185 réponses à ce sujet

[mtmercydave09]

MegaSovereign wrote...

mtmercydave09 wrote...

lecho_himself wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

I thought this was a great scene.

But still totally off the hook considering all of Joker's risky pickups (he took two squadmembers LITERALLY in front of Harbringers nose!).

And then what? Gave up in the most important moment? So don't get it.

Exactly, and giving up goes against not just Joker's personality, but every single one of the characters personalities.  None of them ever want to give up, yet they have the opportunity to get Shepard and they just all drop the ball.  Just another reason why the ending sucked and MEHEM was better.

Even if the Normandy exploded and everyone died on their way to save Shepard on the Citadel, I think I still would have preferred that to them leaving Shepard behind and crash landing on the weirdo planet.  At least in that way it would have stuck with the true character of all the squadmates in having Shepards back.  

Huh?

Both the MEHEM and the EC made that scene stupid. There wasn't really any solid evidence that the Crucible was going to backfire and kill the fleet, and even if it did then all attempts at escaping the blast would have been futile considering the range of the device. Likewise, there was nothing that suggested beforehand that the Citadel would be destroyed and therefore kill Shepard (if he wasn't already dead).

No one had to die. What the fleets could have and should have done was stay clear of collapsing/exploding Reapers. That's it.

I agree that nobody had to die (I actually prefer it that way), but it just seems out of character for everyone to just pack it in and leave.  I think we actually agree.

I was just saying that if everyone died trying to rescue Shepard from the Citadel, that would have made more sense than crash landing on weirdo planet and leaving Shep behind.  Everyone living though however is my 1st preference.

[ardensia]

I don't get it. I've gone through the ending a few times with a few different combinations, and I've never had any squadmates tell Joker anything. He just furiously works the controls for a bit, prettymuch ignores the incoming retreat order from Hackett, and then his movements slow and he hangs his head, grimaces, and swears.

It was actually pretty poignant, since it's not that far back in the game that he has the conversation with Shep that dissolves into him admitting his survivor's guilt for Shep dying back at the beginning of ME2, and now he has to leave again while Shep is maybe dying. Plus, since there's no squadmates, it's not like he's caving to peer pressure. He has to decide to save the Normandy and her crew all on his own.

[goose2989]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

"Quick! We have to run from the beam that's going to catch us anyway!"

Plus, how did the Normandy crew (and the entire fleet) know that the Crucible blast was going to cause damage to them? Convenience? Never!

Modifié par goose2989, 18 mai 2013 - 03:44 .

[remydat]

goose2989 wrote...

Plus, how did the Normandy crew (and the entire fleet) know that the Crucible blast was going to cause damage to them? Convenience? Never!

This is illogical.  The thing is designed to wipe out the Reapers.  The logical conclusion having never fired it is that it will take out anything in it's path.  Do you think Hackett or anyone thinks the Space Magic will just kill Reapers and not them if they are hit by it?

Modifié par remydat, 18 mai 2013 - 04:02 .

[Ryzaki]

If they can outrun that thing the Reapers (who FTL drives are BETTER) can certainly outrun it making the weapon useless.

[remydat]

They built the weapon because they had no other realistic alternative to win. It may very well be useless but what choice do they have?

They get out of the way because the thing supposedly can kill Reapers. The Reapers might end up running away too but does that mean they should just stay there and get hit?

[lecho_himself]

My ideal script for this scene looks like:

*Shepard hits the Destroy button*
Shepard: I need extraction, I'm on the Cita... [passes out as the thing starts to blow]
Joker: Damn it! [rapidly turns the Normandy]
*the events from original ending: the Crucible docking, space fight etc.*
*Shepard breathe (the original "Shepard lives" moment)*
*Gunfire blasting, light approaching*
*Someone grabs Shepard, pulls him out of the rubble and drags him to the ship*
Vega: The N7 isn't leaving anyone behind, Commander!
[random squadmemeber]: Go Joker, GO!
*then the normal ending can proceed with Normandy escaping the beam and the Reapers losing*

Of course that would be the "Shepard lives" ending? It would be so poethic if the one to extract Shepard wont be Garrus, Liara, Wrex etc but Vega, along with the line he say, considering his Alliance history. I would tear up on this. Totally. THE hero "Independence day" ending I expected.

Modifié par lecho_himself, 18 mai 2013 - 07:09 .

[Ryzaki]

remydat wrote...

They built the weapon because they had no other realistic alternative to win. It may very well be useless but what choice do they have?

They get out of the way because the thing supposedly can kill Reapers. The Reapers might end up running away too but does that mean they should just stay there and get hit?

It makes running away stupid. What if the stupid light did nothing? Then they just abandoned Earth for no reason.

Uh...yeah. There's no guarantee that sucker'll even kill the Reapers to begin with remember? Everyone packing their bags just because the thing was activated was silly. And yes actually running away is silly because it's a waste of energy if the Reapers can escape from the beam everything is pointless and they're screwed. Full stop.

I.E. If they could actually feasibly outrun the beam the beam itself is now pointless.

There's no sense in them retreating. Either the thing works and running away isn't possible or it doesn't and they have to do a last stand anyway.

They don't even know what the beam does for certain.

God just thinking about this reminds me of how derptastic ME3's ending was.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 07:15 .

[AresKeith]

Ryzaki wrote...

remydat wrote...

They built the weapon because they had no other realistic alternative to win. It may very well be useless but what choice do they have?

They get out of the way because the thing supposedly can kill Reapers. The Reapers might end up running away too but does that mean they should just stay there and get hit?

It makes running away stupid. What if the stupid light did nothing? Then they just abandoned Earth for no reason.

Uh...yeah. There's no guarantee that sucker'll even kill the Reapers to begin with remember? Everyone packing their bags just because the thing was activated was silly.

That was my issues with them saying they don't know what the Crucible will do

Because what if it was a Reaper trap that made them stronger or it blows up Earth

[Arcian]

David7204 wrote...

And I get freakin' Javik. My absolute least favorite squadmate out of all 20 or so, and his voice is the last one I hear.

That is because you are a filthy primitive that needs educating.

[KiwiQuiche]

simfamSP wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

"Quick! We have to run from the beam that's going to catch us anyway!"

Yeah gotta love that logic.

Tell me you'd stand still at an oncoming tidal wave and then talk about logic.

No one knew how that beam was going to work, and if they did, they sure as hell weren't going to stick around to see what was going on.

That's what you get when you are too retarded to even figure out what the gigantic thing you just attatched to the Citadel even does.

[Ajensis]

Ryzaki wrote...

If they can outrun that thing the Reapers (who FTL drives are BETTER) can certainly outrun it making the weapon useless.

Plus, the Charon relay is all the way out where Pluto is hiding. I wonder if anyone's ever done the number-crunch to calculate how much time it would take the Normandy to disengage from the battle around Earth and reach the relay. Everything about that evacuation scene is just bad

[wiccame]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

remydat wrote...

What is the alternative?  Stay put and die?  Of all the things to complain about this is one of the worst.

Well not going into FTL would make sense. the beam doesn't do that much damage and it's going to affect you anyway. Why run from it?

They don't know what the beam is going to do to them. Shepard is the only one that knows.

[CronoDragoon]

Ryzaki wrote...

It makes running away stupid. What if the stupid light did nothing? Then they just abandoned Earth for no reason.

They abandoned Earth because their entire strategy was predicated on the Crucible. Staying and fighting with no plan in some Braveheart suicide attack sounds romantic but is really stupid. If the Crucible works, running away hurts nothing. If the Crucible doesn't work, they have to retreat ANYWAY.

[Mr.House]

It's a stupid scene filled with the ultimate character assassination of Joker and any squadmate who tells Joker to leave.

I feel sorry for anyone seeing their LI say that to Joker.

Modifié par Mr.House, 18 mai 2013 - 03:03 .

[Ryzaki]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It makes running away stupid. What if the stupid light did nothing? Then they just abandoned Earth for no reason.

They abandoned Earth because their entire strategy was predicated on the Crucible. Staying and fighting with no plan in some Braveheart suicide attack sounds romantic but is really stupid. If the Crucible works, running away hurts nothing. If the Crucible doesn't work, they have to retreat ANYWAY.

nope.

Shep can ask hackett what they do if the crucible doesn't work. He flat out says they'll make their last stand there.

So no.

It's not a braveheart when the damn thing is going to catch you regardless. Only thing running away does is worsen your position.

Staying there if the beam does nothing at least allows you to keep fighting. Running away if the beam does nothing means you've now lost a good deal of your troops and now are somewhere in space with a bunch of troops (And you lack your ground troops because they got ditched) with a horde of Reapers probably hunting you down now since you lack any ways to defeat them.

It's a slow death to a quick one.

And if the beam does anything you can't outrun it (frankly one would think going towards the mass relays would make it worse since the damn thing travels via the relays).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 03:38 .

[Ryzaki]

simfamSP wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

"Quick! We have to run from the beam that's going to catch us anyway!"

Yeah gotta love that logic.

Tell me you'd stand still at an oncoming tidal wave and then talk about logic.

No one knew how that beam was going to work, and if they did, they sure as hell weren't going to stick around to see what was going on.

If my options were stand in a tidal wave fighting someone trying to kill my kid or run away and leave both behind with no clue that would happen to them? Yeah I'd fight the wave. The thing is gonna catch me anyway might as well be sure my kid is safe.

Plus it's obviously a coordinated retreat. An emotional response has little to do with it.

Which is still stupid. They can't outrun the beam.

Why leave STILL GET CAUGHT and now not know what happened to earth? It's stupid.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 03:41 .

[Ryzaki]

Ugh dp

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 03:37 .

[Solaxe]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

A lot depends on who you have with you while on the run to the beam- if they get fried, they don't tell Joker to hoof it.

But man, I loved the fact my team abandoned Shepard to die on the Citadel. True companions that bunch.

Says the person who picked Refuse... dat hypocricy

[Ticonderoga117]

remydat wrote...
Oh and they know it doesn't do much damage how exactly? So this thing is going to kill Reapers but magically they know in their heart of hearts it does not affect them. Guess Shep had the convo with the Catalyst on Galactic speaker phones.

How do they know it's going to do anything? Oh, that's right, they don't! The only hope they had was the Catalyst was going to make it only effect Reapers and not blow up the system they use it in, which is handy, because Earth is right THERE!

Let's face it, the entire Crucible plot line is ****ing stupid.

[Ticonderoga117]

wiccame wrote...

They don't know what the beam is going to do to them. Shepard is the only one that knows.

The beam effects the entire galaxy. You can't outrun it.

[Ticonderoga117]

simfamSP wrote...
Tell me you'd stand still at an oncoming tidal wave and then talk about logic.

No one knew how that beam was going to work, and if they did, they sure as hell weren't going to stick around to see what was going on.

The beam effects the entire Galaxy. It'll be like more like standing next to an active volcano that isn't the slow lava types. You can try to run, but you're not going to make it. You are screwed because you thought standing next to an active volcano was a good idea!

[Mr.House]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

simfamSP wrote...
Tell me you'd stand still at an oncoming tidal wave and then talk about logic.

No one knew how that beam was going to work, and if they did, they sure as hell weren't going to stick around to see what was going on.

The beam effects the entire Galaxy. It'll be like more like standing next to an active volcano that isn't the slow lava types. You can try to run, but you're not going to make it. You are screwed because you thought standing next to an active volcano was a good idea!

Best post of the day!