79 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

What makes Mordin's words suspect at the end of ME2?

Also, the reason I use the word Prothean is because the Awakened Collector backstory involves the memory of the race they used to be. Considering how much they were changed, and how much that was removed, it's more of a multiplayer gimmick than something that fits the lore of the game. It's not surprising, given the story's inconsistencies.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 13 août 2013 - 06:51 .

[Dean_the_Young]

StreetMagic wrote...

Wolfva2 wrote...

What difference does it make? Not a whole lot if you're a numbers cruncher who's only concern is the cold hard statistics of what your EMS could be.

On the other hand, it COULD mean alot if you're an actual role player instead of a statiscian. If you actually try to emmerse yourself inside the game instead of being content to sit outside of the fourth wall making all your decisions based on meta-game knowledge. Of course, the decision your Shep makes is then only important to YOU, and to him.

Roleplaying wise, it means Shepard is responsible for every decision TIM eventually employs, and every reaperized troop he has in his army. He's even responsible for what happens to Omega, I guess, and adjutants (I think Cerberus salvaged them from beyond the Omega 4 Relay).

Really?

I mean, here I thought TIM in ME3 was a supid and bad (but mostly stupid) person who makes poor choices for worse reasons, and that the moral of the story was that he and those unseen Cerberus scientists brainwashing and equipping everyone for a poorly defined or reasoned goal were simply supposed to be contemptable characters for the nature of their character.

But apparently all that responsiblity is lifted off their shoulders and put onto Shepherd's in half the universes, because-

Because-

Because people stop being responsible for their own actions and choices if someone else's choice further up the line was a necessity for it?

Seems stupid with no logical end-state, but hey: original sin.

[Clayless]

KaiserShep wrote...

What makes Mordin's words suspect at the end of ME2?

Collector General's implication of being aware and alive once the connection was broken.

Also, the reason I use the word Prothean is because the Awakened Collector backstory involves the memory of the race they used to be. Considering how much they were changed, and how much that was removed, it's more of a multiplayer gimmick than something that fits the lore of the game. It's not surprising, given the story's inconsistencies.

It says they fight for the memory of their people, which isn't the same as saying they remember being Protheans. Unlike what people try to dismiss as fanon discontinuity, they are canon.

[Iakus]

Mass Effect's continuity is so messed up it changes whenever someone says "Wouldn't it be awesome if..." during a brainstorming session.

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...

Mass Effect's continuity is so messed up it changes whenever someone says "Wouldn't it be awesome if..." during a brainstorming session.

There you have it.  If it looks cool or sounds cool, use it.  It doesn't matter if it makes sense or fits the story or anything else.  What matters is coolness.

The collector base should have meant big things in ME3.  Destroy it and Cerberus shouldn't have become so powerful.  Keep it and you've handed Cerberus the galaxy.  I'm realistic enough to know that this would have made for a very difficult bifurcated story, but BW created that and the build up, I didn't.  If you don't intend for things to matter then don't tell people they will. 

If you made a mistake then well certainly there was a better way to handle it than to have them get the human reaper anyway.  Even some simple story about how they had analysts working on the data but had yet to fully understand it all (but when have they ever used that line).

At the end of ME2, you had Cerberus that could be sort of on the ropes.  They'd spent a lot of money on resurrecting Shepard, making the Normandy, and all that likely in order to get the collector data.  But they get it no matter what.  Great.

[Nashtalia]

Jafroboy wrote...

Whereas saving the council has clear, if minor differences - same council, get your specter status back, news reports, nicer to you in ME3, ect. I didnt see any differences based on wether you kept or destroyed the collector base in ME3. I kinda sssumed it was hidden differences, like more powerful cerberus troops or something?

Oh no wait! You see that reaper brain in the cerb base, and then add it to the crucible, is that it? A few more war assets?

given i was informed, mind you i saved The Collector base. that the only thing i was told that the Cereberus Troops would get an edge [but the difference was not notice-able]....[even at Normal difficulty]

i would like to add that after the events of ME2 [specifically my time line saving The Collector base]. and what i find out on Santuary [Horizon], that Cereberus are doing what the Reapers and The Collectors are doing, that being Harvesting. interesting note taken..upon realization of this.

and also....

when i got to Cronos Station [Cereberus's base of operations] when Anderson says to The Illusive Man, "listen to yourself...your Indocrinated!" and The Illusive Man just looses it beyond and goes with the "i am not Indocrinated" song and dance sha-goo [i was amuzed at the Illusive Man's initial reaction to Anderson's saying]

Modifié par Nashtalia, 13 août 2013 - 06:08 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Not really: just mocking a poorly made point.

[BSpud]

The rationalization here of the "Awakened Collectors" is hilarious.

[The Night Mammoth]

Robosexual wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

What makes Mordin's words suspect at the end of ME2?

Collector General's implication of being aware and alive once the connection was broken.

What implies the Collector General is alive and aware? 

Because it looks around a little and possibly reacts in a very minimal way to a wave of light and heat?

Why would that mean it's not just the husk Mordin believes it is? Looking around and reacting to basic things such as light and heat aren't exactly signs of sentience or individuality or high intelligence.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 13 août 2013 - 11:37 .

[SilJeff]

yep, only makes an actual difference if you get a low EMS ending

[Omega Torsk]

Yeah, it changes what you get if you get the worst possible ending, but honestly, if you go through ME3 doing the bare minimum, you're playing it wrong.

Even before ME3 shipped, Bioware negated the Collector base choice with the Omega comic. Cerberus has a base on the other side of the Omega-3 relay where they conduct experiments using reaper tech. Shepard destroying the base made no difference... it seems as if someone at Bioware was hellbent on turning Cerberus into Reaper pawns in ME3... similar to the "Councilor Anderson" choice.

[In Exile]

iakus wrote...

Mass Effect's continuity is so messed up it changes whenever someone says "Wouldn't it be awesome if..." during a brainstorming session.

It would be awesome if the guys that turn everyone into slurpee are misunderstood heroes! People find industrialized genocide relatable, right?

[David7204]

First of all, that's not a retcon.

Secondly, I would suggest you get used to at the very least some of your choices not counting for a whole lot. Because that's reality. And I hope you're not under the very silly impression that Mass Effect is somehow unique in that regard.

The merit of a choice is not solely with the consequences. Much of it lies simply with the choice itself.

Modifié par David7204, 14 août 2013 - 12:40 .

[Xilizhra]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't know what's worse. Making player choices amount to nothing, or making even their own choices from previous games amount to nothing (like the retconning of Ardat Yakshi, for a small example). I don't think they have a loremaster or "lore bible" like some teams have. It really does seem like a lot of brainstorming.

What AY retcon?

[David7204]

I don't like the way a lot of choices were handled. That doesn't mean I'm foolish enough to pretend other RPGs are somehow fountains of big, epic, consequences to choices. And sure as hell not sequels or trilogys, considering Mass Effect is the only RPG in existence to attempt imports on the scale it has.

Modifié par David7204, 14 août 2013 - 12:51 .

[David7204]

The codex entry in Mass Effect 2 (present long before ME 3 was released) makes it fairly clear Samara is either mistaken or lying.

[Xilizhra]

StreetMagic wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't know what's worse. Making player choices amount to nothing, or making even their own choices from previous games amount to nothing (like the retconning of Ardat Yakshi, for a small example). I don't think they have a loremaster or "lore bible" like some teams have. It really does seem like a lot of brainstorming.

What AY retcon?

Samara's numbers (her 3 daughters) were pretty off.

I could believe they'd be a little off, but not to the extent it turned out. Or am I mistaken about something? Are the banshees not former Ardat Yakshi?

Samara was directly contradicted in ME2 by both the codex and a line on the Citadel, when a turian food merchant claims that a certain condiment was made at an Ardat-Yakshi monastery by sad, tortured blue souls. I think Samara's dialogue was from an earlier draft that they forgot to change. Either way, no retcon.

[ShepnTali]

"*As far as I know*, only three exist." -- Samara

[Omega Torsk]

Edit: Nvm. As I read more recent posts, I'm starting to understand that the Ardat Yakshi arc was less of a retcon and more of a mistake in Samara's dialogue...

Modifié par Omega Torsk, 14 août 2013 - 12:59 .