36 réponses à ce sujet

[crimzontearz]

shodiswe wrote...

Just immagine this forum when Bioware does this and tells us Destroy wasn't the most popular ending even if a thousand or so people had voted in favor for it on the BSN

The data from the millions of ME3 players might differ considerably from the select few BSN people who came here to complain about the endings because Destroy wasn't good enough, wasn't clear enough or that it destroyed the relays. Did Shepard survive or not? Those are the majority of people who came here, the people worried about the Destroy ending. And coincidentaly the originators of the IT.

why do you think that data was never released? Because if need be they began just lie about it to suit their needs, you know like the famous spreadsheets

[game-zerox]

Picking a canon ending, making every endings happen or just retconing all of them will make a glorious-- You know what? I'm not even going to finish that. That would be just too predictable and I would need to be far enough to get a good view of that one.

[Objectivity]

They can keep all three main endings if they set the game far enough in the future. They can make synthetics be recreated if you chose Destory and simply add a "glowing skin" texture for synthesis and never reference it in any other way.

[AlexMBrennan]

I don't think it's any worse than any other way of choosing a canonical ending, and at least this way the ****** of the least number of people.

The data from the millions of ME3 players might differ considerably from the select few BSN people who came here to complain

 Rule of thumb is that you never hear from 95% of angry customers - they just leave quietly and cease being customers. ME3's retake movement was 3% of total sales - do the maths; it is clear that something went badly wrong here.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 17 mai 2013 - 01:57 .

[CrutchCricket]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Infamous 2, whatever its other merits, falls a long way short of any story Bioware has crafted.

Does it? Last I checked it pulled off a heroic sacrifice, an bittersweet ending, eliciting emotional investement in the characters and world without forced symbolism, meaningful character development and an ending that is visually vastly different in more ways than a simple pallete swap, without the need of "closure" DLC.

So tell me again how it "falls way short" of ME3.

Infamous 2's only flaw is that it railroads you into a side on the moral choice-o-meter. Evil Cole can't suddenly have a change of heart and sacrifice himself and Good Cole can't suddenly become a selfish ******.

Anyway, to the OP: I doubt trophy information is the sole reason for determining the ending. What does that even mean? If I remember correctly you get a trophy for finishing either side. If they have an overwhelming amount of players who only have the good trophy it could be that the numbers merely represent the so-called "casual gamers" who could only be bothered to play it once. In games where there's a distinctive "good vs evil" moral choice, the good choice is almost always considered canon. This data may have been a factor, but I don't think it was the only factor. Besides, the last shot of the good ending does open up the possibility of "maybe" with the question shaped lightning. If they wanted to, they could bring Cole back.

Now Bioware has even less of a reason to do this kind of thing. First off they keep claiming their choices aren't about good or evil. Second they keep claiming there is no canon as far as choices are concerned. And third, again ending data isn't sufficiently conclusive. The first time I got to the ending I just kept walking forward in a daze until I hit the synthesis beam. Then I didn't touch the game for six months. Clearly the data Bioware recieved from that is not indicative of my real preferences. Not to mention, again casual gamers who'll just play once, pick whatever and then move on to the latest COD or whatever.

I think relying on this type of data alone isn't a good idea. And in Bioware's case, declaring canon on choices, particularly on the nuclear landmine that is the endings is the worst idea they could have. For better or worse, they're not touching the endings again with a ten-foot pole. Since the damage is done beyond repair this becomes the best policy.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 17 mai 2013 - 02:42 .

[TK514]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Infamous 2, whatever its other merits, falls a long way short of any story Bioware has crafted.

Does it? Last I checked it pulled off a heroic sacrifice, an bittersweet ending, eliciting emotional investement in the characters and world without forced symbolism, meaningful character development and an ending that is visually vastly different in more ways than a simple pallete swap, without the need of "closure" DLC.

So tell me again how it "falls way short" of ME3.

Infamous 2's only flaw is that it railroads you into a side on the moral choice-o-meter. Evil Cole can't suddenly have a change of heart and sacrifice himself and Good Cole can't suddenly become a selfish ******.

Anyway, to the OP: I doubt trophy information is the sole reason for determining the ending. What does that even mean? If I remember correctly you get a trophy for finishing either side. If they have an overwhelming amount of players who only have the good trophy it could be that the numbers merely represent the so-called "casual gamers" who could only be bothered to play it once. In games where there's a distinctive "good vs evil" moral choice, the good choice is almost always considered canon. This data may have been a factor, but I don't think it was the only factor. Besides, the last shot of the good ending does open up the possibility of "maybe" with the question shaped lightning. If they wanted to, they could bring Cole back.

The trophies have a time/date stamp, and they're using the one most people did first.  And while it may not be perfect solution, or even an 'import your save state', at least it's an attempt at providing a sense of player agency that continues between entries in the franchise.

I definitely agree with your assessment of I2 when compared to ME3, particularly in the success of the endings.  Though I admit, I hoped they would have run with the lightning strike 'maybe'.  Cole's death was appropriate and meaningful, so I don't regret it, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have him back.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Actually Bioware has the numbers and they posted the numbers recently. Note that these numbers do not count those who played offline. Those people don't count. They know which ending was the most popular. They did post the popularity of stuff. Destroy was the most popular ending with slightly over 50% choosing it. Peace between the Quarians and the Geth was most popular. followed by siding with the Geth, followed by siding with the Quarians. In any event in around 70% of the games the Quarians are still around at the end.

So they could canonize Destroy going into the next installment. It would make the most sense. The reapers wouldn't be around and that's a big plus.You wouldn't have to explain the space magic of synthesis. You wouldn't have to worry about a god-emperor with a screw loose and an army of reapers starting harvesting again. You could start the game 50 years after the war and still have signs of the war around. There was a lot of devastation. Liara could disappear as the Shadow Broker. Wrex could rule Tuchanka. Everyone else is too old to do anything.

[PsyrenY]

CrutchCricket wrote...

So tell me again how it "falls way short" of ME3.

Two words: Rannoch, Tuchanka.

Infamous cannot hope to compare. And if you're going to dismiss double-digit hours of story due to the last 5 minutes, I feel really sad for you.

[CrutchCricket]

TK514 wrote...
The trophies have a time/date stamp, and they're using the one most people did first.  And while it may not be perfect solution, or even an 'import your save state', at least it's an attempt at providing a sense of player agency that continues between entries in the franchise.

But that proves even less. I recall having a conversation with many gaming friends on which "side" they prefer to do first  in these types of games. The old "good then evil to make you feel like a fallen hero" or "even then good to make you feel like you're redeeming yourself" debate. I think even Mark Meer referenced something similar in an interview.

The point is which ending you complete first is hardly indicative of your overall preference. Especially in games where the morality is railroaded like in inFamous. Which ending you completed first may not have anything to do with your preference, it's just that at your first choice moment, you decided to be good as opposed to a dick, and now you've gotta stick with it to get the best upgrades.

Optimystic_X wrote...
And if you're going to dismiss double-digit hours of story due to the last 5 minutes, I feel really sad for you.

Sorry. If I'm having the absolute best dinner ever , both courses are just the bomb and everything is delicious (which, let's not kid ourselves ME3 is not, in this metaphor)... and at the desert, just before the check someone ****s in my sundae, that's a ruined dinner. What people remember won't be the amazing main course or the appetizers, it'll be the turd they slipped in just when we were feeling most content. So yeah, in that case, I'd rather skip the alleged five-star pretentious bull**** and go for the old familiar neighborhood diner- good, consistent food throughout, that knows what it is (and is appreciated for it) and doesn't try to be what it's not.

Now I'm hungry.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Well, I guess the choices really don't matter. Ah well, at least one of my playthroughs get's an import, and it's not like bioware rpg's or great rpg's in general haven't done this before, like kotor and kotor 2.

[Phatose]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Infamous 2's only flaw is that it railroads you into a side on the moral choice-o-meter. Evil Cole can't suddenly have a change of heart and sacrifice himself and Good Cole can't suddenly become a selfish ******.

It's been a while, but I actually think you can.  If anything, it's made easier because Nix is promoting the good ending, and Kuo the bad one.  You definitely get a choice though no matter what you've been doing.

[CrutchCricket]

Phatose wrote...
It's been a while, but I actually think you can.  If anything, it's made easier because Nix is promoting the good ending, and Kuo the bad one.  You definitely get a choice though no matter what you've been doing.

Nope. First time playing, I was all good Karma and when the ending choice was presented I wanted to do the evil one because I liked Kuo and wasn't keen on sacrificing her (or myself). The game then quit the mission and told me to do bad **** to switch my karma to the dark side (which needless to say would've been ****ing difficult at the end of the game with all good deeds done).

You have to be good to choose the good ending and evil to choose the evil ending. They should've made it like the ray sphere choice near the end of the first one. You can activate it again even at full good Karma. Doing so makes you instantly evil with no way to redeem yourself.