219 réponses à ce sujet

[Learn To Love Yourself]

Veno CRX wrote...

Jack Crapper wrote...

If this is a troll, the OP is a mastermind.

I do have a question about the Venom though. I do admit that it's a lot of fun to use (without the fun factor, who knows how useful it would really be?), but is it really best to aim right at the feet? I always felt like it did better damage when shot just in front of the feet, not even at the tops of the toes.

Some of the best attributes outside of "fun factor", as mentioned earlier, are the staggers and AOE ammo application. The Scorpion will not apply ammo effects unless shot directly at the target. Though the Falcon does have AOE stagger and ammo application (very good at that), it's damage is pretty pitiful. I think the Venom combines the best of both worlds.

I do wish it was a tad bit lighter, even with ULM. IIRC, it put an Engineer's powers at 3 sec cooldown (OL & ED), which is not enough time for other powers to detonate a TB.

You re right it gives best of both wepons and as far as weight it's not that big of a problem for me. Try it on QME or DrellAdept, KroSol for extra fun.

The first kit I used it on was the QME because of the 3 sec cooldown, which doesn't matter to him.  It is still fun on the HE & SE, but ma combos!

I'll give it a shot on the DA next time

[Max Dmian]

january42 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

You can Two-shot a phantom with specific additive bonuses using the venom before you can two-shot a phantom with the same additive bonuses with any of the guns that i listed couldn't compete dps-wise.

Two-shotting is a red herrring, as the charge up makes the venon fire extremly slowly anyway(uncharged is really weak)   Basicly, you can fire off enough shots from a scorpion to take out a phantom  in the same time it takes a venom to fire off 2.  And it's alot easier due to the much larger are of effect. (and you can avoid the delay by firing at the feet....which you need to do wtih the venom also) The other guns have a much better time sustaining stagger due to no charge up also.

Anyway, the comparison is kinda silly anyway, as all the AOE weapons other than the scorpion and acolyte are underpowered anyway.

I'll admit I was wrong on one thing.  The venom actually has s smaller AOE than any of the other guns. It's so tiny it's barely useful.  I was thinking it's the same size as the adas...nope.  Smaller.  Wow is that terrible.

It doesn't do enough damage to to be useful as an general weapon, and the tiny AOE makes it weak in the utility role.

You're just ignoring the effort other people put into explaining their arguments right?
Just take a look at the videos we posted in this thread. Everything that's been talked about is right there. You can double-tap the Venom - which can kill a Phantom faster than any other gun in the game (except for the Javelin of course) if you know how to handle it. Video evidence. 

[CitizenThom]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

Multi Frags own phantoms pretty hard, and the scorpion handles them better than the Venom does.

Stasis-Scorpion is my favorite Phantom disposal tool with the Asari Adept.

[Original Twigman]

january42 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...

You can Two-shot a phantom with specific additive bonuses using the venom before you can two-shot a phantom with the same additive bonuses with any of the guns that i listed couldn't compete dps-wise.

Two-shotting is a red herrring, as the charge up makes the venon fire extremly slowly anyway(uncharged is really weak)   Basicly, you can fire off enough shots from a scorpion to take out a phantom  in the same time it takes a venom to fire off 2.  And it's alot easier due to the much larger are of effect. (and you can avoid the delay by firing at the feet....which you need to do wtih the venom also) The other guns have a much better time sustaining stagger due to no charge up also.

Anyway, the comparison is kinda silly anyway, as all the AOE weapons other than the scorpion and acolyte are underpowered anyway.

I'll admit I was wrong on one thing.  The venom actually has s smaller AOE than any of the other guns. It's so tiny it's barely useful.  I was thinking it's the same size as the adas...nope.  Smaller.  Wow is that terrible.

It doesn't do enough damage to to be useful as an general weapon, and the tiny AOE makes it weak in the utility role.

im now convinced you A) dont know how to argue considering your poor use of "red herring" and are stubborn in the face of being incorrect. your paltry admittance to bein incorrect is a cover-up for you saying you are right.

just plain dumb

like people who would still argue the world is flat

[megawug]

Sound like a good gun for mQE and Saboteur.  Heavier, but more firepower.  Like to try it out if I ever get it.

Modifié par megawug, 18 mai 2013 - 06:57 .

[Tallgeese_VII]

megawug wrote...

Sound like a good gun for mQE and Saboteur.  Heavier, but more firepower.  Like to try it out if I ever get it.

I didn`t like it with my MQE.
Not because it is bad... but because with MQE I use all 3 power buttons constantly.. and have no time to hold trigger button meanwhile...

[january42]

Original Stikman wrote...


im now convinced you A) dont know how to argue considering your poor use of "red herring" and are stubborn in the face of being incorrect. your paltry admittance to bein incorrect is a cover-up for you saying you are right.

just plain dumb

like people who would still argue the world is flat

Have you actually used any the of the guns we are talking about? I tried it again to today just for the heck of it. Yup, still weak with a tiny AOE.  That's the worst of it really.  If it had an actual area, it would be about the same as the others.  As is, it does a bit more damage (scorpion is much better for DPS) but doesn't really have the area to make up for it, as to hit multiple guys they have to be almost on top of each other.

I'm really beginning to think it actually is different on Xbox.

[Original Twigman]

january42 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


im now convinced you A) dont know how to argue considering your poor use of "red herring" and are stubborn in the face of being incorrect. your paltry admittance to bein incorrect is a cover-up for you saying you are right.

just plain dumb

like people who would still argue the world is flat

I'm really beginning to think it actually is different on Xbox.

thats a red herring as it posits something untrue and unrelated.

this is an ad hominem: your argument is stupid and BS

[Veno CRX]

january42 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


im now convinced you A) dont know how to argue considering your poor use of "red herring" and are stubborn in the face of being incorrect. your paltry admittance to bein incorrect is a cover-up for you saying you are right.

just plain dumb

like people who would still argue the world is flat

Have you actually used any the of the guns we are talking about? I tried it again to today just for the heck of it. Yup, still weak with a tiny AOE.  That's the worst of it really.  If it had an actual area, it would be about the same as the others.  As is, it does a bit more damage (scorpion is much better for DPS) but doesn't really have the area to make up for it, as to hit multiple guys they have to be almost on top of each other.

I'm really beginning to think it actually is different on Xbox.

Check my challenges and decide for yoursel if I actualy used this gun. Link in da signature.

[megawug]

january42 wrote...

Original Stikman wrote...


im now convinced you A) dont know how to argue considering your poor use of "red herring" and are stubborn in the face of being incorrect. your paltry admittance to bein incorrect is a cover-up for you saying you are right.

just plain dumb

like people who would still argue the world is flat

Have you actually used any the of the guns we are talking about? I tried it again to today just for the heck of it. Yup, still weak with a tiny AOE.  That's the worst of it really.  If it had an actual area, it would be about the same as the others.  As is, it does a bit more damage (scorpion is much better for DPS) but doesn't really have the area to make up for it, as to hit multiple guys they have to be almost on top of each other.

I'm really beginning to think it actually is different on Xbox.

Dude, we know the damage values for each weapon.  There's no way the Scorpion can out DPS the Venom.  The only two real drawbacks I see is that the Venom is a bit heavy and needs to be aimed at the ground.  This makes it a mediocre choice for some power-based characters.

[Cyonan]

megawug wrote...

Dude, we know the damage values for each weapon.  There's no way the Scorpion can out DPS the Venom.  The only two real drawbacks I see is that the Venom is a bit heavy and needs to be aimed at the ground.  This makes it a mediocre choice for some power-based characters.

Scorpion would probably win if you're using the charge mechanic, which I get the impression that a lot of people here are, probably because they did in SP. While it was hilariously OP in singleplayer dealing 5x damage, it's really quite bad in multiplayer doing only 1.25x damage.

If you just spam the uncharged shots, it becomes a heavy Scorpion that hits almost twice as hard per shot.

[TheKillerAngel]

megabeast37215 wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...
I'm not using it as a benchmark. Let's reduce our pool to "utility weapons." If you want a utility weapon to deal with troublesome enemies like Phantoms, you can choose among:

The Acolyte (huge damage vs shields/barriers)
The Scorpion (lighter, potentially bigger magsize, larger AoE)
The Falcon (can bank shots off walls, weighs less, bigger magsize)
The Geth Plasma Shotgun (better damage, bigger magazine size, better accuracy and range)
The Adas (weighs less, magsize is so big you can ULM it instead, better range/hit detection)

These weapons are generally not going to excel as primary damage dealers, but neither does the Venom. We don't even need to bring the Reegar into this. Compared to most of the hitscan shotguns (Raider/Claymore/Wraith/Piranha) it's just utterly lacking.

Acolyte = best utility weapon in the game... no doubt.
Scorpion = Inferior to the Venom at the same job... but it is lighter
Falcon = Inferior to the Venom... utterly.
Geth Plasma Shotgun = Very similar in performance, but heavier and you can't shoot it at the ceiling and shower enemies with grenades or hit groups (very easy to get triple kills with the Venom).
Adas = Why is this even brought up? It's garbage. Completely inferior to the Venom in all aspects.

Venom deals fine damage except vs Bosses. I like to pair it with classes that have a power that deals with Armor effectively like Incinerate or Grenades.

The other thing the Venom has going for it is fun factor... it has amazing physics. Launching Phantoms into the sky has never been more satisfying.

I still don't like the Venom, but as this thread shows it's clearly a very polarizing (perhaps one of the most polarizing) weapons around. I have no doubt that you find it useful, and while I can do quite well with the weapon (there are some people here who think I don't know how to use it - I do) I find that its alternatives are just superior. We aren't going to convince each other, so we'll agree to disagree.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 18 mai 2013 - 08:17 .

[peddroelm]

I don't the Venom much either ...

"A nutmeg (or tunnel) is a technique used in soccer football or field hockey, in which a player rolls the ball through an opponent's legs "

No doubt it would do great on a soccer/hockey field - but in ME3 I find shot after shot harmlessly passing trough opponent's legs nothing short of infuriating ...

[january42]

Cyonan wrote...

megawug wrote...

Dude, we know the damage values for each weapon.  There's no way the Scorpion can out DPS the Venom.  The only two real drawbacks I see is that the Venom is a bit heavy and needs to be aimed at the ground.  This makes it a mediocre choice for some power-based characters.

Scorpion would probably win if you're using the charge mechanic, which I get the impression that a lot of people here are, probably because they did in SP. While it was hilariously OP in singleplayer dealing 5x damage, it's really quite bad in multiplayer doing only 1.25x damage.

If you just spam the uncharged shots, it becomes a heavy Scorpion that hits almost twice as hard per shot.

According to the links in your signature the Venom does 795 at level x.  minimum charge multiplieris 0.25x,  maximum multiplier is 1.00x  So....if you charge it, does 795, uncharged is 795 * .25 = 198.25


If the multipliers are actually 1.00 and 1.25......that makes it better, but not by a whole lot.
Trying it...hmm.  It does seem to do more damage uncharged than it should.  Takes about 3 shots to kill a trooper on gold.   I was mostly using charged shots with uncharged as a finisher occasionally.   If only the uncharged shots hat the scorpions area.

Unfortunatly, it doesn't have any aoe worth mentioning uncharged, so that basicly makes it a crusader where you trade accuracy, ap  and the ability to make headshots for a useless AOE and entertaining physics when you kill guys.

Charged shots really should do more. either a larger damage multipler or a real area(it's still pathetic).

[Blue Face Beast]

There is a reason the Venom shotgun is so not used. I do not have one.

[HeroicMass]

january42 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

megawug wrote...

Dude, we know the damage values for each weapon.  There's no way the Scorpion can out DPS the Venom.  The only two real drawbacks I see is that the Venom is a bit heavy and needs to be aimed at the ground.  This makes it a mediocre choice for some power-based characters.

Scorpion would probably win if you're using the charge mechanic, which I get the impression that a lot of people here are, probably because they did in SP. While it was hilariously OP in singleplayer dealing 5x damage, it's really quite bad in multiplayer doing only 1.25x damage.

If you just spam the uncharged shots, it becomes a heavy Scorpion that hits almost twice as hard per shot.

According to the links in your signature the Venom does 795 at level x.  minimum charge multiplieris 0.25x,  maximum multiplier is 1.00x  So....if you charge it, does 795, uncharged is 795 * .25 = 198.25


If the multipliers are actually 1.00 and 1.25......that makes it better, but not by a whole lot.
Trying it...hmm.  It does seem to do more damage uncharged than it should.  Takes about 3 shots to kill a trooper on gold.   I was mostly using charged shots with uncharged as a finisher occasionally.   If only the uncharged shots hat the scorpions area.

Unfortunatly, it doesn't have any aoe worth mentioning uncharged, so that basicly makes it a crusader where you trade accuracy, ap  and the ability to make headshots for a useless AOE and entertaining physics when you kill guys.

Charged shots really should do more. either a larger damage multipler or a real area(it's still pathetic).

Don't forget that the 25% is multiplicative.  This makes passives and amps much more important for the charge mechanic than anything you could read on those spreadsheets.  Also, keep playing with it.  Once you get your feel for the venom, you will be a believer.

[mybudgee]

aim for the baby toe

[MaxShine]

I do prefer the Venom to the Wraith (Wraith is actually overall favorite shotgun) on engineer classes... Could be good on some of the Sentinels too, but I haven't tried it yet.

[Kirrahe Airlines CEO]

I love the venom on the EDI bot. Cloak>Snap Freeze>Release charge shot. I have been using it a lot to train my aim on it.

[LuckyBullet95]

january42 wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

megawug wrote...

Dude, we know the damage values for each weapon.  There's no way the Scorpion can out DPS the Venom.  The only two real drawbacks I see is that the Venom is a bit heavy and needs to be aimed at the ground.  This makes it a mediocre choice for some power-based characters.

Scorpion would probably win if you're using the charge mechanic, which I get the impression that a lot of people here are, probably because they did in SP. While it was hilariously OP in singleplayer dealing 5x damage, it's really quite bad in multiplayer doing only 1.25x damage.

If you just spam the uncharged shots, it becomes a heavy Scorpion that hits almost twice as hard per shot.

According to the links in your signature the Venom does 795 at level x.  minimum charge multiplieris 0.25x,  maximum multiplier is 1.00x  So....if you charge it, does 795, uncharged is 795 * .25 = 198.25


If the multipliers are actually 1.00 and 1.25......that makes it better, but not by a whole lot.
Trying it...hmm.  It does seem to do more damage uncharged than it should.  Takes about 3 shots to kill a trooper on gold.   I was mostly using charged shots with uncharged as a finisher occasionally.   If only the uncharged shots hat the scorpions area.

Unfortunatly, it doesn't have any aoe worth mentioning uncharged, so that basicly makes it a crusader where you trade accuracy, ap  and the ability to make headshots for a useless AOE and entertaining physics when you kill guys.

Charged shots really should do more. either a larger damage multipler or a real area(it's still pathetic).

*Facepalm*

This is why idiots shouldn't be allowed on the internet. If you applied any bit of common sense to that information you would have seen it was clearly a misprint, misunderstood or outright incorrect. Do you really think BioWare would make a Charge Shot that sacrifices 75% if the weapons damage for two times a relatively ****ty radius? Even if so you had to see it was either glitched (the weapon) or incorrect (the stats sheet) when you weren't needing to fire off 2 clips to kill an Assault Trooper...

[january42]

heroicmass wrote...



Don't forget that the 25% is multiplicative.  This makes passives and amps much more important for the charge mechanic than anything you could read on those spreadsheets.  Also, keep playing with it.  Once you get your feel for the venom, you will be a believer.

I tried it.  It's better at at dealing damage if you do mostly uncharged shots,  I'll give it that.  Still doesn't feel useful.   

Uncharged shots do OK damage, but you run out of ammo quickly and there is basicly no AOE, so you either have to hit the target or right at their feet....honestly, it's actually harder to hit with that most other shotguns.  And the lack of penetration is annoying.   It's not really good at range due to the arcing.  Reload being gowdawful slow(even with canceling) doesn't help any.


Charged shots basicly don't do a whole lot, and still have a fairly small area. And the bomblets seem to go off in random directions that are only sometimes useful. It basicly kinda fails as an AOE crowd control gun also.

So charged shtos basicly are a utility gun(but a bad one sadly due to small area).

Uncharged basicly acts like projectile weapon with an area that almost never matters.

[HeroicMass]

january42 wrote...

heroicmass wrote...



Don't forget that the 25% is multiplicative.  This makes passives and amps much more important for the charge mechanic than anything you could read on those spreadsheets.  Also, keep playing with it.  Once you get your feel for the venom, you will be a believer.

I tried it.  It's better at at dealing damage if you do mostly uncharged shots,  I'll give it that.  Still doesn't feel useful.   

Uncharged shots do OK damage, but you run out of ammo quickly and there is basicly no AOE, so you either have to hit the target or right at their feet....honestly, it's actually harder to hit with that most other shotguns.  And the lack of penetration is annoying.   It's not really good at range due to the arcing.  Reload being gowdawful slow(even with canceling) doesn't help any.


Charged shots basicly don't do a whole lot, and still have a fairly small area. And the bomblets seem to go off in random directions that are only sometimes useful. It basicly kinda fails as an AOE crowd control gun also.

So charged shtos basicly are a utility gun(but a bad one sadly due to small area).

Uncharged basicly acts like projectile weapon with an area that almost never matters.

dont worry, I probably have more experience with this gun than most anyone in this game with how much I use it.  With all of the options out there, I find it one of the best in the game.  It has many bonuses and few drawbacks.  Hitting enemies with it is not hard, but it does act differently from other guns so it does take a little time to get used to it.

Keep working with it.

[SlimJim0725]

heroicmass wrote...

january42 wrote...

heroicmass wrote...



Don't forget that the 25% is multiplicative.  This makes passives and amps much more important for the charge mechanic than anything you could read on those spreadsheets.  Also, keep playing with it.  Once you get your feel for the venom, you will be a believer.

I tried it.  It's better at at dealing damage if you do mostly uncharged shots,  I'll give it that.  Still doesn't feel useful.   

Uncharged shots do OK damage, but you run out of ammo quickly and there is basicly no AOE, so you either have to hit the target or right at their feet....honestly, it's actually harder to hit with that most other shotguns.  And the lack of penetration is annoying.   It's not really good at range due to the arcing.  Reload being gowdawful slow(even with canceling) doesn't help any.


Charged shots basicly don't do a whole lot, and still have a fairly small area. And the bomblets seem to go off in random directions that are only sometimes useful. It basicly kinda fails as an AOE crowd control gun also.

So charged shtos basicly are a utility gun(but a bad one sadly due to small area).

Uncharged basicly acts like projectile weapon with an area that almost never matters.

dont worry, I probably have more experience with this gun than most anyone in this game with how much I use it.  With all of the options out there, I find it one of the best in the game.  It has many bonuses and few drawbacks.  Hitting enemies with it is not hard, but it does act differently from other guns so it does take a little time to get used to it.

Keep working with it.

IDK about that. I do have more free time than you. 

[Cyonan]

january42 wrote...

According to the links in your signature the Venom does 795 at level x.  minimum charge multiplieris 0.25x,  maximum multiplier is 1.00x  So....if you charge it, does 795, uncharged is 795 * .25 = 198.25


If the multipliers are actually 1.00 and 1.25......that makes it better, but not by a whole lot.
Trying it...hmm.  It does seem to do more damage uncharged than it should.  Takes about 3 shots to kill a trooper on gold.   I was mostly using charged shots with uncharged as a finisher occasionally.   If only the uncharged shots hat the scorpions area.

Unfortunatly, it doesn't have any aoe worth mentioning uncharged, so that basicly makes it a crusader where you trade accuracy, ap  and the ability to make headshots for a useless AOE and entertaining physics when you kill guys.

Charged shots really should do more. either a larger damage multipler or a real area(it's still pathetic).

The stats on the gun are just misleading rather than a typo.

The gun does 1.00x while charged and has a modifier of 0.25x while charged. Of course while charged you also get 5 explosives for 5 * 0.25 = 1.25x damage.

Uncharged, the Venom is basically a heavy Scorpion. It brings all the utility of it while also bringing more damage.

The problem with the charged attack was that it got hit way too hard by the nerf bat on the way into MP. It went from being absurdly overpowered at 5x damage across 5 hits to 1.25x damage across 5 hits, with a bit of an increase in base damage.

Edit: I was wrong. In MP it's only 3 projectiles so it's 0.4167x damage each.

Modifié par Cyonan, 18 mai 2013 - 10:22 .

[megabeast37215]

Cyonan... Is it possible to shoot the floor, which makes an explosion, then the three projectiles each make their own explosion... For 4 total? I shoot it right in front of enemies feet or on their tippy toes and I know for a fact it makes a visible explosion when it splits into the smaller projectiles. This is easily seen when you shoot it at the ceiling and shower mobs with it.