I meant "Where Karras was supposed to be, etc" of course. That is circunstancial evidence and it would not get him condemned.Plaintiff wrote...
You're right, it's entirely possible that they're just jumping on the bed. Braiding each other's hair, telling scary stories...
I clicked on him after letting that one girl that was in the cave go and then I usually ended up tricking Karras into running off searching.Melca36 wrote...
Gregolian wrote...
That Alain was raped the way most men get raped in prison.sandalisthemaker wrote...
Gregolian wrote...
You guys know rape means more than just what you are all insinuating right?
What do you think people here are insinuating?
There is the option that the guards in Guantanamo used in the Harold and Kumar movie too. This is a side effect of me watching way too much Law and Order SVU.
I'll also be honest, I have never force Alain and others to go back to the circle so whenever I saw him at the Gallows he seemed really happy.
You obviously did NOT click on him in the Gallows.
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
No, I meant that "Kerras wuz here Dragon, 9:40" would be scrawled on Alain's back.
On a serious note, in the real world, we don't just throw out rape claims for lack of evidence. They get taken seriously (or rather, are supposed to get taken seriously) even if the victim doesn't provide a beaker of the attacker's semen.
There are other ways to investigate and determine the likelihood of guilt, and if Cullen was to brush Alain off because "For all I know you sat on one of the decorative spikes around Lowtown", he would be not just a bad templar, but a terrible person.
It makes me wonder if Alain ever told Cullen or any of the other mages etc, I think Alain himself says that Kerras told him to keep his mouth shut (don't quote me on that one).
The thing is, Hawke doesn't do anything about it either! After hearing that you'd think we'd have been given the option to go over there and kick some arse (be it Kerras' or any other rapey templar). It makes me wonder if Alain's little outburst is something that only the player is supposed to hear.
Hawke can't do something, unless they catch Kerras in some dark alley (or other place where they can kill him without evidence pointing to them). Hawke have no legal authority over the Cirlce and both are within Circle grounds. If Hawke attempted they would likely get caught, killed and Kerras would still be free to continue.
Edit. To be fair you can blame Hawke, espically if you are female, since when you meet him in Trask quest, Kerras make no attempt to hide what kind of person he is and Hawke has the change to stop him there.
The problem is that if Kerras is killed Alain still gets violated, which means that Kerras was not the only one. And that is not suprising. Rape is about power and it does happen more often in groups where one social group have absolute control over another social group.
Exactly, but we would've had the option if the devs had put it in, lol.
But that's my point, none of us know whether or not Cullen or anyone else knew about the rape/torture going on in the Gallow's because it's never made clear whether he or Meredith are aware of it or not. It's definitely something I hope gets cleared up one way or another in DA3.
This is one of the situation where if you don't know what is going on, but is a superior you are at the very least guilty of not being competent in your job.
Meridith and Cullen are responsible for the templars under them and not knowing is simply no excuse. Because they should have known.
Oh, there's definitely no denying that he's a bit of a rubbish Templar based off his lack of foresight alone! It's certainly something that I'd like to see him punishing himself about in DA3. But does being crap at your job make you a bad person? Not at all.
A fair few of the problems people have with him seems to be down to the game not getting the time it needed to fill in plot holes etc. Hell, a lot of his dialogue seems to contradict itself as it chops and changes throughout the game. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it was done purposely or not.
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
Anyway to get back to Cullen. No matter what his actions in the Last Straw is inexcusable to me.
He knows Meridith goes too far, he expressed doubt, about her so he knows it, but does nothing to stop it and in fact only turn on his superior when the person who need it least is in danger.
And then we are not even getting inton the lunacy of the *I thought we would just arrest the champion'. That line means he was either behind arresting a Hawke supporting Meridith or he somehow thought that Hawke wasn't going to get killed when Meridith made it clear that everyone siding with the mages were death.
In the last scenario we even have him protecting the person who more or less harbored the one who actually did the crime, that person might still be alive and on the active team fighting Meridith, which means we have Cullen protecting the only person who Meridith might have an actual reason to want to kill, but not standing up for all those innocent who had nothing to do with the explosion.
After that line, I simply have no respect for the man anymore.
To be fair, the whole ending to DA2 didn't really make sense.
It made perfect sense. I don't see it as inconsistent with his character at all. It simply highlighted exactly what kind of character he is, and that is one who is good at surving at the cost of others. He simply knew how good of a fighter Hawke is (after all he has seen it first hand) and switched side in the right moment.
Problem is, I have no sympthahy for that specific kind of turn coat because they make self-survival seem like they are doing a morally superior thing and not at all because they want to live another day.
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
No, I meant that "Kerras wuz here Dragon, 9:40" would be scrawled on Alain's back.
On a serious note, in the real world, we don't just throw out rape claims for lack of evidence. They get taken seriously (or rather, are supposed to get taken seriously) even if the victim doesn't provide a beaker of the attacker's semen.
There are other ways to investigate and determine the likelihood of guilt, and if Cullen was to brush Alain off because "For all I know you sat on one of the decorative spikes around Lowtown", he would be not just a bad templar, but a terrible person.
It makes me wonder if Alain ever told Cullen or any of the other mages etc, I think Alain himself says that Kerras told him to keep his mouth shut (don't quote me on that one).
The thing is, Hawke doesn't do anything about it either! After hearing that you'd think we'd have been given the option to go over there and kick some arse (be it Kerras' or any other rapey templar). It makes me wonder if Alain's little outburst is something that only the player is supposed to hear.
Hawke can't do something, unless they catch Kerras in some dark alley (or other place where they can kill him without evidence pointing to them). Hawke have no legal authority over the Cirlce and both are within Circle grounds. If Hawke attempted they would likely get caught, killed and Kerras would still be free to continue.
Edit. To be fair you can blame Hawke, espically if you are female, since when you meet him in Trask quest, Kerras make no attempt to hide what kind of person he is and Hawke has the change to stop him there.
The problem is that if Kerras is killed Alain still gets violated, which means that Kerras was not the only one. And that is not suprising. Rape is about power and it does happen more often in groups where one social group have absolute control over another social group.
Exactly, but we would've had the option if the devs had put it in, lol.
But that's my point, none of us know whether or not Cullen or anyone else knew about the rape/torture going on in the Gallow's because it's never made clear whether he or Meredith are aware of it or not. It's definitely something I hope gets cleared up one way or another in DA3.
This is one of the situation where if you don't know what is going on, but is a superior you are at the very least guilty of not being competent in your job.
Meridith and Cullen are responsible for the templars under them and not knowing is simply no excuse. Because they should have known.
Oh, there's definitely no denying that he's a bit of a rubbish Templar based off his lack of foresight alone! It's certainly something that I'd like to see him punishing himself about in DA3. But does being crap at your job make you a bad person? Not at all.
A fair few of the problems people have with him seems to be down to the game not getting the time it needed to fill in plot holes etc. Hell, a lot of his dialogue seems to contradict itself as it chops and changes throughout the game. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it was done purposely or not.
A stranger to the circle can pick up the rumours first hand. Cullen is either too dumb to have his position or is willfully ingoring it.
Modifié par LolaLei, 15 mai 2013 - 09:29 .
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Plaintiff wrote...
No, I meant that "Kerras wuz here Dragon, 9:40" would be scrawled on Alain's back.
On a serious note, in the real world, we don't just throw out rape claims for lack of evidence. They get taken seriously (or rather, are supposed to get taken seriously) even if the victim doesn't provide a beaker of the attacker's semen.
There are other ways to investigate and determine the likelihood of guilt, and if Cullen was to brush Alain off because "For all I know you sat on one of the decorative spikes around Lowtown", he would be not just a bad templar, but a terrible person.
It makes me wonder if Alain ever told Cullen or any of the other mages etc, I think Alain himself says that Kerras told him to keep his mouth shut (don't quote me on that one).
The thing is, Hawke doesn't do anything about it either! After hearing that you'd think we'd have been given the option to go over there and kick some arse (be it Kerras' or any other rapey templar). It makes me wonder if Alain's little outburst is something that only the player is supposed to hear.
Hawke can't do something, unless they catch Kerras in some dark alley (or other place where they can kill him without evidence pointing to them). Hawke have no legal authority over the Cirlce and both are within Circle grounds. If Hawke attempted they would likely get caught, killed and Kerras would still be free to continue.
Edit. To be fair you can blame Hawke, espically if you are female, since when you meet him in Trask quest, Kerras make no attempt to hide what kind of person he is and Hawke has the change to stop him there.
The problem is that if Kerras is killed Alain still gets violated, which means that Kerras was not the only one. And that is not suprising. Rape is about power and it does happen more often in groups where one social group have absolute control over another social group.
Exactly, but we would've had the option if the devs had put it in, lol.
But that's my point, none of us know whether or not Cullen or anyone else knew about the rape/torture going on in the Gallow's because it's never made clear whether he or Meredith are aware of it or not. It's definitely something I hope gets cleared up one way or another in DA3.
This is one of the situation where if you don't know what is going on, but is a superior you are at the very least guilty of not being competent in your job.
Meridith and Cullen are responsible for the templars under them and not knowing is simply no excuse. Because they should have known.
Oh, there's definitely no denying that he's a bit of a rubbish Templar based off his lack of foresight alone! It's certainly something that I'd like to see him punishing himself about in DA3. But does being crap at your job make you a bad person? Not at all.
A fair few of the problems people have with him seems to be down to the game not getting the time it needed to fill in plot holes etc. Hell, a lot of his dialogue seems to contradict itself as it chops and changes throughout the game. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether it was done purposely or not.
A stranger to the circle can pick up the rumours first hand. Cullen is either too dumb to have his position or is willfully ingoring it.
And yet still nothing was done about it. Nice one, Hawke.
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
Anyway to get back to Cullen. No matter what his actions in the Last Straw is inexcusable to me.
He knows Meridith goes too far, he expressed doubt, about her so he knows it, but does nothing to stop it and in fact only turn on his superior when the person who need it least is in danger.
And then we are not even getting inton the lunacy of the *I thought we would just arrest the champion'. That line means he was either behind arresting a Hawke supporting Meridith or he somehow thought that Hawke wasn't going to get killed when Meridith made it clear that everyone siding with the mages were death.
In the last scenario we even have him protecting the person who more or less harbored the one who actually did the crime, that person might still be alive and on the active team fighting Meridith, which means we have Cullen protecting the only person who Meridith might have an actual reason to want to kill, but not standing up for all those innocent who had nothing to do with the explosion.
After that line, I simply have no respect for the man anymore.
To be fair, the whole ending to DA2 didn't really make sense.
It made perfect sense. I don't see it as inconsistent with his character at all. It simply highlighted exactly what kind of character he is, and that is one who is good at surving at the cost of others. He simply knew how good of a fighter Hawke is (after all he has seen it first hand) and switched side in the right moment.
Problem is, I have no sympthahy for that specific kind of turn coat because they make self-survival seem like they are doing a morally superior thing and not at all because they want to live another day.
Well, I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on this one.
I put his actions and seemingly wishy-washy nature down to the games lack of production time. Am I wrong? Possibly, but we're not gonna find out for sure until we discover what he's like in DA3 and how much he did or didn't know etc, and that's only if we get the chance to ask him at all.
Gregolian wrote...
I clicked on him after letting that one girl that was in the cave go and then I usually ended up tricking Karras into running off searching.Melca36 wrote...
Gregolian wrote...
That Alain was raped the way most men get raped in prison.sandalisthemaker wrote...
Gregolian wrote...
You guys know rape means more than just what you are all insinuating right?
What do you think people here are insinuating?
There is the option that the guards in Guantanamo used in the Harold and Kumar movie too. This is a side effect of me watching way too much Law and Order SVU.
I'll also be honest, I have never force Alain and others to go back to the circle so whenever I saw him at the Gallows he seemed really happy.
You obviously did NOT click on him in the Gallows.
When I clicked on Alain I got a "thank you for giving me a chance to live" typ response.
No I know that's the Gallows and ****. When I talked to him in the Gallows he said thanks basically for not trying to kill him. I guess part of it might be I only ever clicked once and I always saved him, sent Grace on her way to Starkhaven, and then sent Karras off on a wild goose chase.Melca36 wrote...
Its not there. Its in the Gallows where he says. Look at the screenshot I posted.
Modifié par Gregolian, 15 mai 2013 - 09:44 .
esper wrote...
They are what we have and can discuss his character out off. If you don't like them, you are not discussing his character, but some imaginary character that does not exist.
Fact is Cullen said that line, and turned on Meridith that way and that unless it is retgonned it will always be written in his character. Closign your eyes and saying, bad writing doesn't change the fact that his character did it.
LolaLei wrote...
Hawke could have done it if he/she had wanted to (if the option had been given, that is.) Hawke had his /her fingers in all the pies so it wouldn't have taken much to lure Kerras/whoever away from the Gallow's to kill him or whatever.
That's not me letting Cullen off the hook however, as I've said many a time if he doesn't have a decent explanation then he gets the murder knife. All I'm saying is that Hawke had the power to do something about it, even in a small way, if he/she had wanted to.
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
They are what we have and can discuss his character out off. If you don't like them, you are not discussing his character, but some imaginary character that does not exist.
Fact is Cullen said that line, and turned on Meridith that way and that unless it is retgonned it will always be written in his character. Closign your eyes and saying, bad writing doesn't change the fact that his character did it.
Amazingly enough, it is possible to like a character without agreeing with, or liking, the things he's said or done. Shock horror!
Regardless, I'm not repeating myself anymore. I've already told you several times that I want answers for the things he's said/done, he's not an angel and nor should he be. Oh, and FYI I never said it was "bad writing" I said that some of his actions (like the oblivious-ness etc) was down to the game not getting enough time, the devs said themselves that they realised they had forgotten to put in certain reactions etc, which is what I was refering to.
If he's a grade-A jerk then so be it, I still find him an interesting character.
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Hawke could have done it if he/she had wanted to (if the option had been given, that is.) Hawke had his /her fingers in all the pies so it wouldn't have taken much to lure Kerras/whoever away from the Gallow's to kill him or whatever.
That's not me letting Cullen off the hook however, as I've said many a time if he doesn't have a decent explanation then he gets the murder knife. All I'm saying is that Hawke had the power to do something about it, even in a small way, if he/she had wanted to.
Right. If your Hawke let Kerras go in the first place, you might have a point. I have never let him live. Not beyond those comments he gave my female. Which made it clear, what he was.
If it is not Kerras. Hawke can't do nothing expect perhaps beginning to murder each templar they come across and hoping to get the right ones.
The problem is not just Kerras. And it is never just one person. Not in such an enviroment, which is why Cullen is guilty of very bad neglect (at least).
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
They are what we have and can discuss his character out off. If you don't like them, you are not discussing his character, but some imaginary character that does not exist.
Fact is Cullen said that line, and turned on Meridith that way and that unless it is retgonned it will always be written in his character. Closign your eyes and saying, bad writing doesn't change the fact that his character did it.
Amazingly enough, it is possible to like a character without agreeing with, or liking, the things he's said or done. Shock horror!
Regardless, I'm not repeating myself anymore. I've already told you several times that I want answers for the things he's said/done, he's not an angel and nor should he be. Oh, and FYI I never said it was "bad writing" I said that some of his actions (like the oblivious-ness etc) was down to the game not getting enough time, the devs said themselves that they realised they had forgotten to put in certain reactions etc, which is what I was refering to.
If he's a grade-A jerk then so be it, I still find him an interesting character.
I am not saying that. But you countered my precise explanation of why I didn't like him, with a 'it is just wishy washy' which makes it sound like your are closing your eyes and overlooking things, simply because you like.
If you like him despite it you could simply have said, 'I know that, but I still find him interesting'. That would be fair, I would have accepted that. As it is you simply attempted to counter my in story argument with something completely different.
That action was not oblivioness. It was him turning on Meridith in a way that completely cemented him as unlikeable forever in my mind. He simply crossed one of those specific things, I cannot personally forgive. I have never said anything about wherever I find his character interesting or not.
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Hawke could have done it if he/she had wanted to (if the option had been given, that is.) Hawke had his /her fingers in all the pies so it wouldn't have taken much to lure Kerras/whoever away from the Gallow's to kill him or whatever.
That's not me letting Cullen off the hook however, as I've said many a time if he doesn't have a decent explanation then he gets the murder knife. All I'm saying is that Hawke had the power to do something about it, even in a small way, if he/she had wanted to.
Right. If your Hawke let Kerras go in the first place, you might have a point. I have never let him live. Not beyond those comments he gave my female. Which made it clear, what he was.
If it is not Kerras. Hawke can't do nothing expect perhaps beginning to murder each templar they come across and hoping to get the right ones.
The problem is not just Kerras. And it is never just one person. Not in such an enviroment, which is why Cullen is guilty of very bad neglect (at least).
Put it this way, if I was Hawke I would've one by one killed each rapey templar and if I had been given the option to in-game then I would have.
So, you're saying that he was guilty of neglect. Which is fine, I'll own that. But what do you mean by "at least", are you suggesting that he too joined in with the raped and torture of mages within the Gallows?
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
They are what we have and can discuss his character out off. If you don't like them, you are not discussing his character, but some imaginary character that does not exist.
Fact is Cullen said that line, and turned on Meridith that way and that unless it is retgonned it will always be written in his character. Closign your eyes and saying, bad writing doesn't change the fact that his character did it.
Amazingly enough, it is possible to like a character without agreeing with, or liking, the things he's said or done. Shock horror!
Regardless, I'm not repeating myself anymore. I've already told you several times that I want answers for the things he's said/done, he's not an angel and nor should he be. Oh, and FYI I never said it was "bad writing" I said that some of his actions (like the oblivious-ness etc) was down to the game not getting enough time, the devs said themselves that they realised they had forgotten to put in certain reactions etc, which is what I was refering to.
If he's a grade-A jerk then so be it, I still find him an interesting character.
I am not saying that. But you countered my precise explanation of why I didn't like him, with a 'it is just wishy washy' which makes it sound like your are closing your eyes and overlooking things, simply because you like.
If you like him despite it you could simply have said, 'I know that, but I still find him interesting'. That would be fair, I would have accepted that. As it is you simply attempted to counter my in story argument with something completely different.
That action was not oblivioness. It was him turning on Meridith in a way that completely cemented him as unlikeable forever in my mind. He simply crossed one of those specific things, I cannot personally forgive. I have never said anything about wherever I find his character interesting or not.
No, I didn't. I said that I personally felt his actions were wishy-washy due to lack of time spent on the game. I never said you were incorrect or that my opinion was superior or gospel, and if you got that impression from my post then that's down to you, but it certainly wasn't my intention.
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Hawke could have done it if he/she had wanted to (if the option had been given, that is.) Hawke had his /her fingers in all the pies so it wouldn't have taken much to lure Kerras/whoever away from the Gallow's to kill him or whatever.
That's not me letting Cullen off the hook however, as I've said many a time if he doesn't have a decent explanation then he gets the murder knife. All I'm saying is that Hawke had the power to do something about it, even in a small way, if he/she had wanted to.
Right. If your Hawke let Kerras go in the first place, you might have a point. I have never let him live. Not beyond those comments he gave my female. Which made it clear, what he was.
If it is not Kerras. Hawke can't do nothing expect perhaps beginning to murder each templar they come across and hoping to get the right ones.
The problem is not just Kerras. And it is never just one person. Not in such an enviroment, which is why Cullen is guilty of very bad neglect (at least).
Put it this way, if I was Hawke I would've one by one killed each rapey templar and if I had been given the option to in-game then I would have.
So, you're saying that he was guilty of neglect. Which is fine, I'll own that. But what do you mean by "at least", are you suggesting that he too joined in with the raped and torture of mages within the Gallows?
No I hope not. At least not the rape. The torture... maybe. He does not completely dismiss Alriks crazy idea after all.
But I think he might be guilty of not just neglect born off incompetence, but willfull neglect. Ie. closign his eyes while he still knows the problem is there and thereby letting it happen. I am sure Meridith is guilty of that.
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
They are what we have and can discuss his character out off. If you don't like them, you are not discussing his character, but some imaginary character that does not exist.
Fact is Cullen said that line, and turned on Meridith that way and that unless it is retgonned it will always be written in his character. Closign your eyes and saying, bad writing doesn't change the fact that his character did it.
Amazingly enough, it is possible to like a character without agreeing with, or liking, the things he's said or done. Shock horror!
Regardless, I'm not repeating myself anymore. I've already told you several times that I want answers for the things he's said/done, he's not an angel and nor should he be. Oh, and FYI I never said it was "bad writing" I said that some of his actions (like the oblivious-ness etc) was down to the game not getting enough time, the devs said themselves that they realised they had forgotten to put in certain reactions etc, which is what I was refering to.
If he's a grade-A jerk then so be it, I still find him an interesting character.
I am not saying that. But you countered my precise explanation of why I didn't like him, with a 'it is just wishy washy' which makes it sound like your are closing your eyes and overlooking things, simply because you like.
If you like him despite it you could simply have said, 'I know that, but I still find him interesting'. That would be fair, I would have accepted that. As it is you simply attempted to counter my in story argument with something completely different.
That action was not oblivioness. It was him turning on Meridith in a way that completely cemented him as unlikeable forever in my mind. He simply crossed one of those specific things, I cannot personally forgive. I have never said anything about wherever I find his character interesting or not.
No, I didn't. I said that I personally felt his actions were wishy-washy due to lack of time spent on the game. I never said you were incorrect or that my opinion was superior or gospel, and if you got that impression from my post then that's down to you, but it certainly wasn't my intention.
Perhaps. It is late here. I mgiht easily have misunderstood you.
But I don't really see the value of your comment then. What where you hoping to get out of it? What point where you making.
He does say that. He does those thing. It doesn't really matter wherever it is whisy washy or not, it is part of his character now. If you find him interesting, you have to take that into account. If you don't really have any comment, on the specific thing I wasn't pointing out then what was the point. Because I am geniually not following your logic here.
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
Hawke could have done it if he/she had wanted to (if the option had been given, that is.) Hawke had his /her fingers in all the pies so it wouldn't have taken much to lure Kerras/whoever away from the Gallow's to kill him or whatever.
That's not me letting Cullen off the hook however, as I've said many a time if he doesn't have a decent explanation then he gets the murder knife. All I'm saying is that Hawke had the power to do something about it, even in a small way, if he/she had wanted to.
Right. If your Hawke let Kerras go in the first place, you might have a point. I have never let him live. Not beyond those comments he gave my female. Which made it clear, what he was.
If it is not Kerras. Hawke can't do nothing expect perhaps beginning to murder each templar they come across and hoping to get the right ones.
The problem is not just Kerras. And it is never just one person. Not in such an enviroment, which is why Cullen is guilty of very bad neglect (at least).
Put it this way, if I was Hawke I would've one by one killed each rapey templar and if I had been given the option to in-game then I would have.
So, you're saying that he was guilty of neglect. Which is fine, I'll own that. But what do you mean by "at least", are you suggesting that he too joined in with the raped and torture of mages within the Gallows?
No I hope not. At least not the rape. The torture... maybe. He does not completely dismiss Alriks crazy idea after all.
But I think he might be guilty of not just neglect born off incompetence, but willfull neglect. Ie. closign his eyes while he still knows the problem is there and thereby letting it happen. I am sure Meridith is guilty of that.
I guess that really depends on what David Gaider considers to be the actions and behavioural traits of a "very sweet" guy since those are the words he used to describe him in that interview he did with a fan. Personally, I wouldn't call needlessly torturing people as sweet, but who knows!
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
They are what we have and can discuss his character out off. If you don't like them, you are not discussing his character, but some imaginary character that does not exist.
Fact is Cullen said that line, and turned on Meridith that way and that unless it is retgonned it will always be written in his character. Closign your eyes and saying, bad writing doesn't change the fact that his character did it.
Amazingly enough, it is possible to like a character without agreeing with, or liking, the things he's said or done. Shock horror!
Regardless, I'm not repeating myself anymore. I've already told you several times that I want answers for the things he's said/done, he's not an angel and nor should he be. Oh, and FYI I never said it was "bad writing" I said that some of his actions (like the oblivious-ness etc) was down to the game not getting enough time, the devs said themselves that they realised they had forgotten to put in certain reactions etc, which is what I was refering to.
If he's a grade-A jerk then so be it, I still find him an interesting character.
I am not saying that. But you countered my precise explanation of why I didn't like him, with a 'it is just wishy washy' which makes it sound like your are closing your eyes and overlooking things, simply because you like.
If you like him despite it you could simply have said, 'I know that, but I still find him interesting'. That would be fair, I would have accepted that. As it is you simply attempted to counter my in story argument with something completely different.
That action was not oblivioness. It was him turning on Meridith in a way that completely cemented him as unlikeable forever in my mind. He simply crossed one of those specific things, I cannot personally forgive. I have never said anything about wherever I find his character interesting or not.
No, I didn't. I said that I personally felt his actions were wishy-washy due to lack of time spent on the game. I never said you were incorrect or that my opinion was superior or gospel, and if you got that impression from my post then that's down to you, but it certainly wasn't my intention.
Perhaps. It is late here. I mgiht easily have misunderstood you.
But I don't really see the value of your comment then. What where you hoping to get out of it? What point where you making.
He does say that. He does those thing. It doesn't really matter wherever it is whisy washy or not, it is part of his character now. If you find him interesting, you have to take that into account. If you don't really have any comment, on the specific thing I wasn't pointing out then what was the point. Because I am geniually not following your logic here.
Honestly, I've completely lost all comprehension of what we were talking about now it's gone on that long!
But I have said several times now, that I've taken on board all the things he's said and done. It's just my opinion that a fair chunk of it is never really explained or delved into due to time constraints. I'm not entirely sure why you seem to think that I'm hand waving his behaviour when I've already said I'd like answers from him.
For the record esper, I think you may have indeed misunderstood. I can say that I've heard Lola's take on this many times and she has ALWAYS said that she would like for Cullen to explain his words / actions (or lack thereof). She's not standing around with her fingers in her ears and stars in her eyes. No need to be rude.LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
esper wrote...
They are what we have and can discuss his character out off. If you don't like them, you are not discussing his character, but some imaginary character that does not exist.
Fact is Cullen said that line, and turned on Meridith that way and that unless it is retgonned it will always be written in his character. Closign your eyes and saying, bad writing doesn't change the fact that his character did it.
Amazingly enough, it is possible to like a character without agreeing with, or liking, the things he's said or done. Shock horror!
Regardless, I'm not repeating myself anymore. I've already told you several times that I want answers for the things he's said/done, he's not an angel and nor should he be. Oh, and FYI I never said it was "bad writing" I said that some of his actions (like the oblivious-ness etc) was down to the game not getting enough time, the devs said themselves that they realised they had forgotten to put in certain reactions etc, which is what I was refering to.
If he's a grade-A jerk then so be it, I still find him an interesting character.
I am not saying that. But you countered my precise explanation of why I didn't like him, with a 'it is just wishy washy' which makes it sound like your are closing your eyes and overlooking things, simply because you like.
If you like him despite it you could simply have said, 'I know that, but I still find him interesting'. That would be fair, I would have accepted that. As it is you simply attempted to counter my in story argument with something completely different.
That action was not oblivioness. It was him turning on Meridith in a way that completely cemented him as unlikeable forever in my mind. He simply crossed one of those specific things, I cannot personally forgive. I have never said anything about wherever I find his character interesting or not.
No, I didn't. I said that I personally felt his actions were wishy-washy due to lack of time spent on the game. I never said you were incorrect or that my opinion was superior or gospel, and if you got that impression from my post then that's down to you, but it certainly wasn't my intention.
Perhaps. It is late here. I mgiht easily have misunderstood you.
But I don't really see the value of your comment then. What where you hoping to get out of it? What point where you making.
He does say that. He does those thing. It doesn't really matter wherever it is whisy washy or not, it is part of his character now. If you find him interesting, you have to take that into account. If you don't really have any comment, on the specific thing I wasn't pointing out then what was the point. Because I am geniually not following your logic here.
Honestly, I've completely lost all comprehension of what we were talking about now it's gone on that long!
But I have said several times now, that I've taken on board all the things he's said and done. It's just my opinion that a fair chunk of it is never really explained or delved into due to time constraints. I'm not entirely sure why you seem to think that I'm hand waving his behaviour when I've already said I'd like answers from him.
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