152 réponses à ce sujet

[kww75]

If I have to deal with a single whiny healer, regardless of whether there is other options or not, I would simply refuse to buy the game. Anders pissed me off that much in DA2!

[Commander Kurt]

ArcaneJTM wrote...

Those things cost money you know.  I ain't gonna waste good coin that I can spend on a shiny new pair of boots just to revive your horribly mangled butt.

Besides, as long as the dragon is busy eating you, it's not busy eating me, meaning I'm free to keep poking it with a stick. 

So poke it faster. Wait, that didn't sound right. Poke it harder..? Hmm, no. You know what I mean.

[R0vena]

Yes, it is possible to play with non mage Hawke and without Anders even on Nightmare, I did it myself, but it is much more headache. Any other companions could be replaced without much problem for party battle performance. Don't like Fenris - take Avelin, dislike Varric - take Isabela or Sebastian and vice versa. But try to play a group with Anders or without him - and you really feel the difference.
The perfect alternative to Anders would be Bethany, but unfortunately she is not available for majority of the game. If you could have her in the party all the time it would be ideal.

Modifié par R0vena, 22 mai 2013 - 12:15 .

[Newschmoo]

I did kill Anders once, just to see the implications. I have to admit that I found it difficult to complete the game without him. I had to go back to a previous save (plus I had a change of heart as I didn't want Hawke to end up on his own). The best alternative is to play a Mage Hawke, but even he/she doesn't have access to the vengeance tree. I just keep him alive (I generally go pro-mage anyway).

[K_Tabris]

I am finally doing a play through where Anders is not left in Darktown for most of the time, and I have to say, using a mage/healer is insanely useful, especially given the potion cool down times, ugh. I guess the best option would be to open up all the abilities to all the companions as it was in DA:O. Morrigan says she is no healer, but a mage can learn, so why not make Morrigan learn and become more useful. Same could be applied to Merrill and whoever is in DA:I.

If we get Rhys as a companion, I believe he knew healing spells. Good enough for me.

[Lulupab]

Almost 90% of people don't know how broken is Anders Vengeance tree in matter of DPS. It literally removes the bonus health enemies have in nightmare provided you have some degree of RPG skill. Healing is not the only thing he is good at.

Modifié par Rassler, 23 mai 2013 - 05:06 .

[Tinxa]

Bleachrude wrote...

Tinxa wrote...

I'm against all classes having healing. What's the point of having classes at all once every class can do everything and it's just renamed, instead of "heal" spell, a rogue has "first aid" ability and instead of "lockpicking" warrior has "bash".

I think some skills should be kept in certain class BUT all characters in that class should have access to it. Something as basic as healing only being available to one companion is too restricting. And no, saying "DA2 is so easy you don't need a healer" is no excuse. I want a healer and I need a healer, I just want to see what happens if I have Merrill along for once without having my other characters die repeatedly until Merril can at least cast a decent fireball so I can kill things before they hurt me.

If a character has some special story that gives him unique abilities, like Fenris and his tatoos and Anders having more powerful mass healing and ressurect spells that is enough to make each character unique. But basic healing is too important in combat for just one mage companion to have it.

Wait..what?

Aren't you contradicting yourself? How is that you're arguing that it is wrong for all classes to have access to a skill but then argue that Merill have access to healing?

Ummm because Merrill and Anders are the same class. They're both mages. All mages should be able to heal that's what I'm saying.

[deuce985]

TheWayofPie wrote...

 The thing is, if you play your cards right you never need a healer in Dragon Age 2 so not using Anders is completely fine. In fact, Haste and Heroic Aura are much more useful than his healing could ever be. Double hasting and healing with Mage!Hawke/Bethany and Anders is crazy good and yet you don't need any of that to beat the game. The only time you probably do is that ridiculous Qunari rally misson where 100s of Fanactics come from every concievable angle. Screw that battle.

Wish Merill could use those OP spells, but at least you could turn her into a blood mage tank of death to compensate.

This is not remotely true unless you're speaking of the weakest difficulty setting. Because defininitely not possible on nightmare where you beat on bosses for an hour.

[Zelto]

deuce985 wrote...

This is not remotely true unless you're speaking of the weakest difficulty setting. Because defininitely not possible on nightmare where you beat on bosses for an hour.

I believe he is sayng that with the optimal builds with each character and the careful selection of companions for each part of the game, combined with timed potion use, it is possible, which I believe is most likely true, after all several people on this thread have stated that fact.

That does not mean that anyone will be able to do it without working out the optimal builds, class/companion combos etc. Well that is unless you play a mage Hawke, in which case it all becomes totally redundent, since Hawke will be able to heal as well or better than Anders due to spirit healing.

[Urazz]

M25105 wrote...

Please make sure you have at least two different companions you can pick with healing abilities, nothing sucked more than having to take that whining murderer Anders with me all the time cause he was the healer.

Seriously, it was almost as bad as the zones being reused.

That's why it's best to play on PC and then mod the game.  It really helped to at least be able to  mod Merril with at least the basic single target heal spell.

[franciscoamell]

I'd love it if I could take three mages with me throughout the whole game even playing as a mage. A four mage party has been a wish of mine for a long time but I haven't been able to make it true yet.

[K_Tabris]

franciscoamell wrote...

I'd love it if I could take three mages with me throughout the whole game even playing as a mage. A four mage party has been a wish of mine for a long time but I haven't been able to make it true yet.

People solo this game with mages, so why not?

[esper]

You can easily completely nightmare without Anders. Just be sure to have plenty of Mythral's favor and restoration potions. Also the once that automatically revives the character (don't remember the name) is usefull as a back up, even if its cool down is so long that you will likely just get to use 1 per character per battle.

I don't really think you need an optimal build, just not a stupid build.

That said it was kinda weird Merill couldn't heal since she in her short story did have access to creation tree.

[Commander Kurt]

esper wrote...

You can easily completely nightmare without Anders. Just be sure to have plenty of Mythral's favor and restoration potions. Also the once that automatically revives the character (don't remember the name) is usefull as a back up, even if its cool down is so long that you will likely just get to use 1 per character per battle.

I don't really think you need an optimal build, just not a stupid build.

That said it was kinda weird Merill couldn't heal since she in her short story did have access to creation tree.

Life ward. I also used grenades a fair deal on that playthrough, immensly helpful.

For me it wasn't easy, but I'm no pro either..

[Knight of Dane]

esper wrote...

You can easily completely nightmare without Anders. Just be sure to have plenty of Mythral's favor and restoration potions. Also the once that automatically revives the character (don't remember the name) is usefull as a back up, even if its cool down is so long that you will likely just get to use 1 per character per battle.

I don't really think you need an optimal build, just not a stupid build.

That said it was kinda weird Merill couldn't heal since she in her short story did have access to creation tree.

Yeah, that's what I do too. Also the most vital is positioning. Tactics go to hell when your rogue or mage is swarmed by ninja enemies.

[esper]

Commander Kurt wrote...

esper wrote...

You can easily completely nightmare without Anders. Just be sure to have plenty of Mythral's favor and restoration potions. Also the once that automatically revives the character (don't remember the name) is usefull as a back up, even if its cool down is so long that you will likely just get to use 1 per character per battle.

I don't really think you need an optimal build, just not a stupid build.

That said it was kinda weird Merill couldn't heal since she in her short story did have access to creation tree.

Life ward. I also used grenades a fair deal on that playthrough, immensly helpful.

For me it wasn't easy, but I'm no pro either..

Ahh... Yes, Life ward was their name. They were really helpfull if you either did not have Anders on healing or didn't have him in the party at all.

For my part I liked that the party was specialized and I also liked that the healer wasn't forced onto a goody-goody role and I hope the healer next time again isn't completely white and 'holier than thou'. I think it is fine that the healers finally are getting personalities beyond 'I am so nice and a white mage', not to mentioned are allowed to do actions of their own. Of course personalities/actions are going to grate on some people nerves.

I also think it is fine that there is only one. You really don't need them in the team anyway, you just need a different strategety.

[Commander Kurt]

Zelto wrote...

I believe he is sayng that with the optimal builds with each character and the careful selection of companions for each part of the game, combined with timed potion use, it is possible, which I believe is most likely true, after all several people on this thread have stated that fact.

That does not mean that anyone will be able to do it without working out the optimal builds, class/companion combos etc. Well that is unless you play a mage Hawke, in which case it all becomes totally redundent, since Hawke will be able to heal as well or better than Anders due to spirit healing.

Well, I for one was struggling on nightmare without Anders. On the other hand, if I didn't want to struggle I probably wouldn't play the game on nightmare.

Damn, I love this thread. Makes me feel like a bonafide badass everytime I enter..

[Heidenreich]

This argument is silly. Even on Nightmare you do not need Anders with you. It's called using Tactics and pausing. Micromanaging, which you have to do on Nightmare regardless of who's in your party ;p Obviously it's more challenging, but isn't that the point? If you dislike the challenge then put it on casual and EXPLODE your way through the game ;x

Not all mages can heal. It's not a terrible thing to consider. healing spells require a stronger link to the fade (AS PER THE DESCRIPTION FOR THE HEALING TREE). Some mages don't have that. Just like Magic in Thedas isn't all powerful and the resurrection spell is called REVIVE for this very reason. Because they can't bring people back from the dead, no matter how powerful they are. There are limitations to magic. They can raise the dead (which isn't resurrection, they are creating zombies by forcing demons into dead bodies) but they can not bring LIFE to someone who has passed.

Now, less grouching ;p

[Zelto]

Heidenreich wrote...

This argument is silly. Even on Nightmare you do not need Anders with you. It's called using Tactics and pausing. Micromanaging, which you have to do on Nightmare regardless of who's in your party ;p Obviously it's more challenging, but isn't that the point? If you dislike the challenge then put it on casual and EXPLODE your way through the game ;x

Not all mages can heal. It's not a terrible thing to consider. healing spells require a stronger link to the fade (AS PER THE DESCRIPTION FOR THE HEALING TREE). Some mages don't have that. Just like Magic in Thedas isn't all powerful and the resurrection spell is called REVIVE for this very reason. Because they can't bring people back from the dead, no matter how powerful they are. There are limitations to magic. They can raise the dead (which isn't resurrection, they are creating zombies by forcing demons into dead bodies) but they can not bring LIFE to someone who has passed.

Now, less grouching ;p

I don't think you can really use the conection to the fade argument. Each and every mage you play/have as companion in the game is significantly stronger than the average mage, so logically their connection to the fade must be pretty strong, so there is no really reason they can't heal. After all Merial can do things hardly no other mage can.

[Ridwan]

Heidenreich wrote...

This argument is silly. Even on Nightmare you do not need Anders with you. It's called using Tactics and pausing. Micromanaging, which you have to do on Nightmare regardless of who's in your party ;p Obviously it's more challenging, but isn't that the point? If you dislike the challenge then put it on casual and EXPLODE your way through the game ;x

Not all mages can heal. It's not a terrible thing to consider. healing spells require a stronger link to the fade (AS PER THE DESCRIPTION FOR THE HEALING TREE). Some mages don't have that. Just like Magic in Thedas isn't all powerful and the resurrection spell is called REVIVE for this very reason. Because they can't bring people back from the dead, no matter how powerful they are. There are limitations to magic. They can raise the dead (which isn't resurrection, they are creating zombies by forcing demons into dead bodies) but they can not bring LIFE to someone who has passed.

Now, less grouching ;p

Lol, your very first sentence you basically admit the difference Anders make and then call the argument silly. DA:O had two mages that could, DA2 had one. At least Wynne and Morrigan had their own charm, especially a Wynne Zevran combo, but Anders is just so much of a downer and a whiner he kills the party mood.

[Lulupab]

M25105 wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

This argument is silly. Even on Nightmare you do not need Anders with you. It's called using Tactics and pausing. Micromanaging, which you have to do on Nightmare regardless of who's in your party ;p Obviously it's more challenging, but isn't that the point? If you dislike the challenge then put it on casual and EXPLODE your way through the game ;x

Not all mages can heal. It's not a terrible thing to consider. healing spells require a stronger link to the fade (AS PER THE DESCRIPTION FOR THE HEALING TREE). Some mages don't have that. Just like Magic in Thedas isn't all powerful and the resurrection spell is called REVIVE for this very reason. Because they can't bring people back from the dead, no matter how powerful they are. There are limitations to magic. They can raise the dead (which isn't resurrection, they are creating zombies by forcing demons into dead bodies) but they can not bring LIFE to someone who has passed.

Now, less grouching ;p

Lol, your very first sentence you basically admit the difference Anders make and then call the argument silly. DA:O had two mages that could, DA2 had one. At least Wynne and Morrigan had their own charm, especially a Wynne Zevran combo, but Anders is just so much of a downer and a whiner he kills the party mood.

You consider Anders Whiner and mood killer becuase you are probably pro templar. We pro mages consider Fenris as such. But we do have the advnatage of never taking Fenris with us though Sevres you right for hating mages.

[Ridwan]

Rassler wrote...

M25105 wrote...

Heidenreich wrote...

This argument is silly. Even on Nightmare you do not need Anders with you. It's called using Tactics and pausing. Micromanaging, which you have to do on Nightmare regardless of who's in your party ;p Obviously it's more challenging, but isn't that the point? If you dislike the challenge then put it on casual and EXPLODE your way through the game ;x

Not all mages can heal. It's not a terrible thing to consider. healing spells require a stronger link to the fade (AS PER THE DESCRIPTION FOR THE HEALING TREE). Some mages don't have that. Just like Magic in Thedas isn't all powerful and the resurrection spell is called REVIVE for this very reason. Because they can't bring people back from the dead, no matter how powerful they are. There are limitations to magic. They can raise the dead (which isn't resurrection, they are creating zombies by forcing demons into dead bodies) but they can not bring LIFE to someone who has passed.

Now, less grouching ;p

Lol, your very first sentence you basically admit the difference Anders make and then call the argument silly. DA:O had two mages that could, DA2 had one. At least Wynne and Morrigan had their own charm, especially a Wynne Zevran combo, but Anders is just so much of a downer and a whiner he kills the party mood.

You consider Anders Whiner and mood killer becuase you are probably pro templar. We pro mages consider Fenris as such. But we do have the advnatage of never taking Fenris with us though Sevres you right for hating mages.

Who says I liked Fenris? He was stuck in his little mansion most of the time too.

[LogicGunn]

A solution to this would be to be able to shape your companion's abilities entirely yourself, but that would take away from their personalities and backstory. You can sort out your characters tactics to self heal as a primary tactic, thus negating the need for a healing mage if you keep your potion stocks up.

[Fishy]

ArcaneJTM wrote...

I completely agree with the OP.  Especially the part about being forced to take Anders if I needed a healer.  Of the two mage companions, I much prefered having Merrill in the party.

Now, that doesn't mean all mages in the game have to have access to a full healing tree.  But it would be nice if they at least had access to the basic Heal spell.

BoBear wrote...

Just take away potion cool downs. It's not an ability, it's a potion. It makes no sense to make the characters wait x amount of time to drink something.

I think having to ask the darkspawn for a time out mid-battle because you gotta pee after drinking a ton of healing potions at once might be a good reason for the cooldown. 

Besides, you ever tried downing six bottles of water in under a minute? It ain't easy. 

Might be a good idea. If you spam too much potion in a short amount of time. The  charatcer using them become intoxicated and lose half his health for a amount of time.. Let's say if you spam 5 BIG Health potion in a row  under 10 sec. You lose half your health for the next 20 seconds and if you keep spamming them .. You keep losing half the Hp of your HP .. So you end up spamming like a mad men and lose all of your potion or you just end up being 1 shotted since all your hp was halved.

So player would be much more prudent than just spamming potion during tough and long battle.

Modifié par Suprez30, 25 mai 2013 - 05:42 .

[Ianamus]

Rassler wrote...

You consider Anders Whiner and mood killer becuase you are probably pro templar. We pro mages consider Fenris as such. But we do have the advnatage of never taking Fenris with us though Sevres you right for hating mages.

It has little to do with whether you support mages or not. Having a character who revolves almost entirely around one opinion and is constantly going on about it even when It's not relevant  is what it's about. I personally found Anders intolerable and Fenris only slightly less annoying, Because he occasionally talked about Tevinter and slavery as well as mages. 

I think the following quote covers pretty much every dialogue with Anders in the game, whether the subject matter is magic, Qunari, politics, Aveline's love life or potatoes:

"Mages mages templars templars templars templars templars mages mages templars!"

Modifié par EJ107, 25 mai 2013 - 06:25 .