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You know what ME1's problem was? It was too unfocused, tried to do too many things at once and tripped.


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#51
KingZayd

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andy69156915 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Me1 was a unique game, its essentially an rpg with shooter elements (think about that classification, there is no other game with that sort of game play).


Yeah there is, I mentioned 2 such games in my first post. Valkyria Chronicles and Resonance of Fate are both of the classification, VC more so then the other. Watch some gameplay vids-





quote from first post-

"Or like Valkyria Chronicles gameplay set in the ME universe, except characters wouldn't die if left untreated and the movement stamina was removed. Or like Resonance of Fate with less insane anime acrobatics and gun-fu. I assume those because DA:O is a Bioware game and Bioware likesto use similar gameplay styles if they can help it, and the other 2 are RPGs where everyone uses guns and are clearly RPGs with shooter elements instead of the other way around."


I'd class Deus Ex as an fps-rpg hybrid.

Modifié par KingZayd, 19 mai 2013 - 12:31 .


#52
Mcfly616

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I disagree. ME1 is still the best game of the trilogy imo

#53
Nightdragon8

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KingZayd wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Me1 was a unique game, its essentially an rpg with shooter elements (think about that classification, there is no other game with that sort of game play).


Yeah there is, I mentioned 2 such games in my first post. Valkyria Chronicles and Resonance of Fate are both of the classification, VC more so then the other. Watch some gameplay vids-





quote from first post-

"Or like Valkyria Chronicles gameplay set in the ME universe, except characters wouldn't die if left untreated and the movement stamina was removed. Or like Resonance of Fate with less insane anime acrobatics and gun-fu. I assume those because DA:O is a Bioware game and Bioware likesto use similar gameplay styles if they can help it, and the other 2 are RPGs where everyone uses guns and are clearly RPGs with shooter elements instead of the other way around."


I'd class Deus Ex as an fps-rpg hybrid.


with HR having I think the most fail bosses ever....

on topic

honestly ME wasn't that bad of a shooter, granted I've played my share of fail shooters...  So while ME combat was Clunky I wouldn't have called it bad. It wasn't designed to be the most bestest, TPS in the world. It combined TPS with RPG. And it did so in the classic RPG way of the point system.

Now the problem is that when we all use the term RPG are we talking about story? or the point system type combat that every RPG uses. If we are talking about the latter then I agree I'm glad they went more shooter than "RPG".  or point damage system. I'm fine with it, it smoothed out combat to where ME2&3 where progressivly better (tho I still liked no thermal clips or different cool downs for the different powers, and only getting a serious pet pev over sticking to walls I dont want to) 

So I honestly don't think there are too many people who dislike that change of the game.

What the issue everyone else has is.... less "open-world" and alot of choices honestly didn't matter all that much.

and funny enough I didn't have an issue with the same maps in ME, mainly because honestly the buildings would have been mass produced, its a concept thats floating around right now. 'Pre-fab' housing. And if we suddenly get spaceflight and start colonising other planets, you bet your butt we will go 'pre-fab' cause it will be one less thing you have to worry about.

Now yes I do agree there could have been 3 tile sets for the pre-fabs. But if anything who is to say that Humans can't produce the lowest cost pre-fab in the universe? And if your a merc group on a budget I don't think anyone would care if it was 'Human' or 'Asari' made.   Yes yes, its not in Lore so i can't say they where the cheapest. In reality, ME1 was a game that didn't put a whole lot of money in to make. Considering the risk of failure was higher than a sequal would have been. And a good place to cut the budget would be the number of tilesets that you have.

and they used I think 4 different tile sets for the different planets... ice, Red, lava, grey(moon)  and whats funny is that the earth texure they used is mirrored ^_^

So while I agree that going more shooter with combat was the better choice, doesn't mean that they "have to cut" story in a RPG.

#54
GimmeDaGun

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I'm pretty biased when it come to ME1 (my favorite of the 3, the second being ME3 and third ME2). It has such a great atmosphere and dark, hard sci-fi-ish feel with lots of references to old sci-fi novels, films and shows. Also it was the first time I had the chance to immerse myself in this great and familiar universe. The main plot is pretty simple and generic, but the lore which is built around it is outstanding.

I understand where the OP is coming from. The game, although ambitious was a low budget new IP with lots of short-comings (especially when it comes to gameplay mechanics), but the dialogue system, the c&c and the overall wibe made up for all of it, even for the very minimalist plot (chase and hunt down the bad guy who hates humanity and means a great threat to all, while discovering a dark secret, a great ancient menace which happens to be connected to the aforementioned bad guy).

So I kind of agree with you OP, but still it is my favorite of the whole trilogy.

#55
The Heretic of Time

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Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3

#56
KingZayd

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Nightdragon8 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

andy69156915 wrote...

FlamingBoy wrote...

Me1 was a unique game, its essentially an rpg with shooter elements (think about that classification, there is no other game with that sort of game play).


Yeah there is, I mentioned 2 such games in my first post. Valkyria Chronicles and Resonance of Fate are both of the classification, VC more so then the other. Watch some gameplay vids-





quote from first post-

"Or like Valkyria Chronicles gameplay set in the ME universe, except characters wouldn't die if left untreated and the movement stamina was removed. Or like Resonance of Fate with less insane anime acrobatics and gun-fu. I assume those because DA:O is a Bioware game and Bioware likesto use similar gameplay styles if they can help it, and the other 2 are RPGs where everyone uses guns and are clearly RPGs with shooter elements instead of the other way around."


I'd class Deus Ex as an fps-rpg hybrid.


with HR having I think the most fail bosses ever....


Yeah. I've heard about that. Haven't played it yet. Was referring to the awesome original.

#57
SpamBot2000

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Apparently they remade the bosses for the Wii U version of Human Revolution. Those 4 people who have one will get a great game.

#58
Mathias

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Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

#59
Ledgend1221

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Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

Well when 60% of your game is combat, the shooting damn well better be good.
It's an Action RPG for a reason.

That's why ME2 is my favorite, it didn't sacrafice one aspect too much for the other. Good balance all around.

#60
Reorte

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Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

I think that there may be some nostalgia in there. I get that feeling from ME2, since that was my introduction to Mass Effect. If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.

Modifié par Reorte, 19 mai 2013 - 03:29 .


#61
The Night Mammoth

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Ledgend1221 wrote...

That's why ME2 is my favorite, it didn't sacrafice one aspect too much for the other. Good balance all around.


That's true, it was pretty consistent. 

Consistently mediocre. 

#62
Guest_simfamUP_*

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The Night Mammoth wrote...

Ledgend1221 wrote...

That's why ME2 is my favorite, it didn't sacrafice one aspect too much for the other. Good balance all around.


That's true, it was pretty consistent. 

Consistently mediocre. 


I'll agree that the plot was irrelevant to the big-picture, it's an amazing side-quest, though. Too bad it didn't end with a way to beat the Repaers, that would have elevated its status amongst the general public.

Still my favourite in the series though!

#63
AresKeith

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I loved ME2 for what it is, a stand-alone sequal

If Bioware actually planned out the trilogy then ME2's plot would've tied in better

#64
Mathias

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Reorte wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

I think that there may be some nostalgia in there. I get that feeling from ME2, since that was my introduction to Mass Effect. If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.


Goddamnit, why do people who love ME1 the most always get the nostalgia stamp on them? I have played all three games thoroughly and ME1 is still my favorite experience. It has nothing to do with rose colored goggles.

#65
Seboist

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Reorte wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

I think that there may be some nostalgia in there. I get that feeling from ME2, since that was my introduction to Mass Effect. If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.


What better character interaction in 2? Most squadmates doesn't even acknowledge each other's existence.

ME3 has better character interaction than that and 1.

#66
Ledgend1221

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Seboist wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

I think that there may be some nostalgia in there. I get that feeling from ME2, since that was my introduction to Mass Effect. If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.


What better character interaction in 2? Most squadmates doesn't even acknowledge each other's existence.

ME3 has better character interaction than that and 1.

Not NPC->NPC, Player->NPC.

#67
Auld Wulf

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andy69156915 wrote...

Yeah, I am officially ignoring those people as of my last post. They're not worth responding to if they don't want to say anything real or without being a dick about it. Frankly, if they don't care then they should just skip the thread and not come in and act like a jerk. But that would take actual maturity, so of course that's far too much to expect from people on this board. I should have seen it coming.

And that's the majority of the BSN as I've often described it in the past. Don't worry, I empathise. There are just far too many anti-intellectual thugs around here, and they tend to like to gang up and attack the person rather than respond to any points we have intelligently. Other than them, you have the demagogues who like rallying the peanut gallery with appeals to emotion and prejudices. It's funny, because the people who tend to not do this are the ones that agree with us, which makes a good debate a rare beast indeed. And for what it's worth, I also think that ME1 spread itself too thin and didn't really accomplish anything. ME1 is BioWare's Oblivion, plain and simple. It just wasn't a great game, it was an unfocused mess that didn't know what it wanted to be and was going far too much for mainstream appeal.

After ME1, Mass Effect started to figure out what it wanted to be and the writers and designers began to get behind that, 2 was a step in the right direction, and 3 was the ultimate culmination of it. The gameplay, the story, the personality of it all came together with a laser focus in ME3. They dropped the elements that just weren't relevant and only served to dilute the process, and delivered a genuinely enjoyable experience. They nailed down the gameplay so well that even the multiplayer is enjoyable, as it is. I feel that with ME1 they were trying to be CoD in space meets Dragon Age, and that... didn't work. ME2 had that problem to a lesser degree, with powers not having their own personality and weaponds not being balanced. In ME3 they figured that problem out.

Also, in ME1 and ME2, they had a bunch of writers working on the same characters. Too many cooks spoil the broth. In ME3, they had certain writers overlooking certain characters and plot points, they finally seemed to understand that having multiple writers write one character leads to inconsistencies in both plot and personality. HYR 2.0 brought up this problem in a thread about Legion, which was caused by Legion having more than one writer. When you're doing an RPG, it's best not to have the writers bounce around, but to have each writer assigned to a certain task or group of tasks, and to never have those tasks overlap with another writer.

That's why the representations of Legion, Mordin, and Wrex were so good in ME3. And I hope they keep this approach for future games, because character writing has always been a huge problem for BioWare -- they've never really done it well. Even Lionhead have been better at character writing than them in the past. This is an area where they really needed to pull up their socks, to cure their long-running issue with unfocused, overly diversified, wooden characters. In ME3, it was possible to relate to most of the characters, due to this, because each character was the child of their respective writer. And they were written with clear motives in mind.

And then there's the Mako and the Hammerhead. Whilst they were fun, they drew development time away from other things -- that development time could have been spent on flushing out missions with more visually interesting levels. That's another area where I think ME1 and ME2 suffered -- the on foot levels were just dull. Not bad, per se, but just visually uninteresting. Can you think of a single area in Mass Effect 1 or 2 which had singularly brilliant aesthetics? I can think of numerous areas in ME3 which impressed me, but ME1 and 2 just seemed to be spread too thin, too much stuff, not enough good stuff. Sometimes less is more. I'd rather have fewer genuinely memorable environments than more environments which are bland.

Now, I know some people have hated BioWare for this and think the opposite. I've heard before that some have said that they "spent too much time working on skyboxes and pretty little corners," when they could have been working on side missions. But I disagree -- to the contrary, I think that if they'd spent too much time adding a ridiculous amount of side missions, then we'd end up with ME2 again, where the levels feel unfocused and they don't really represent what they're supposed to be. Here's an example: Compare the Geth dreadnaughts in ME2 and ME3. The ME2 dreadnaught felt like an organic base (sans windows), weirdly well lit and Citadel-like, the ME3 one actually felt correct and fixed these issues.

Ultimately, yes, ME3 could have been even better (especially Priority: Earth), but I think it's an iterative process for them and they're learning what works and what doesn't. While I don't think that ME3 is a perfect game, I do think it's hands down one of the best games BioWare has ever put together, and definitely the best Mass Effect game. Sometimes you just have to stop being clouded by nostalgia to see the truth of things, but there's also that ME3 got more philosophical/symbolic than previous entries, and I don't think people took kindly to that and as such they're attacking it in any way they can just to make it look bad.

I can but shrug.

At the end of the day, though, ME3 is definitely the best we've had thus far. And I look forward to future endeavours.

#68
Reorte

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Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

I think that there may be some nostalgia in there. I get that feeling from ME2, since that was my introduction to Mass Effect. If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.


Goddamnit, why do people who love ME1 the most always get the nostalgia stamp on them? I have played all three games thoroughly and ME1 is still my favorite experience. It has nothing to do with rose colored goggles.

Why do some people always get so angry about the suggestion? I don't see what you see in ME1 but do see it in ME2, and I played ME2 first - so I don't think that it's an unreasonable assumption that the whole "feeling" part is down to it being down to being the first thing that let you experience the world. I agree that ME1 is the best entry and wish I'd played it first but the fact remains that I did not.

#69
AresKeith

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Auld Wulf wrote...

*snip


Meh I enjoyed ME1 more and ME2 a bit more

#70
andy6915

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Wulf, I honestly don't remember agreeing with you often. But here? I think we agree here. Your post seems spot on.

#71
Reorte

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Seboist wrote...

Reorte wrote...
If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.


What better character interaction in 2? Most squadmates doesn't even acknowledge each other's existence.

ME3 has better character interaction than that and 1.

Between each other, certainly but when it comes to the player though you don't really get much of a feel for the characters, and their personalities don't really stand out in ME1 (Wrex and Ashley are probably the only ones). You get to know the characters far, far better in ME2 than in ME1.

#72
Wayning_Star

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I'm figuring that if they expect plus 60 bucks for a game, they're gonna have to put more effort into them. Other wise fan expectation will reek havoc upon what fans sees and what they get.

Fans will eventually tune out hype in all orders of magnitude. That's where quality is canon?

#73
frostajulie

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"Some people on here are wearing some very rose tinted glasses when it
comes to ME1&2. Just ignore them. They're often wrong anyway." To quote Brovikk Rasputin endquote

idiots automatically assume anyone who likes a game older than 2 years old must only like it due to rose tinted glasses of nostalgia

Some games are just fun.

End of discussion.

I still playthru the trilogy because its fun, no nostalgia fully recent FUN.

ME1 is my 2nd favorite game in the trilogy. No nostalgia at all, its just fun to play.

To the OP: I apologize for inadvertently offending you This comment was not directed at you.  I have no problem offending people but I do want to offend the correct person. After I revisited the thread and saw what had happened I tried to fix it as best I could.  I can't walk into even 1 thread about ME1 without some person yelling NOSTALGIA ****ES!  It was a good game that was and is fun.

My comment was not a response to your original post and that was bad form. Sorry dude.

Modifié par frostajulie, 19 mai 2013 - 05:47 .


#74
KingZayd

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Reorte wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

I think that there may be some nostalgia in there. I get that feeling from ME2, since that was my introduction to Mass Effect. If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.


It's not just nostalgia.

I played ME1 2 years ago and ME2 last year.

Conversations with squadmates on the Normany were so much more interesting in 2. It felt as if you really got know your squad. Admittedly, with ME3 there's only 1 new squadmate, so there wasn't as much to learn about them.

Interaction just felt more rewarding in ME2

Modifié par KingZayd, 19 mai 2013 - 04:26 .


#75
Ledgend1221

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KingZayd wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Gameplay-wise:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1


But in everything else:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


Pretty much this. But what is more important in the Mass Effect franchise? The shooting or the experience?

That is why Mass Effect 1 will always win out as the best entry in the franchise. I think on a technical level ME2 was the best game overrall, but nothing gives me a serious case of the feels, like ME1 did.

I think that there may be some nostalgia in there. I get that feeling from ME2, since that was my introduction to Mass Effect. If it isn't just that then it might be the better character interaction in 2.


It's not just nostalgia.

I played ME1 2 years ago and ME2 last year.

Conversations with squadmates on the Normany were so much more interesting in 2. It felt as if you really got know your squad. Admittedly, with ME3 there's only 1 new squadmate, so there wasn't as much to learn about them.

Interaction just felt more rewarding in ME2

Talking with Legion was far more interesting then most of the ME1 cast.