the moment, all it takes is for a Grand Cleric to say that it is, which leaves a gap so open for abuse that you could drive an 18-wheeler full rapists through it.

Also, after such a death, grief counselling should be made available. After all, a Templar may just have seen his best mage friend turn into a monster and rip his other mage friends into pieces, and he needs to be able to process that. If there are any doubts at all about a Templar's ability to continue working, then he should be put on paid leave, pending further evaluation, and he may be required to leave permanently. There would need to a be system for helping a fired templar work through his lyrium addiction and adjust to civialian life, but that's a whole other thing.

Except for the parts about Templars not being prison guards and every death (including full Annulment) requiring justification and oversight, I couldn't disagree more.

Templars are not there to be prison guards, coworkers, friends, drinking buddies, a fourth for bridge, or any other even vaguely social purpose.

Templars have two jobs:

• Protect mages from 'burn the witch' mobs, which the Circle system does adequately via segregation
• Protect everyone from mages who cross the line, willingly or not.

That's it.  They're security for an important resource and a sprinkler system over a fire hazard, and should maintain the same detachment for both.  It would probably be best if the Templars and Mages only saw each other when their respective jobs required it, with certain levels, such as Knight-Commander/First Enchanter having more contact than the rank-and-file.  It's hard to abuse someone they never see, and it makes them better able to carry out their only two jobs.  Templars wouldn't have to dehumanize Mages, any more than any other person who's job is to potentially end the life of another, but they wouldn't become so familiar that conflicts of interest or potentially lethal hesitation due to misplaced empathy would arise.

Having Mages be Templars defeats the entire purpose of the Order.  The reason there needs to be Templars at all is because EVERY Mage, no matter how wise, well trained, experienced or old, is one lapse of will or judgement away from becoming an uncontrolled WMD.  That includes the Mages you would have join the Order.   There is simply no way a Mage Templar could work.

Lastly, there's no reason at all that the Chantry couldn't maintain oversight and investigate claims of misconduct among the Templars.  Internal Affairs are still cops, for example.  It is entirely possible for two members of the same organization to maintain objectivity about each others actions, and pass unbiased judgement on same.

[Vallasch]

TK514 wrote...


Except for the parts about Templars not being prison guards and every death (including full Annulment) requiring justification and oversight, I couldn't disagree more.

Templars are not there to be prison guards, coworkers, friends, drinking buddies, a fourth for bridge, or any other even vaguely social purpose.

Templars have two jobs:

• Protect mages from 'burn the witch' mobs, which the Circle system does adequately via segregation
  
• Protect everyone from mages who cross the line, willingly or not.

That's it.  They're security for an important resource and a sprinkler system over a fire hazard, and should maintain the same detachment for both.  It would probably be best if the Templars and Mages only saw each other when their respective jobs required it, with certain levels, such as Knight-Commander/First Enchanter having more contact than the rank-and-file.  It's hard to abuse someone they never see, and it makes them better able to carry out their only two jobs.  Templars wouldn't have to dehumanize Mages, any more than any other person who's job is to potentially end the life of another, but they wouldn't become so familiar that conflicts of interest or potentially lethal hesitation due to misplaced empathy would arise.

Having Mages be Templars defeats the entire purpose of the Order.  The reason there needs to be Templars at all is because EVERY Mage, no matter how wise, well trained, experienced or old, is one lapse of will or judgement away from becoming an uncontrolled WMD.  That includes the Mages you would have join the Order.   There is simply no way a Mage Templar could work.

Lastly, there's no reason at all that the Chantry couldn't maintain oversight and investigate claims of misconduct among the Templars.  Internal Affairs are still cops, for example.  It is entirely possible for two members of the same organization to maintain objectivity about each others actions, and pass unbiased judgement on same.

Very well said, great post.

For my part, this is the reason i don't like Cullen. He experienced what his job is like at its worst and is no longer able to perform it objectively. Therefor, in my eyes, he's just not qualified for that job and no amount of extra training or emotional fixing will amend that. That he is promoted to a high rank for it by a new boss who is even more extremist only makes it more irksome.

As a mage player, Greigor is the one i have the most respect for. He is completely impartial in his duty.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

I'm kind of interested to see how Cullen would work as a companion; can't speak to his interest as an LI, but that's just my tastes.

Most of that is bound up in the fact that he's one of the few templars to which we've been exposed in any way that reveals his personality, and who's still alive. He's more on the Meredith side than the Gregoir one, which has great potential for interparty conflict, but he also did stand up to her at the finish.

I'd also like to see more exploration of the control the Chantry exercises over templars, and I think Cullen is a great candidate for that. The idea that the templars can be objective in their duties is kind of odd to me - you see it in the games, and in the commentary here, but there's little acknowledgement outside of Alistair in DA:O and the brief aside in Fenris' recruitment quest about the role lyrium addiction plays in the lives of templars and how the Chantry uses it to maintain their standing army. How does that play into their role as protector? What about the Chantry's double standard of mana-use between mages and templars?

I'd really like to see more about that whole relationship, and Cullen's been burned by both sides of the equation. Screwed-up abominations in Ferelden, and a power-mad lyrium poisoned templar with a largely unquestioning army in Kirkwall. Could be very interesting.

[Gregolian]

Kallimachus wrote...

In DA2 he was Knight-Captain, but lived under the tyranny of Meredith. No wonder he voiced those opinions. He had no choice at all. The templars in Kirkwall were rotten and the fact that many templars wanted to change things (Keran, Thrask,...) shows that. 

You forget one thing: he was sent to Kirkwal by Gregoir because of his extreme opinions, and the fact that Gregoir thaught he might fit in better under Meredith. The fact that there were templars in Kirkwal didn't echo Meredith's opinions, end even worked against her prove that Cullen did indeed have a choice.

If you play it right though Cullen ends up turning on Meredith at the end with essentially a "I have seen this all one time before, what we're doing is wrong".

I don't really understand the Cullen love thing either fully but I can see how he might be an endearing character with how at the end he seems to be changing/coming around and having his view changed.

Modifié par Gregolian, 15 mai 2013 - 06:13 .

[sandalisthemaker]

Enigmatick wrote...

I'll have you know successfully check my privilege everyday and ignoring the fact the Cullen horde really does have raging need to get in his pixelated trousers, wanting any previous character back as a companion is not the same as wanting the isometric view (have fun aiming those aoes btw) or racial customization back.

"Things that I like are important. Things that I don't like are not important."

[LolaLei]

Vallasch wrote...

TK514 wrote...


Except for the parts about Templars not being prison guards and every death (including full Annulment) requiring justification and oversight, I couldn't disagree more.

Templars are not there to be prison guards, coworkers, friends, drinking buddies, a fourth for bridge, or any other even vaguely social purpose.

Templars have two jobs:

• Protect mages from 'burn the witch' mobs, which the Circle system does adequately via segregation
  
• Protect everyone from mages who cross the line, willingly or not.

That's it.  They're security for an important resource and a sprinkler system over a fire hazard, and should maintain the same detachment for both.  It would probably be best if the Templars and Mages only saw each other when their respective jobs required it, with certain levels, such as Knight-Commander/First Enchanter having more contact than the rank-and-file.  It's hard to abuse someone they never see, and it makes them better able to carry out their only two jobs.  Templars wouldn't have to dehumanize Mages, any more than any other person who's job is to potentially end the life of another, but they wouldn't become so familiar that conflicts of interest or potentially lethal hesitation due to misplaced empathy would arise.

Having Mages be Templars defeats the entire purpose of the Order.  The reason there needs to be Templars at all is because EVERY Mage, no matter how wise, well trained, experienced or old, is one lapse of will or judgement away from becoming an uncontrolled WMD.  That includes the Mages you would have join the Order.   There is simply no way a Mage Templar could work.

Lastly, there's no reason at all that the Chantry couldn't maintain oversight and investigate claims of misconduct among the Templars.  Internal Affairs are still cops, for example.  It is entirely possible for two members of the same organization to maintain objectivity about each others actions, and pass unbiased judgement on same.

Very well said, great post.

For my part, this is the reason i don't like Cullen. He experienced what his job is like at its worst and is no longer able to perform it objectively. Therefor, in my eyes, he's just not qualified for that job and no amount of extra training or emotional fixing will amend that. That he is promoted to a high rank for it by a new boss who is even more extremist only makes it more irksome.

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that he should not have been promoted to Knight Captain, but that just really reflects on Meredith's actions, she wanted a like-minded individual to serve under her (hur hur) that she could (in a sense) shape into the perfect Templar. Cullen was messed up enough that initally he would and did follow her orders and done as she commanded of him because, as he said himself, he promised that he would never question the Order again.

What she didn't account for was that Cullen would indeed begin to question the Order and her motives over time. Perhaps that's not the original plan the writers had for him originally, but for some reason they decided to retcon his crazy mage-killing epilogues in DA:O and take him down a different path.

Maybe one day they'll tell us why they changed things.

[LolaLei]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Enigmatick wrote...

I'll have you know successfully check my privilege everyday and ignoring the fact the Cullen horde really does have raging need to get in his pixelated trousers, wanting any previous character back as a companion is not the same as wanting the isometric view (have fun aiming those aoes btw) or racial customization back.

"Things that I like are important. Things that I don't like are not important."

That's not quite what I meant, but yes, that too.

[Twice a Lady]

I imagine the reasons for liking him are as diverse and varied as the many people who love him. There is nothing wrong with liking a character, or not liking one for that matter, but there is something wrong with calling people on it and starting a thread asking people to explain it to you. Do you start threads about all the Bioware characters you hate and aim them at said character's fans? Because honestly I don't see what this will accomplish. Cullen fans will love Cullen for their own reasons, just as you don't like Cullen for your own reasons.

[Gregolian]

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that he should not have been promoted to Knight Captain, but that just really reflects on Meredith's actions, she wanted a like-minded individual to serve under her (hur hur) that she could (in a sense) shape into the perfect Templar. Cullen was messed up enough that initally he would and did follow her orders and done as she commanded of him because, as he said himself, he promised that he would never question the Order again.

What she didn't account for was that Cullen would indeed begin to question the Order and her motives over time. Perhaps that's not the original plan the writers had for him originally, but for some reason they decided to retcon his crazy mage-killing epilogues in DA:O and take him down a different path.

Maybe one day they'll tell us why they changed things.

He isn't the first character to undergo an extreme change like this, even just limited to video games.

-Tali in Mass Effect goes from super hating the Geth to accepting Legion at least somewhat to in ME3 almost feeling sorry for Legion and the other Geth

-Alistair though not as extreme as Cullen was very wary of mages, or any non-human/normal every day human at the beginning and by the end accepts pretty much everyone in the group

-If you look to other media like say, Game of Thrones the character of The Hound goes from loyal dog to one family to telling the King and members of that family to take it and stick it basically

-Nathaniel Howe in Awakenings goes from despising the Couslands and your player character for what happened to his dad to slowly realizing, even if he still is angered some by it, he at least understands why what happened happened.

[NoForgiveness]

I seriously just want to kill Cullen. Even if people want to "save" him, I don't think its possible. he's lived in Kirkwall for like 6 years and if there was any change at all, then he's gotten worse. As the second in command he's the one that could've gotten Meredith to stop or even prevent the right of annulment from being invoked. His little change of heart means absolutely nothing.

[Plaintiff]

TK514 wrote...
Except for the parts about Templars not being prison guards and every death (including full Annulment) requiring justification and oversight, I couldn't disagree more.

Templars are not there to be prison guards, coworkers, friends, drinking buddies, a fourth for bridge, or any other even vaguely social purpose.

Templars have two jobs:

• Protect mages from 'burn the witch' mobs, which the Circle system does adequately via segregation
• Protect everyone from mages who cross the line, willingly or not.

That's it.  They're security for an important resource and a sprinkler system over a fire hazard, and should maintain the same detachment for both.  It would probably be best if the Templars and Mages only saw each other when their respective jobs required it, with certain levels, such as Knight-Commander/First Enchanter having more contact than the rank-and-file.  It's hard to abuse someone they never see, and it makes them better able to carry out their only two jobs.  Templars wouldn't have to dehumanize Mages, any more than any other person who's job is to potentially end the life of another, but they wouldn't become so familiar that conflicts of interest or potentially lethal hesitation due to misplaced empathy would arise.

Because nothing prevents dehumanization of a group like having no contact with it!
Segregation: The road to peace.

Having Mages be Templars defeats the entire purpose of the Order.  The reason there needs to be Templars at all is because EVERY Mage, no matter how wise, well trained, experienced or old, is one lapse of will or judgement away from becoming an uncontrolled WMD.  That includes the Mages you would have join the Order.   There is simply no way a Mage Templar could work.

Yes, it's much better the way it is now, where Templar go up against fireball wielding madmen with nothing but vague and unreliable meditation powers for protection.

Lastly, there's no reason at all that the Chantry couldn't maintain oversight and investigate claims of misconduct among the Templars.  Internal Affairs are still cops, for example.  It is entirely possible for two members of the same organization to maintain objectivity about each others actions, and pass unbiased judgement on same.

There's "no reason" the fascist, bigoted religion can't maintain oversight of the people it erroneously blames for all of the evil in the world? Really? Really?

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 mai 2013 - 06:25 .

[LolaLei]

Gregolian wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree that he should not have been promoted to Knight Captain, but that just really reflects on Meredith's actions, she wanted a like-minded individual to serve under her (hur hur) that she could (in a sense) shape into the perfect Templar. Cullen was messed up enough that initally he would and did follow her orders and done as she commanded of him because, as he said himself, he promised that he would never question the Order again.

What she didn't account for was that Cullen would indeed begin to question the Order and her motives over time. Perhaps that's not the original plan the writers had for him originally, but for some reason they decided to retcon his crazy mage-killing epilogues in DA:O and take him down a different path.

Maybe one day they'll tell us why they changed things.

He isn't the first character to undergo an extreme change like this, even just limited to video games.

-Tali in Mass Effect goes from super hating the Geth to accepting Legion at least somewhat to in ME3 almost feeling sorry for Legion and the other Geth

-Alistair though not as extreme as Cullen was very wary of mages, or any non-human/normal every day human at the beginning and by the end accepts pretty much everyone in the group

-If you look to other media like say, Game of Thrones the character of The Hound goes from loyal dog to one family to telling the King and members of that family to take it and stick it basically

-Nathaniel Howe in Awakenings goes from despising the Couslands and your player character for what happened to his dad to slowly realizing, even if he still is angered some by it, he at least understands why what happened happened.

Yeah, it's used a lot. I guess we could probably take a crack at how his story will resolve itself if it follows like the others.

[LolaLei]

StreetMagic wrote...

He looks so much like a real friend of mine. It's uncanny.

I just find him funny how clueless he is. He's like an Inspector Clouseau.. He thinks he's a Great Templar and Investigator, but he's pretty clueless. It makes him almost endearing.

Pics or it didn't happen, LOL!

[Gregolian]

LolaLei wrote...
Yeah, it's used a lot. I guess we could probably take a crack at how his story will resolve itself if it follows like the others.

I can see why people might like the guy but honestly I am in the boat of if he reappears I don't want him as a party member.

As it stands, I really think Cassandra will be a party member almost 100% but having Cullen as an NPC you interact with quite a bit is something I would not be against.  He showed signs at the end of II that he might have changed his opinion on mages (obviously this depends on the choices you make) at least a little so there is SOME redeemable qualities there.

[Battlebloodmage]

I actually like Cullen before the Paul Walker makeover so look really wasn't why I like him. In my mind, I find him to be a very vulnerable and emotional person. It's understandable if in the heat of moment, he becomes irrational. He had been through a lot with the ordeal at the circle. In DA2, he's a very principle man and would get mad more if Hawke decides to be wishy washy instead of choosing a side. There is also the aspect of him having witnessed the worst of templars and mages. He could offer an interesting perspective if he's a companion. Look is not always a factor in how I choose LI. I mostly choose it based on how I want to tell the storyline. I find Fenris to be the most attractive out of all four, but Anders and Isabela are the ones I often choose as my LI while playing through DA2. Hell, I couldn't even see Tali's face, and she's one of my favorite LI in ME2. If Cullen is not a companion, I'd probably be a bit disappointed, but I don't think Cullen fans (From what I have seen) would start a riot on the forum like some people predicted. Most of the Cullen threads on here seem to not even from Cullen fans.

[Battlebloodmage]

LolaLei wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

He looks so much like a real friend of mine. It's uncanny.

I just find him funny how clueless he is. He's like an Inspector Clouseau.. He thinks he's a Great Templar and Investigator, but he's pretty clueless. It makes him almost endearing.

Pics or it didn't happen, LOL!

You don't see Cullen with your eyes, you see him with your heart. If you just believe. 

Anyway, I remember mentioning someone I saw at my university who look just like him. That guy even has the dark circles under his eyes.