152 réponses à ce sujet

[dekkerd]

ScarMK wrote...

BoBear wrote...

Just take away potion cool downs. It's not an ability, it's a potion. It makes no sense to make the characters wait x amount of time to drink something.

If you take it away, people will complain that it makes fights trivial since you can spam them.  Most people have no restraint.

any player in that mindset is in for a surprise with the first freeze/stun/trap that prevents potion use just long enough. A small cool down is fine. But all mages should have basic heal as a learnable spell. 

[ScarMK]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Everyone should be able to heal and pick locks; especialy the PC.

Why should everyone be able to pick locks and heal? Why would a warrior or fighter need to learn to pick a lock? Everyone cannot heal because in the DA universe that would make everyone by birth a mage. Mages are the one's that can manulipate mana.

In the D & D universe wizards and sorcerers could not heal, clerics , rangers, druids and paladins could.

. I like the fact that Merrill cannot heal because it means approaching combat in a different way. You have to take into account that the mage you have cannot heal. 

In fact I left Anders in his clinic except to do his quests. I took Merrill with the party most of the time. I had a party that focus on offensive output needing only a few health and mana potions in DA2. For that party the best defense was a good offense.

While that's fine and dandy, it would be nice to have a lore reason as to why a mage won't use X- spell/X-X school of magic.  

[Metalcrazed]

Anyone can learn to pick a lock in real life you don't have to be stealthy.
I would like to have to find a guy in game to teach you,then it would make sense for anyone.

[Twisted Path]

DA2 was relatively easy to play without a healer but in a lot of RPGs healers are more necessary. I imagine going into DA2 a lot of people felt obligated to bring a healer along and didn't realize you can make do without one and got really annoyed feeling like they were stuck with Anders for the last two thirds of the game.

In a game where party-member personality is one of the central elements having a decent amount of redundancy between characters is a pretty good thing, since someone is always going to hate various characters. Origins had a bit of this problem too. If you didn't play a rogue but wanted to unlock doors and chests you were pretty much stuck with Leiliana for a long portion of the game, and I imagine it gets frustrating for players who really didn't like Leiliana.

Modifié par Twisted Path, 19 mai 2013 - 01:19 .

[Deebo305]

Aside from the High Dragon fight I rarely find any need for Anders especially since I kill him in every playthrough lol

Truth be told a healer isn't really needed in DA2, Warrior like Fenris and Aveline are tanks especially if you give them Rally and Battle Synergy. Rouge like Varric and Isabella have the Stealth tree plus both can use miasmic flask and confusion if thing get tight. Merril with Primal, Spirit,and Dalish Pariah trees is pretty beefy. It alk really depends in the right builds and giving character good passive skills

[Catfish Shotgun]

I managed to get through DA2 on Hard without any healers. Given, some parts were considerably difficult. Just takes a bit (in some cases, a lot, like, a LOOT) of micromanagement. Luckily for me, I like micro-managing. However I often found myself using the revive grenades a fair bit in the last third of the game, and just barely making it through many fights. I recall a moment where it was only an almost-dead Merrill and an Elite-lvl Rage Demon left in the battle - (eventually) winning this consisted of running around the room in a circle for AGES periodically freezing him when he did the underground thing and just poking away at his health.

This isn't a bad thing, though. Just barely making it through a fight where you have to manoeuvre everyone, barely drink health potions in time while they're on cooldown for 30 secs, and throw revive grenades left right and centre, only to Just Barely win with only Fenris left at 1/5 health, is pretty thrilling. A Challenge is always fun.

[KDD-0063]

It's okay to run through DA2 without Anders.

That being said, Anders shouldn't be the only healer; even though you can run through DA2 without healing, those who like a more sustain heavy combat style are stuck with Anders.

However I wish Bioware could be more creative with sustaining in combat. Right now it's just potion and mage healing.

Party heal capabilities could be available to warriors or rogues too.
For example, take DAO's Champion specialization, design a passive ability that heals your party every time you use war cry. Could scale with willpower or constitution, or mutually exclusive with Superiority.
Or the reaver specialization, an active ability that lasts for a few seconds that heals the whole party based on the damage you do to enemies.
Heals on bard or shadow abilities could be possible too.
Or guardian specialization having an active ability that puts a damage shield on all party members.

Bottom line is there should be a choice between damage, control and support. A character should not be able to do everything well. If such abilities are too powerful, make them mutually exclusive with other powerful abilities.

[Solmanian]

Realmzmaster wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Everyone should be able to heal and pick locks; especialy the PC.

Why should everyone be able to pick locks and heal? Why would a warrior or fighter need to learn to pick a lock? Everyone cannot heal because in the DA universe that would make everyone by birth a mage. Mages are the one's that can manulipate mana.

In the D & D universe wizards and sorcerers could not heal, clerics , rangers, druids and paladins could.

It's called first aid, it's a real life skill aswell as a D&D one. And in case you're trying the "magical healing is superior", lore wise magical healing doesn't mean you just pop a spell and the guy is as good as new, just watch every scene where an NPC mage heals another NPC; it's merely because of the suspension of disbelief that it is tolerated in the gameplay, becaue the alternative means lengthy rest periods in a hospital... It's the same thing that allows medigel revive a guy that had his heart ripped out by a banshee.

Any adventurer sooner or later is bound to enconter locked objects that needs to be opened. Maybe he simply bashes it open or cast a spell, going back and spending a week looking for a thief to open it is stupid as anyone who played WOW can tell you. That's why as of 3rd edition any class could pick up the lockpick skill, you just had penelties if you weren't a rogue.

[Plaintiff]

I think every character in a party-based game should bring different skills to the table. If every mage is going to have healing abilities, then there needs to be something else to differentiate them.

[Big I]

ScarMK wrote...

TinuHawke wrote...

ScarMK wrote...

BoBear wrote...
Just take away potion cool downs. It's not an ability, it's a potion. It makes no sense to make the characters wait x amount of time to drink something.

If you take it away, people will complain that it makes fights trivial since you can spam them.  Most people have no restraint.

Are they connected to the difficulty level?

Not that I know of.  Combat was so tedious in DA2 that I just left it on casual.

Potion drops from enemies in DA2 is dependent on how many you have in your inventory, with smaller caps on higher difficulties. I think the most you could carry on Nightmare before they stopped dropping was four. I can't remember if potions were soft capped (you can go and waste your gold on buying potions if you want) or hard capped (you could only carry four healing/mana potions at a time).

[Realmzmaster]

Solmanian wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

Solmanian wrote...

Everyone should be able to heal and pick locks; especialy the PC.

Why should everyone be able to pick locks and heal? Why would a warrior or fighter need to learn to pick a lock? Everyone cannot heal because in the DA universe that would make everyone by birth a mage. Mages are the one's that can manulipate mana.

In the D & D universe wizards and sorcerers could not heal, clerics , rangers, druids and paladins could.

It's called first aid, it's a real life skill aswell as a D&D one. And in case you're trying the "magical healing is superior", lore wise magical healing doesn't mean you just pop a spell and the guy is as good as new, just watch every scene where an NPC mage heals another NPC; it's merely because of the suspension of disbelief that it is tolerated in the gameplay, becaue the alternative means lengthy rest periods in a hospital... It's the same thing that allows medigel revive a guy that had his heart ripped out by a banshee.

Any adventurer sooner or later is bound to enconter locked objects that needs to be opened. Maybe he simply bashes it open or cast a spell, going back and spending a week looking for a thief to open it is stupid as anyone who played WOW can tell you. That's why as of 3rd edition any class could pick up the lockpick skill, you just had penelties if you weren't a rogue.

If you have a balanced party there is no reason for everyone to know the lockpick skill. The only reason the 3rd edition rules allowed every class to pick a lock is for people who did not want to include a rogue in the party. If you choose to not use a balanced party then that is the penalty you should encounter. If you already have a thief in your party you do not have to go back and get one.

Yes, first aid is a skill in D & D, but magical healing in D & D is divine and the healing is instant. The cleric, druid, paladin or ranger has to pray for their spells. You are being healed by the power of their god. No hospital or any other stay required.

The first aid skill in D & D (and games based on the system)  is used to stablize a companion whose hit points have dropped below zero. The reason why first aid is important in D & D is that the companion can die. In the DA universe the companion reaches zero and falls unconcious. Nothing else will happen. After combat the companion will be back up and good as new.
The D & D system requires the companion to rest, drink a heal potion or have a heal spell cast upon him/her.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

M25105 wrote...

Please make sure you have at least two different companions you can pick with healing abilities, nothing sucked more than having to take that whining murderer Anders with me all the time cause he was the healer.

Seriously, it was almost as bad as the zones being reused.

WOW, OP needs,

A gut check, a history book, a psych lecture, a nap, some milk and cookies, a bedtime story, another gut check, a course in critical and independent thinking, to spend a summer in a third world country, a FINAL gut check, and one part multivariable calc / Physical Chemistry to humble him again.

You shouldn't need to spam health potions. You're either a terrible mage, a terrible warrior, or you just need a lower than easy difficulty setting.

COME AT ME BRO! Pro Anders Group. Peace

[Ridwan]

iiReaperZz wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Please make sure you have at least two different companions you can pick with healing abilities, nothing sucked more than having to take that whining murderer Anders with me all the time cause he was the healer.

Seriously, it was almost as bad as the zones being reused.

WOW, OP needs,

A gut check, a history book, a psych lecture, a nap, some milk and cookies, a bedtime story, another gut check, a course in critical and independent thinking, to spend a summer in a third world country, a FINAL gut check, and one part multivariable calc / Physical Chemistry to humble him again.

You shouldn't need to spam health potions. You're either a terrible mage, a terrible warrior, or you just need a lower than easy difficulty setting.

COME AT ME BRO! Pro Anders Group. Peace

No wonder you're trying so hard, you support a failure.

[Rodia Driftwood]

M25105 wrote...

Please make sure you have at least two different companions you can pick with healing abilities, nothing sucked more than having to take that whining murderer Anders with me all the time cause he was the healer.

Seriously, it was almost as bad as the zones being reused.

Oh, my god, so I wasn't the only one? 

[9TailsFox]

You can heal in DA2? It's like non existent think heal cool down 40s so it doesn't rely mater you have only 1 healer.

Modifié par 9TailsFox, 19 mai 2013 - 07:30 .

[Ananka]

^^

Play as a mage, get some skills in healing, leave Anders behind. It's awesome.
With that said, I love having both Fenris and Anders in the party. The hostility is great to listen to.

Modifié par Annaka, 19 mai 2013 - 07:39 .

[BounceDK]

I hate Anders. It was pure joy when I killed him.

[Fiddles dee dee]

The mods for Merrill to make her a healer are gold. I didn't like Anders near constant diatribe on all things that irked him so I never took him anywhere and had heaps of healing potions on me at all times.

It got to the point that I lowered the difficulty to allow for keeping him out of the party permanently.

[UnderlAlDyingSun]

M25105 wrote...

iiReaperZz wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Please make sure you have at least two different companions you can pick with healing abilities, nothing sucked more than having to take that whining murderer Anders with me all the time cause he was the healer.

Seriously, it was almost as bad as the zones being reused.

WOW, OP needs,

A gut check, a history book, a psych lecture, a nap, some milk and cookies, a bedtime story, another gut check, a course in critical and independent thinking, to spend a summer in a third world country, a FINAL gut check, and one part multivariable calc / Physical Chemistry to humble him again.

You shouldn't need to spam health potions. You're either a terrible mage, a terrible warrior, or you just need a lower than easy difficulty setting.

COME AT ME BRO! Pro Anders Group. Peace

No wonder you're trying so hard, you support a failure.

You can thank him for Dragon Age 3.

I only try hard in Gears of War Judgement. My shotgun has a comic book camo though, pretty cool. Huh?

Cooldown on health potions is fine. They were probably just too lazy to change the coding from mass effect 2.

[Zelto]

Realmzmaster wrote...
If you have a balanced party there is no reason for everyone to know the lockpick skill. The only reason the 3rd edition rules allowed every class to pick a lock is for people who did not want to include a rogue in the party. If you choose to not use a balanced party then that is the penalty you should encounter. If you already have a thief in your party you do not have to go back and get one.

Yes, first aid is a skill in D & D, but magical healing in D & D is divine and the healing is instant. The cleric, druid, paladin or ranger has to pray for their spells. You are being healed by the power of their god. No hospital or any other stay required.

The first aid skill in D & D (and games based on the system)  is used to stablize a companion whose hit points have dropped below zero. The reason why first aid is important in D & D is that the companion can die. In the DA universe the companion reaches zero and falls unconcious. Nothing else will happen. After combat the companion will be back up and good as new.
The D & D system requires the companion to rest, drink a heal potion or have a heal spell cast upon him/her.

Warriors and mages should be able to open chests and doors with brute force, potentailly damaging the items inside making them useless(possible introduce a reduced xp as well) exactly like KOTOR 2. That way if you dislike rogues or even the companion you can just not take them. It is rediculus I have a warrior with a huge sword or a mage with mass destruction abilities unable to open a dam box. The inclusion of rogue only lockpicking simply appears to be there to make rogues essensial to gameplay. Personally I think they should be make essensial through combat mechanics not non-combat utility.

As for healing, no only mages should heal but I agree that all mages should have the ability too. After all surely that is one of the first things any mage would learn... Also have no problem with a significantly reduced CD on potions, but could potentially introduce diminishing returns or simply limit the number available or increase the cost to make then non-trivial.

[SunburnedPenguin]

I'm just finishing up my final pro-mage playthrough with all the choices I want to carry over (assuming they will), then will be doing an anti-mage play through, a side I have played but not complete yet, and wont be having any mages accompany me on quests unless they are locked in. So I have both options as save games.

My point is, this thread is very handy, thanks for all the pointers!

Modifié par SunburnedPenguin, 19 mai 2013 - 12:59 .

[Tinxa]

I like the classes having abilities only that class has BUT every character of that class should have the option of picking them up. All mages should have access to at least basic healing and all rogues should be at least decent in lockpicking when they join the party.

I support the decision that only rogues can lockpick. Once mages have "unlock spell" and warriors "bash" then what's the point of having locked containers in the first place. Sure, you can have the possibility of damaging objects inside but "supercool armour" will never get broken, only the junk that you don't care about anyway, will.

If you have an unbalanced party with all warriors then it makes sense none of them can heal and open locks but it's silly when only ONE companion can heal or pick locks if there are 2 possible rogue companions and 2 mage companions. Maybe it's your second playthrough and you want to have Zevran in your party instead of Leliana or Merril instead of Anders, why should you be penalised with more tedious gameplay for trying out a different companion of the same class.

[Get Magna Carter]

I "had to" knife Anders .. I couldn't tolerate what he had done
It was a struggle but I just managed to make it to the docks...(the final approach to the docks without a healer felt like one of the toughest fights in the game). Fortunately, Bethany rejoined me before the final battle or I might have never completed the game

[ashesandwine]

Oh god, I hate Anders.