428 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

well that is why i said " if i completely missed the point "

i wasn't trying to argue which was best, just that you cannot base your choice on whether or not the reapers are better off dead or as slaves ... or i suppose free in synthesis

[AlanC9]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
So you would be perfectly fine watching as your new body, that you can't control, goes around and kills off millions every 50K years or so, and there was not a single thing you can do to stop it?

Please, I'd rather be dead.

That is a fate worse than death.

Shepard can't undo any of that. It's already happened. All that Shepard can do is kill you after it's happened. Why would that be preferable, to your past self or the present one?

[AlanC9]

jtav wrote...

The "war crime" argument rests on the answer to the question: "Is destroying Reapers and the resulting collateral damage necessary to stop the harvest?" If you see the other two options as evil by their very nature or ineffective, then the answer may be yes.

And if the answer isn't yes, why are you picking Destroy?

[jtav]

AlanC9 wrote...

jtav wrote...

The "war crime" argument rests on the answer to the question: "Is destroying Reapers and the resulting collateral damage necessary to stop the harvest?" If you see the other two options as evil by their very nature or ineffective, then the answer may be yes.

And if the answer isn't yes, why are you picking Destroy?

I wouldn't if the answer wasn't yes.

Truthfully, the game doesn't offer space for my real world opinion of "Synthetics aren't people, just really fancy computer programs" so trying to figure out the ethical choice once you say they are people gives me a headache.

[Ticonderoga117]

AlanC9 wrote...
Shepard can't undo any of that. It's already happened. All that Shepard can do is kill you after it's happened. Why would that be preferable, to your past self or the present one?

Because I wouldn't then be killing life simply because my boss master is a moron? Because then I will be free of this horrible fate?

[frostajulie]

IanPolaris wrote...

To put it very pithily and bluntly, you shouldn't have to be a war criminal just to win the game.

-Polaris

love you:wub:

this exactly

[Iakus]

frostajulie wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

To put it very pithily and bluntly, you shouldn't have to be a war criminal just to win the game.

-Polaris

love you:wub:

this exactly

Indeed.

And until Bioware acknowledges this, then their whole "lesson learned' thing amounts to nothing.

[AlanC9]

jtav wrote...

Truthfully, the game doesn't offer space for my real world opinion of "Synthetics aren't people, just really fancy computer programs" so trying to figure out the ethical choice once you say they are people gives me a headache.

I thought Shepard could say something like that when Chakwas and Adams get into an argument; I always agree with Adams there so I've never actually seen the alternative line.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 mai 2013 - 09:09 .

[AlanC9]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Shepard can't undo any of that. It's already happened. All that Shepard can do is kill you after it's happened. Why would that be preferable, to your past self or the present one?

Because I wouldn't then be killing life simply because my boss master is a moron? Because then I will be free of this horrible fate?

But you've already done the killing; Shepard doesn't have a time machine that can kill you before you do the killing.  The question is whether you want to die after you've done it.

If you're saying you would want to die, out of some misplaced feelings of guilt or something, that's fine.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 mai 2013 - 09:13 .

[Ticonderoga117]

AlanC9 wrote...

But you've already done the killing; Shepard doesn't have a time machine that can kill you before you do the killing.  The question is whether you want to die after you've done it.

If you're saying you would want to die, out of some misplaced feelings of guilt or something, that's fine.

More like it would put an end to the insanity and if I'm dead... that's one less Reaper.

[AlanC9]

Well, Reapers who want to die and ask my Sheplysts nicely can fly themselves into a sun if they want. I still don't see any reason to make that decision for them

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

To put it very pithily and bluntly, you shouldn't have to be a war criminal just to win the game.

-Polaris

love you

this exactly

Indeed.

And until Bioware acknowledges this, then their whole "lesson learned' thing amounts to nothing.

What about those of us who simply did what we needed to do in order to defeat the ancient, near-invincible mechanical Cthulhu? Are we barbaric war criminals in your eyes?

[Ticonderoga117]

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, Reapers who want to die and ask my Sheplysts nicely can fly themselves into a sun if they want. I still don't see any reason to make that decision for them

Because the minds that were uploaded have no choice in the matter while the giant evil killing machine has been making all the decisions?

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

What about those of us who simply did what we needed to do in order to defeat the ancient, near-invincible mechanical Cthulhu? Are we barbaric war criminals in your eyes?

Well, stone cold Renegade, at least 

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

What about those of us who simply did what we needed to do in order to defeat the ancient, near-invincible mechanical Cthulhu? Are we barbaric war criminals in your eyes?

Well, stone cold Renegade, at least 

Ruthless calculus is a bitch.

[SpamBot2000]

iakus wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

To put it very pithily and bluntly, you shouldn't have to be a war criminal just to win the game.

-Polaris

love you:wub:

this exactly

Indeed.

And until Bioware acknowledges this, then their whole "lesson learned' thing amounts to nothing.

QFT.

[AlanC9]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Well, Reapers who want to die and ask my Sheplysts nicely can fly themselves into a sun if they want. I still don't see any reason to make that decision for them

Because the minds that were uploaded have no choice in the matter while the giant evil killing machine has been making all the decisions?

 Exactly what do you think is going on inside a Reaper? Specifically a post-ending Reaper.

Modifié par AlanC9, 18 mai 2013 - 10:56 .

[AlanC9]

SpamBot2000 wrote...

iakus wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

To put it very pithily and bluntly, you shouldn't have to be a war criminal just to win the game.

-Polaris

love you:wub:

this exactly

Indeed.

And until Bioware acknowledges this, then their whole "lesson learned' thing amounts to nothing.

QFT.

Yep. Bio's fired players who feel like you,  and it's time to get on with your lives.

[Ticonderoga117]

AlanC9 wrote...
Exactly what do you think is going on inside a Reaper? Specifically a post-ending Reaper.

Well, that's hard to say since we aren't sure what's going on inside a Reaper pre-ending.

Especially since the Catalyst tosses a large chunk of that out the window.

[AlanC9]

So how come you're certain enough about it to think that there are minds in the Reapers that want to die?

[AresKeith]

AlanC9 wrote...

Yep. Bio's fired players who feel like you,  and it's time to get on with your lives.

How would they fire us?

[Ticonderoga117]

AlanC9 wrote...

So how come you're certain enough about it to think that there are minds in the Reapers that want to die?

Because I would like to think they were at some point sane enough to not agree with the Reapers?
That they weren't murderers?

Does it really need to be spelled out that the Reapers are evil and that being stuck inside one most likely isn't a pleasant experiance, if the initial step doesn't make that clear.

If there are any individual minds left intact after being blended, melded, and then left that way for who knows how long, I'd like to think they would like to not be a part of this madness.

[AlanC9]

AresKeith wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Yep. Bio's fired players who feel like you,  and it's time to get on with your lives.

How would they fire us?

By making games you won't like?

[jtav]

But that doesn't mean they want to die; they might prefer Synthesis or even another master to death.

[AlanC9]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...


Does it really need to be spelled out that the Reapers are evil and that being stuck inside one most likely isn't a pleasant experiance, if the initial step doesn't make that clear.

If there are any individual minds left intact after being blended, melded, and then left that way for who knows how long, I'd like to think they would like to not be a part of this madness.

Who says there's any experience at all for the minds in the Reaper, or if they even still independently exist?