136 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecrulis]

 

[Terminus Echoes]

[Morlath]

tickle267 wrote...

I see your MJ and raise you a rabbit.

I want that rabbit and my youngest cat to make babies!

[Ecrulis]

Morlath wrote...

tickle267 wrote...

I see your MJ and raise you a rabbit.

I want that rabbit and my youngest cat to make babies!

Take a seat right over here, I think it's time we talked about how biology works....

[Morlath]

Ecrulis wrote...

Morlath wrote...

tickle267 wrote...

I see your MJ and raise you a rabbit.

I want that rabbit and my youngest cat to make babies!

Take a seat right over here, I think it's time we talked about how biology works....

You have NO idea how bloody cute the cabbit would be! They have the same markings so I can imagine the baby already.

[Liamv2]

 https://encrypted-tb...djJuxe_2IteBM_g

Modifié par Liamv2, 15 mai 2013 - 06:49 .

[Ecrulis]

 

[Morlath]

tickle267 wrote...

are you picturing something like this?

http://images.tribe....ff-4f44bf36a65c

That's the one.

Now we just need it to be white and black, have a really weird personality, be madly in love with, and have the mistaken belief it's, a dog and it would be perfect.

[PsyrenY]

Auld Wulf wrote...


Of course, this also provides fo a new era of peace -- if you can understand a person's perspectives, and if you have access to their thoughts and feelings, and you're sound of mind and emotion yourself, then killing another person becomes a Herculean task. That's the thing -- the reason we're able to so easily asuage our conscience today is due to how easily we don't have to understand or imagine the suffering of other people. We can even purposefully limit our sepxosure to it to further limit our ability to imagine it. So it's easy to consider homeless people, fatally sick people, and so on as mere statistics.

Except, of course, someone you personally know could be fatally ill -- but then it becomes important. You understand them. With an exoself, essentially everyone becomes an extended family, since we're all able to better understand each other, and death then cannot simply be attributed to a statistic, as every life will matter.

This part I feel is key. A lot of people ("anti-enders" mostly) keep asking "how can Synthesis lead to peace? The Reapers are still here! People will hold grudges! Even if the Catalyst is right about the problem, people will still make new synthetics!"

The problem is empathy, and as you have pointed to here, it is scientfically impossible for either side - organic or synthetic - to feel empathy for every organic in the galaxy. For organics, our brains just do not have the capacity to feel empathy for a population that grows beyond a certain size. (For a humorous yet informative take on this phenomenon, I give you the Monkeysphere.) As for synthetics, they are even worse off - empathy is even further out of reach for them, and even in the rare case where they can simulate it - as we see with EDI - it ends up being fleeting as their attachments are to mortal people and concepts, and that's before we get into the problem of overriding those attachments through hacking or reprogramming. For instance, EVA and even EDI likely had loyalty towards TIM once, but the latter turned coat completely while the former was forcibly repurposed against her will.

Without empathy to temper their logic, Synthetics will make the kind of judgments the Catalyst and the Geth did. The Catalyst set out to preserve life while caring nothing for lives, and the Geth set out to drive away the Quarians while caring nothing for noncombatants. Both accomplished their goals, but in monstrous and horrific ways that made them extremely unsympathetic.

Organics do have empathy, but almost never for large groups of strangers. Even in cases where we care on an abstract level, this is expressed more in terms of donating to a charity or supporting a political figure who appears to have similar feelings, and little more than that. Such attachments are tenuous at best, and do little good in the long run without more in-depth connections.

[Liamv2]

Ecrulis wrote...

 

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

[dreamgazer]

Guys, this is actually one of Wulf's more compelling posts.

I don't agree with the conclusion, nor does it make a dent in my perception of Synthesis as applied to the narrative or my philosophical outlook. But his rationale and contextualization, despite some obvious guilt-tripping and tunnel-vision thinking, shouldn't be dumped on this time.

[Steelcan]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

I didn't read it, I don't care what you wrote about.
Synthesis is stupid.

.  I'm the first to call out Auld Wulf and criticize Synthesis, but at least read the damn OP.

[Ecrulis]

Then the question you should ask is does one post redeem a lifetime of board trolling?

wooooaaah, this is like totally an analogy of the endings......oh crap there's no tube for me to shoot...

Modifié par Ecrulis, 15 mai 2013 - 07:00 .

[Morlath]

dreamgazer wrote...

Guys, this is actually one of Wulf's more compelling posts.

I don't agree with the conclusion, nor does it make a dent in my perception of Synthesis as applied to the narrative or my philosophical outlook. But his rationale and contextualization, despite some obvious guilt-tripping and tunnel-vision thinking, shouldn't be dumped on this time.

Agree.

Humanity IS actually moving towards some type of synthesis existence.

[PsyrenY]

Ecrulis wrote...

Then the question you should ask is does one post redeem a lifetime of board trolling?

An eye for an eye leaves the world blind. Bullying a bully makes you no better than they are.

[GeneralMoskvin_2.0]

Ledgend1221 wrote...

I didn't read it, I don't care what you wrote about.
Synthesis is stupid.

https://encrypted-tb...XPUhsICe35v6kcA

"Synthesis is stoopid. I have a gun. I like to shoot this gun. Is all I need to know."

In case one's intelligence moves in the spheres of TF2's heavy, of course that is one's viewpoint.

Brilliant post OP. You deserve a medal just for the good read that gave me, but then I have to take it away from you again for distracting me from the Europe League final.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This is going to be good. We had the set up. ... So nature is the biggest tyrant? Hence, we should kill nature and join the reapers. This, in essence, is the argument.

Wulfie, you don't sell vacuum cleaners that have shampoo attachments, do you? There's a stain on the carpet in my studio. I dropped Chinese food on it 12 years ago. I cover it up with a throw rug. If you can get it out of the carpet, I'll buy one. Seriously. 10 vacuum cleaner salesmen have worked 4-5 hrs each on it and all have failed. Now word has gotten around and they don't even bother ringing my doorbell.

Nature is chaos. FWIW I have two close friends who are terminally ill. I'm partially disabled. And another friend of mine is also partially disabled. We do the best we can. I'm all for robotics that can replace limbs that no longer work, genetic research that can correct defects, and medical research that can find cures for these diseases. Still I'm not about to make every living thing in the universe 1/2 machine and 1/2 organic and side with the reapers.

The problem with your idea is that you are living in an imagined Utopia. The world isn't like that. This stuff isn't going to be available to everyone. We have over 7 billion people on this planet right now and that number is growing. You are speaking from the viewpoint of those privileged to be in a society of the "haves." What about the "have nots?" What will they do? There are more of them than the "haves."

There isn't going to be a magical switch that gives all of this wonderous technology to everyone. It isn't going to happen. That isn't the way people work. Those who are in power will retain power through control of this technology. New era of peace? Hardly.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 15 mai 2013 - 07:13 .

[Steelcan]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

This is going to be good. We had the set up. ... So nature is the biggest tyrant? Hence, we should kill nature and join the reapers. This, in essence, is the argument.

Wulfie, you don't sell vacuum cleaners that have shampoo attachments, do you? There's a stain on the carpet in my studio. I dropped Chinese food on it 12 years ago. I cover it up with a throw rug. If you can get it out of the carpet, I'll buy one. Seriously. 10 vacuum cleaner salesmen have worked 4-5 hrs each on it and all have failed. Now word has gotten around and they don't even bother ringing my doorbell.

Nature is chaos. FWIW I have two close friends who are terminally ill. I'm partially disabled. And another friend of mine is also partially disabled. We do the best we can. I'm all for robotics that can replace limbs that no longer work, genetic research that can correct defects, and medical research that can find cures for these diseases. Still I'm not about to make every living thing in the universe 1/2 machine and 1/2 organic and side with the reapers.

The problem with your idea is that you are living in an imagined Utopia. The world isn't like that. This stuff isn't going to be available to everyone. We have over 7 billion people on this planet right now and that number is growing. You are speaking from the viewpoint of those privileged to be in a society of the "haves." What about the "have nots?" What will they do? There are going to be more of them than the "haves."

There isn't going to be a magical switch that gives all of this wonderous technology to everyone. It isn't going to happen. That isn't the way people work. Those who are in power will retain power through control of this technology. New era of peace? Hardly.

Then the "have nots" realize they outnumber the "haves".

Then we prove Marx right when the world is awash in revolution against the priveliged.

[MegaSovereign]

I agreed with a lot of what you said until the 2nd half.

Life is meaningless. Nature presents challenges as a way for us to forget this harsh truth. If we reach singularity, it's because we have individually solved the greatest challenges of nature. Synthesis provides a fantasy solution in that it simultaneously solves a plethora of problems while irreversibly changing the balance of nature. That is why I don't like Synthesis, because it's pure, boring fantasy.

[Argolas]

First a compliment OP, you produced some actual content and tried to keep arrogance and insults out of it. That's how we can discuss.

I may make a more elaborate response later, for now it'll just be brief.

Technology is not the answer, although it can help, it's a mere means to an end. Connecting people only helps if we are willing to listen. We often aren't- scientists and average people alike.

Integrating with technology at a reasonable pace is indeed an inevitable process. Resistance against it is futile in the long run, however that doesn't mean it's bad. Generally speaking, progress tends to be good and resistance against it tends to be bad, but both are justified to exist. Skepticism against new dangerous technology leads to careful consideration how much work it still needs which can prevent catastrophes. If you find a cure for cancer of course it should be used, however don't release it before you know about the side effects.

The idea behind Synthesis is not an abomination. Synthesis is an abomination.

[Massa FX]

The act of synthesis took away free will. The right to choose our own fate is fundamental. Shepard's choice overruled billions of others right to choose. There is nothing natural about that. How this is OK for players is disturbing. What if the effect of synthesis turned organic skin inside out? Or removed bones, or added tails and extra eyes? Or removed eyes but added ears where eyes normally exist. Exaggerated examples for a reason. Forcing synthesis on the universe is ....

Its already been said enough times in enough threads.

Modifié par Massa FX, 15 mai 2013 - 07:21 .