323 réponses à ce sujet

[slimgrin]

Wulfram wrote...

I think Mass Effect 3 was probably Bioware's most mature game. I mean, firmly putting aside the endings because I don't want to totally hijack the thread, it's dealing with some pretty heavy themes of death on a massive scale and sacrifice and all that.

Except I don't think they deal with those issues very well, and nothing is worse than forcing a writer to shoe-horn stuff in that is against his inclination. I think Bioware is best when skimming the surface of mature topics, like they did in DA:O and ME1. I used to argue to no end that they should go further...then I played DA2, and I realized they shouldn't go further. They should stay where they are comfortable.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 mai 2013 - 10:08 .

[Steppenwolf]

When I think of a more mature Dragon Age title I think of one with a more complex story than what we got in Origins, Awakening or DA][. I want actual political intrigue, backstabbing(of the figurative sort), complex situations with no right answers, no more "Templars are bad, but look how crazy these mages are!" situations, etc. I also want actual themes that touch on human morality, comment on our predilections and predispositions, and for the love of The Maker, don't reduce romances to picking the heart icon. It turns characters into simplistic goals. "Put the square peg in the square hole and you get to put something else somewhere else ;)" I hate that.

[Noctis Augustus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That's all well and good, except nudity, sex and gore are a part of being human. that's why other artists, authors, game developers include these elements. They exist.

They do indeed exist. There's a lot of artists, authors, and game developers that also do not include any or some of those elements. I wouldn't call those works of art to be any more or less mature simply based on the inclusion of those things.

Depends on the context. Censorship is not mature.

[Dave of Canada]

BioWare just doesn't have to censor itself, nudity shouldn't be hidden by underwear and gore should be presented when realistic to the situation. Mature themes shouldn't be thrown in for no reason but when presented, they shouldn't be hidden either.

[cJohnOne]

Not having underwear would be distracting to me if you know what I mean. It's not a sex simulator, is it? Much as I enjoy a good sex simulation.

[ArcaneJTM]

ibbikiookami wrote...

Actually it does, in this age anyway. People hide reality from children, therefore reality is mature. Stupid I know.

There are countless movies I could list that good parents would never show their childeren and yet these movies are the epitome of immaturity.

Maturity is more in the presentation and context than it is in the content.

Modifié par ArcaneJTM, 17 mai 2013 - 10:25 .

[Steppenwolf]

cJohnOne wrote...

Not having underwear would be distracting to me if you know what I mean. It's not a sex simulator, is it? Much as I enjoy a good sex simulation.

If sex and sexuality are too much for you to handle in a game then you should avoid that content. And at the same time, Like Dave said, they shouldn't even put that content in the game if they're going to censor themselves. It takes what should be a mature moment and reduces it to immaturity, having sex with underwear over your genitalia.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I agree. I would suggest that a game like Deus Ex: HR is a very mature game aimed at adults and I wouldn't mind if BioWare went more in that direction with future games.

Agreed. DEHR attempts to explore transhumanism and what its effects would have on humanity, and does a reasonably good job at that (even if Jensen's "I didn't ask for this" get a bit overplayed IMO).

Some interesting ideas such as corporations having control over people (if "patched" to allow it) and stuff like that.

That stuff is mature.


In reality, you can make almost anything "mature." To echo John, a lot of "adult" stuff seems to have been put forth, with some level of "uncomfortable" stuff. The presence of those topics does not create a mature game. It gets rated M for mature because ideally, mature people are able to disassociate fiction from reality, and recognize "the presence of these things means little in this context."

Many games are rated Mature for that reason, not because the content portrayed within said game is in any way mature.

Do you think it's possible take a subject like the darkspawn (evil monsters who want to kill everything) and turn that into something that is mature? I think the mage/templar storyline in DA2 had potential to be mature. The idea of giving up certain freedoms and having big brother always watching are things that all of us can relate to and are usually eager to give an opinion on.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 17 mai 2013 - 10:26 .

[SafetyShattered]

Oh come on, seriously? Another one of these? More boobies and ass shots doesn't make something mature. Everytime i read one of these threads i imagine the author is a 13 year old boy. I'm all for a game exploring darker themes(like the recent metro last light for example) but nudity just for the sake of "LOOK WE GOT DA BOOBIEZ!!!!!!" is so unnecessary.

[slimgrin]

cJohnOne wrote...

Not having underwear would be distracting to me if you know what I mean. It's not a sex simulator, is it? Much as I enjoy a good sex simulation.

There is plenty of PG-rated content out there for you. In fact, most movies, games and books target your delicate sensibilities, which means there is a vast library for you to choose from.

Modifié par slimgrin, 17 mai 2013 - 10:38 .

[AtreiyaN7]

slimgrin wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

*headdesk* Maturity doesn't correlate to the number of penis shots or boob shots that you get in a movie 

That's all well and good. Except nudity, sex and gore are a part of being human. That's why other artists, authors, game developers include these elements. They exist in real life. As for Bioware, I say they stay the course. They've always been know for a family friendly approach, and it seems to be where their writing is best.

I cited A Clockwork Orange as an example of a film with sex, violence, and nudity combined with intelligent writing, and I put it fairly high up on my list of movies that I respect and find interesting. I'm completely fine with sex, violence, and nudity in any game so long as it makes sense and isn't just there to pander to the people like the OP who seem to think you should go completely nuts with gore, sex, nudity, and violence solely because an M rating has been slapped on the box.

With a war going on in DA3, I think it would be apropros to show violent fighting, injuries, gore, and bleeding if the devs want to head in a grittier direction a la Saving Private Ryan or other war films. It's just that I don't think it should be thrown in gratuitously for no good reason. There are games like Saw: The Video Game with plenty of gore and violence that merit an M rating - but all that "mature" content doesn't make Saw (the game) a particularly good game. It still sucks (just look up reviews for it).

Anyhow, you'll have to forgive me, but when someone like the OP suggests that pissing on corpses be included in a game as an example of one of the "mature" things he wants to see in a game, then I question his overall sensibilities and judgment about what should/shouldn't be included in an M-rated game.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to add - it gets pretty old to have you seemingly imply that I don't grasp the concepts of sex, nudity, and/or violence being part of real life when I have, time and again, cited that I have zero problem with any of those things in games or movies or books or films. I swear to God, sometimes I almost feel like I have to whip out one of my old life-drawing books from my art days with naked people in them just to prove that I don't have some sort of issue with depictions of nudity, etc. *rolleyes*

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 17 mai 2013 - 10:50 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

That's all well and good, except nudity, sex and gore are a part of being human. that's why other artists, authors, game developers include these elements. They exist.

They do indeed exist. There's a lot of artists, authors, and game developers that also do not include any or some of those elements. I wouldn't call those works of art to be any more or less mature simply based on the inclusion of those things.

This needs to be read by everyone who has an opinion on this subject.

[Sylvianus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

BioWare just doesn't have to censor itself, nudity shouldn't be hidden by underwear and gore should be presented when realistic to the situation. Mature themes shouldn't be thrown in for no reason but when presented, they shouldn't be hidden either.

That's exactly what I think.

Wulfram wrote...
I think Mass Effect 3 was probably Bioware's most mature game.

I felt the same, despite some big issues into the story :/

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 mai 2013 - 10:42 .

[EpicBoot2daFace]

EntropicAngel wrote...

EpicBoot2daFace wrote...

Do you think it's possible take a subject like the darkspawn (evil monsters who want to kill everything) and turn that into something that is mature? 

You played Awakening, didn't you? A lot of people are saying here that Awakening's plot was pretty mature.

Yes, I did and I really enjoyed it. However, I don't consider it canon since the storyline was dropped with DA2. I don't think there was enough story and character development to really call it mature. I think it had potential though.

EDIT: I think ME3 definately had some very mature elements. Most mature game? I don't know since it's kind of inconsistent.

Modifié par EpicBoot2daFace, 17 mai 2013 - 10:39 .

[Noctis Augustus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

Actually it does, in this age anyway. People hide reality from children, therefore reality is mature. Stupid I know.

I don't agree. Whether or not it is shown to children has nothing to do with its level of maturity. I would argue that how mature it is depends on how thought-provoking it is, or it intends to be.

Sex cards? Not thought-provoking in the slightest. Jaques da Aldersberg and his eerily familiar dialog? Absolutely.

Individual rights in the form of mages being free, versus their potential danger to mundane society? Absolutely thought-provoking. Mage with the Champion of Kirkwall by his side, who's never lost a battle, goes insane and becomes the Harvester? Not thought-provoking in the slightest.

I prefer a more solid definition of maturity than simply "what parents don't show their kids." Because if that's so, there is more sex and violence viewable for kids than there has ever been, thus those things are immature.

I consider mature a restriction. Mature means full-grown. You're talking about the mind. Mental maturity. That's not age restricted.

[Allan Schumacher]

ibbikiookami wrote...

Depends on the context. Censorship is not mature.

Deciding to not do something (for whatever reason) is not censorship.

Do you think it's possible take a subject like the darkspawn (evil
monsters who want to kill everything) and turn that into something that
is mature? I think the mage/templar storyline in DA2 had potential to be
mature. The idea of giving up certain freedoms and having big brother
always watching are things that all of us can relate to and are usually
eager to give an opinion on.

I think in order to do so, you'd have to explore more how the darkspawn came to be (which I feel has only been touched on lightly).  Unless we see more "Awakened" type, at this point the Darkspawn themselves are mostly just, as you say, evil monsters who want to kill everything.

Once their creation is explored, then more can be done I think.  From there, I'll defer to people that are more creative than myself!

[Noctis Augustus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

BioWare just doesn't have to censor itself, nudity shouldn't be hidden by underwear and gore should be presented when realistic to the situation. Mature themes shouldn't be thrown in for no reason but when presented, they shouldn't be hidden either.

Exactly.

[mopotter]

-TC1989- wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

-TC1989- wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

Why doesn't Bioware make the sex scenes optional? You want nudity? Then you can have it. You don't want it? Then you'll have a kiss and fade to black screen.

Maybe as dlc.

That would be ideal. But I bet Bioware doesn't see any real payoff for putting resources into something like that.

Then turn it into a paid dlc. I bet a lot of people wouldn't mind paying $1-2 for it.

I think other DLC is great, and imma let you finish, but that would be the highest selling DLC of all time. OF ALL TIME!

In all seriousness, if someone thinks a romance DLC wouldn't sell, look at the success of Witch Hunt, with most of the happy people being Morrimancers who got their ending (and many who were other-mancers being kind of annoyed that they got a book and no answers).

I'm going to assume that was somewhat directed at me. I didn't mean to imply that romances weren't worth investing into. My point was specifically at marketing nudity, and more adult themes into the romances. Personally, I have no problem with nudity from either sex. I don't really understand the problem with having it in the first place, but people raise hell about it, which is ridiculous. I think having the option between nudity, and fade to black would solve some problems, but I just don't see Bioware taking the time to go after that.

Not sure, but I think she was serious.  I know if there had been a DLC with extra conversations for DAO and DA2 love interest, I'd have picked it up.  As for as nudity, I'll take Me1 style sex and nudity over anything else I've seen, but I like the romance, the music, the lighting, the whole package, not just a nude sex scene.  

[Noctis Augustus]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

Depends on the context. Censorship is not mature.

Deciding to not do something (for whatever reason) is not censorship.

Fair enough. Surpressing and hiding something is not mature.

Modifié par ibbikiookami, 17 mai 2013 - 10:46 .

[Noctis Augustus]

EntropicAngel wrote...

ibbikiookami wrote...

I consider mature a restriction. Mature means full-grown. You're talking about the mind. Mental maturity. That's not age restricted.

Physical maturity happens around 14 years old, though. Is that what you're talking about?

And mental maturity is not age restricted, no...but the human brain finishes developing around the time the teens are ending. Not quite 18, but around twenty.

It's between 19-23 actually.

That's physical maturity (brain). Mental/psychological maturity can be achieved much sooner.

[Darth Death]

Each generation is getting worse. Seems like people want porn in the form of storytelling to fill their lustful appetites.