360 réponses à ce sujet

[LolaLei]

Nerevar-as wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


If he is a companion then the option to tell him to "eff' off" or murder knife him should be there, I wouldn't do it myself because I'm a Cullen fan, but the option should be there for those who want it. As for Cassandra, I'm more than happy to have her as a companion too.

Why? I didn't have the option to murder-knife Isabela. So why should the Cullen haters have this luxury?

You could punch her in the face though, I didn't get to do that to Sister Petrice! 

How?

How can you punch Isabela in the face? Or how something else?

[sandalisthemaker]

Nerevar-as wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


If he is a companion then the option to tell him to "eff' off" or murder knife him should be there, I wouldn't do it myself because I'm a Cullen fan, but the option should be there for those who want it. As for Cassandra, I'm more than happy to have her as a companion too.

Why? I didn't have the option to murder-knife Isabela. So why should the Cullen haters have this luxury?

You could punch her in the face though, I didn't get to do that to Sister Petrice! 

How?

Choose the aggressive option in the scene at the blooming rose where you pretend to turn Isabela over to Castillon. (Act 3)
BAM, right in the kisser.

[Plaintiff]

Nerevar-as wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


If he is a companion then the option to tell him to "eff' off" or murder knife him should be there, I wouldn't do it myself because I'm a Cullen fan, but the option should be there for those who want it. As for Cassandra, I'm more than happy to have her as a companion too.

Why? I didn't have the option to murder-knife Isabela. So why should the Cullen haters have this luxury?

You could punch her in the face though, I didn't get to do that to Sister Petrice! 

How?

First, make a fist by curling your fingers inward and folding your thumb underneath.

[Knight of Dane]

I don't understand it either, but I'm okay with him as a character.

Don't want him as companion, but that's mostly because I wouldn't want any old charatcers.

[Nerevar-as]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

LolaLei wrote...


If he is a companion then the option to tell him to "eff' off" or murder knife him should be there, I wouldn't do it myself because I'm a Cullen fan, but the option should be there for those who want it. As for Cassandra, I'm more than happy to have her as a companion too.

Why? I didn't have the option to murder-knife Isabela. So why should the Cullen haters have this luxury?

You could punch her in the face though, I didn't get to do that to Sister Petrice! 

How?

Choose the aggressive option in the scene at the blooming rose where you pretend to turn Isabela over to Castillon. (Act 3)
BAM, right in the kisser.

Thanks. Still too little for all she caused, but less than nothing I guess.

[CuriousArtemis]

Watching Cullen grow and unfold whilst plumbing his hidden depths... damn this thread is almost as great as the actual Cullen thread 

[MisterJB]

Kallimachus wrote...
It's been said before, but it's worth repeating: if you deny personhood from AWAKENED darkspawn, yes, you are on the path to evil.

Even Awakened, Darkspawn corrupt the very land and their only method of reproduction involves kidnapping women, gangraping them, spit and gurgle in their mouths and force them to cannibalize their race until they become Broodmothers. One could easily make the claim there is just no place for them.
But very well, Tolkien's orcs. They are as sentient as any of the Free People of Middle Earth but they are wholly evil. Never, in any of Tolkien's works has there been a good or morally ambiguous orc. They are capable of nothing but of murder and destruction, even amongst themselves.
Now, I say "We should exterminate the orcs." Would you say this is an evil position?
I assume not thus proving that the subject does, in fact, matter when determing the worth of an ideology.

 Well neither do Theodesians. Magic is supposedly so rare that the vast majority of Theodesians would live all their lives without ever encountering a single mage. And even if they would, very few of them would summon anything at all.

Tell that to the people who lived and live under Tevinter rule.

Except in that he turns a blind eye to those who do. That is evil enough.

Has he? When?
Let's say that Alan complained to Cullen he was being raped by Karras. Where is the evidence?

Modifié par MisterJB, 15 mai 2013 - 07:44 .

[Gregolian]

LolaLei wrote...

Gregolian wrote...

LolaLei wrote...
Yeah, it's used a lot. I guess we could probably take a crack at how his story will resolve itself if it follows like the others.

I can see why people might like the guy but honestly I am in the boat of if he reappears I don't want him as a party member.

As it stands, I really think Cassandra will be a party member almost 100% but having Cullen as an NPC you interact with quite a bit is something I would not be against.  He showed signs at the end of II that he might have changed his opinion on mages (obviously this depends on the choices you make) at least a little so there is SOME redeemable qualities there.

If he is a companion then the option to tell him to "eff' off" or murder knife him should be there, I wouldn't do it myself because I'm a Cullen fan, but the option should be there for those who want it. As for Cassandra, I'm more than happy to have her as a companion too.

I for some reason was never able to murder butter knife people outside of Anders in DAII the ONE time I decided to shank him.

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...
Let's say that Alan complained to Cullen he was being raped by Karras. Where is the evidence?

I can think of one place.

[Kallimachus]

MisterJB wrote...
Now, I say "We should exterminate the orcs." Would you say this is an evil position?
I assume not thus proving that the subject does, in fact, matter when determing the worth of an ideology.

I would say that while I love Tolkien, his writings (perhaps because his writing style tries to mimick certain myths) portray characters in a very black and white (more than often very flat way), and are therefore unrealistic and meaningless in this discussion.
Tolkien's world lacks the exact type of complexity you extolled earlier in DA.

Tell that to the people who lived and live under Tevinter rule.

Even in Tevinter one doesn't encounter a wizard on a daily basis, unless he happens to be very high up in society (or happen to be enslaved by one). Do you want me to say that the system of government in Tevinter is bad? Very well - it's bad. Every bit as bad as the Templar Order's ruling over the circles. But What would that accomplish? Just like in this world you don't just have two options communism and fascism, you do not have to have just two options in Thedas.

But that is completely off topic.

Except in that he turns a blind eye to those who do. That is evil enough.

Has he? When?
Let's say that Alan complained to Cullen he was being raped by Karras. Where is the evidence?

I didn't say that, I say that he saw how the rite of tranquility was abused, and how people like Ser Alrik as well as Karras were behaving towards the mages. If rumors of that were trickling to the free populace, Cullen could not have not heard it, unless he didn't want to.

Modifié par Kallimachus, 15 mai 2013 - 08:20 .

[Plaintiff]

It's not even just rape, the mages of Kirkwall are routinely abused, and made Tranquil for literally no reason.

There's no way it could be MISSED. It had to have been IGNORED. There is no other possibility at all.

[schalafi]

I still haven't quite understood whether Cullen even recognized Hawke as a mage. His "mages cannot be treated like people,they're not like you and me" speech in the gallows confused me. I suppose by the later part of the game he must have known, but that first conversation was odd. There was Hawke in a robe with a staff, and he didn't seem to get it.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Let's say that Alan complained to Cullen he was being raped by Karras. Where is the evidence?

I can think of one place.

And Karras can just say it's self-inflicted. Mages trying to destroy his career.
Where is the evidence he is lying?

[LolaLei]

schalafi wrote...

I still haven't quite understood whether Cullen even recognized Hawke as a mage. His "mages cannot be treated like people,they're not like you and me" speech in the gallows confused me. I suppose by the later part of the game he must have known, but that first conversation was odd. There was Hawke in a robe with a staff, and he didn't seem to get it.

The first part of the game he didn't, apparently that was due to the writers forgetting to add in a reaction to him seeing that Hawke was a mage and/or with mage companions. Initally his obliviousness was due to the game not getting the time it needed, so they turned it into a character trait LOL. Later on in the game he recognises that Hawke and/or his companions are mages because he makes a passing comment about it once or twice.

[LolaLei]

Plaintiff wrote...

It's not even just rape, the mages of Kirkwall are routinely abused, and made Tranquil for literally no reason.

There's no way it could be MISSED. It had to have been IGNORED. There is no other possibility at all.

Yeah, that's something I hope he has answers for. I want to know if he did do anything about it, or at least attempt to if he was aware at all. If I don't like his answer then I have no problem in dealing with him accordingly, as I've said before.

[sandalisthemaker]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Let's say that Alan complained to Cullen he was being raped by Karras. Where is the evidence?

I can think of one place.

And Karras can just say it's self-inflicted. Mages trying to destroy his career.
Where is the evidence he is lying?

I don't think you got the joke.

[Commander Kurt]

Uh, yeah. Trying to understand, not defend, and plaintiff nailed the comparison with concentration camp guards. It isn't a good one, I agree, but it's hard to find one that is. I tried with soldiers first, but it's really not the same with killing total strangers, nor is bullets flying in a combat zone the same as cutting an unconscious young girl/boy down because his/her harrowing is taking too long, or because the right has been sent for.

Plaintiff, I get what you mean about Morrigan and she is perhaps not the best example. Her "tough luck" attitude I take as a mask aimed to hide her weakness (as she sees it). Still, I consider it a coping mechanism somewhere in the same area, she doesn't care about anyone because caring makes her vulnerable and easily exploitable. Learning this about mages and doing it the hard way was Cullen's story in DA:O (it doesn't make it right, but I do see some similarities between the characters). I also agree completely on your ideas for the circle, that would be ideal, but were I think we disagree is on the level of grimness surrounding the templar role. They are supposed to be fully able to wipe out every man, woman and child in the circle without thinking twice about it, although that is a rare occurrence. Day to day chores include killing a mage for taking too long in the fade. I don't know if those measures are reasonable, they certainly seem excessive after having faced abominations and blood mages in the game, but supposing they are - could you do that to a coo worker? To a friend?

R2's muse, what? No more cookies? But, but... I was just trying to say that I had a really good time in your thread, and that it might be better to ask there rather than get 1000 replies here that are not from the people the OP is trying to understand. "Nice" was actually what I was going for...

[Plaintiff]

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Let's say that Alan complained to Cullen he was being raped by Karras. Where is the evidence?

I can think of one place.

And Karras can just say it's self-inflicted. Mages trying to destroy his career.
Where is the evidence he is lying?

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Wow. That is a hell of an image.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 mai 2013 - 08:28 .

[MisterJB]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

MisterJB wrote...
Let's say that Alan complained to Cullen he was being raped by Karras. Where is the evidence?

I can think of one place.

And Karras can just say it's self-inflicted. Mages trying to destroy his career.
Where is the evidence he is lying?

I don't think you got the joke.

He meant that they could examine Alan's rear for signs of entry, correct?

[sandalisthemaker]

MisterJB wrote...


He meant that they could examine Alan's rear for signs of entry, correct?

Um, yeah, which is why I found your comment about "self inflicted" to be more than a bit baffling.
And amusing in a very naughty way. Rofl.

[Plaintiff]

No, I meant that "Kerras wuz here Dragon, 9:40" would be scrawled on Alain's back.

On a serious note, in the real world, we don't just throw out rape claims for lack of evidence. They get taken seriously (or rather, are supposed to get taken seriously) even if the victim doesn't provide a beaker of the attacker's semen.

There are other ways to investigate and determine the likelihood of guilt, and if Cullen was to brush Alain off because "For all I know you sat on one of the decorative spikes around Lowtown", he would be not just a bad templar, but a terrible person.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 15 mai 2013 - 08:36 .

[LolaLei]

Plaintiff wrote...

No, I meant that "Kerras wuz here Dragon, 9:40" would be scrawled on Alain's back.

On a serious note, in the real world, we don't just throw out rape claims for lack of evidence. They get taken seriously (or rather, are supposed to get taken seriously) even if the victim doesn't provide a beaker of the attacker's semen.

There are other ways to investigate and determine the likelihood of guilt, and if Cullen was to brush Alain off because "For all I know you sat on one of the decorative spikes around Lowtown", he would be not just a bad templar, but a terrible person.

It makes me wonder if Alain ever told Cullen or any of the other mages etc, I think Alain himself says that Kerras told him to keep his mouth shut (don't quote me on that one).

The thing is, Hawke doesn't do anything about it either! After hearing that you'd think we'd have been given the option to go over there and kick some arse (be it Kerras' or any other rapey templar). It makes me wonder if Alain's little outburst is something that only the player is supposed to hear.

[MisterJB]

Plaintiff wrote...

No, I meant that "Kerras wuz here Dragon, 9:40" would be scrawled on Alain's back.

On a serious note, in the real world, we don't just throw out rape claims for lack of evidence. They get taken seriously (or rather, are supposed to get taken seriously) even if the victim doesn't provide a beaker of the attacker's semen.

There are other ways to investigate and determine the likelihood of guilt, and if Cullen was to brush Alain off because "For all I know you sat on one of the decorative spikes around Lowtown", he would be not just a bad templar, but a terrible person.

Fine, do suggest some way to prove it's happening. Because we can follow it up all we want but we can't condemn people without evidence.
The best I can think of is setting up a trap to catch him in the act but Meredith would never go for it.

[CuriousArtemis]

How about we just not joke about rape, even in a game.

[esper]

LolaLei wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

No, I meant that "Kerras wuz here Dragon, 9:40" would be scrawled on Alain's back.

On a serious note, in the real world, we don't just throw out rape claims for lack of evidence. They get taken seriously (or rather, are supposed to get taken seriously) even if the victim doesn't provide a beaker of the attacker's semen.

There are other ways to investigate and determine the likelihood of guilt, and if Cullen was to brush Alain off because "For all I know you sat on one of the decorative spikes around Lowtown", he would be not just a bad templar, but a terrible person.

It makes me wonder if Alain ever told Cullen or any of the other mages etc, I think Alain himself says that Kerras told him to keep his mouth shut (don't quote me on that one).

The thing is, Hawke doesn't do anything about it either! After hearing that you'd think we'd have been given the option to go over there and kick some arse (be it Kerras' or any other rapey templar). It makes me wonder if Alain's little outburst is something that only the player is supposed to hear.

Hawke can't do something, unless they catch Kerras in some dark alley (or other place where they can kill him without evidence pointing to them). Hawke have no legal authority over the Cirlce and both are within Circle grounds. If Hawke attempted they would likely get caught, killed and Kerras would still be free to continue.

Edit. To be fair you can blame Hawke, espically if you are female, since when you meet him in Trask quest, Kerras make no attempt to hide what kind of person he is and Hawke has the change to stop him there.

The problem is that if Kerras is killed Alain still gets violated, which means that Kerras was not the only one. And that is not suprising. Rape is about power and it does happen more often in groups where one social group have absolute control over another social group.

Modifié par esper, 15 mai 2013 - 08:57 .