348 réponses à ce sujet

[SunburnedPenguin]

Putting this here other than in DA2 forum as, well, it didn't happen in DA2 and maybe it could in Inquisition.

And it's my first post so please be kind! Been lurking for years but not posted yet.

So, blood magic happens when a mage strikes a deal with a demon, or is influenced by them in the fade. So why not just destroy the demons that inhabit the fade?

Mages can enter the fade easily enough, and non-mages it seems, so why cant the mages and templars join forces and declare war on the demons instead of eachother?

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Not powerful enough.

[SunburnedPenguin]

I dont know, Warden and Hawke + companions have killed a fair few. With an army of mages and templars could easily be done I reckon. With an incredible boss battle!

Modifié par SunburnedPenguin, 19 mai 2013 - 12:11 .

[Catroi]

Demons are the manifestations of people's emotions (totally stolen from Warhammer lore btw...) so unless you make every single being a Tranquil you wont be able to destroy the demons.

also DA2 made every single mage able to become a blood mage in the blink of an eye without need a a pact with a demon and intense training so...

[MisterJB]

Catroi wrote...

Demons are the manifestations of people's emotions (totally stolen from Warhammer lore btw...) so unless you make every single being a Tranquil you wont be able to destroy the demons.

Speculation. We don't know that for certain. If the Chantry is to be believed, spirits actually came before humans which means that while they have defined themselves by humanity's negative emotions, their existence is completely independant from the human species.
Not that I believe we can wipe out demonkind. And this, of course, brings into question their reproduction methods.

[Catroi]

wasnt there also something about demons not being able to die? when you defeat them they just disolve and it just takes some time to be corporeal again?

also we dont even know the size and population of the fade, for all we know it could be infinite in size and population

My bad about my previous statement, had forgotten about the fact that spirits were the "first children of the maker" thinggie

[Lavaeolus]

The Fade is near-infinite. The demons there, probably also so. The war would never end -- more demons would pop up, other spirits would get angry, mortal attention would be noticed, mages would suddenly be attacked in even greater force than ever before when they slept...

[Ferretinabun]

Catroi wrote...

also DA2 made every single mage able to become a blood mage in the blink of an eye without need a a pact with a demon and intense training so...

Another silly retcon. I much preferred DA:O's way of doing it.

[MisterJB]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Catroi wrote...

also DA2 made every single mage able to become a blood mage in the blink of an eye without need a a pact with a demon and intense training so...

Another silly retcon. I much preferred DA:O's way of doing it.

I see no reason why it should be a retcon. DAO extablished that it's possible to learn blood magic without dealing with a demon (Jowan). I see no reason we shouldn't believe that all blood mages we encounter ingame had been practicing it for some time.

[SunburnedPenguin]

Good points.

I wonder if instead then, the connection between the fade and the real world - the veil, could be severed completely?

[SunburnedPenguin]

MisterJB wrote...

Catroi wrote...

Demons are the manifestations of people's emotions (totally stolen from Warhammer lore btw...) so unless you make every single being a Tranquil you wont be able to destroy the demons.

Speculation. We don't know that for certain. If the Chantry is to be believed, spirits actually came before humans which means that while they have defined themselves by humanity's negative emotions, their existence is completely independant from the human species.
Not that I believe we can wipe out demonkind. And this, of course, brings into question their reproduction methods.

lol!

[Catroi]

SunburnedPenguin wrote...

Good points.

I wonder if instead then, the connection between the fade and the real world - the veil, could be severed completely?

yes it can, but you dont want that trust me <_<

(cutting someone from the fade makes them Tranquil, imagine a world where everyone is tranquil...)

Modifié par Catroi, 19 mai 2013 - 12:52 .

[SunburnedPenguin]

Catroi wrote...

SunburnedPenguin wrote...

Good points.

I wonder if instead then, the connection between the fade and the real world - the veil, could be severed completely?

yes it can, but you dont want that trust me <_<

Why not?

ETA: Quoted before you edited - of course, silly me!

Modifié par SunburnedPenguin, 19 mai 2013 - 12:53 .

[LobselVith8]

SunburnedPenguin wrote...

Putting this here other than in DA2 forum as, well, it didn't happen in DA2 and maybe it could in Inquisition.

And it's my first post so please be kind! Been lurking for years but not posted yet.

So, blood magic happens when a mage strikes a deal with a demon, or is influenced by them in the fade. So why not just destroy the demons that inhabit the fade?

That's not necessarily the case. Demons can teach a mage blood magic, but it's not the only way a mage can learn this school of magic. The WoT mentions some mages teaching their apprentices blood magic. Jowan is implied to have learned from books. The Orlesian Warden can ask the Baroness to teach him blood magic at a time she appears to simply be a mage. Some scholars believe the Arlathan elves taught the early Tevinters how to wield blood magic.

There's also the issue of non-mages not being able to naturally enter the Fade like mages can, so you couldn't have templars enter the Fade to make the attempt - unless they knew the technology the Mother used to bring The Warden and his moiety crew into the Fade, or knew a mage as powerful as the Baroness.

SunburnedPenguin wrote...

Mages can enter the fade easily enough, and non-mages it seems, so why cant the mages and templars join forces and declare war on the demons instead of eachother? 

Blood magic isn't the only issue the mages and templars have with each other; autonomy is another issue that wouldn't be resolved by the absense of blood magic.

[Jeffonl1]

LobselVith8 wrote...
Blood magic isn't the only issue the mages and templars have with each other; autonomy is another issue that wouldn't be resolved by the absense of blood magic.

I think a very long history of distrust, hate, and violence precludes collaboration between the two groups.
I too think just removing the root cause of using blood magic wouldn't solve these issues...

[Knight of Dane]

LobselVith8 wrote...

SunburnedPenguin wrote...

Putting this here other than in DA2 forum as, well, it didn't happen in DA2 and maybe it could in Inquisition.

And it's my first post so please be kind! Been lurking for years but not posted yet.

So, blood magic happens when a mage strikes a deal with a demon, or is influenced by them in the fade. So why not just destroy the demons that inhabit the fade?

That's not necessarily the case. Demons can teach a mage blood magic, but it's not the only way a mage can learn this school of magic. The WoT mentions some mages teaching their apprentices blood magic. Jowan is implied to have learned from books. The Orlesian Warden can ask the Baroness to teach him blood magic at a time she appears to simply be a mage. Some scholars believe the Arlathan elves taught the early Tevinters how to wield blood magic.

Hawke can learn Blood Magic out of no where (presumably observation(lol) or Merrill)
I think the warden can also learn it from a book in Awakening.
The Mage Warden learns blood magic when drinking dragon blood.
Morrigan seems to have learned her blood magic without spirit/demon influence.
Anders can learn blood magic from the Warden in Awakening (or from the same source as the warden)
Keran learns it from Grace who I guess learned it from Decimus who learned it from teh evul demun.
Finn knows about Blood Magic stuffz, don't think he's been chatting to demons, though knowing his statue companions he might.

There are plenty of cases of non-demonic blood magic.
Not to mention the very definition of it and wether or not the Warden ritual, Dalish writing and Templar phylactery tracking are such.

[BlueMagitek]

The solution is to turn all of Thedas into Cybermen. =D

Seriously though, Blood Magic (among other magics) can be learned from demons, but that isn't the only way to learn it, just one of the better known ways.

[Fast Jimmy]

It is not even entirely clear if "killing a demon" destroys it, even in the Fade. Demons aren't happy to be killed and would likely bargain for their "life" because it means possibly them being bumped down to the bottom of the totem pole in the demon world, where they would have to claw and work their way back up again over the course of centuries or millenia.

So if you sent a brigade of Mages into the Fade with the task of killing all demons... it isn't even clear if this would be possible. Demons approach Mages, seek them out... but Thedas doesn't know that much about the other spirits of the Fade because they avoid humans. If demons thought they were in danger, wouldn't they engage in a similar tactic of just avoiding all humans?

Not to mention sending Mages en masse to fight against demons would likely just result in more Mages being possessed. After all, if a Mage falls in combat to a demon in the Fade, the demon can take their body, allowing an Abomination to begin ripping through the Mages in the real world. Which would be a huge and dangerous risk for a possibly impossible goal (kill all demons in the Fade).

[DatOneFanboy]

 ive been trying to make a deal whit a demon everytime i encountered one, Since origins, 

I even sold Arls Boy For sex whit a desire demon 

[Last Thing You Never See]

Ignoring all the problems inherent in this. It would have to be a united assault by every mage in the world of Thedas. Qunari included. EVERY mage would have to resist temptation, every demons location and their numbers would have to be found, I could spend hours listing the reasons. Its the most simple and best solution but unless there was divine intervention or some magical super weapon was developed to scour the fade of demons, then it probably wouldn't be done.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Catroi wrote...

also DA2 made every single mage able to become a blood mage in the blink of an eye without need a a pact with a demon and intense training so...

Another silly retcon. I much preferred DA:O's way of doing it.

This puzzles me.

Merril became a blood mage by making a pact with the demon on Sundermount.

Other DA2 bloodmages, was it explained how they became bloodmages?

In DAO and DA2 you became an abomination by accepting help from a demon, not necessarily a blood mage though

[Chaos Lord Malek]

Simple solution to blood mages ?




KILL THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!

Knight of Dane wrote...


Hawke can learn Blood Magic out of no where (presumably observation(lol) or Merrill)
I think the warden can also learn it from a book in Awakening.
The Mage Warden learns blood magic when drinking dragon blood.
Morrigan seems to have learned her blood magic without spirit/demon influence.
Anders can learn blood magic from the Warden in Awakening (or from the same source as the warden)
Keran learns it from Grace who I guess learned it from Decimus who learned it from teh evul demun.
Finn knows about Blood Magic stuffz, don't think he's been chatting to demons, though knowing his statue companions he might.

There are plenty of cases of non-demonic blood magic.
Not
to mention the very definition of it and wether or not the Warden
ritual, Dalish writing and Templar phylactery tracking are such.

There is no book for blood magic, you must have it from Origins.

Drinking Dragon Blood gives you Reaver specialization, not blood magic. Dragon
blood is anathem to the Blood Magic, its the opposites. You learn blood
magic, by giving Conor soul to the Desire Demoness and for that you must
be Mage yourself (Warden must be mage) - neither Morrigan nor Wyne will
acept that (they automatically refuse)

And Morrigan knows no blood magic, and doesn't use it.

Modifié par Chaos Lord Malek, 19 mai 2013 - 03:17 .

[Catroi]

I remember an interview saying that the retarded amount of blood mages/demon summoners (speciallly this one, as showed in Warden's keep, it's nearly impossible to summon and have a demon obey you) was purely gameplay mechanics, I need to try to find it again

[MisterJB]

That awkward moment when Joffrey is making sense.

[Dagr88]

You don't need a demon to become a blood mage.

It can be taught from human to human. But the thing is... most of those teachers are ether apostates (with or without demons inside them) or Tavinter magisters (unless all those magisters are also demons in disguise).

If you live somewhere in Ferelden and don't have time to cross whole continent to learn Blood magic and 10 templars are pursuing you or you're just a power hungry (stupid) bastard... Basically is a death or demon option (for the first case, for the second one it's just demon).

Modifié par Dagr88, 19 mai 2013 - 03:50 .