185 réponses à ce sujet

[shodiswe]

Ryzaki wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

"Quick! We have to run from the beam that's going to catch us anyway!"

Yeah gotta love that logic.

The problem is they didn't know it would be able to Catch them in FTL.... Even if that would make sense, how else would it be able to affect all the Reapers in the galaxy in a reasonable timespan...

If it can't catch them if they go FTL it wouldn't be able to catch Reapers that went FTL making the whole thing pointless.

It still makes sense to want ot put some distance between themselves and the energy burst, it's Always strongest at it's Point of origin. Least that how it works in the real World... Who knows what happens to those masseffect manipulated pulses/explosions.

[Linkenski]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

"Quick! We have to run from the beam that's going to catch us anyway!"

Bear in mind that at this point Shepard is still the only person who knows what the crucible blast does.

[Ticonderoga117]

shodiswe wrote...
It still makes sense to want ot put some distance between themselves and the energy burst, it's Always strongest at it's Point of origin. Least that how it works in the real World... Who knows what happens to those masseffect manipulated pulses/explosions.

Considering the beam is faster than the Normandy in FTL... I don't think this beam works on the same principles as anything else. The best bet is to hide behind a planet. Like oh, say, Earth. Still doesn't matter though, since it effects the entire Galaxy. Somehow.

[Ticonderoga117]

Linkenski wrote...

Bear in mind that at this point Shepard is still the only person who knows what the crucible blast does.

It doesn't matter. This thing effects the entire Galaxy. That's the whole point! This thing since day 1 was the be all anti-Reaper weapon. Since the Reapers are spread across the Galaxy, you need to effect the entire thing. Or atleast, all of the major planets: Earth, Palaven, Sur'Kesh (I think), Thessia, Kar'shan.

Worst case it blows up everything. Then why are we blowing up Earth? I thought we were trying to save Earth. That was the whole point of this game.

Best case: It blows up only the Reapers (which is what EVERYONE but Cerberus was banking on). Why are we running?

[MegaSovereign]

The scene is only there because people had issues with Joker randomly leaving in the original cut.

I suspect that Mac Walters handled this part of the Extended Cut since it fits with his writing philosophy of acknowledging contrivances but not actually masking them. Kind of like how he handled the Crucible's introduction on Mars.

[remydat]

Ryzaki wrote...

It makes running away stupid. What if the stupid light did nothing? Then they just abandoned Earth for no reason.

Uh...yeah. There's no guarantee that sucker'll even kill the Reapers to begin with remember? Everyone packing their bags just because the thing was activated was silly. And yes actually running away is silly because it's a waste of energy if the Reapers can escape from the beam everything is pointless and they're screwed. Full stop.

I.E. If they could actually feasibly outrun the beam the beam itself is now pointless.

There's no sense in them retreating. Either the thing works and running away isn't possible or it doesn't and they have to do a last stand anyway.

They don't even know what the beam does for certain.

God just thinking about this reminds me of how derptastic ME3's ending was.

By this logic why fight the Reapers at all.  Given organics have been losing for billions of years resistence is futile.  The obvious answer is because it doesn't might.  You fight because that is better than just staying there and dying.  You run away from the blast because that is better than just staying there and dying.  

The natural instinct when a mega weapon is about to fire is to get out of the way.  You don't just stand there and risk that getting hit by it will be ok.  That defies logic.

Whether the Reapers can escape or not is irrelevant.  I don't decide whether to get out of the way of a weapon aimed in my direction based on whether my enemy can escape or not.  I make a decision based on my desire to live and what my enemy does is its own business.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Low-EMS control just shows how dumb the whole plan of trying to run away from the crucible was. The Normandy gets stranded on a remote planet as a result of Hackett's idiocy.

[remydat]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

How do they know it's going to do anything? Oh, that's right, they don't! The only hope they had was the Catalyst was going to make it only effect Reapers and not blow up the system they use it in, which is handy, because Earth is right THERE!

Let's face it, the entire Crucible plot line is ****ing stupid.

Umm no one but Shep knows about the Catalyst.  Everyone including Hackett thinks this thing will cause massive damage period.

They don't know what it will do one way or another.  However, common sense dictates that if you build a weapon to kill then you get out of the way when it is about to fire.  They don't know this thing has space magic that will just target the Reapers.

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The beam effects the entire Galaxy. It'll be like more like standing next to an active volcano that isn't the slow lava types. You can try to run, but you're not going to make it. You are screwed because you thought standing next to an active volcano was a good idea!

They don't know it will effect the entire galalxy.  You are using hindsight.  The best thing to do is try and get out of the way even if it may be pointless.

Anyone standing next to this volcano is still going to run because they are still going to try and LIVE no matter how futile it looks.  What are you going to do if you were by the volcano?  Take out a chair and read a book while waiting for your impending death?

Modifié par remydat, 18 mai 2013 - 05:13 .

[Ryzaki]

remydat wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

It makes running away stupid. What if the stupid light did nothing? Then they just abandoned Earth for no reason.

Uh...yeah. There's no guarantee that sucker'll even kill the Reapers to begin with remember? Everyone packing their bags just because the thing was activated was silly. And yes actually running away is silly because it's a waste of energy if the Reapers can escape from the beam everything is pointless and they're screwed. Full stop.

I.E. If they could actually feasibly outrun the beam the beam itself is now pointless.

There's no sense in them retreating. Either the thing works and running away isn't possible or it doesn't and they have to do a last stand anyway.

They don't even know what the beam does for certain.

God just thinking about this reminds me of how derptastic ME3's ending was.

By this logic why fight the Reapers at all.  Given organics have been losing for billions of years resistence is futile.  The obvious answer is because it doesn't might.  You fight because that is better than just staying there and dying.  You run away from the blast because that is better than just staying there and dying.  

The natural instinct when a mega weapon is about to fire is to get out of the way.  You don't just stand there and risk that getting hit by it will be ok.  That defies logic.

Whether the Reapers can escape or not is irrelevant.  I don't decide whether to get out of the way of a weapon aimed in my direction based on whether my enemy can escape or not.  I make a decision based on my desire to live and what my enemy does is its own business.

*facepalms*

I'm not even gonna bother responding because. Just...wat.

[Ryzaki]

Mr.House wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

simfamSP wrote...
Tell me you'd stand still at an oncoming tidal wave and then talk about logic.

No one knew how that beam was going to work, and if they did, they sure as hell weren't going to stick around to see what was going on.

The beam effects the entire Galaxy. It'll be like more like standing next to an active volcano that isn't the slow lava types. You can try to run, but you're not going to make it. You are screwed because you thought standing next to an active volcano was a good idea!

Best post of the day!

Agreed.

[MegaSovereign]

remydat wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

How do they know it's going to do anything? Oh, that's right, they don't! The only hope they had was the Catalyst was going to make it only effect Reapers and not blow up the system they use it in, which is handy, because Earth is right THERE!

Let's face it, the entire Crucible plot line is ****ing stupid.

Umm no one but Shep knows about the Catalyst.  Everyone including Hackett thinks this thing will cause massive damage period.

They don't know what it will do one way or another.  However, common sense dictates that if you build a weapon to kill then you get out of the way when it is about to fire.  They don't know this thing has space magic that will just target the Reapers.

You're right, but I'm pretty sure that they are at least aware of the fact that the Crucible utilizes the Mass Relay network (the in-universe Codex says as much). If anything, common sense would dictate that they should be as far away from the relays as possible. Using them just before the Crucible fires poses more risks than just standing there.

[remydat]

Ryzaki wrote...

*facepalms*

I'm not even gonna bother responding because. Just...wat.

You are claiming that because something is futile you should just sit there and do nothing.  That is illogical. 

[Ryzaki]

remydat wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

*facepalms*

I'm not even gonna bother responding because. Just...wat.

You are claiming that because something is futile you should just sit there and do nothing.  That is illogical. 

If you can't really tell the differences between the two secnarios there's no use in me wasting my time.

There's just not.

[remydat]

Ryzaki wrote...

If you can't really tell the differences between the two secnarios there's no use in me wasting my time.

There's just not.

I am comparing the supposed futility of the act.

[remydat]

MegaSovereign wrote...

You're right, but I'm pretty sure that they are at least aware of the fact that the Crucible utilizes the Mass Relay network (the in-universe Codex says as much). If anything, common sense would dictate that they should be as far away from the relays as possible. Using them just before the Crucible fires poses more risks than just standing there.

They have no idea how fast this blast is or how quickly it will take place.  Do you think when they see it about to fire they are going to sit there and ponder things or just try and get the hell as far away as possible.  Furthermore, you are assuming that because the people walking on the Crucible may know the Relays are involved that every soldier or pilot on every ship does as well.

[Ticonderoga117]

remydat wrote...
Umm no one but Shep knows about the Catalyst.  Everyone including Hackett thinks this thing will cause massive damage period.

They don't know what it will do one way or another.  However, common sense dictates that if you build a weapon to kill then you get out of the way when it is about to fire.  They don't know this thing has space magic that will just target the Reapers.

No one knows that the Catalyst is the Reaper King. However, they do know it exists and acts as the thing that will take the massive amount of energy the Crucible generates and kill or control Reapers with. That was thier entire hope: The Catalyst kills Reapers, not everyone.

This weapon effects the entire Galaxy. You can't outrun it.

remydat wrote...
They don't know it will effect the entire galalxy.  You using hindsight.  At that the the best thing to do is try and get out of the way even if it may be pointless.

Anyone standing next to this volcano is still going to run because they are still going to try and LIVE no matter how futile it looks.  Kind of like how we still fight the Reapers who have a perfect record over billions of years against organics.  What are you going to do if you were by the volcano?  Take out a chair and read a book while waiting for your impending death?

They have too, otherwise what's the point of this thing? We only built one. You build a giant superweapon that has only one shot and it won't kill all of your enemies like you hope it will?

It's stupid.

[Ryzaki]

remydat wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

If you can't really tell the differences between the two secnarios there's no use in me wasting my time.

There's just not.

I am comparing the supposed futility of the act.

The Reapers can be destroyed. This is seen time and time again. The Crucible itself pokes holes in the whole "reapers always win" crap.

Where pray tell is there something that suggests the organics FTL would be faster than the speed the beam light travels in? NVM that to even do its job properly the beam would have to be faster than FTL otherwise the Reapers could successfully retreat making the whole thing pointless? (Since you know the Reapers FTL drivers are actually FASTER than the organics?)

Modifié par Ryzaki, 18 mai 2013 - 05:20 .

[Ticonderoga117]

remydat wrote...
They have no idea how fast this blast is or how quickly it will take place.  Do you think when they see it about to fire they are going to sit there and ponder things or just try and get the hell as far away as possible.  Furthermore, you are assuming that because the people walking on the Crucible may know the Relays are involved that every soldier or pilot on every ship does as well.

Bull. It has to be quick and faster than light otherwise the Reapers could avoid it.  They HAVE to assume this because they don't know the Catalyst is a moron who is more than willing to let Shepard kill him and all the Reapers.

Since the Reapers are faster than anything we have, we are screwed.

[MegaSovereign]

remydat wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

You're right, but I'm pretty sure that they are at least aware of the fact that the Crucible utilizes the Mass Relay network (the in-universe Codex says as much). If anything, common sense would dictate that they should be as far away from the relays as possible. Using them just before the Crucible fires poses more risks than just standing there.

They have no idea how fast this blast is or how quickly it will take place.  Do you think when they see it about to fire they are going to sit there and ponder things or just try and get the hell as far away as possible.  Furthermore, you are assuming that because the people walking on the Crucible may know the Relays are involved that every soldier or pilot on every ship does as well.

I suspect that Hackett knows, and that he sets the rendezvous point. If they're trying to get as far away as possible, then the most effective way would be to go into the farthest system that doesn't have a relay in it.

[remydat]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

No one knows that the Catalyst is the Reaper King. However, they do know it exists and acts as the thing that will take the massive amount of energy the Crucible generates and kill or control Reapers with. That was thier entire hope: The Catalyst kills Reapers, not everyone.

This weapon effects the entire Galaxy. You can't outrun it.

They have too, otherwise what's the point of this thing? We only built one. You build a giant superweapon that has only one shot and it won't kill all of your enemies like you hope it will?

It's stupid.

They don't know it will kill or control the Reapers.  It has never been used.  This is all theory until it is fired and they actually see how it works.

Likewise, they don't know it will kill all of their enemies in one shot nor am I sure they even know it is in fact one shot.  Again, they had blue prints.  That is all.  They had no time to test their theories about it.  

They simply built the thing because they had no other good options not because they KNOW anything about how it works or who it will affect.  They don't actually KNOW a damn thing.  So yes when all of this is just a theory, basic instinct suggests get out of the way.

[Ryzaki]

So basically you're arguing that an army of trained military beings along with scientists who worked on the damn thing instead of using reason and logic...

Decide to go with the emotional "Get the hell out of here!" reaction? When said get out of here does nothing but disorganize them and separate them from their allies? (since if that beam's hitting them it's gonna hit em. They can't run from it without the beam being pointless).

Really?

[Ticonderoga117]

remydat wrote...
They don't know it will kill or control the Reapers.  It has never been used.  This is all theory until it is fired and they actually see how it works.

Likewise, they don't know it will kill all of their enemies in one shot nor am I sure they even know it is in fact one shot.  Again, they had blue prints.  That is all.  They had no time to test their theories about it.  

They simply built the thing because they had no other good options not because they KNOW anything about how it works or who it will affect.  They don't actually KNOW a damn thing.  So yes when all of this is just a theory, basic instinct suggests get out of the way.

Basic instinct says to not do any of bolded, yet here we are.  So, since they are acting on ASSUMPTIONS, why run? We already know it HAS to be faster than Reapers, so running is pointless anyway.

[remydat]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Reapers can be destroyed. This is seen time and time again. The Crucible itself pokes holes in the whole "reapers always win" crap.

Where pray tell is there something that suggests the organics FTL would be faster than the speed the beam light travels in? NVM that to even do its job properly the beam would have to be faster than FTL otherwise the Reapers could successfully retreat making the whole thing pointless? (Since you know the Reapers FTL drivers are actually FASTER than the organics?)

They have never been defeated in billions of years.  Never.

There is nothing to suggest which is faster one way or another.  Nor is there anything to suggest the Reapers would high tail it and run.  Given their general arrogance they may actually not high tail it and run at all. 

In any event all of this is pure assumption which again, the natural instinct for an organic is to get out of the way period.

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

Bull. It has to be quick and faster than light otherwise the Reapers could avoid it.  They HAVE to assume this because they don't know the Catalyst is a moron who is more than willing to let Shepard kill him and all the Reapers.

Since the Reapers are faster than anything we have, we are screwed.

Again, all unproven speculation.  The Reapers may run or they may not.  I don't care.  I don't decide to run or not because on whether my enemy will or not.

[Wulfram]

Getting the hell out of there is an entirely logical thing to do when you've just set off what might well be a giant bomb, you don't know what's about to happen and all you're achieving by staying is to get slaughtered by the Reapers.