219 réponses à ce sujet

[UnknownMercenary]

As far as utility guns go I find it too heavy, the only advantage being that it can have a lot of spare ammo.

It could have used a weight reduction to make it available to more classes. Maybe not as much as the Falcon got. Right now it sits at the Falcon's old weight range, but something like 1.75 - 1.25 would make it more palatable.

A weight reduction along with a radius buff would make it a more attractive option. Not that it's unusable in its current state, but I don't see myself choosing it for practical reasons.

[megabeast37215]

UnknownMercenary wrote...

As far as utility guns go I find it too heavy, the only advantage being that it can have a lot of spare ammo.

It could have used a weight reduction to make it available to more classes. Maybe not as much as the Falcon got. Right now it sits at the Falcon's old weight range, but something like 1.75 - 1.25 would make it more palatable.

A weight reduction along with a radius buff would make it a more attractive option. Not that it's unusable in its current state, but I don't see myself choosing it for practical reasons.

With ULM it puts me at... 150ish cooldown... that's like.. totally fine IMO. I don't feel it needs the spare ammo mod.

[Simba501]

k1ngl1ves wrote...

Reported.

[january42]

Max Dmian wrote...

lastofthefive0s wrote...

Max Dmian wrote...

This is how you use the Venom - or this.
Or a whole team of Venom wielders obliterating Cerberus.

Freaking glorious!  Poor Cerberus didn't stand a chance.  Might have to give the Venom another chance...couldn't get a handle on it the last time I used it but now I see how it should be done.  Thanks for the lulz.

You're welcome 

Oh and january with his "basically a worse Crusader" again.
Besides damage this gun is absolutely NOTHING like a Crusader. Comparing them says more about the poster than the gun.

Anything you can do with it, you can do better with a different gun. Basicly, it's almost completly worthless unless you charge it. (No AOE,no stagger, no point).  

Acolyte: same ROF essentially due to charge up,  about the same AOE(not sure about that, venom might be smaller, hard to tell). WAAAAAY ligher and does far more damage vs shields

Sorpion: Same ish AOE, will do far more damage and is waaay lighter.  It's bugged, so no area priming, but that is the only the venom is superior. 

Falcon: larger area,  same stagger and are priming.  Pretty much the same DPS also.  Also, ligher.  And easier to max out due to being a gold weapon.

Adas: About the same area,  better DPS(much better vs shields/barriers).  Stagger and priming are better due to higher ROF. Also, it's ligher and easier to aim. And is a gold weapon.

Krysae:  about the same area.  Similar DPS(better vs armor and it ignores DR). easier to aim.  easier to max out. Also, lighter. 

You can use the venom, but there is really nothing it does it does that any other weapon doesn't do better.  It it had the same radius uncharged, that would help alot. But the fact that the uncharged fire is basicly worthless hurts it alot, even for a utility gun.

Modifié par january42, 18 mai 2013 - 04:11 .

[Turian Master Race]

Well, it is a shotgun ... and I do not have it.

[megabeast37215]

january42 wrote...

Anything you can do with it, you can do better with a different gun. Basicly, it's almost completly worthless unless you charge it. (No AOE,no stagger, no point).  

Acolyte: same ROF essentially due to charge up,  about the same AOE(not sure about that, venom might be smaller, hard to tell). WAAAAAY ligher and does far more damage vs shields

Sorpion: Same ish AOE, will do far more damage and is waaay lighter.  It's bugged, so no area priming, but that is the only the venom is superior. 

Falcon: larger area,  same stagger and are priming.  Pretty much the same DPS also.  Also, ligher.  And easier to max out due to being a gold weapon.

Adas: About the same area,  better DPS(much better vs shields/barriers).  Stagger and priming are better due to higher ROF. Also, it's ligher and easier to aim. And is a gold weapon.

Krysae:  about the same area.  Similar DPS(better vs armor and it ignores DR). easier to aim.  easier to max out. Also, lighter. 

You can use the venom, but there is really nothing it does it does that any other weapon doesn't do better.  It it had the same radius uncharged, that would help alot. But the fact that the uncharged fire is basicly worthless hurts it alot, even for a utility gun.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not even going to waste my time ripping apart your completely biased, misinformed arguments.

[january42]

megabeast37215 wrote...


You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not even going to waste my time ripping apart your completely biased, misinformed arguments.

I gave reasons.  If you can tell me where I'm wrong, I'd be happy to know actually.

[megabeast37215]

january42 wrote...

megabeast37215 wrote...


You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I'm not even going to waste my time ripping apart your completely biased, misinformed arguments.

I gave reasons.  If you can tell me where I'm wrong, I'd be happy to know actually.

If you actually WANT to learn something... and I'm not talking to a brick wall... I will oblige you.

Believe it or not... TheKillerAngel posted almost th exact same thing as you did on page 4-5 and I responded to it there...

[Original Twigman]

january42 wrote...

Max Dmian wrote...

lastofthefive0s wrote...

Max Dmian wrote...

This is how you use the Venom - or this.
Or a whole team of Venom wielders obliterating Cerberus.

Freaking glorious!  Poor Cerberus didn't stand a chance.  Might have to give the Venom another chance...couldn't get a handle on it the last time I used it but now I see how it should be done.  Thanks for the lulz.

You're welcome 

Oh and january with his "basically a worse Crusader" again.
Besides damage this gun is absolutely NOTHING like a Crusader. Comparing them says more about the poster than the gun.

Anything you can do with it, you can do better with a different gun. Basicly, it's almost completly worthless unless you charge it. (No AOE,no stagger, no point).  

Acolyte: same ROF essentially due to charge up,  about the same AOE(not sure about that, venom might be smaller, hard to tell). WAAAAAY ligher and does far more damage vs shields

Sorpion: Same ish AOE, will do far more damage and is waaay lighter.  It's bugged, so no area priming, but that is the only the venom is superior. 

Falcon: larger area,  same stagger and are priming.  Pretty much the same DPS also.  Also, ligher.  And easier to max out due to being a gold weapon.

Adas: About the same area,  better DPS(much better vs shields/barriers).  Stagger and priming are better due to higher ROF. Also, it's ligher and easier to aim. And is a gold weapon.

Krysae:  about the same area.  Similar DPS(better vs armor and it ignores DR). easier to aim.  easier to max out. Also, lighter. 

You can use the venom, but there is really nothing it does it does that any other weapon doesn't do better.  It it had the same radius uncharged, that would help alot. But the fact that the uncharged fire is basicly worthless hurts it alot, even for a utility gun.

I'll take it from here then mega....

Acolyte: Mega, and I earlier in the thread, have stated that nothing really beats the acolyte on utility...

Scorpion: The "fact that it does more dmg" is an outright false statement. You are being mendacious, if you will. A venom with two charged shots, even at lower levels and without much in the way of consumables, will kill a phantom in two shots....not 4-5, which is what the scorpion needs.... two

Venom is also superior with the fact that there are no delayed shots. Delayed shots is never superior unless the DPS is retardedly bigger, or has a huge aoe radius or some other extreme, which the scorpion does not have.

The "lighter" argument is invalid, as you always can take other alternative weapons to fulfill other roles (just as the scorpion is fulfilling roles). Venom >Scorpion, no matter how you look at it.

Falcon: Being gold vs. being UR is not a good argument for being better. If this were the case, the phaeston would be better than the harrier. Phaeston is garbage.

In terms of damage. No. F*ck no. Falcon does no where near as much DPS and its RoF is a lot slower, period. There is no arguing this, its a fact in the game, not some opinion i have because i played one gun and liked it more than the other.

Again, with the "lighter" argument. If you are brining the falcon, you are bringing another even ligther gun to compensate, not a heavier one as it would wreck your cooldown. You would probably be bringing the same light gun with the venom for a very little difference in Cooldown. Argument doesn't work, again.

Krysae: maybe. No, No, maybe, and f*ck no.

The area may be the same. Doesn't really matter. the DPS is NOT the same, again. The venom will severly out dps the krysea as it can one shot enemies where the Krysea can't if you factor in the same set-up. The argument about  Armor DR as support that its better is horrible, because the Venom ignores armor reduction as well. Even the 1.5 multiplier isn't all that helpful because the RoF of the Krysea is stupid slow and near useless as a gun. The krysea is in a list of its own for being one of the worst guns.

You keep saying "its a gold" weapon, and that is a horrible argument as i have stated above. I am just going to refer to my previous refutations for that.

Adas: no

[megabeast37215]

january42 wrote...Acolyte: same ROF essentially due to charge up,  about the same AOE(not sure about that, venom might be smaller, hard to tell). WAAAAAY ligher and does far more damage vs shields

Sorpion: Same ish AOE, will do far more damage and is waaay lighter.  It's bugged, so no area priming, but that is the only the venom is superior. 

Falcon: larger area,  same stagger and are priming.  Pretty much the same DPS also.  Also, ligher.  And easier to max out due to being a gold weapon.

Adas: About the same area,  better DPS(much better vs shields/barriers).  Stagger and priming are better due to higher ROF. Also, it's ligher and easier to aim. And is a gold weapon.

Krysae:  about the same area.  Similar DPS(better vs armor and it ignores DR). easier to aim.  easier to max out. Also, lighter. 

You can use the venom, but there is really nothing it does it does that any other weapon doesn't do better.  It it had the same radius uncharged, that would help alot. But the fact that the uncharged fire is basicly worthless hurts it alot, even for a utility gun.

Acolyte: Yes... it is superior overall in the total scope of things. It is the ultimate utility weapon... this cannot be denied. Venom is only superior in it's ability to affect groups. How many triple kills have you ever gotten with an Acolyte? They are pretty common with the Venom.

Scorpion: Venom does MUCH more damage, applies ammo effects without a direct hit, and is much easier to hit the target with overall. Scorpion is lighter though... but that's it's only advantage IMO.

Falcon: Venom does MUCH more damage (can the Falcon 2-hit kill a Gold Phantom... no, it can't). Both can be bounced off walls/ceilings.

Adas: Is completely outclassed by the Venom in all catagories.. even in shield DPS. There is no contest here.

Krysae: Completely outclassed by the Venom, due to ROF, recoil, damage, ability to place shots (airburst detonation vs Swarmers for example).

If there is any one weapon I could compare the Venom to.... it's the GPS.

[Original Twigman]

megabeast37215 wrote...

If there is any one weapon I could compare the Venom to.... it's the GPS.

I compare it to the Falcon like i compare the wraith to the eviscerator

[UnknownMercenary]

megabeast37215 wrote...

UnknownMercenary wrote...

As far as utility guns go I find it too heavy, the only advantage being that it can have a lot of spare ammo.

It could have used a weight reduction to make it available to more classes. Maybe not as much as the Falcon got. Right now it sits at the Falcon's old weight range, but something like 1.75 - 1.25 would make it more palatable.

A weight reduction along with a radius buff would make it a more attractive option. Not that it's unusable in its current state, but I don't see myself choosing it for practical reasons.

With ULM it puts me at... 150ish cooldown... that's like.. totally fine IMO. I don't feel it needs the spare ammo mod.

I admit I like spamming with it when I do use it :innocent:

[LuckyBullet95]

Man I really need to read through this when I'm bored next...

OP - Venom is awesome if you know how to use it. Damage is average, but not terrbile, I'd recommend taking something like a Hurricane, Blood Pack Punisher, Hurricane or Lancer to deal with bosses. Though mind you the Venom isn't horrible at boss-killing, just not optimal. Venom is a great staggerer, primer and overall mook killer, it's similar to the Scorpion but trades weight for reliability. Scorpion, even if you know how to aim it can, now and again prove inconsistant due to sometimes unpredictable enemy movement and delayed explosions. As Stikman mentioned, weight isn't much of an issue, unless it's the Human Engineer who's cooldown is quite vital as far as bouncing his powers off of each other goes (due to short prime duration on Overload and Incinerate) But I don't even think that's an issue atX with ULM.

As for other utility weapons, no other guns comes close in terms of damage. The Acolyte will admittedly, outperform it. But then again the Acolyte is a common staple on any character for Platinum, it's like comparing the Harrier to the Spitfire, the Harrier is great, commonly used on higher difficulties, but it doesn't make the Spitfire bad...

I'd recommend watching Heroic's and Max's vids, the Venom is great, and MUCH more fun to use than the other shotguns (Wraith, Claymore) and utility weapons (Adas, Falcon).

[megabeast37215]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...
Venom is great, and MUCH more fun to use than the other shotguns (Wraith, Claymore) and utility weapons (Adas, Falcon).

Isn't that the truth. Aside from being quite useful... the weapon is a TON of fun to use... that's it's greatest strength IMO... fun factor. Launching enemies like a damn mortar strike... lolz!

[Boog_89]

Confirmed to be getting buffed in next weeks balance changes.

[january42]

I'll take it from here then mega....

Acolyte: Mega, and I earlier in the thread, have stated that nothing really beats the acolyte on utility...

Scorpion: The "fact that it does more dmg" is an outright false statement. You are being mendacious, if you will. A venom with two charged shots, even at lower levels and without much in the way of consumables, will kill a phantom in two shots....not 4-5, which is what the scorpion needs.... two

Is there some magic formula to make it do decent damage, because I have it at X and have never seen that to be true.  Maybe it's bugged more than I thought off host(I don't usually host).   Or maybe it has different stats on XBox or something.   Is there some trick to making the submunitions hit?  They always seem to go somewhere random for me(and seem to avoid guys. If you could get them to hit....that would help alot).  Maybe on XBox the fragments work differently? On PC they seem to fly off in a random(often useless) direction.  If they always want the same way, that would help.

Anyway:  
Charged shot damage  795(level x)
Gold phantom:  1675.5 health, 3075 barriers.  Total damage needed: 4750.5 /2= 2375.25
2375.25 / 795= 2.9877....call it 3.

To 2-shot a gold phantom you would need a 200%(ok, 198%) bonus.   That is possibly, but that is no way you are doing that at low level on a non-infiltartor without much in the way of consumables.

If I'm doing something wrong, I'd be happy to know, but it never seems do anywhere near the damage your saying it does.

[Almurat89]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Eric Fagnan wrote...

10 Least Used Weapons (All Difficulties)

1. Venom Shotgun (0.35%)
2. Incisor Sniper Rifle (0.46%)
3. Collector Sniper Rifle (0.51%)
4. Falcon Assault Rifle (0.58%)
5. Kishock Sniper Rifle (0.60%)
6. Raider Shotgun (0.60%)
7. Krysae Sniper Rifle (0.66%)
8. Javelin Sniper Rifle (0.66%)
9. Scimitar Shotgun (0.68%)
10. Spitfire Assault Rifle (0.72%)

10 Least Used Weapons (Gold & Platinum Only)

1. Incisor Sniper Rifle (0.23%)
2. Viper Sniper Rifle (0.32%)
3. Scimitar Shotgun (0.36%)
4. Vindicator Assault Rifle (0.39%)
5. Raptor Sniper Rifle (0.43%)
6. Venom Shotgun (0.46%)
7. Falcon Assault Rifle (0.47%)
8. Collector Sniper Rifle (0.54%)
9. Krysae Sniper Rifle (0.57%)
10. Argus Assault Rifle (0.61%)

To fool around with the thing, I decided to change its damage to 1600-1900 (this is ~25% more damage than a Claymore). Even then, its effectiveness was unimpressive. I don't think I'd like it even if I increased its damage all the way to 3000.

The biggest issue is its lackluister area of effect - to hit a target you practically have to land the grenade at its feet, hit it directly, or use the alternative firing mode. Even then, its weight class prevents it from being used to fill a "utility" role for most kits. The scorpion, falcon, and acolyte all weigh less, are relatively easier to acquire and can do the job better.

Most powerful shotgun in the game. And I don't understand why people underestimate it. o_O

[Original Twigman]

january42 wrote...

I'll take it from here then mega....

Acolyte: Mega, and I earlier in the thread, have stated that nothing really beats the acolyte on utility...

Scorpion: The "fact that it does more dmg" is an outright false statement. You are being mendacious, if you will. A venom with two charged shots, even at lower levels and without much in the way of consumables, will kill a phantom in two shots....not 4-5, which is what the scorpion needs.... two

Is there some magic formula to make it do decent damage, because I have it at X and have never seen that to be true.  Maybe it's bugged more than I thought off host(I don't usually host).   Or maybe it has different stats on XBox or something.   Is there some trick to making the submunitions hit?  They always seem to go somewhere random for me(and seem to avoid guys. If you could get them to hit....that would help alot).  Maybe on XBox the fragments work differently? On PC they seem to fly off in a random(often useless) direction.  If they always want the same way, that would help.

Anyway:  
Charged shot damage  795(level x)
Gold phantom:  1675.5 health, 3075 barriers.  Total damage needed: 4750.5 /2= 2375.25
2375.25 / 795= 2.9877....call it 3.

To 2-shot a gold phantom you would need a 200%(ok, 198%) bonus.   That is possibly, but that is no way you are doing that at low level on a non-infiltartor without much in the way of consumables.

If I'm doing something wrong, I'd be happy to know, but it never seems do anywhere near the damage your saying it does.

you are taking the stats of a weapon on its raw form, without actually putting it on a character with mods/weapon evos.

The venom always gets a 25% increase to damage due to the limited mods you can put on it, so there is that.. With my vorcha engineer, i go for full weapon damage, so there is that (another near 25%). Plus a beserker package (a 12%) boost.

you are also assuming that there are no consumables.

In essence, you are distorting the perception of the gun by making biased arguments that don't reflect its actual in-game function. You don't go into games with a level 1, no conusmables/mods, and then make claims on its performance vs. other weapons that are using it.

If i were to mimic your arguments, then the scorpion is even worse. 500 damage, + delayed shots. Krysase would be horrible, falcon would suck bawls, etc, etc.

there are fundamental flaws in your thought process when arguing against the favor of the venom

here is something concrete:

You can Two-shot a phantom with specific additive bonuses using the venom before you can two-shot a phantom with the same additive bonuses with any of the guns that i listed couldn't compete dps-wise.

Modifié par Original Stikman, 18 mai 2013 - 05:41 .

[Veno CRX]

megabeast37215 wrote...

LuckyBullet95 wrote...
Venom is great, and MUCH more fun to use than the other shotguns (Wraith, Claymore) and utility weapons (Adas, Falcon).

Isn't that the truth. Aside from being quite useful... the weapon is a TON of fun to use... that's it's greatest strength IMO... fun factor. Launching enemies like a damn mortar strike... lolz!

I agree with you Mega 100% on this on... this gun is lolawesome, anyone who says that gun is crap have never seen me using it and wrecking everything, though I will admit that at low level it's a bit annoying due to small clip size aside this small disadvantage it's Nr.1 fun gun in da game plus I don't need to carry acolyte to deal with on host phantoms this gun sends them flying high.

[Mister Blip]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Multi Frags own phantoms pretty hard, and the scorpion handles them better than the Venom does.

QFT. So does hydra missile launcher. So do at least 10 other weapons.

L2P, Phantom whiners. Use your powers...

[Learn To Love Yourself]

If this is a troll, the OP is a mastermind.

I do have a question about the Venom though. I do admit that it's a lot of fun to use (without the fun factor, who knows how useful it would really be?), but is it really best to aim right at the feet? I always felt like it did better damage when shot just in front of the feet, not even at the tops of the toes.

Some of the best attributes outside of "fun factor", as mentioned earlier, are the staggers and AOE ammo application. The Scorpion will not apply ammo effects unless shot directly at the target. Though the Falcon does have AOE stagger and ammo application (very good at that), it's damage is pretty pitiful. I think the Venom combines the best of both worlds.

I do wish it was a tad bit lighter, even with ULM. IIRC, it put an Engineer's powers at 3 sec cooldown (OL & ED), which is not enough time for other powers to detonate a TB.

[Veno CRX]

Jack Crapper wrote...

If this is a troll, the OP is a mastermind.

I do have a question about the Venom though. I do admit that it's a lot of fun to use (without the fun factor, who knows how useful it would really be?), but is it really best to aim right at the feet? I always felt like it did better damage when shot just in front of the feet, not even at the tops of the toes.

Some of the best attributes outside of "fun factor", as mentioned earlier, are the staggers and AOE ammo application. The Scorpion will not apply ammo effects unless shot directly at the target. Though the Falcon does have AOE stagger and ammo application (very good at that), it's damage is pretty pitiful. I think the Venom combines the best of both worlds.

I do wish it was a tad bit lighter, even with ULM. IIRC, it put an Engineer's powers at 3 sec cooldown (OL & ED), which is not enough time for other powers to detonate a TB.

You re right it gives best of both wepons and as far as weight it's not that big of a problem for me. Try it on QME or DrellAdept, KroSol for extra fun.

[Tallgeese_VII]

OP is not trolling.
However, he is saying Venom is good but not good enough to be taken over other weapons.
This applies to majority of weapons in this game though.

I don`t think this game is really hard enough for us to worry about absolute optimizations anymore, but I can see where his topic idea came from.

Anyway, Venom is not necessarily a weak weapon, it does not suffer from lag as much as Graal/GPS, and it is a good tool to kill Phantom while not breaking cloak.
If Venom was any stronger than current state.. Infiltrators will be too powerful once again.
I hope the non-charge Venom shot was bit stronger, but this won`t be done.

[january42]

Original Stikman wrote...

You can Two-shot a phantom with specific additive bonuses using the venom before you can two-shot a phantom with the same additive bonuses with any of the guns that i listed couldn't compete dps-wise.

Two-shotting is a red herrring, as the charge up makes the venon fire extremly slowly anyway(uncharged is really weak)   Basicly, you can fire off enough shots from a scorpion to take out a phantom  in the same time it takes a venom to fire off 2.  And it's alot easier due to the much larger are of effect. (and you can avoid the delay by firing at the feet....which you need to do wtih the venom also) The other guns have a much better time sustaining stagger due to no charge up also.

Anyway, the comparison is kinda silly anyway, as all the AOE weapons other than the scorpion and acolyte are underpowered anyway.

I'll admit I was wrong on one thing.  The venom actually has s smaller AOE than any of the other guns. It's so tiny it's barely useful.  I was thinking it's the same size as the adas...nope.  Smaller.  Wow is that terrible.

It doesn't do enough damage to to be useful as an general weapon, and the tiny AOE makes it weak in the utility role.