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Did the release of the Extended Cut set a bad precedent for the video game industry?

Débuté par Modius Prime , mai 16 2013 09:53

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#51
AresKeith
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:03

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magnetite wrote...

Greylycantrope wrote...

I'm assuming you mean IT.


I made no mention of those words. I simply said there was more to the ending than people realized and they essentially brought this whole situation upon themselves. Although most people would not like to take responsibility for their actions and just say it's an issue with the game or otherwise. If they had taken their time with the game, then they wouldn't have been as disappointed.


And what is that?

#52
GreyLycanTrope
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:03

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magnetite wrote...
I made no mention of those words.

Is that not what you mean by missing clues though?
I might be misinterpreting, but I've read veiled phrasing like this before when describing the subject.
I'm asking for clarification in what you think people missed exactly.

#53
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:04

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I didn't specifically say IT though. You guys need to read my posts more. Just because there was more to it, doesn't mean I was talking about that thing.

Besides, from a software point of view, Mass Effect 3 has reached it's end of life cycle. Any further questions or explanations about the ending, are up to the user to figure out at this point. Bioware will not be providing any more DLC or content to explain things. 

That's the thing, most people here don't want to dig through codex entries and use all the clues in the game to find the answers, and just want everything spoon-fed to them.

Modifié par magnetite, 16 mai 2013 - 11:09 .

#54
GreyLycanTrope
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:09

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magnetite wrote...

I didn't specifically say IT though. You guys need to read my posts more. Just because there was more to it, doesn't mean I was talking about that thing.

Besides, from a software point of view, Mass Effect 3 has reached it's end of life cycle. Any further questions or explanations about the ending, are up to the user to figure out.

What are you talking about specifically? Please enough with the vague answers.
If it's up to the user then there's no right way to interperate it, so saying people are missing something and it's their own fault seems a bit odd.

#55
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:12

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Greylycantrope wrote...
What are you talking about specifically? Please enough with the vague answers.
If it's up to the user then there's no right way to interperate it, so saying people are missing something and it's their own fault seems a bit odd.


Nope, you need to take responsibility for your own actions. If you're watching a movie or a reading a book, if something isn't explained too much, you aren't going to demand to the filmmaker or author to expand their book or movie to explain it in great detail for you. Some people are capable of using their imagination or critical thinking skills to figure stuff out. They don't need the author of the story to spell out everything.

There are two types of people in this world. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data, and those who can't. You are the latter, rather the former.

Don't tell the whole story

Modifié par magnetite, 16 mai 2013 - 11:17 .

#56
GreyLycanTrope
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:15

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Their own actions in terms of not finding these "clues" compelling? Sounds more like talking about making things up as opposed to the creators leaving something to find. You're still avoiding the question main question btw. No matter, fairly sure I have my answer.

#57
Clayless
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:17

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Yes and no.

It set a bad precedent that it risks stifling the creativity of the gaming industry. The Retake movement made it incredibly clear that they don't believe game developers should be able to create the story they want. Not all of the Retake movement of course, some were satisfied by the EC, but you still hear far too much mocking from people because Bioware created the story they wanted, even to the extent where some people delude themselves into believing Bioware is insulting them.

But also no, as the EC was an Extended Cut of the ending. It wasn't an overhaul, a submission to mob pressure, and it shows that it's alright for game developers to improve their work due to feedback, and possibly even a message to publishers and gamers that delays can be a good thing.

Modifié par Robosexual, 16 mai 2013 - 11:17 .

#58
Skvindt
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:25

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Lt Davo wrote...

The bad precedent was the original ending.


I agree, in the sense of releasing an incomplete game.

#59
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:25

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Well the thing regarding the Extended Cut was Bioware only wanted to take into account constructive feedback. So rewriting the ending or deleting certain characters from the game (eg. Starchild) wasn't really constructive. People didn't even try to figure out the Starchild's logic. Just because it doesn't align with what Shepard had done, doesn't make it a plot hole. I mean, most of what he was saying (eg. synthetics can't get along. Harvest everyone and preserve in Reaper form), pretty much says he's allied with the Reapers. That is not a plot hole in the slightest. Most people claiming this ending is full of plot holes probably don't even know what a plot hole is.

Like I said, most of the answers were in the game before the Extended Cut happened. People just didn't pick up on it. It's a user error rather than a problem with the game. Most people like to think it's an issue with the game, but it's not.

At any rate, if people are still going on about this a year after release, they need to accept that Bioware has tried, listened, and unfortunately, wasn't able to satisfy those who were upset.

However, people seem to do the whole "well I'm not leaving until I'm satisfied" approach to this. From a business standpoint, Bioware has the right to refuse service at this point. Doesn't matter how big a "fan" people claim to be. If they were actual passionate fans of this series, they would use every single resource and piece of information to figure that ending out. Instead of giving up after 5 minutes and demanding a patch to fix everything.

They are not going to waste any more money trying to satisfy people. I mean they spent probably a couple million on the Extended Cut (not sure the exact figure), and people weren't satisfied. So why should they go and waste another couple million to do it again. Spending any more money at this point is a fool's errand and can only do more harm than good. In the business world, you can't satisfy everyone. People will just have to accept things and move on.

Accept the things they cannot change; change the things they can, and the reason to know the difference.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is insanity. Mass Effect fans are officially insane at this point.

Modifié par magnetite, 16 mai 2013 - 11:33 .

#60
Clayless
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:31

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magnetite wrote...

Well the thing regarding the Extended Cut was Bioware only wanted to take into account constructive feedback. So rewriting the ending or deleting certain characters from the game (eg. Starchild) wasn't really constructive.

Like I said, most of the answers were in the game before the Extended Cut happened. People just didn't pick up on it. It's a user error rather than a problem with the game. Most people like to think it's an issue with the game, but it's not.


That's one of the things I noticed. If you see pre-EC the Catalyst clearly states the Crucible changed him, yet you saw a lot of questions asking why the Catalyst did what he did. In the EC he does give a lot of new information, but he also just repeats himself a lot because apparently people don't listen.

#61
AresKeith
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:33

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We know your talking about IT magnetite, your name isn't that hard to remember

#62
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:36

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I didn't even say the words IT. Read my posts. There's no mention of indoctrination or otherwise. Just because there's more to it doesn't mean that.

Modifié par magnetite, 16 mai 2013 - 11:38 .

#63
AlexMBrennan
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:40

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No. "Setting a bad precedent" implies that this is a new thing and that is absurd - it happens all the time in the movie industry, and Bioware itself has been changing their games based on player feedback as far back as Baldur's Gate (players didn't like having to recruit the evil thief so they added chaotic good thief Imoen).

And that is simply the way things are because video games and movies are still a business which has to make money - if you can make money making that game you've always dreamt of making then that's great, but in the if you care about your artistic integrity then you have to be prepared to do it as a hobby and I can't see many people in the industry doing that.

Well the thing regarding the Extended Cut was Bioware only wanted to take into account constructive feedback. So rewriting the ending or deleting certain characters from the game (eg. Starchild) wasn't really constructive

Wikipedia to the rescue:

Constructive criticism is the process of offering valid and well-reasoned opinions about the work of others, usually involving both positive and negative comments, in a friendly manner rather than an oppositional one. In collaborative work, this kind of criticism is often a valuable tool in raising and maintaining performance standards.

Your point - that it's not constructive if the recommendation is to cut something from the work - is just plain silly; you are basically redefining "constructive criticism" to exclude anything which would be needed to salvage the endings.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 16 mai 2013 - 11:43 .

#64
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:42

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AlexMBrennan wrote...

And that is simply the way things are because video games and movies are still a business which has to make money - if you can make money making that game you've always dreamt of making then that's great, but in the if you care about your artistic integrity then you have to be prepared to do it as a hobby and I can't see many people in the industry doing that.


If people keep treating games like products, it'll just keep getting rewritten and rewritten. Sometimes people around here may not know what is best for a movie or a game. They have no experience in writing or video gaming industry. In the words of someone who used to work for Bioware they stated "stop thinking your a producer".

#65
AlexMBrennan
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:46

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Sometimes people around here may not know what is best for a movie or a game

But I do know what I want - which is not the kind of ending Bioware wrote for ME3. So if they want more of my money they'll have to ditch their artistic integrity and make the kind of game I want.

They have no experience in writing or video gaming industry

It takes great skill to build a skyscraper, but it takes very little to recognise that a pile of rubble is not a well-built skyscraper.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 16 mai 2013 - 11:47 .

#66
chemiclord
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:48

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It's kinda funny. This entire debacle FEELS unprecedented... but it really isn't. The only thing unprecedented about this was the degree and the intensity of the fan rage. Nothing that happened was particularly unheard of.

#67
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:50

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This isn't about what you want Alex. When someone writes a story, they write it for their entire audience to see. You have to take into account everyone who will potentially buy this game. Sadly, many of the fans claim that they are the majority of the people who play this game and their opinion is the only one which is correct.

It's kinda funny. This entire debacle FEELS unprecedented... but it
really isn't. The only thing unprecedented about this was the degree
and the intensity of the fan rage. Nothing that happened was
particularly unheard of.


Many people who are upset over something don't tend to think rationally. If they aren't thinking rationally, their judgement can be a little clouded. Same goes for their thinking.

Modifié par magnetite, 16 mai 2013 - 11:57 .

#68
JamesFaith
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:50

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AlexMBrennan wrote...

No. "Setting a bad precedent" implies that this is a new thing and that is absurd - it happens all the time in the movie industry, and Bioware itself has been changing their games based on player feedback as far back as Baldur's Gate (players didn't like having to recruit the evil thief so they added chaotic good thief Imoen).


Source?

And this change came after releasing game or during testing of game, which is still part of creation process?

#69
chemiclord
Posté 16 mai 2013 - 11:52

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magnetite wrote...

This isn't about what you want Alex. When someone writes a story, they write it for their entire audience to see. You have to take into account everyone who will potentially buy this game. Sadly, many of the fans claim that they are the majority of the fanbase and their opinion is the only one which is correct.


That said, he's not wrong either.  If Bioware isn't making the kind of games he enjoys, he is under no obligation whatsoever to support them.

#70
Cainhurst Crow
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 12:08

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We shall see. I know I am bookmarking a few threads for when bioware releases dragon age 3 and people complain about what is in that game. It will be funny to see if any of the complainers will be consistent with what they wanted pre-release and what they say post release.

#71
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 12:11

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AlexMBrennan wrote...

It takes great skill to build a skyscraper, but it takes very little to recognise that a pile of rubble is not a well-built skyscraper.


You can't honestly believe that Bioware made an incoherent ending and just let it go for an entire year. If there was that many plot holes and such with it, they would have delayed the game for another 3 months to fix it. Sadly, Bioware has defended this ending with common sense, and stated the game and it's ending was finished many months before hand.

Obviously people around here don't tend to use common sense.

#72
KingZayd
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 12:22

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magnetite wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It takes great skill to build a skyscraper, but it takes very little to recognise that a pile of rubble is not a well-built skyscraper.


You can't honestly believe that Bioware made an incoherent ending and just let it go for an entire year. If there was that many plot holes and such with it, they would have delayed the game for another 3 months to fix it. Sadly, Bioware has defended this ending with common sense, and stated the game and it's ending was finished many months before hand.

Obviously people around here don't tend to use common sense.


Except they did.

#73
The Night Mammoth
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 12:23

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magnetite wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

It takes great skill to build a skyscraper, but it takes very little to recognise that a pile of rubble is not a well-built skyscraper.


You can't honestly believe that Bioware made an incoherent ending and just let it go for an entire year. If there was that many plot holes and such with it, they would have delayed the game for another 3 months to fix it. Sadly, Bioware has defended this ending with common sense, and stated the game and it's ending was finished many months before hand.

Obviously people around here don't tend to use common sense.


Before what? Release? Those few months before release weren't spent developing the game, they had to finish it months before to prepare it for distrubution.

Also, Hudson said nothing about common sense in relation to the ending, in that article. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 17 mai 2013 - 12:29 .

#74
Guest_magnetite_*
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 12:30

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The real problem with this ending is the fans.

The Night Mammoth wrote...
Also, Hudson said nothing about common sense in relation to the ending, in that article. 


You sure about that?

"I think a lot of the common sense is prevailing," Hudson told Digital Trends.


Modifié par magnetite, 17 mai 2013 - 12:32 .

#75
Tron Mega
Posté 17 mai 2013 - 12:31

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i miss the days when mass effect was good.
Retourner dans Story, Campaign, and Characters


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